The meeting between Zambian Preisident Micahel Sata and US former President George Bush was reported by UK’s Telegraph. Below is the Telegraph story reproduced. To read the whole story in its entirety and the comments go to http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zambia/9381583/George-W.-Bush-berated-by-Zambias-Michael-Sata-on-Africa-trip.html
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George W. Bush berated by Zambia’s Michael Sata on Africa trip
George W. Bush, the former US president, has received a dressing down from Zambia’s Michael Sata over the colonial legacy of Western countries whom he accused of “abandoning” Africa having stripped it of its natural resources.Mr Bush arrived in the southern African country last weekend with his wife Laura to promote the work of their cervical cancer prevention foundation, and paid a courtesy visit to the president at Lusaka’s State House.
There, Mr Sata, known as King Cobra for his sharp tongue and quick temper, told the 66-year-old Texan that his charitable efforts represented “payback time for colonialists”.
Mr Sata, 75, also complained about “the young man” Mr Bush being late for their meeting, adding that were he not bringing money to Africa, he would not have waited.
When the Bushes arrived and the three sat down to tea, Mr Sata told him: “Previously there used to be four great countries: United States of America, United Kingdom, Russia and France.
“And you have all drifted away; you have abandoned Africa after taking all our raw commodities, our raw materials and built your cities “I mean, as far as you are concerned, Africa doesn’t exist. And when we have a former colonialist like you coming back to pay back what you took out of this country, we are grateful.”
[pullquote]Mr Bush reportedly interjected: “Mr President, I don’t wanna be argumentative, but America was never a colonial nation. France might have been a colonial nation, Britain might have been a colonial nation, but not the United States of America.”[/pullquote]
Mr Bush reportedly interjected: “Mr President, I don’t wanna be argumentative, but America was never a colonial nation. France might have been a colonial nation, Britain might have been a colonial nation, but not the United States of America.”
Mr Sata fired back that the Americans’ role in the slave industry made them equally culpable: “The Americans did not physically colonise us, but at the same time, the Americans still have scars of slavery,” he said.
Amid nervous laughter from their assembled entourages, Mr Bush replied: “No question about it.”
It is not the first time Mr Sata has bemoaned the waning role of the West in Africa. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph earlier this year, he said he was keen for his country’s former colonial master Britain to increase its influence to counterbalance a now heavy Chinese presence against which he campaigned so fiercely in previous elections. “Better the devil you know than one you don’t,” he added.
The Bushes were 15 minutes late to State House, having driven 90 miles from the northern city of Kabwe, where they had opened a health clinic refurbished with their money which will offer cervical and breast cancer screening to locals.
As he awaited Mr Bush’s arrival, Mr Sata complained to Priscilla Hernandez, the United States public affairs officer, that he did not like being kept waiting.
“Bush is former president; he is not the current president of the United States so I cannot be waiting for him,” he said.
“The young man is lucky that he is the first American leader to have brought money to Africa through his Millennium Challenge Account; that’s why I’m standing here. Otherwise if it was somebody else, I would have handed him over to one of my ministers to meet him.”
[pullquote]“The young man is lucky that he is the first American leader to have brought money to Africa through his Millennium Challenge Account; that’s why I’m standing here. Otherwise if it was somebody else, I would have handed him over to one of my ministers to meet him.”[/pullquote]
Mr Sata’s outburst is being viewed in some quarters as an embarrassing diplomatic incident.
But George Chellah, Mr Sata’s spokesman, said the two men were “old friends” and the entire encounter had been “light-hearted”.
“This talk of a diplomatic incident is invented by people bent on creating a storm in a teacup,” he said.
A diplomatic source said the scene had been “awkward, but not really an incident”. “You never know what to expect from Michael Sata,” the source said.
[Source: The Daily Telegraph ( www.telegraph.co.uk)
:0 *slapping hand across my forehead * no comment but then again wait..this is a comment lol
An id.iot for a president!
RB MUST LEARN TO HAVE RESPECT FOR HEAD OF STATE.
@GK
This is not about RB but Sata’s continuous embarrassing behaviour and failures.
Bashi Chilufya DObo na mashoko.
Sata for Africa!
I was told that when you are late you are being disrespectfull. So the Head of state took offence at Bush being late! We are not ass kissers like some former presidents that we know.
Does President Sata ever heard of cultural shock? That is what he did to George Bush when he passed his irresponsible comment in the presence of George Bush
Surely what Sata should have done was to to learn about George Bush’s American culture background regarding making jokes before passing RUDE jokes he claimed he was having a light moment!
Sata missed an opportunity now he will go in the diplomatic circles and history like the way Idi Amin used to react to President and other governments as an ERRATIC person!
Sata needs to know that he made President George Bush to have a cultural shock of his erratic behavior because Bush does not know Sata on a personal level so Sata should not have passed the irresponsible comment he claims its Light Moment
It was a “light hearted” conversation NOT a light moment. How do you know that President Sata does NOT have a personal relationship with Bush?
Silu no.1 these are long term effects of Dobo . . . .
Wher r the advisors to man kanshi?
For what? When he was just saying the truth. Who is Bush? It’s time for the west to payback.
MR SATA WAS VERY BRAVE TO SAY WHAT HAD SAID TO BUSH BECAUSE N0 OTHER AFRICAN LEADERS WOULD HAVE HAD THE GUTS TO TELL OFF BUSH.. MR PRESIDENTMY HATS OF TO YOU AND I SALUTE YOU FOR BEING A REAL (MAMUNA)MAN
ibange,ulubangula,ashishi,marij…ne cipongwe,iciwowo,icasa kanwa,umopo,insoso mbi na fimbi ifyashala
Yaba amatole iye.
