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Western Province wants the Litunga to be head of administration in the province

By editor
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King Imwiko Lubosi (II) sitting on his thrown in the Kuta (Traditional Court) in Limulunga royal village in Mongu contrary to reports that he had died.

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King Imwiko Lubosi (II) sitting on his thrown in the Kuta (Traditional Court) in Limulunga royal village in Mongu contrary to reports that he had died.
King Imwiko Lubosi (II) sitting on his thrown in the Kuta (Traditional Court) in Limulunga royal village in Mongu contrary to reports that he had died.

DELEGATES at the Western Province Constitution Convention have resolved that Article 201 of the Draft Constitution be amended by making the Litunga and the council as the head of administration in the province.

The decision was arrived at yesterday following an election preceded by a debate, with those in support of the amendment, as proposed by Mongu delegates at the Western Province district consultative fora, getting 58 votes while the opposing side obtaining 29.

Similarly, as recommended by Mongu delegates at the Western Province district consultative fora, their counterparts at provincial level yesterday also recommended that Article 203 be amended by including three provisions after Clause (4).

The delegates at the Provincial Constitution Convention held in Mongu reached that conclusion following an election which saw those in favour of the amendment polling 55 and those against it getting a paltry five votes.

The three included provisions to Article 203 state that: “In the case of the Barotseland, there shall be established the Barotse National Council in accordance with the tradition of the people of the Barotseland and members of the Barotse National Council shall also be members of the Provincial Assembly of Barotseland.

The other amendment states,”The Provisions agreed upon for inclusion in the Constitution of Zambia at the Constitution Conference held in London in May, 1964 shall form part of this Constitution and shall have full force and effect in Barotseland.”

The third proposed amendment says, “The Government of Zambia shall take such steps as are necessary to en sure that the laws for the time being in force in the Republic of Zambia are not inconsistent with the provisions of the Barotseland Agreement of 1964.”

One of the major highlights among the debaters was Western Chapter Local Government Association of Zambia vice president Kunga Kalimbwe when he argued that the country was trying to come up with an “indivisible” Constitution and thus there was no need for a Barotse National Council.

Mr Kalimbwe contended that the inclusion of the Barotse National Council was unfair and unnecessary because other provinces had existing councils.

“We want uniformity in a Zambia that is equal to all the people of Zambia.Uniformity for all the Zambians. This is not the Constitution for Barotseland alone. It’s a Constitution for the Republic of Zambia.

In that respect, it must contain all the provinces’ wishes,” he said.

Mr Kalimbwe was at some point interrupted by murmuring delegates prompting the Convention chairperson Bernard Silumesii to demand for order before allowing the debater to continue with his submission.

Mr Kalimbwe is also MMD Mbanyutu Ward councilor in Kaoma’s Luampa Constituency.

editor
editorhttp://www.lusakatimes.com

139 COMMENTS

  2. I concur with Mr. Kalimbwe. we need a unitary state & constitution. please baane leave the Litunga alone. Infact, as we Zambians intermarry we should start reducing tribal inclinations and increase nationalistic identies. image the bemba royal establishment also demanding inclusion in provision administration. you think Mupenzani will just watch? lets stop being anarchists. Be Zambian and patriotic stop leaving in the past. Even in Britain the monarch is a diminishing concern. Go to Tanzania you are either a Tanzanian or a foreigner nothing like am from chief kabulwebulwe or chief mbwe period. mwatuchupa!!!

    • Tell the nation about your model (most sucessful) unitary state in the world, depending on one person to run all the affairs of that counry at the centre. It be noted that individuals, families, commmunities, societies, through to the nation as a whole in this global village need political, legal, economic, social, cultural rights autonomy or independence. You do not need to continue living in your parants home in order for you to continue being their issue (son or daughter). Grow up and fend for yourself! Do not fear the unknown. Barotseland has been autonomous before. Tell the nation which other region was autonomous during the colonial rule, other than Barotseland.

  3. Indeed, stupid. Why do these Lozis think they more Zambians than others? They can go and hung for all Zambian people care.

    • Ebutupe tweba mwe baLozi no wonder dealing with Lozis you can end up in problems when are you going to change please leave Lubosi alone

    • Because they only became part of Zambia through the Barotse Agreement. Now tell me how the other provinces became part of Zambia? If you cannot please STFU!

    • Sadly, it took one sentence and a thumb print from each ‘chief’ to create Northern Rhodesia. It took a pencil and ruler to draw up and carve out ‘Rhodesia’. The documents are there for you to see. One day we will stop fighting amongst ourselves and take more interest in why there is so much correspondence and so many treaties required to whittle out the territory that is giving you this angst today. The advantage is they have more written history than most so read without prejudice and you’ll get why the Brits are silent witnesses 🙂 Normally they give a country independence, right. In our case ‘they witnessed an agreement’. Think about it.

    • We are not more Zambians than other Zambians BUT tell me: Which other Province had a status of Barotseland? Was Northern Province a Protectorate and was the same Northern Province a nation-state before Zambia’s independence? What role did Northern Province play in the unification of a country called Zambia today? Were the people of Northern Province represented at the London talks which ultimately saw the birth of a country called Zambia? Kaunda should explain this to people like you who are ignorant of what they are saying.

