Opposition political parties have condemned calls by Justice Minister Wynter Kabimba for African countries to reject the International Criminal Court.
MMD president Nevers Mumba says Zambia’s membership to the International Criminal Court (ICC) must be preserved.
Mr Kabimba has been quoted advocating for the African governments to reject the ICC because it was not established on good faith as it is only meant to humiliate Africa leaders.
Mr. Kabimba who was speaking his capacity as Council of African Political Parties (CAPP) president said his organization supports Kenya for pulling out of the ICC and that other African Countries should also be urged to follow suit.
Dr Mumba however notes that the concept of the ICC should be preserved because it holds accountable governments that abuse their people’s fundamental rights.
Dr. Mumba has told Qfm in an interview that the PF government is also a good candidate for the ICC because it has allegedly among other things been abusing people’s rights and using the Zambia Police Service to oppress the opposition.
He has however called for the reforming of the ICC for it to also start hearing cases of leaders from countries outside Africa such as former US President George W Bush and former British Prime Minister Tony Blair who allegedly committed war crimes during 2003 military invasion of Iraq.
And the United Party for National Development (UPND) has described as ill intended calls by CAPP president Wynter Kabimba that African governments should now start rejecting the ICC.
UPND Secretary General Winston Chibwe notes that such calls will imply that the PF wants to continue abusing its power in governing the country.
Mr. Chibwe says if the PF pushes for the withdrawal of Zambia from being a member of the ICC, it will be as bad as the decision that the previous MMD government made to remove the Abuse of Office offence from the ACC Act to suit its interests.
Worried about facing the music?
This is the reason these opposition parties are not taken seriously, i mean they are always aiming to shoot all the time so long as they see anything pf, they dont even take time to study or process the credibility or value regardless, this proves them wanting PF to fail nomatter what, for all i know i may be on different side of the seat, but if it is for the “good” of the masses, i would pat my opponent on the shoulder for a job well done. This should give us a glimps of what kind of people we might put in office, do you all my fellow bloggers see any different characteristics in their skeletons? Tom and Jerry will continue for this is the norm in Zambian politics apparently, Kabimba is right, give credit were it’s due, build a better image by being the odd one out it doesnt cost…
On this one Kabimba is 100% right because the ICC is a toothless Dog which barks at the weaker prey(African countries)and prevents real justice from taking place.
I do not know of any dictator who has been successfully indicted and prosecuted by ICC. All dictators who want to avoid harsh African punishment opt to go to the ICC where the live under very good conditions compared to when they are locked up in our jails. That’s why the Libyans want to met out their own justice on Saif Ghadafi and make sure he suffers the pain.
Kabimba please do not delay de-register Zambia now so can have the opportunity to lock you up in our filth jails for a long long long time and feed you boiled kapenta,beans and stinking cabbage.
PF your days are numbered! Start repenting now before it is too…
well said cindy.
People don’t support the ICC?
sense – we have the AU which should deal with our own rogue leaders should need arise. ICC is a white supremacist organisation bent on beating down the down trodden and non western world aligned countries. We are tired of america,britain and france running the affairs of our African continent. George bush jr is a war criminal who lied to invade iraq but has never been punished nor has his country suffered any political or economical sanctions. We Africans are waking up from our slumber,and it might seem crazy to some that we demand or dare say these things. but deep down you know i speak the truth. For crying out loud,we are fathers of civilization. 18 dynasties in Egypt alone long before the white man wrote the first known literature: The odyssey by Homer. we should not forget who we are.
Today is not just my day.
Check all my comments are sooooo bad. My apologies to all. I am not like Kabimba, when I am wrong I do back-off and reflect.
Correct me if iam wrong people. This situation here, its like a serial killer telling the courts to set him free because there is another serial killer out there killing.
WAS HE ON LEAVE. AT THIS SPEED THE MAN IS LIKELY TO CRASH.
PF NGO, GOVT. I THINK HE ALLOW CIVIL SERVANTS AND OTHER NGOS TO START POLITICS.