Our president, Mr Sata is really an embarrassment,it should be lack of education which is troubling him most.
Why do you say he lacks an education when he has two degrees?
Bakalamba Even FTJ had a Masters degree but people did not recognise him. Bwezani has a doctorate degree confered upon by Rusangu University but he does not want it. Most of you Africans you want to see some one from university of Zambia as educated or London University as educated and not elsewhere wake up.
@ PF MUTALE you are an embarrassment yourself
This country is on auto pilot; for sure voters have done damage to this country and this will be felt many many many years to come. By the end of PF term people will be crying for RB to come back like his was angel himself. 90 days came to pass; so will the four years full of hardship and embaressment come to pass. Some people know how to decampaign themselves.
RB ???? Iwe are u normal. RB has been the worst president of Zambia and will forever be the shortest reigning presido of Zambia. RB chapwa.
I stop reading this because of dander heads like you No. 12 only you can cry for thieving Bwezani. PF will go along way. SATA calls a spade a spade.
This copy and paste has been slightly edited and does not include the US embassy officials comment that what happened was ackward but in no way a diplomatic incident
Just read the story in DT , LT has not done any editing, it is as reported
Shame and the former president came to do noble work per zed as africans we never learn
# 5 Shaka OZ – Maybe it was Bush who should have learnt about the African Culture and the president of the country he was meeting. Comparing Sata to Idi Amin is just pure misrepresentation of history. If that foullish RB did not apologise, this could have just gone as a joke. Just surf on Boris Johnson, the mayor of London what he said when he was recently in the US, you would think Sata was jst having a laugh. How can the former president apologise on behalf of the nation without confering with the president himself is beyond belief.
He is not interested with diplomancy – his kingdom doest not allow that but all times attacking sometimes slaps himself on face to clear his hurt, thinking he was Bush – please buy more millors in your office for identity!!!!!!!!!!! in short he is Bush himself
Bush’s office is actually surprised this has brought in attention and apologies. As far as they were concerned this was just uncomfrotable humour and diplomatic etiquetty between the two country’s is intact
chachine balitushokwesha….
MR SATA WAS VERY BRAVE TO SAY WHAT HAD SAID TO BUSH BECAUSE N0 OTHER AFRICAN LEADERS WOULD HAVE HAD THE GUTS TO TELL OFF BUSH.. MR PRESIDENTMY HATS OF TO YOU AND I SALUTE YOU FOR BEING A REAL (MAMUNA)MAN
Why does someone who came for volunteer work need “telling off”?
if some comes to help your country and he is not even in office why attack him? Mr Sata thinks this is the 60s. the world has evolved…he should seeking for more help than attacking the help
Mr Bush ‘coming to do Noble work’ ……I have learnt never to be so fickle when it comes to dealing with Americans……..they are capitalists and normally do not do ‘charity’ so simply, there should be a profit for them somewhere, which we are not yet aware of …..may be Mr Sata was right, with his uncontrollable mouth.
Perhaps you have not spent much time in the United States, but it is wrong to say that Americans are merely capitalists and do not normally do “charity”. Quite the opposite. There is a very long and proud history in the United States of doing volunteer work and donating to charity, both locally and internationally. In Zambia think of Peace Corps, child sponsorship organizations, and countless international NGOs funded by donations.
Some numbers from Google:
Some 56% of American adults (109 million people) volunteer annually, contributing an average of 3.5 hours per week totaling 20 billion hours per year with an estimated value of $225 billion.
An estimated 59% of teenagers (13.3 million people) volunteer annually contributing 2.4 billion hours worth $7.7 billion.
OK?
Americans are very generous! You must be in a different location. But if you talk about charity no country comes first
I will be shocked if Zambians Vote for this man back to Plot in 2016…… Am sure pipo have seen and learnt that this man has no plan for our country…..
13 Amayama,
I feel sorry for you!
Sata needed to know about Bush’s American culture regarding passing jokes because he had no clue even regarding the USA not being a colonizer!
Western culture does not allow people to VILIFY not make fun of other people especially someone you do not know on a personal level! Sata does not know George Bush on a personal level.
You seem to be a student where you are or you are one of the shushus like Mmembe of the Post, because if you have integrated where you you should know that Sata’s jokes where actually like he was vilifying George Bush!
Your head need some common sense!
OZ iam with you having stayed in the diaspora.PF cadres will get tired defending Sata!
Just hope wikileaks will make the cables from Lusaka on Bush’s meeting with Sata public and, what implications this will have on US-Zambia relations during the Sata Presidency… Certainly, some food for thought…
8 KACHIGAMBA,
Which braveness mwebantu plz? This is the problem where Zambians mistakes RUDENESS to braveness! You can be assertive without being rude!
Sata was not brave but rude and he vilified George Bush in the public which was a shame situation really!
I just hope Sata or his relatives especially his wife Dr Kaseba can realise this and advise Sata to apologise because whatever Sata said was wrong! I know George Chellah can not be brave and advise Sata but surely Dr Kaseba should be someone who should know that Sata vilified and was rude to George Bush.
Ukwa ni Silu
is it courage or ignorance/arrogancy???? how would u approach the wrong? slap it in the face or have a smart way to it?? hey and we r a country and need friends and help from others.
16 Twaliwina Cimikalipe(PF),
Mate! You are supporting and saying wrong things mate!
Unless you have not integrated here, you can not allow someone vilifying nor mocking nor making fun of you in public! Its just not right here! We do not allow it here and this is the culture we need to carry in Zambia not the opposite!
Rudeness anywhere in the world will and you in trouble.