  5. This is surprising shocking and and disturbing, the inclusion of the formation of Barotse Nation council, why calling it “National council?” the other point states, “The laws of the republic of Zambia should not be inconsistent with the laws of Barotse National council” in this case Barotse will be existing as a separate state and making its own laws. Are we really going to have another country within our mother Zambia?”. The debate in western province is inconsistent with what was supposed to be debated and what other provinces have debated upon. I leave it for others to judge where this is taking us to.

    • I have debated with the proponents of the BA64 and no one has explained to me why the Barotses accepted the suggestion by the Brits to be part of NR at the time the Brits were being kicked out. Can someone explain why that was an essential ingredient in the final negotiation?

    • @Solola. Ask Kaunda. He is the one who pleaded with the Barotse National Council. He went to Limulunga and begged them. Ask the idi.ot before he dies. There’s a reason why is unusually quiet over this matter.

    • It’s shocking only when you capture the smoke leaving the fire itself. In short, its shocking to you because you do not know the history of how Zambia became a nation. You are turning a blind eye to the history of the role Barotseland played in the formation of a unitary state called Zambia today. No other Province was privy to that history. By the way, how old are you?

  6. I am sure the constitution commission will ignore these pro-Barotse agreement submissions. We certainly do not want to that backward route. Zambia has progressed beyond these tribalistic and backward thoughts. Just look at the Lozis live and interact with other tribes in Lusaka and the Copperbelt; you can hardly tell the difference. Zambia is one and we are not going to have constitutional provisions tailored fro one tribe as if they are a superior tribe. It’s like in a marriage. The man and woman become one. Barotse land went into a marriage relationship with Northern Rhodesia to become one Zambia, one nation, period. Whoever does not accept this if free to find citizenship elsewhere.

    • Interesting that you credit the ability of Lozis to interact well with others to anything but their own efforts. Historically the Lozis were in those areas you mention long before many others moved in and thus are good and welcoming co-hosts 🙂

  7. I new nothing sensible would come from there. These guy’s thinking is very backward. Even those below 30years old think like the Lozis of 1850 used to think. We have to call a spade a spade. Parents used to give there children those very bitter pills called cloroquine because they new that was the right medicine for them despite the biterness. In this similar situation,we just have to think for our friends in western province and give them the constitution we feel is good for them. The *****s can never survive on there own

    • I think you are tribalist and i dont appreciate your insults. Im lozi, born and raised in lusaka, i know how other tribes look at us as sleepy self individuals, your kind of people are so backward and judgemental, thats the reason why all these heads of states have never done any kind of development in western province since 1964 because they believe we are stupid and sleepy. Lozi’s are patient, have respect towards other tribes, friendly, trustworthy, kind, loyal and well mannerd, with all these qualities, we are percieved to be dumb… we are called names…. Dont underestimate us, love us instead. God Bless

    • Mwamba Mutale, you do not make sense yourself. Their arguments are based on a LEGAL agreement ie Barotse Agreement. Whereas your stu.pid ouitburst is based on emotion laced with anger and bigotry. The British swear by their 500 year old ‘unwritten constitution’ and Americans swear by their 300 year old constitution. And for some reason you think its wrong to fight for an Agreement that was signed 50 years ago. My dear you are the one with a problem. It is people like you who have messed up Zambia and Africa. Legal documents to you fo.ols are an inconvienience. No wonder you do not respect your own constitutions nor your laws. Stop living in the jungle and join the civilized world!

    • In 1850 the ‘last’ slave ship Candida left the coast of Angola despite so called bans. David Livingstone decided to play explorer rather than missionary and was stumbling around drawing maps. I am guessing you are clearer about what the Westerners were doing during this time than you are about your own. From whom did these people learn about what cured all sorts of ills, or animals, or foods? Livingstone was logging things, artists drawing them, we were teaching them and now you look down on your own. Not your fault. We are reaping what was sown. We should educate ourselves better than they ever did. Starting by seeing beyond tribe to the actual shared positives and be proud of all ‘Zambian’ history not just what we like.

  9. Is Paramount chief Chiti Mululu going to be the head of administrationin northern province?

    Is Mwata Kazembe going to be the head of administration in luapula province?

    Is Chief Mpezeni going to be the head of administration in eastern province?

    Is Chief Moonze going to be head of administration in southern province?

    ……………….

    If not then it’s a non starter

    • Do not compare like with dislike. The position of the King of Barotseland has always been different from the Chiefs you are referring to. That is why Marotse want to leave you to handle your Chiefs as take responsiblity of their King!

    • The Provinces you’ve mentioned have never been kingdoms. They are recent political creations. Isnt Mpezeni’s chieftainship confined to Chipata only?The Litunga is the King for the whole Province. Please just accept that Barotseland is not like other Provinces. Besides it is the only Province that had to join with Northern Rhodesia through an Agreement.