The match that took place in Brazzaville saw Salif Keita putting Central African Republic ahead in the 23rd. Ethiopians multiplied efforts and obtained an equalizer in the 48th through Salahdin Ahmed. Menyahel Teshome scored the last goal of the game in the 61st permitting Ethiopia to finish at the top of group A on 13 points and claiming their move in the playoffs of the 2014 World Cup qualifiers….Bravo Ethiopia
so are you saying ethiopia qualifies to be indicted at the hague court -icc.
you are lost bwana.
Watt do you expect from a politician who has never won an election?tulamyeba!
I concur. The way Ethiopia harassed us at Afcon shows they are headed for the top.
Mr. Kabimba, PLEASE do little research before speaking.
1. Neither USA nor UK are signatories of ICC;
2. ICC does not pick on African countries, i.e., Darfur and Islamic militia are in Sudan and Al-Bashir is responsible for genocide of AFRICAN CHRISTIANS in Darfur and
3. Kenya is signatory of ICC and Bush and Blair did not organize election killings in Kenya.
You know, if instead of talking RUBISH, you keep quiet, there is a slight possibility that somebody might think that you have positive IQ.
What research? In this instance, Kabimba is right! On what grounds does Bush disqualify for international crimes, because he actually did not oppress his people but people of other countries! Quite alright he was fighting the Taliban, but are you aware that they were not in Iraq but in Afghanistan?
For your own information, the UK is a signatory to the ICC and hence their leaders should be tried for the atrocities they have committed abroad! Please check ICC details once more!
All those supporting Kabimba should reflect on why they think it’s only Africans that are indicted at the ICC.
The very well documented Serbian attrocities were not in Africa and people responsible for that are/were indicted at the Hague. So that “Africans only” thing is baseless and rather short sighted. Secondly, the blatant abuse of power and killing of citizens is predominatly done in Africa when you consider that point and that is the sole purpose of the ICC. Thirdly, Tony Blair and George Bush argued for a case using UN provisions (although this was proven wrong) to “disarm” a dictator who had killed his own people. If the ICC has the mandate to try leaders who start a conflict (war) with another state, then clearly the two should be indicted. Somehow I don’t think that’s…
Kabimba, ICC awaits you come 2016, whether you vote against it or not. A cell is being prepared for you already. You belong to jail, Injustice Minister Kabimba.
Right. This man, I can’t just believe that one day Zambia was going to have such a leader. At the rate he is going, it is either he destroys PF or himself.
nevers is contradicting the opposition on this blog who are in support of that move.
PF should learn to assess situations before make blunt statements. Especially with people like Wynter Kabimba, he is very good at embarrassing Zambians on International Stage. We all know that most African Countries lag behind and abuse Power. What is PF’s condemn on the ICC case with Kenyan Leaders?? Because of PF’s Dictatorial and arrogant Motives. Let Kenya deal with their own case, who are you to start talking about other Countries?? What is your Interest? Uhuru says he will cooperate, so does Ruto his VP; He is even at ICC Head Quarters tomorrow?? Please Shut-Up and deliver the promises you made to Zambian People. Come 2016 you are Out.
Forget that it is Kabimba who said so- do you support the role of a court that only indicts Africans? Are you aware that Putin fought a war with Georgia recently? Or that Obama’s regime is financing an Egyptian army that killed thousands?
@LORD VOLDEMORT (THE DARK LORD): Don’t lie and mislead people, not only African leaders have been convicted at ICC, many other from Eastern Europe. of-course You know that our African leaders are not there with democracy. They just abuse their Powers?? write facts than lies. I am in Arab world so don’t write about the region you don’t understand. What do you know about Arab regimes?? Obama did not. it’s the Egyptian people themselves. You PF cadres are full of Lies just like your Leaders. It’s really a shame.
ba lt what moderation?
whats the difference between my post and that of #2?
you want us all to be attacking anything PF for you to stop moderating?
go to your clip entitled ‘kabimba urges……….’ and go through all comments posted.
is it not true that the majority are supporting kabimba?