Zambia is not at war so what braveness of Sata?
16 Twaliwina Cimikalipe(PF),
Mate! You are supporting and saying wrong things mate!
Unless you have not integrated here, you can not allow someone vilifying nor mocking nor making fun of you in public! Its just not right here! We do not allow it here and this is the culture we need to carry in Zambia not the opposite!
Rudeness anywhere in the world will land you in trouble.
Zambia is not at war so what braveness of Sata?
Why are you guys apologetic?
The President said what he perceived to be the truth. Can someone point out the President’s errors in this honest conversation?
Why do we always want hypocritical, let-us-pretend relationship with people? For your information, honest Westerners appreciate a person who calls a spade a spade. Full stop!
When you speak openly like this, there is no need for Wiki-leak to write anything, that, once revealed to the world constitutes conspiracy and shocks everyone who cares about anything.
Guts of running away from responsibility and telling lies…
Like what other people are saying slavery ended 150 years ago, and colonialism ended 50 years ago for Zambia. Zambia and some other African countries were colonized by Britain and left with a budget surplus at independence, and so was Malaysia and other Asian countries. Despite Zambia been richer in resources Zambia is now way under-developed compared to Malaysia. Is the slavery card or the colonialism one justifiable, seriously?
Whether these people have abandoned Africa or not, the squalor conditions of Africa and the poverty in Zambia are a result of our own greedy clueless leaders’ bad policies, and developing our country is not Bush’s, Britain’s or America’s responsibility.
Spot on! But I also feel independence came a bit too early for us in this part of the world. I bet the people of the far east had better literacy levels at the time of indepence than we had in Zambia – only 100 graduates. To worsen the situation we picked a talkative school teacher to become our president and in the end we had a government of mostly undereducated people. I remember Kaundas’ era when old uneducated madalas ran government institutions on the strength of “experience”. There was little inovation.
26 GUNDIX,
What spade?
Sata was very RUDE and he was vilifying George Bush! Western culture appreciate honest and being openness but it does not tolerate VILIFYING nor MAKING FUN nor RUDENESS to other people! If you vilify anyone at work in the Western world you are in trouble and you may be dismissed from work.
This is the Western culture i appreciate and have found here which protects everyone regardless of their status in society from being VILIFIED nor made fun of in public by such marauding dogs like Sata and Kabimba.
some seats deserve COOLANTS when they are too HOT…. both of them are in the MESS BUSH TO ANSWEER THAT IS AS GOOD as SATA to say what he said
feel sorry for mother zed.with those sentiments will cost us economic down fall.look at zimbabwe they are longer use there currency zim dollar.but hav switch on to US dollar.something went wrong may it was careless sentimentment by Bob and i quote Bush and Blair think there are gods.and today what currency is Zimbabwe using.it’s no other than the American Dollar.Now if one think a third world country like Zambia can say or do what ever it wish to superpowers then i wounder if you will ever expect some goodwill to be shown next time.
Ukwa ni Chbwi. He thinks everyone is his eastern mbuya.
#26 Gundix
A spade has to be called a spade in the correct context and at the right time.
Someone stated that the PF government have no plan, a ‘spade’ in every sense, and ended up cautioned by the authorities.
What HEMCS did was not a diplomatic incidence, which is very good, but was wrong at many levels, especially by implying that the abandonment of Africa by the West is the reason Zambia is under-developed. That is not a ‘spade’. These old school politicians need to stop running away from responsibility by cheaply hoodwinking coming generations into medieval politics.
I cant wait to see & hear Sata at UN General Assembly…. Gadaffi is gone, now its time for King Sata, he is ruling Africa!!.
Ka George chella, small minds can think that a storm can only be formed at sea, no boy, even in cup-of-tea there can be a hurricane. Ba Sata just need to choose better jokes, no one can talk of slavery & colonial sh#t in this century, now its time to manage the Chinese.
Ha! its only just started. Bamuvotele last year so, 4 more years to go bane!!!! lol. Twafwa! he’s already featuring in the UK Telegraph.. ma ma ma ma ma…. SMH then feeling dizzy pa last.
if you’ve no qualifications,you’ll worship you boss @ your place of work!
thats why ladies to be employed,they’re asked to open their legs!
But a young land with qualifications they’re saying no to such!
We can not worship the west!
PROUDLY ZAMBIAN!
True my man.
Honestly speaking anyone saying Sata was wrong should be very foolish. What the head of state Mr. Sata said actually was not even embarrassing, I stand behind him for saying the truth.
It’s very unfortunate that you call people you don’t even know foolish just because they do not agree with your sentiments.
The foolish person here is you. Learn to differ in opinion with others; hey you may be a paid up carder but that does not make you anything other than an empty can. Learn to be a responsible carder man, from the look of things, you hate diversity.
No leader here in Africa should continue to play the colonization and slavery card any more, we have work to do, develop our country not running away. You mean all the copper that is being ferried out of the country cannot be used to generate revenue for the country unless that which was stolen in the early 1900; guys be serious.
We cannot put leaders in govt to give us excuses ok.
young lady!
What a big shame Mr. Sata has brought to his country! Please, let someone advise the president that pride and arrogance will become his downfall if he can’t change. Or is it too late for him to change at 75 years!? Too bad for Zambians.
It is sad that PF cadres and shushushu would come here to defend Sata on what he said. Shame on them. Sata should apologize even if it was just a light moment as Chellah claims.
Deeper and educated thinking tells me Sata is what is needed by Africans to measure themselves and appreciate blackness…
more popcorns plizzz
if any zambian has atleast half a brain then we should all be asking for sata to step down.. no head of state can sink so low even if he or she is drunk. sata has painted a very bad picture of us all zambians. i know we have many respectable and honourable men and women in our country who are far better than sata
What do you expect from a CNP President !?