    • From my knowledge of Kingdoms in Africa and I mean real kingdoms not wanna be bid the Lunda Kingdom,Luba Kingdom, Mani Kongo, Zulu Kingdom, Ashanti Kingdom were the real thang! You cannot insist on other people to recognise what does not exist. King of a tribe is equal to a governor! The Litunga will never equal the real Mwata of the original Luba-Lunda Kingdom where histroy has it the Luyi originated from. The Makololo conquered the Lozi and introduced their customs on them. Any myths that Lozi people came from South Africa is like me saying I came from Britain because we were ruled by the British at some point.
      We have a Queen in Britain and no one argues as to weather she is or not. Her Kingdom extends beyond the UK.
      It is a real fact that the title chief has been misused in Zambia.

    • cont.
      Chief is not the best title for the Litunga, the Mwata, Chiti Mukulu and so on. Maybe the person who gave them this title was limited in the knowlege of English at the time.
      A village headman is not equal to the above so maybe a better title would hvae been appropriate. The above titles rule or presided over more that one ethic group.

    • Am glad you have differentiated the chiefs yourself, may I correct your medulla oblangata . Lozis do not have a chief. But they have a KING that’s the difference because he oversears a state or country e.g like King muswati who is head of that state

    • @Hola – I will try and point you to an article in the British press where they spoke at length about their negative imperialistic exploits and pointed out that one of their tricks, particularly in Southern Africa was eliminating queens and replacing them with kings before then reducing them to chiefs and telling them there was only one queen. Theirs. Don’t be short sighted about something even the British admit to 🙂 If you have time and access there is lengthy correspondence between the British and Barotseland who refused to use the word chief. If we think beyond tribes our shared history is richer than we currently accept.

    • Which of these Chiefs has unfettered authority in the whole province? Why weren’t theses chiefs part of Zambia’s constitution as the Litunga and Barotseland? PS, I am not a Lozi but am a lawyer well versed in history and Barostseland. But for the 1969 referendum under dictator Kaunda, Barostseland would have been a semi-autonomous province. Please read history, it is not difficult!

    • THE WORD ‘PROVINCE’ NEVER EXISTED BEFORE, SO THERE IS NO NEED TO MENTION THAT THE LITUNGA IS THE KING OF THE PROVINCE

    • Bakulu ba nchito. Youre a tribalist. The more reason the country should be broken up. You cannot on one hand call for unity and on the other declare that you do not accept certain ethnicities for the office of president. Better you confine yourself to your province because that way you wont have your hated ethnicities in the political arena. I am quite sure you are one of the maggots who is singing praises for Mazoka now that he is gone.

    • A rather foolish and narrow attack . Let’s be sober an avoid generalisations. The bottom line is Zambia is a republic and traditional rulers have a seperate and distinct role that should be kept that way.

    • Thats too harsh.Tone down my brother. Why would you want to hange citizenship over that. Just enjoy your life with your family. And besides, Lozis are people just like you and I.

  15. A redundant and divisive proposal. How about chiefs in other provinces? All chiefs- paramount or otherwise- must have equal powers and authority.

    • Do not feel jealous of what belongs to others, of which you do not have. Accept plurality and tolerate diversity in the nation if Barotseland might continue to be part of Zambia or is It Northern Rhodesia, since you do have have a rich history. It is this jealousy, envey, and inferiority that Malozi are trying to avoid by reverting to their position before 1964, to save you from your heartbreaks over their inheritance. Long live Barotseland!

    • It is not the fault of the Lozis that your Chiefs did not have agreements with the Colonial Masters and the Northern Rhodesia Gvt. Agreement is Agreement – it must be honored. Problem we have in Zambia is that we hav too many illiterates: people who do not know their history. History is straight forward. You can not change history. What I mean is that u can not change who your mother or father is. That is history. What the Lozis are trying to do now is to correct a serious wrong that was perpetuated by Unip and Kaunda. What Kaunda did to the Lozis is to give them a ‘father’ who was not theirs. That is what they are trying to correct…..Simple…even a grade 7 can understand that.

  16. The statements they convention has made are there to sulvage the situation and save zambia from getting broken to its original state before indepdendence. the BA64 is real and with us, we must not ignore it anymore, otherwise barotseland is gone from us. you may need to know that this the best change for government to act quickly and honor the BA64 to consolidate the unitary system. we have ourselves to blame if we do not see the wisdom from our friends.

  17. @child of the sky, the Marotse are at point of no return, just like you think zambians are at a point of no return. these guys have a legal document initiated in british parliament. it was made just for todays situation, that is, to protect barotseland. and they succeeded. right now we are almost losing land as far as the kafue river and you want to be emotional about it. let us talk to these guys if we love them

    • “initiated in Brit Parley..” That is the problem! Africans always want what a white man said to be self evident, at the expense of their rights and obligations to themselves. It is a travesty.

    • My point is I do not trust those dekegates. those resolutions are a dichotomy of what w we
      barotse want. we do not want restoration. its last that & those delegated represented of not we the barotselanders

  18. The moment we see the lozis in other parts of the country taking buses back to the sand is when we wil take u seriously…. ati litunga to be head of provincial administration??? where do such kind of thinking come from?? this litunga is just another overrated chief!!! whats really the problem with this tribe? 21 st century with this kind of backwardness.