I remember raising a similar topic on this blog a year ago and i found myself in the shooting range.I`m also of a similar opinion with Kabimba.The ICC is without doubt biased toward African leaders.If one looks at the number of leaders that have been indicted by the court most are Africans.Names like Bahr Abu Garda,Omar al-Bashia,Jean-Pierre Bemba,Muammar Gaddafi,Laurent Gbagbo, Germain Katanga and Uhuru Kenyatta.No wonder it doesn`t surprise me that the USA has refused to be a member because if anything they have committed(USA) more crimes against humanity in Iraq,Libya,Afghanistan and soon Syria.
The moment USA will join ICC is the moment we will see George Bush,Clinton and Obama answering charges but since not all animals are equal that won’t happen in our life time.
I also think the ICC exploits the weak and ignores the crimes committed by the powerful. George Bush, Tony Blair, Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladamir Putin etc have all committed crimes against humanity. As we speak, Barack Obama drops bombs in Pakistan and Yemen with not international authority killing hundreds if not thousands of innocent civilians (men, women and children) – but these people will NEVER EVER appear in the ICC.
Justice entails equal treatment before the law.
…and let us not forget that Europeans committed the worst crimes against humanity during Slave Trade, Colonialism etc. They don’t want even to hear us Blacks asking for compensation for their criminal acts. When Mugabe chases the white people for land for black people you people call him names. Wake up.
Clinton and Obama answering for what? These are statesmen. See how Obama is delaying to hit Assad. Please check your facts.
Tel me more about america financing egyptian army.
LT whats this moderation kansi??
You are. Of Bemba
Honestly ,who can trust wynter!if he is honest ,19:23:08 him dicspline ka GBM.PF ITS
FULL of bembas.remember wat happened to the most inteligent pf member of pariamentt(lubinda given)
Ba pf mwalikwata inkongole kuli ba Gbm,!just accept.
If you mean well to ur people why the fear of the law? Only a criminal will be afraid of a Police officer. Anything done in bad faith will be return at one time. MMD removed the abuse of Office, PF brot it bak and they are now dancing to it and it will catch up with them as well even tho now they force pipo to luk at them as Angels.
We don’t need ICC. Kabimba is bang on the money. These opposition fimo-fimo are just politicking. They should not force us to start digging out the archives. We know what MMD used to say about the ICC when people started calling for ICC investigations after police shooting of innocent defenceless Zambian citizens in Mongu, Mazabuka and Mansa. What is MMD saying about that? As for UPND, the party is untested, so infact they must argue a much stronger case because all they have is their mouth to convince us the electorate about the ICC. Personally, the ICC must go.
Good afternoon
I disagree with the opposition and see eye to eye with Kabimba on this one.
Ever since the ICC was established, we have only seen African leaders facing indictment and prosecution by the court in Hague. Just the other day, Hitler’s personal bodyguard who never even denied the crimes committed by the regime died a a free man of a natural death.
Africa needs more leaders with balls to stand up against institutions which are designed to maintain control over them. We have a duty to rule our own destiny and to continue the liberation struggle that our forefathers began.
Then you too disagree with Winter only that you want to see a white man in the dock. What about Mladic?
Hey it is not just Africans. Former Yugoslav war criminals were tried and convicted by ICC…Milosevic, etc….
Tozo, if not just Africa then we call it Third world eastern european nations according to the western Europeans.
Any way just my observation,looking at the above article,its a bit unfair for the opposition to condemn kabimba in his capacity as kabimba or justice minister or pf SG instead they should condemn the CAPP because kabimba was neither giving the position of pf,himself Nor that of the Zambian government but that of CAPP so it will just be in order for the opposition to condemn CAPP and not kabimba or pf,that’s just according to the article.
No offense, Kabimba is right on ICC, tell me, what crimes has Mugabe committed that are greater than those by George W Bush? It is a waste of time.
The ICC was so guilty that they actually had to appoint an African for the first time, what a joke!
The key is military strength, we need to start internally enriching our Uranium to become a factor!