Believe me, no one knows Zambia, once you cross the border. The Western countries know only countries are like South Africa due to Mandela and Zimbabwe as a rogue country due to Mugabe. All others are Angola, Rwanda and Congo to them. So dont fee bad. No one in the outer world will remember this. Bush will forget his Zambian experience as a tea cup story and will tell his grandchildren about it. We are very far away from the developed nations and civility. The whole world knows Africa as a dark continent. Zambia is no different. So lets not make a mountain out of mole hill. This news is not important. Lets discuss football, as usually.
Education is very very important i end here !!
The British colonised Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Australia, Canada, NZ… Unlike some of these countries, Zambia, and a good portion of the African continent is blessed with an abundance of mineral wealth, agricultural possibilities and actualities and massive tourism opportunities. The present, consistent barbarism of Africa’s governments and the continent’s endemic corruption are not the fault of colonial powers of 100 years ago. The continued self-inflicted misery is African-made for the greater part.I accept that the countries created by Imperialism were artificial, not countries at all- but one cannot now undo history.
it takes some balls niggaz, some iron balls
Africa blames many of its woes on colonialism and the slave trade. There is deep resentment (I have lived in Africa and have witnessed this). Unpopular though it may be, both Africa and US blacks should accept the role played by African leaders in slavery and the flourishing of that trade thanks to their happy compliance with unscrupulous whites. It might ease some of the hate and willingness to grind on with the issues of long ago in the 21st century.Africa should be a wealthy continent- Zambia, one of its wealthiest countries. They have only themselves to blame- be honest Africans. You have squandered whatever you have had and continue to whinge, to beg and to bemoan those who have helped- repeatedly.
ha ha ha! king cobra!…what else can one expect from SATA. he always got that weird sense of humour and i bet george bush was not bothered because he is no different from Sata…going by some remarks he used to make in his time..look everybody’s mind tends to run away from us sometimes, i think there is no big deal with Sata’s comment….everyone is entitled to a personal opinion..it does not really matter, he was not making an official statement…besides its true what he said whether we like it or not…its an innocent joke but maybe at a wrong place or crowd . Bush is also a sort of funny chap and i would not be surprised if the 2 have since clicked and built some form friendship.
imwe ba RB muli chipuba mwamfwa bakabolala
Also read the following about BUSH vs SATA:
http://www.stuff-about.com/2012/07/george-bush-outwits-zambian-president.html
Thanks
What an embarrassment this man is, he is busy tearing the country apart with his arrongance tribal/regionalism or is it ignorance and now he has gone international madness!
show some diplomacy sir, you lose nothing . the whole incident did nnot go well with the public. lets respect former president Bush. Thanks
So the president has a tavern ‘nizamu shouta ‘ outburst and thats regarded as being brave? This is just nonsense where is the same bravery when dealing the chinese/investors on labour issues, tax issues to better the common zambian. Sata has no tact and thinks just because his cadre kaponya behaviour impresses the zambians who like chimwela when dealing with diplomatic matters you have to have a way with words . When being diplomatic you always have to ask yourself after I say these words what will I gain and lose at the same time. Here we have Sata a person who is virtually unknown and unimportant outside the vicinity of Zambia and then we have GWB who if offended can stop sending money to that charity. Now if that charity goes bust will sata even support them?
Can this story please go away,I’m just tired.Two old people fighting (Banda and Sata).
I aint got love for them!
Mr Sata fired back that the Americans’ role in the slave industry made them equally culpable: “The Americans did not physically colonise us, but at the same time, the Americans still have scars of slavery,” he said.
Amid nervous laughter from their assembled entourages, Mr Bush replied: “No question about it.”
Because am Christian I shall keep it PG or rated E. Our president like Putin or the Chinese premier has testicles. Which other leaders apart from Mugabe, Chavez and the above mentioned can speak up their mind. Drones and inferior fools I laugh at you. Though crude My president sata was on point.
The best way to respond to the legacy of colonialism is to become a major player in the global economy rather than expressing ignorance and arrogance in public. USA and the EU need the goods that are manufactured in China and vice versa, China needs the money from these regions in order to thrive. Talk is cheap and the only thing that will make a difference is to develop the economy so that we can employ our young men and women and increase our exports to the west. Only a simple minded and short sighted person thinks that cheap talk is the best way to payback.
Sata appears to be a moron. Any African leader that supports Robert Mugabe is both corrupt and evil. I imagine Sata would like to be president for life too. Power corrupts.
.. And by the way what happened to the idea of a pipeline from Angola to Solwezi, the Mansa battery factory, pineapple scheme in Western province e.t.c. These are things we need to start hearing from the man in high office.
Nafuti nafuti. please tell them and again remind them. a leader without fear. why pretend? HATS OFF MR PRESIDENT. bachepa!
My only concern is that such barbaric acts are most likely to result in Sata being shunned by a lot of countries simply because they do not know what to expect from him, as is the case with Mugabe next door. Etiquette is very important in every area of life, whether it is at work, pa Nsaka e.t.c. To put it simply, the jokes where out of place. Being delayed for a mere 15 minutes on the far from perfect Zambian roads should not come as a surprise.
So in your book you are best off being an Uncle Tom then??
Unlike some of you yellow belled arm chair keyboard internet critics, our president told GW Bush what was on his mind and if you read whole article from start, he started by stating that:
“Previously there used to be four great countries: United States of America, United Kingdom, Russia and France”
Hi guys! whether Mr Sata was joking or not, what he said makes sense. Pushi must learn about the culture of Mr Sata and not the other way round. On this one viva Mr Sata, keep it up. To hell with white supremacy and Pushi. Be assured Mr President we are backing u. Period.