  19. The trouble is that it can not be included in the constitution on the strength of Western Province submissions alone as this is not a Lozi constitution but a national constitution. I think they need another dose of silent treatment because as soon as you give them an ear they they start coming up with some ridiculous stuff. If we agree to this rubbish Mpezeni and his kwindi men will also rise then Mwata kazembe as precedence would have already been set. They will have to wait until HH is President because under HE Mr Sata it will not happen, he’s not stnpid.

    • How many times are you going to be reminded that your Mwata Kazembe, Mpezeni and Chitimukulu have no legal basis to make the claims that you are purporting? How can you claim back something you never had? The Barotse on the other hand have a legal document that they signed to be part of Zambia under specific conditions. And those conditions have not been met and they have every right to demand what they are demanding!

    • You are missing the point. This agreement was signed between David Kenneth Kaunda representing the people of Northern Rhodesia (ie you and I beacause im not Lozi) and the Litunga representing the people of Barotseland. So if you like, the Nation u are refering to ‘SIGNED’ this agreement. Now the Nation can not back out saying ‘this is a national doc’. Of cause it is National. Remember, it is this agreement that formed the ‘Unitary State’ we refer to as Zambia. Without it there can be no Zambia.Read your history!

  21. You can’t make a dictator like that! In UK they ran away from that. What is happening is the same problem which bred Alkaida. Alkaida came about because the kings and other long term leaders blocked their aspiration though it now seems its the West that caused the terrorists. Making Litunga be head of everything belongs to history. Governance bust be separated from chieddom or kingdom. We want many leaders come up from western province and not only the Litunga. Those who died under the king’s tyranny musy be turning in their graves! My foot! Democracy must be for everyone and leadership must noy only be a preserve of one clan. Some can br more competent in leadership than some Litunga successors. This is a new world order and do not take people to stone age.

    • We have God given right to decide how we want to be ruled. its called right to self determination. What is wrong with that? We belong. is that a problem?

  22. who say western province what do they mean because in Zambia are only big cities are developed eastern,northern,luapula, even central northwestern are underdevelopment so asking for separation or special constitution is selfish for a province have to think as a nation not group to always want favour without heart of others.

    • And how was this ‘nation’ created if not by a witnessed agreement between two representatives? One doesn’t have to like it but it is a fact that Barotseland was brought to the table in order to birth Zambia and the constitution process cannot ignore the inception because it is an inconvenient truth. It matters not whether one likes the tribes involved. You do no sign something that you do not intend to honour then cry foul when it is pointed out that you have behaved dishonourably. Dialogue is the way forward. Preferably between those who actually want a resolution.

  24. What is this funny obsession with the Chief stuff among Lozis? So it looks like the rest of the provinces will be electing their provincial leaders except in Lozi land, eish. See guys, Mwata Kazembe can never ever think of leading Luapula as a constitutional decree because he is just a Senior Chief. There are several others in Luapula like Mushota of the Chishinga, Mwansakombe of the Ng’umbo. Lundas are only in a small portion of the valley. We have Ushis, Ng’umbos, Kabendes, Ungas, Batwas, Shilas, Tabwas and Chishingas who are of the Bemba stock! MWATA is Lunda whose kingdom is only pronounced by Mutomboko ceremony. Are Nkoyas agreeable in Western P. to that foolish idea?

    • Zambia became to be an independent country through the Barotse Agreement signed on by Sir Mwanawina the King of Barotseland, Kaunda the Prime Minister of Northern Rhodesia and Duncan Sands of the British government. The people you are talking about were not part of the deal. They are irrelevant.

  26. The proposed admin structure proposed by the westerners need not be dismissed without merit. I do not hail thence but support this system as opposed to a central system. The red tape is bound to reduce, effectiveness and efficience seem to be more attainable and a lot other merits.

    What I abhor though is any divisive tendency bordered on cessation emanating from the error of the 1964 treaty. If national unity is to be realised, we need not treat that issue lightly. Prudence is needed to take on that issue no matter the hurdles. It was made by men, some living today, and it can be redressed by men for the greater good of our posterity.

  27. So – the draft constitution is there and open for anyone to make suggestions for amendment. Some selective ignorance that cries for someone to shut up and not dialogue just because one has an opposing view. Keep them at the table and counter proposals with a decent explanation as to how BA64 is irrelevant and not just because you were raised to say so by a guy who told you all to be one happy family with him at the head uttering the first tribalist statements by a post independence leader;) Kids do not discriminate until they are taught how. No need to put your hands up but there are clearly UNIP raised children who are all grown up now, huh? BA + NR = Z

    • The Brits who controlled both NR and BA could have granted independence to both territories without bringing them together. Just like Malawi, separate from NR. Why was BA+NR a necessity? Somebody educate me!

    • Ah. Do not forget the white tribes were fighting too hence UDI 🙂

      Necessity. No. It was an impish way out. They had tried other mixes NR + SR, R + N, SR – NR = R 🙂 Left to their own devices the settlers had their own equations in mind which excluded ‘natives’ but couldn’t justify the numbers to their HQ and had failed to keep a federation together. Add to it that SR didn’t like the miners and their infernal striking plus the more liberal attitudes of their fellow NR tribesmen and took a harsher apartheid view. Infighting, mate. Infighting. We were but pawns in someone else’s chess game. Remember we were set up to be run by a company with the intent of exploiting assets not even ruled directly by the Brit govt until late in the game. Protected asset. Cough. Cough.