What is wrong with;Zambia, Kenya or Africa as whole not being part of the ICC?, When the so called defenders of Human Rights or the up holders of Human dignity (USA and their Washington consensus worshipers) are not signatories, and they are the chief abusers of Human Rights… the wars in Iraq, Kabul, Vietnam and the African colonialism… cries out for justice.
Surely, if there is an international court that views all nations through the same lens, those perpetrators of the countless injustices, including the above mentioned evil acts need to be brought to book!!
Kabimba a learned person should know that the USA is not a signatory to the ICC.
What is Acc for
Just like ICC, toothless, but nevertheless they should exist as one day their teeth will grow and bite
You morron Icc not Acc
Winter Kabimba for once may be right, but his biggest problem is his approach and lack of tact when handling matters like this. What is required is “reform” not rejection. The ICC has only managed so far to convict only Africans. Check the list on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_detained_by_the_International_Criminal_Court .
These were really evil men who caused genocide, mass rapes, used children as soldiers, mass murderers etc. Assad would have fit the bill but his country is not signatory and will probably not escape the ICC. The ICC is needed for countries where the judiciary is really compromised and cant deal with the despots. Saddam and gadaffi were dealt with by their own people – what about the rest!
Ratko Mladic was extradited to the Hague on charges of crimes against Humanity in Bosinia despite being in hiding for 16years .
He was picked from serbia. Now my question is, was Mladic an African leader?
Holding Bush and Blair accountable may have moral appeal but it is devoid of any legal basis. How can the legendary mouse tie the bell around the cat’s mouse? That is the reason why leaving ICC is not necessarily an empty proposition. For the nation to move forward, it is better for the opposition to avoid inflamatory statements against government. If at all ICC was such a sound concept, how come certain great nations remained outside? It is irresponsble to smear Bush because he treats Zambia like his own nation. Blair is doing the same thing albeit in Rwanda.
Ha ha ha. Yes you are right Dr. Kaseba.
I agree with Kabimba. Well done.
Please it is not the PF it is the institution for which Kabimba is a member and president. It is the same as Mweetwa belonging to APNAC and UPND which condons corruption by recruting corrupt elements in it’s party.
Infact we have our laws that can deal with such atrocities. We do not need the ICC otherwise we would have sent Willian Banda there for maiming people in Chongwe
The ICC has been very discrimonatory. Yes the ICC is supposed to be a good institution but has been abused by the powers to be.
So Kabimba is very right on this one. Some of you are very ignorant on these matters. What has PF done to fear the ICC. Please don’t just oppose think first.
Please I’m not a cadre of any political party because I want to have an independent…
Yes ICC has been abused. Kabimba is speaking as a presidet of an institution not as PF secretary General where he is the president . The ICC must change its approach to international issues for it to be credible.
Please wake up africa. Nevers don’t just talk because you have to oppose. Think through what you say.
We do not need the ICC to deal with our problems otherwise we could have taken Willian Banda there the political advisor of UPND and former MMD cadre.
Taking William Banda to ICC for fighting with blows. I now know you don’t understand ICC’s role just like Kabimba.
He’s only saying Kenya is right. It’s not his idea! Journalism these days
On this one i can side with Mr Kabimba, check the records of the ICC all of you busy condemning.All the leaders being tried are Africans.We have people like George Bush who have killed alot of people on this planet where is the ICC?..What about the continued killing of civilians and children by US drones ,the killing of civilians by NATO where is the ICC.? This just another form of intimidation by the West and we are busy singing praises for them..I salute the free thinkers of Kenya ,they clearly demonstrated the power of a sovereign country with no external influence..God bless Africa…
I would have agreed with Kabimba if his hands were clean.
ICC may be biased, but does that remove the fact that African Dictators are brutal against their own people? That they kill and annihilate entire tribes?
Believe me, without the existence of the ICC, African Dictators would have been butchering their people with impunity. ICC is a good deterrent.”Big Brother is watching you!”.
SGT NGUDUZANI, what is the difference between a dictator killing his own people and George Bush killing other people not related to him?