Very disappointed with LT for pigeonholing us with this tired overplayed story, I guess the more comments you get, the more the web traffic; the more equally annoying loud interrupting “headache inducing” adverts on your website about dish-washing cleaners.
The man has no diplomacy???At least we have someone who can stand up against the west and tell them in their faces where they have gone wrong.Some bloggers just have this muzungu fear for no reason.I have lived in the UK for a while now and I can guarantee you the only way you will be respected is if you stand your ground.Yes bwana does not work here!!! A Zambian can be deported within 2 seconds but try and deport a Nigerian?
Some of you bloggers have believed that a certain stupid kind humbleness is normal.That is why very few Zambians survive and compete well outside the country.You have to be bold to get it!
Shaka ( CSI )
So your book you are best of being an Uncle Tom then??
Shaka ( CSI )
So in your book you are best off being an Uncle Tom then??
#70
I guess the word that is missing from Sata’s vocabulary is diplomacy. What was he going to achieve by hitting back at Bush in that way? As the saying goes and I quote “You cannot change history but you can learn from it”. Let us not forget that it was mainly the African’s themselves that sold their country men to the Slave trader’s. In other words the African’s where also players in the trade. The focus in this case should have been on Bush’s visit to Zambia and not digrace from his main mission. Insults only serve to soothe one’s ego but do not take you anywhere.
Bush is tough kid… this is nothing.. Not even flying shoes can touch him…And Sata is even more tougher kid.. he is not called King Cobra for nothing. I’m sure even Bush know what to expect from sata …the unexpected.
The Zambian Enterprise is a fantastic franchise, but this political paralysis derived from luck of focused leadership may spell doom for us all. We saw it in the MMD and now I am sad to say, we are beginning to see it in the PF. High profile individuals (Bush, Carter, Clinton, Gates, etc) know it while Zedians walk blind.
Our future should be based on problem solving, inclusiveness, and a willingness to address the trust deficit, which is every bit as corrosive as our fiscal, developmental and economic deficits.
Without that we all would sit here and argue all day but would add no value to our Enterprise … this cheap misdirected spew which adds no value to our current status quo. GWB did what RB hasn’t done, what MCS hasn’t done and in one week, he did more than any of us here.
….and i might add, a major entrepreneurial deficit.
Ba Enka Rasha … you got that right
There is no rudeness or vilification in what President Sata has said.
This Western culture someone is talking about here is no longer a “witchdoctor’s” secret. We now live in a “global village”. Most of us know about the etiquette that some of the discussants here are on about.
For your information, the West will respect you for being forthright. They are more uncomfortable if they have to guess you out.
#31, for your information I, like you have been a student and graduate of the West. Not only that, I live in the West (the best part of the West). So, am not speaking from hear say.
GWB was President of the United States of America for eight years, Americans trusted him with the presidency, their security, their prosperity, their wealth, their education, their civility, their freedom and the list is endless … RB was there for only three years and half years, MCS less than a year. Way below GWB’s league … tread light Zedians, tread lightly.
EXPOSURE !!!!!! EXPOSURE!!!!!! EXPOSURE!!!!! I am not advocating for VJ, nikawalala. But most administrations solicited him because he is well exposed to international relations and has the ability in managing dialogue, handling people, etc., so that there is little or no damage.
58# BR Mumba SR
The Americans have no scars on slavery. All what they have is the ** history of a painful period of their country on slave trade** . Slave trade happened more that 100 yrs ago. Present Americans cannot be held accountable for the bad deeds of their white ancestors.
Like wise present and future German nationals cannot keep being held accountable for the bad deeds Hitler did on the Jews.
Cont…
58# BR Mumba SR
God did not keep on regretting when the Pharoahs enslaved the Children of Israel but he decide to move forward and free them without looking back. And on the way when Lott’s wife tried to look back, she turned into the pillar of salt.
There comes a time when the **Flood-Gate** has to be closed. Regrets don’t take you forward but backwards.
Sharp tongue indeed, why harass your own visitor.Things were done in bad faith.
# 78
The freeing of the Israelites and the exit of Lot and his wife from Sodom and Gommorragh are two unrelated stories. I agree with you though on the issue of moving forward.
Ba Independent Observer: it does not matter … that was reported verbatim and George W himself responded and I quote, “… Amid nervous laughter from their assembled entourages, Mr Bush replied: “No question about it.”
George W himself answered, “No question about it!!!” … You see when you are not part of the conversation, you always over amplify or under-rate. This whole thing has been blown out of proportion by people who were not in the meeting for reason best known by themselves.
George W will be back in Zambia again soon to check on this projects, he is that kind of an executive, he was my Governor for six years and my President for eight, this is all cheap talk for him. His skin is thicker and his focus is higher, next.
This was not news in USA. The important thing to remember is people like George Bush are still very influential and can bring attention and money to causes and development projects. Many countries in the world would like to have George Bush come to their country to do charitable work. Bush does not have to choose Zambia. The list is long of countries wanting him. So embarrassing him in this way does not benefit Zambia in anyway. It can only chase him and his organization away. If Sata was joking he should have done it in private not public embarrassment on US Independence day. Bush was late on appointment because he was helping needing Zambians. Did Sata remember that?
meant to say … George W will be back in Zambia again soon to check on “his” projects. Sorry about the above.