  28. plz lets nt bother ourselves much on ths. thy hv bn givn th chance to contribute let thm pliz. at th end th majority wl win.

  29. If I had my way on these Chiefdoms, I would abolish them. I don’t see their role in development apart from administering village justice and asking for royalties from subjects. They have stopped even doing some public health sensitisations and enforcement. Chiefs of old used to make sure that their subjects have a rack, toilet, rubbish pit and mansas (ulubansa) in villages were swept clean, through their kapasos and headmen! Nowadays villages are dirty! Houses in maize fields. All mansas are for maize fields. People grow sweet potatoes in the road! Primitivity bane. Ati malaria can be defeated imwe… Zigololo in the garden. I mean chiefs are wack!

  30. I never knew there is so much hatred in zambia….! Oh God almight,look upon your people with mercy and forgive their insults….give them a soft heart that understands and apreciates unity in diversity…!

    • God is dead! If he were alive, there would be sanity on earth. But then I could be wrong, especially if this is how intended it to be.

  32. Every human being is a tribalist, Racist, Greedy, Thief one way or the other, Actor, Unstable (a percentage of madness) , Unpredictable follws cos of the madness, the fuss is because everyone feel they come short all the time, they think if they be the manager they will benefit, there is always someone to cry foul, so spare yourselves from the insults and be wise, otherwise, you are all the same, the only difference is that you are leaning on a different tree!

  33. litunga is like sata he does not hold a press conferencence. I have listerned to queen Elizabeth and not this Aflikan who thinks he is more superior.

  34. “REPUBLIC OF ZAMBIA

    FIRST DRAFT CONSTITUTION
    of the
    REPUBLIC OF ZAMBIA”

    These are words you find on the blue book called the draft constitution.

    For one or group of individuals to include another state in this document is preposterous and ultravies the laws of Zambia.

    The frivolity with which the deligates of Western Province approach to include the chief’king’ and another state under the guise of Western province is tatamount to treason.

    These conventions are meant to discuss the contents which will be the governing principles of all the 10 provinces which make up Zambia and in no way are they meant to divide Zambia.

    Therefore, these amendments proposed by western deligates will not succeed at National conventions as no deligate worth his salt will support…

    • Oh dear! Treason? So what are you going to do to them seeing they have committed treason? Your Zambia did not come from without. Agreements were signed to bring it into being. You desrespected those Agreements and finally the chickens have come home to roost. The Barotse are arguing on a point of law and youlot seem to be running on emotions!

  35. It is the level of hatred that has characterised the dialogue in Zambia especially from the Bembas, I don’t see the reason if you hate Lozis that much why you cannot allow them to move on. Lozis will always speak out, for now dialogue still remains the solution and am sure the Lozis will try all means possible to free themselves and will one day be free.

    I get worried when I see people comment without any background information to the matters they are dealing with but based on hate.

    • It has always been the Lozi against the Bemba. Really? What do Bembas call Lozis? No name. What do Lozis call Bembas? Masholi. Now talk to me bwana, who is a hater here?

  36. This is a trick to make western province autonomus. It’s a trick they want to use to breakaway from Zambia. Ask yourselves the Lozis maybe the marjority in this part of Zambia, but there are other tribes like the Mbundas too. I think the issue of Barotse Land should be put to a referendum so that every Zambian can vote on wether to let barotse Land breaks away or remain a part of Zambia. If the marjority votes yes, then no one is to blame if they vote no then we close the chapter and then we move on.

    • You cannot have every Zambian vote on the issue of Barotseland. The question of Barotseland can only be voted on by the people of Barotseland. There’s no precedence nor international law or convention that supports the rubbish youre sprouting. honestly people like you and your Zambia government are standing on very shaky ground. If the Lozis take this issue to the International Court in the Hague, you will honestly look very stupidy. The court will simply concern itself with the Barotse Agreement. And the court will ask whether or not its been honoured. If not your ‘unitary’ nonsense is over!

  38. Happy New Year

    Our brothers and sisters in Mongu have taken a few steps backwards by coming up with unrealistic proposals that only appear to seek to divide the country than unite it.

    We hope that other Zambians can see why we have proposed for Kafue Province to be created because we cant work with the BRE. They are greedy, arrogant and stubborn for nothing.

    For those of us who are natives of the current Western Province, we firmly believe that the creation of Kafue Province is the only solution for lasting peace and unity.

    We believe that the current government has a unique opportunity to make the landmark decision of forming Kafue Province.

    Viva Kafue Province

    Viva One Zambia One Nation!!