Please think through before you write.Whether african dictators or Americans killing people from other nations must all face the same law full stop. We are not supporting african dictators but are all must be treated the same before the ICC.
This is where I draw the difference between GBM and Kabimba in terms of analysing issues. The best GBM can do is indorse and call easterner SLY.
Kabimba that’s the way forward…
ICC has an international mandate and will prosecute you whether you are a member or not. The same has already been issued to the Kenyan leaders. So Kabimba is completely off the mark. It is better he just shuts up.
unfortunately pulling out of ICC does nothing because ICC will still prosecute
and issue arrest warrant,ICC is very powerful and will place you on wanted list
it’s better for Kenyan man to fight his case
How many people have lost their lives due to political violence? How many people have been killed for occupying a piece of land Without any arrests made in full view of the people of Zambia? Let it befall you, then you will understand the importance of the ICC. Continue taking things political.
Africans are slowly waking up. If you think the ICC is a fair court for Africans then you must be very foolish! It’s very hard to prove to a D0G that you OWN it!
It is unfortunate that our Minister of Justice does not know how that ICC came about and clearly has not followed the Court to see that not only African criminal leaders have been brought before it. I think cause for reform and strengthening the court would make more sense than advocating for withdrawal. Honestly, this is the same as saying get rid of the current constitution and come up with some thing new. Or get rid of entire police and start afresh. A wrong leader indeed. Supporting Kenya’s genocide…is not representative of all Zambians. You should ask for permission before you make such statements. Even if acting in your own capacity, you still represent Zambians.
I support kabimba so let the stupid ,arrogant kenyans kill each other. I passionately hate kenyans and they can finnish each other for all i care.
@kavuyi. My contribution started like this, “ICC may be biased…” I suspect you have a double vision syndrome and are also paranoid, very typical of PF cadres.(Read my article again)
I didn’t even suggest that its alright for George Walker Bush to kill other people and not get punished for it. My view is that ICC must be supported by ordinary Africans as a deterrent to African dictators who may want to maim and murder their own people. I appreciate that this has happened in other regions like Serbia, but its very prevalent in Africa,that’s a fact.(Bokassa, Amin, the Tusti Hutu massacre, the Matebele land massacre by Mugabe etc)
Not long ago, an instruction was given to use live bullets to shoot at a people of a certain region in Zambia. What is that indicative of other than…
Anythng is to argue!Opositio oposites whts yr prblem?ICC has faild to arest & prosecute Tony Blair & George Bush jnr & snr.Why arguing fr tht mater.His concerns come frm failure to arest western Pressidents & Europeans.Why re thes spared?Stop arguing fr nothng.Muletu sebanya ba swaini.
I guess Milosovich was African.
Tozo, PRINCE, Leo Phiri, 142 and it’s a worry are so myopic that they cant see beyond their noses! Your complexes worry me greatly.
African govts may be weak but they are much stronger than the citizens upon whom they govern whose only voice is the opposition and civil societies, whose voices have been silenced by all powerful ruling parties.
Whose interests are being threatened by the ICC? Is it the governed (ruled) or the all-powerful ruling parties? In whose interest did the MMD remove the Abuse of Office Clause? Definitely not the ruled’s interests. You can only hate the police if you are inclined to crime. Why join Kenya? Those leaders committed crimes and should face the law like anybody else. Should the hyena which ate the goat be spared because the lion which ate the cow escaped our trap. By no means. One less is better than two still roaming.
opposition leaders you are a let down. Why should Africa always depend on the west to make decisions for us
Winter Kabimba is very right, the ICC is meant to oppress African Leaders. Abash ICC
The guilty are always afraid! Mmm, I can smell fear lol .
brian, Dada, Mo taim,cindy…..jst see the language you wanna found that it is a one person posting
Just a hypothetical thought. We abandon the ICC today, and in the foreseeable future someone orders the gassing of the troublesome Linyungandambo seccessionists in the name of preserving Zambia’s unitary nature, who can bring this leader to justice?