Etiquette is what stops whites in the West from calling blacks ‘nigger’ because that’s what they think of blacks, and they wouldn’t be wrong to do so because that’s calling a ‘spade’ a spade. Etiquette is what you practice to avoid been offensive or breeding awkwardness, It’s not ‘muzungu ani konde’ neither is the muzungu practicing ‘mu black ani konde’ by not calling you ‘nigger’ to your face. But i tell you it’s all good in a kaponya’s world, because having balls to been subnormal is the norm and admirable thing to do. We don’t want jokes or telling off people. We want actions that improve our people’s livelihood.
Well the man was late regardless of what he used to be I mean if KK was late for an engengment he probably not be mate by Obama maybe not even a secretary. Only when we change the way we think yes they may have the money but we are humans too. Other leaders could have even started apologising to Bush for Bush’s coming late. Although, the big man should tone down a little bit the truth of the matter is that he is the leader in office. About whether USA colonised us I mean neo colonialism is still very thrive in the States . . . .
Ba Rycus: MCS has a very high IQ, just like GWB … you may not believe the first part but time will prove this right for you. It is because of MCS’s higher IQ than RB that he beat him in the last election. Likewise, it was proven during GWB’s presidency that his IQ was higher than Al Gore. It is because of GWB’s higher IQ than Al Gore that he beat him in 2000.
Al Gore became unhinged soon after losing the election and started acting more like RB acted in this case. Bush is smart and he gets it, it wasn’t until September 11, 2001 that Al Gore came around and declared to the world that George W Bush was his President.
RB’s action here declared the opposite, now did MCS do the right thing, did he say the right thing? Maybe he was speaking in Bemba with direct translation … Cont
The foolishness shown in this column make me wonder what type of people we have up there.
The President was talking to his friend, no harm, but you *****s and your Banda you have turned this gesture into some thing else, silly.
80# Shaka – You are spot on
Yes, they are two different places in the bible. I just joined them as similar scenarios together, in context because they have a common denominator – of trying to move forward in life.
Bush came in late. Even if he was coming to my home I would have rebuked him for that. He never even apologized for being late, with all the security men to inform him of our terrain, I thought America was smart enough to judge the timing. And on issues of morality Bush was offensive in the first place. He insulted the Head of State by coming late; as if to show he was superior. SAME ON HIM.
Then when elders are talking you don’t answer back George, do you get this? Just like ‘Children are seen but not heard’. You sounded even more offensive. Next time ask your intelligence to educate you about African morals before you set foot in Zambia.
Continued … suppose he was speaking in Bemba with direct translation, US Embassy in Lusaka has staff trained specifically to decode those messages, you may not get it but these guys are on top of things and they have already done their own debriefing explaining to GWB exactly what MCS was talking about while three days after the fact you are still talking about a non-issue.
That’s normal, for instance my office staff in Jordan speak Hebrew and Arabic, there are things they talk to me about in their English that still need translation into “English” before I can act on them. Same thing with my office in Switzerland, they speak French in Geneve, German in Zurich and Italian in Lugano, even in their own “Franco-English, Bunde-English or Italiano-English” I still need translation.
81# BR Mumba
I did not say that those were your quotes but was adding my statement in perspective to your posting. I have seen the article’s transcript.
George Bush being the ex-governor has no interest to me. I worked in Silicon Valley (San Francisco Bay Area – NC ) when he was Governor for Texas. I followed his foreign policies closely when he was in Oval Office. As it matters, causes US Foreign Policies have an impact to the rest of the world
I appreciate what he is doing presently as well as the works he did for the Africa Millennium Account.
This is a problem of verbatim reporting, when Bush was laughing at Sata’s jokes, this was not reported, just the e x a c t w o r d s t h a t o n e s a i d
Ba Independent Observer: Gotcha, you may want to correct (San Francisco Bay Area – NC) the “NC” should be “CA” you are the best … thanks a trillion
Aha .. Independent Observer @90
Ooops! I think I now know who you are. So you worked in Silicon Valley before becoming an Investment Banker. I like your blogs about Capital Markets. You should set up a website to educate other Zedians
92# BR Mumba Sr
Actually, I was refering (San Francisco Bay Area – NC ) NC as North California. That said you are also very correct to point out as CA.
you betcha
It would not be a bad idea after all to require the future presidential candidates to pass an exam in Wisdom. As wisdom is too high for a fool, a pass mark of between 2-5% would keep future embarrassments at bay. I rest my case.
93# Kiwi
It’s a collective measure from everyone. All Zambians have to contribute to development.
Development, Productivity & Wealth Creation starts in our way of thinking or mind-sets before it becomes a reality.
Thanks for your gesture.
Besides being a strong supporter of President Micheal Sata and whether one is for or against what he said to former President George W Bush, the reality is he erred on this one even if it was mean’t to be a joke. Such kind of jokes are only mean’t for closed door meetings. And I don’t know whether it’s just me, but I am beginning to think this presidency issue is going too much to MCS’s head because he has showed a lot of uncivility of late. The only consolation as B R Mumba says is that George Bush is tough tested. People have labeled him with so much gutter spew but he’s so much principled he wouldn’t let such a belittling discussion desuade him from doing his noble cause of helping cancer victim through his charity. He will certainly be back earlier than we all think.
Ba Coachez: We need a highly trained Chief of Staff at State House, one well vested in protocol, public etiquette, diplomacy and decorum. We also need to train our president to stick to his written scripts, that’s the only way he would not be speaking things in Bemba-English that need translation. Some things are well thought of than said.
We are in this thing together and sitting here all day criticising him in damage control mode won’t cut it … we have four more years of protocol, public etiquette, diplomacy and decorum. Zambia is greater than any single one of us and we are equal to this task because Zambia is at stake … as always, childhood pal. Spot on!!