  39. @NetStar, yours is a noxius comment. What reason do you have to purport that Bembas hate you. You are a target of public ridicule because you spew terribly horrible arguments. On many occasions you do not want to passionately debate national matters unless you narrow it down to yourselves, your king and your, your… I thought one can enjoy greater freedoms in a wider Zambia than to be confined to a tribal grouping in a small geographical compartment. By this attitude alone, you can not jump on the free spirit of Bembas and insinuate that they have hated you, for what? You call other Zambian tribes in your area as manyukunyuku while Bembas simply don’t give it a dime if you are in Bembaland! You are Zambian first and tribe is last. Wake up and be outgoing and competitive. Iyeee…

    • We call foreigners ba MWISA in Bemba. We refer to Lozis as Abaloshi. We told candidate Mugala to go ‘ku mwabo’ during the Kasama by-election that ushered in our own son Godfrey Mwamba Bwalya!

    • Ba Mutale you are a fake. BA MWISA was only applicable to colonialists, not fellow Zambians of another tribe. Probably in the case where you provoke someone and out of rage they want to blast you can they resort to such words. Normally, if you are a ” munyukunyuku” and you annoy me, I would yell at you with words like “iwe Chika!a…!”

  40. Please do not insult Lozis I think they have grounds for them to take such position.
    Imagine the commission set by our president reccommended for an independent Barotse.
    there’s more that we dont know,KK is very quiet I never heard him condemning Lozis.People wake up this issue is not a mare wake up dream.something is real with Barotse.
    However we need a united Zambia.Government negotiate with the Westerners.

  41. The Kafue Province propasal is the only way forward to solve some of the problems in Western Zambia. This proposal has been on the table since the 1940s, it is well overdue.

  42. The day Barotseland will become the only recognised region of chiefdom in Zambia that is the day that Zambia will cease to exist both spiritually and physically. The only logical thing to do is to push for all regions to have a measure (considerable) of autonomy so that they can preside over their own affairs but consistent with the republican constitution.

  43. @Kelvin D Mulanga, that is exactly what the draft constitution proposes. Decentralisation talks about elected leaders to administer provinces. But these Litunga subjects want to take over the provincial administration, by virtue of “royalty” and deny other capable people from enjoying the priviledge of provincial leadership. How selfish of the Lozis! Do they mean a Mbunda can never ever become provincial minister? Ati kamo fye hereditary succession.

    • The Draft constitution does not talk about elected leaders. The Provincial Minister will be appointed by the President. Contestants for seats in the Provincial Assembly will be restricted to specifics groups in a province such as from members of the provincial chamber of commerce or from provincial members of the Zambia Association of the handicapped. The so called Decentralization you are refering to is just plain nonsense.

    • As a Mbunda I get annoyed when Bembas like you use us to have a go at your imaginary ‘Lozis’. The Litunga is Luyi by the way.

    • There’s no reverse psychology here. No Lozi politician or person has ever declared publicly that he cannot vote for a Bemba person for the position of President. But Sata is on record of making disparaging remarks against late Emmanuel Kasonde for accepting to be under the leadership of late Arthur Wina in the National Party. Apparently a lot of Bembas on threads like this own have sworn never to vote for a Lozi.It is Bembas who feel uncomfortable when Lozis converse in their own language. Their usual retort is ‘Abalozi ukwitemwa’ (sic). Have you ever asked yourself why you lot become very emotional when HH issues a statement? You become emotional because you are tribalists. The only good none Bemba politician is a dead one like Mazoka. Thing is you rejected him when he was alive!

  45. It is foolish to call the lozi tribalist they have never ruled this country or apointed any body as minister or abbasader.just debate the BA 64 was officially publicised by Head of State. If the delelages wants to solve this problem why attack them.

  46. may i ask? i thought by now all those who advocated for this baroste thing are either too old to remember well or are dead. now we:-)see:-)20 year olds championiEven those born in4who ar 49 years cant recall well. lets stop politics of divisims. remember Rwanda started like this.

  47. @5.1 Maano you have a problem with semantics. No where in my statement did I suggest that With the Barotse issue. I am well read, For your own information, I have statutory regislation for both customary and state land.
    There I just diplomatically reserved my critical comment over the issue. The digression of the discussion was un called for and misplaced.

  48. You can take the monkey and put him in the living room but that doesn’t change him from a being a monkey. He remains a monkey in a all uncertain terms. Most if these remarks against the proposals of delegates of western province just expose the stupidity and ignorance of those criticizing. Doesn’t every province have a say in what should be included in the constitution? Rubbish Bembas you are dull, ignorant and stupid and crooked. Let every people decide what they want if it’s to be called democracy! Clearly you will never change. You are monkeys!!!

  49. It is the Barotse Agreement once again. Just honour it. You signed it. And you should respect it. With the tribal politics that have now come endemic in the country with the rise to power of the Archdevil of Bemba tribalism all I can see in front of me is strife and mayhem. May it come to pass coz it could be the cathartic moment that could change the way the country is governed!

  50. Just don’t call litunga chief or compare him to Zambian chiefs
    Just look the litunga signed the agreement. Is there any chief from other tribes signed any agreement like that? Agreement is like marriage certificate, if the other part not happy ofcurse go for divorce. Lozis or westerners with other tribe its very different case. They had their own state and very huge, not like other chiefs. Have you visited most of chiefs in Zambia and the litunga? The chiefs of other tribes in zambia still look like those ones 500 yrs ago chiefs. The litungas are very educated and civilized, they have been educated from very highly recognized university not like thechiti

  51. If we just look at the education level and experience you cant compare litunga to those mwata Kazembe, chiti mukulu etc, litunga has higher education and experience and can run a country. But kaunda has been quiet on this case. He should come out. He only comes out for advert like a boy and endorse sta for nothing.