I don’t see anything wrong with this discussion. some times people need to be told the truth as it is.
pliz guys have some respect.stop insulting president sata.He did not insult mr Bush.Mr sata wasnt wrong when he said it was pay back time,i guess that statement just fell on da wrong person.Wake up zambians (africans) we were physically enslaved.Lets not fall victims to psychological y mental slavery again.
I was an intern in a major European news office some years ago, when Zambia was trying to deport Roy Clarke. Someone brought in visual recordings of interviews done on a street in London on how people felt about a Briton been deported from Zambia. There was this part where a person been interviewed was explaining the question to a friend and went like, ‘there is this unknown African country trying to deport Roy Clark’. They edited it out because they thought it would be offensive not only to me but to Zambians at large. I cared less, but they still cut it out.
George Bush was never renowned for his intellectual credentials but during his encounter with Sata, he looked like Albert Enstein. If Zambians to not rid themselves of this CNP, he will sooner than later embarrass them by undressing him public exposing his shelved bollocks.
IT’S PAY BACK TIME……….PERIOD. WHEN THEY BRING AID, IT’S EITHER THEY WANT SOMETHING IN RETURN OR THEY ARE JUST PAYING BACK. NOW SINCE THERE IS NOTHING THEY WANT IN RETURN, THEY ARE SIMPLY PAYING BACK…..PERIOD. THIS AIN’T SUPPOSED TO BE EVEN A JOKE, IT’S JUST THE WAY IT IS ‘PAY BACK TIME’. THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE IN REVERSE.
CALL A SPADE A SPADE.
Some of you have put George Bush in contest with King Micheal Sata because your HH,aka Under 5, aka Chimbwi No Strategy (CNS) has no place in the contest with the King of Politics HEMC. So GWB is just sitting in for HH.
@ba Mumba BR, I usually find it had to disagree with you. However, I’m not clear about your stance on the present topic. Are you saying it’s alright to joke about poverty in our country? I generalize because I that’s what HEMCS is doing. look at every fora hez been, it’s all jokes from him. I didn’t vote him into plot 1 to become a comedian. The problems Zambia is facing are not a joke neither are they a chimbuya issue. He was intelligent enough to get a vote from I and the kaponyas but he shouldn’t behave like hez still out there at Soweto or Chisokone market. It’s time he changed his sharp words into sharp actions that translate into eradication of poverty and disease from our land. how can he say a little corruption is fine.
# 106
Payback time which is just like blowing a lot of hot air. Tell me where all the medical research and machinery that prolongs the lives of the continent comes from? Where does all the mining equipment and technology used to dig up and process the copper ore come from? The Chinese have found out that there is no point in re-inventing the wheel and simply reverse engineer or buy the technology and afterwards mass produce. We just have to use our medulae oblongata and be in a position to compete on level terms. That is the best way going forward. Great nations like the USA are founded on the ideas and hard work of great people.
That’s the model king of zulus. You’re as correct as 1+1=2.
The Taleban must be smiling…they have found kinsman in our CNP!
@ ba Mumba BR, continued
Hez changed us into electorates that worry every time he stands to speak. And the school that teaches us to blame the West for our woes was founded on greed and selfishness. Blame everything on the West whilst I steal, I become a dictator to my people, I practice nepotism, I perform below par, I breed corruption, and I murder opponents. After all the West are too civil to deny the blame.
B R Mumba, Sr
Please lets move on ba Chief, the President should rethink, he deliberately hand-picked spin-doctors from the Post to weaken it, he should get seasoned Public Relations diplomatic staff.
you betcha …
Ba Rycus: I am looking at a broader picture here. The best way to get the best out of MCS is to limit him to what is good at. For instance, he is a hard worker with a hands on approach more like GWB. The two are similar in many ways when it comes to work ethics. But while GWB grew well on the job and was able to handle complicated leaders like Putin, etc. MCS is still æons away.
Both can handle tough constructive criticism but again GWB is again æons ahead of MCS, he can learn very quickly to better himself. As president, you are really not in control a concept many would find hard to believe, your schedule and your meetings are planned ahead of time by strategic people in charge of protocol, public etiquette, diplomacy and decorum without whom you are lost.
David Cameron’s judgement was questioned when the phone hacking scandal came into the public domain and he picked a person that was in the thick of it to handle the press. In the same light, MCS’s judgement should also be questioned for picking an inexperienced person like George Chellah as a press advisor. My opinion is that he picked someone that he could easily overstep in order to have his way. Can you teach an old dog new tricks? Nay. His brash manners simply leave a lot to be desired. He is accountable to the Zambian people who put him there in the first place.
continued … these people are so powerful they actually run the country behind the scenes. One has to surround him/her self with them, the problem we have in Africa is we let the president run thing, he is nothing but a figure head.
His job is be given all aspects of every issue, advise him/her on all pros/cons and allow him to make the best decisions for the country. Politicians don’t understand this until they win the office, then all of a sudden they are introduced to all these unknown people sworn to secrecy who run the country.
The initial reaction is total confusion, one reason MCS was not able to do anything the first three months in office. Now the president reaches a point where he starts disagreeing with them on things and starts to cut his teeth. That’s where MCS is.
What is obtaining in Zambia is so Sad, you have a tyrant for president and yet just because he speaks your language and comes from your region you have unyielding love and support for him, History repeats itself, it happened in Geermany, about 8o years ago with a man named Hitler, happened in Rwanda. Be objective!
continued … at this point, the general populace start seeing a power hungry individual, someone losing track, forgetting his election campaign and talking more about himself. If he fails to counter-balance himself with these people I am referring to you start to see all these gaffes.
If he re-aligns himself with them, you start seeing progress and his/her presidency getting defined leading to his legacy. It is said of Clinton that he worked well with his advisors in the first term but lost their support in the second, it is said of Bush 41 that he lost them in the first term and the rest is history.
President Obama has been their good student, President Kennedy lost them over civil rights, the list is endless. What you are seeing in MCS is normal but he has very little time …
Continued … his predecessor lost them within six months of his presidency, Chiluba lost them in his second term and Levy feared them such that he was afraid of even having a Minister of Defense until he was comfortable in his skin, KK lost them in 88 and was on auto-pilot until he eventually lost elections in 91.
It is very lonely at the top, but once one has the right advisors, directs his/her strength in the right place, he/she finds one’s mojo and his/her presidency gets defines and find his/her legacy.
MCS is in the process of discovering himself but if he does not surround himself with the right people, he is doomed and would go in history as a man with huge promise that never realized his potential once the opportunity lent itself. Things like GWB’s visit define others
Continued … Things like GWB’s visit define others, other presidents on the continent would kill for that, MCS squandered the opportunity. GWB chose to spend his birthday (yesterday) with the smart people of the Zambian Enterprise, MCS could not even throw a Birthday Party for GWB as a state function.
Unless, MCS moves beyond this stage and focuses his strengths at things people voted him for, he is doomed. If he forgets that his is for going to visit people at Kamwala to ask them what he needs to do to improve their welfare, he is doomed.
As long as he is going to ask his leaders to knee down in Livingstone and humiliate them, he is going to loss by-elections. He doesn’t need to evolve into something he is not. He just needs to be himself, row up the sleeves and get to work.
Sata will continue to embarrass Zambians as long as he is in that office. He is so unpredictable and uncouth. George Bush did not deserve to be treated like that when he is helping the Zambian people through his charity work. Sata is uneducated and uncivilized, so for him to understand civility it is probably a very hard thing to do. Unfortunately, even the so called Post *****s have joined him, they are so quiet and they too are behaving like him now. Sata and Meembe are now bed mates.
What you chaps don’t relies about this chap GW Bush is that if he went to Europe he wouldn’t enjoy the type of freedom he enjoys in Zambia, in Europe the chap would be wearing a dragon skin bulletproof vest that repels AK-47 rounds so this so called diplomatic spat with our President is just water under the bridge. This Texan Bush is thick skinned and will be back in 6 months time this chap is making up for lost time…in Europe he wouldn’t have the privilege to paint any building without okaying it with Scotland Yard and MI5!!
It’s not necessarily about George Bush being so free when he is in Zambia or Europe, it is about the lost opportunity by MCS. Other presidents would have made good use of the opportunity to meet a former US president in a cordial, friendly and mutually respectable way. Don’t forget, he is an American, they are still in charge of the world affairs, whether you like it or not, George Bush can still influence what happens in Zambia.
Ba Mwe mbwamwe @ # 122
Mwalasa!
what is wrong bakuwe imwe,uwo chakalipa akonke george mpanga.
@6 I don’t agree with you, A head of State being made waiting?? BUSH SHOULD BE THE ONE TO APOLOGISE & KNOW HOW IMPROTANT TIME MANAGEMENT IS ESPECIALLY WITH A HEAD OF STATE. SORRY we are ZAMBIANS and we are not as.s lea.kers??
Sata is mistaking the office of the governer of lusaka and president of the state of zambia as one and the same.Power is getting in his head he appaers to be headed same way as gaddafi,mugabe and the likes.
B R Mumba Sr. & others. GWB is focused on his charity work around the world and may certainly come back to Zambia. Do we expect another ‘Light hearted comment’ from Mr Sata? as he may still be head of state when George comes again.
RB wanted to settle scores using wrong platform ,timing and purely jealous
Eba Kateka abaa bane….as a well meaning Zed I totally see no wrong in Sata’s approach ukulanda icishinka cisuma.The man was so polite,diplomatic and was straight to the point,was not pretending ukuzembaika no,no.And the former presida, abasunsumenepo fye pacipuna akantu ukulatutila kubutala bwabo,was totally out of order even to waste his time and write the so called appology letter.What was it for? nangu cibeleshi nifi..if he failed to utilise his time to mingle with such personalities for he was busy flying that must be his only funeral,period.
just what is RB’s problem????? De tasteful!!!!!!!! George Pampanga cheated the World that Iraq had WMD and “colonised” it for cheap oil. The result today is 1,000,000 widows, with over 1,000,000 American babies! George Pampanga, should be the last person to complain about not having “colonised” any country, as the so called “occupation” amounts to “colonialism”.
How did Sata become President? Because no country anywhere in the world can elect a person of Sata`s calibre as President. Its really a shame to have Sata as President in the 21st Century.
Its not surprising that a number of PF cadres are supporting Sata`s behavior! Most of them were raised in homes with no values. Hence an old fashined culture of insults among most PF members.
There is noway a well brought-up person can support Sata`s behavior towards George Bush. George Bush was late because he was doing a more important charity work than meeting Sata. It is
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My Dear George Chellah, instead of you defending a wrong deed by saying the issue was not a diplomatic incident, advise our president that there is no “Chimbuya” in English and he should avoid jokes that can embarass foreign diginatories.
Your reaction to this issue shows that you know very little about Diplomacy. I am readty to give you a few tips.
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and why RB in the picture above?
Why the fuss at such a joke by our beloved President? Zambian people puzzle me alot !!
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The friendship is between the two the rest you are just speculating.They are other things to do in life than talking about the friendship of the two. It was the conversation between the two period. The only foolish person is RB who doesn’t not read between the lines.
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