  52. And without western zambia couldn’t be called zambia, Zambia is from Zambezi river, it seems western own everything, kaunda lied with his one zambia one nation to fool westerners, very interesting . And he is just quiet. I see 2 countries in the future

  53. Aint you guys tired of your tribal rantings? If you are so educated intelligent, wise and resourceful why have you failed to simply charm and win over all Zambians by your qualities? THERE IS SOMETHING HORRIBLY WRONG WITH YOU! Stop blaming Bembas for God’s sake. You are simply coy about Zambian life. Talk of sport, religion, politics, academia, music etc, a Bemba and Easterner are there. You? No we can’t do boxing Bembas hate us, yak! Talk of politics, Musokotwane was talking about giving a Lozi leadership on a silver plate because he is Lozi. How absurd! Mumba and Mutati from Bembaland simply competed, bared their skin, talked about ideas! Look at Chipimo, brilliant. Nawakwi and Namugala strong ladies. If one of these became something will you agree? Look, Esther Phiri did us proud…

    • How nice to see the Chindakwanda Galileo !diot completely lose it. Once idi.iots fail the test of rational argument they plunge head first into bigotry! They start attributing stuff to people who’ve never said them. Nice to see you how you and your “tribe” are running the country my friend! I am quite sure you have a lot of admirers around the world!

    • Ooh, Goncalves the secession sycophant id!ot is around to promote moribund stuff for the self serving tribesmen? Work harder my friend for your dream is gonna come true. Your brain is fixed and steeped in such useless projects… When one thinks of this issue critically, it is a no brainer as to its necessity or benefit. Just plain frustrated doomsayers wanting to pick on a group of people and accuse them of tribal conspiracy to hinder them of progress. Yes, iwe Goncalves, you are a funny pundit of tribal idiosyncratic sewage. Happy new year

  54. Aint you guys tired of your tribal rantings? If you are so educated, intelligent, wise and resourceful why have you failed to simply charm and win over all Zambians by your qualities? THERE IS SOMETHING HORRIBLY WRONG WITH YOU! Stop blaming Bembas. You are simply coy about Zambian life. Talk of sport, religion, politics, academia, music etc, a Bemba and Easterner are there. You? No, we can’t do boxing Bembas hate us, yak! Talk of politics, Musokotwane was talking about giving a Lozi leadership on a silver plate because he is Lozi. How absurd! Mumba and Mutati from Bembaland simply competed, bared their skin, talked ideas! Look at Chipimo, brilliant. Nawakwi and Namugala strong ladies. If one of these became something will you agree? Look, Esther Phiri did us proud and now Catherine…

    • So Namugala and Nawakwi are the role models where you come from? Can you tell us the names of the majority of Zambians arrested for drug trafficking and embezzlement around the world? Great achievers indeed!

  55. Aint you guys tired? If you are so educated, intelligent, wise and resourceful why have you failed to simply charm and win over all Zambians by your qualities? SOMETHING IS HORRIBLY WRONG WITH YOU! Stop blaming Bembas. You are simply coy about Zambian life. Talk of sport, religion, politics, academia, music etc, a Bemba and Easterner are there. You? No, we can’t do boxing, Bembas hate us. yak! Talk of politics, Musokotwane wanted MMD to give him leadership on a silver plate because he is Lozi. How absurd! Mumba and Mutati from Bembaland simply competed, talked ideas! Look at Chipimo, brilliant. Nawakwi and Namugala strong ladies. If any of these became something will you agree? Look, Esther Phiri did us proud and now Catherine Phiri is in it. We work and we reap, while you cry…

    • I am quite sure the Barotse would be the first to congratulate you on the earth shattering achievements of your tribe and the other tribes friendlier to your tribe. The last time I looked the issue here is about the BA1964. Wouldn’t you be much happier if the Barotse were to live as a separate country from the high achieving Bemba and Eastern tribes. Beats me that you’re still insistent on having slackers as part of very high achieving Zambians! Let them go! They are nothing! They are useless!

  56. Aint you guys tired? If you are so educated, intelligent, wise and resourceful why have you failed to simply charm and win over all Zambians by your qualities? SOMETHING IS HORRIBLY WRONG WITH YOU! Stop blaming Bembas. You are simply a coy lot. Talk of sport, religion, politics, academia, music etc, Bembas and Easterners are there. You? No, we can’t do boxing, Bembas hate us. yak! Talk of politics, Musokotwane wanted MMD to give him leadership on a silver plate because he is Lozi. Absurd! Mumba and Mutati simply competed, talked ideas! Take Chipimo, brilliant. Nawakwi and Namugala, strong ladies. If any of these became something will you agree? Look, Esther Phiri did us proud and now Catherine Phiri. We work and we reap, while you cry tribe, shame!

    • Kaunda, Chiluba and Sata only became Presidents because of the low quality citizenry in Zambia. Leaders are a reflection of the Societies they lead. It is an indictment on the country that Sata is President of Zambia. One should be questioning the sanity of people who voted for him. It is the same thing with Kaunda. He was just wrong for the country. And as long as the country is filled with people like you the journey through the wilderness will continue. What with your identification of Namugala and Nawakwi as leaders!

  57. If you are so educated, intelligent, wise and resourceful why have you failed to simply charm and win over all Zambians by your qualities? SOMETHING IS HORRIBLY WRONG WITH YOU! Stop blaming Bembas. You are simply a coy lot. Talk of sport, religion, politics, academia, music etc, Bembas and Easterners are there. You? No, we can’t do boxing, Bembas hate us. yak! Talk of politics, Musokotwane wanted MMD to give him leadership on a silver plate because he is Lozi. Absurd! Mumba and Mutati simply competed, talked ideas! Take Chipimo, brilliant. Nawakwi and Namugala, strong ladies. Look, Esther Phiri did us proud and now Catherine Phiri. We work and we reap, while you cry tribe, shame!

  58. Is BA64 still an issue to this date? I thought it was invalidated when Dr. Kaunda declared Zambia as aone Party Participatory DEMOCRACY as all the binding obligations were abrograted. Why didn’t the Litunga and his people cry over that and bring the case before international bodies as they seem eager to do today than when thank ink was still fresh on paper? This is a dead issue and we Zambians should move on in unity and ignore all the detractors. ONE ZAMBIA, ONE NATION!!

    • It is not a dead issue. If it were dead you wouldn’t be commenting on it. The Barotse Agreement was between Barotseland and Northern Rhodesia witnessed by the British. It must take two parties to invalidate a joint agreement. Kaunda was wrong that’s why the issue is not going away.

  59. and the biggest problem is zambians just look at this case small like that. when you see the litunga and his people having meetings you think they are just small like that. do you know that zambian inteligence is flooded with lozis. the litunga meetings have privacy but zambian govt no secret because lozis are all there. you send army or police to western , among them are lozis. so its very hard for zambian govt to deal with them. you go to the cabinet office starting from the security to top ,lozis are there. its just the matter of time ,lozis are just watching zambia. they will come out clear game.
    and dont even say they are lozis , its a state agreed with northern rhodesia with condtions. not just lozi . its a 2 country fight. not lozi fight . bembas you are just a tribe,period

  60. bembas you cant even think or dare to break away from zambia. you are just too far away from lozis . they are not a tribe , its a state. why do people miss this point. you cant compare litunga to very uneducated chiefs in zambia. chiti mukulu , mwata kazembe, too far . did you see even how those chiefs dress. the lozi kings are all very educated. you cant play with them

  61. No Part of Zambia will ever be broken away to form another state, that is day dreaming.

    We can have new districts, towns, cities and provinces because those are within the borders of the republic of Zambia.

    The few minority Lozis must wake up to this reality all else who risk being sidelined from top political positions because of your greediness.

    The end game is that the BRE itself risks been disbanded because of the unrealistic and treasonable offenses that are coming out from that tribal grouping.

    Who do you think will allow Litunga to install himself as the provincial ruler when there are other ethnic groups in Western Province who are more native to the region than him?

    The BRE is made up of shameless liars, tribalists and separatists all of them out of touch with…

    • I am quite sure what is been discussed here are contents of the Zambian constitution and not someone breaking away. The day you guys will get a Nkoya elected as MP in Kaoma may be then people will start taking you seriously. Induna Mutondo was no so long ago complaining of many Mbundas and Luvales in kaoma District that Nkoyas cannot have a Nkoya elected to Parliament! Who are these ‘Lozis’ you like mourning about? Is it the Alui? ‘Lozis’ are not responsible for your wretchedness!

  62. @chikwanda, all those are personal statements. And there was no tribalism mentioned in the BA64. let us deal with the BA64, it is as legal as it was in 1964. this is the issue at hand. time and efforts to destroy it have never worked so far. today, we are still with it, fighting it.

  64. eish..you guys were duped in 2011..never again will such an offer come by!!live with it..Let Unitary state remain though..

  65. Maybe a good ol’ civil war will settle this.

    The architects of this agreement was the mighty British empire as a solution to correct the wrongs of colonialism. The Barotse kingdom willingly signed the agreement (if a white man says its good it’s gotta be really good)

    The French had the power and were in position to stop the civil war in central African republic but chose to let the indigenous dook it out then rise as the protectors….we know why. We might end down that road if we are not careful.

    I admire the rich history of the kingdom. ‘We iz free now’ lose the British uniforms. I believe there is always room for compromise and respect.

  66. i dont think its a trabal issue. its an agreement. your Chief Mukumbi cant even speak english. what people are missing here is ,its not lozi ,its an agreement. you think if it was just a tribal isuue lozis could even dare to say we want to be out??? i dont think so. its like a marriage or jointventure. signed papers ,not just standing there yelling you are tribalist, you are tribalist you lozis, NO NO. In agreement, marriage, jointventure, employment contracts, its always possible to separate if the other part is not happy , nomatter what!!!!!!!!. if you have brain just dont miss it. litunga is king ,not like the chitis ,kazembes etc. those guys are just too far and too small . litunga oversees a state not area. mornachy state

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