UNITED Party for National Development (UPND) general secretary, Tiens Kahenya has been expelled from his position and the party for activities deemed harmful to the party.
Mr Kahenya was expelled by the UPND’s national management committee (NMC) for alleged gross misconduct, insubordination and behaviour detrimental to the party interests.
This is according to an expulsion letter dated December 4, 2008, signed by UPND vice-president, Richard Kapita.
Mr Kahenya is accused of holding secret meetings to destabilise the party as well as releasing confidential information about the party to unauthorised people.
Other allegations leveled against him are that, without reasonable cause, he had been peddling malicious falsehood against the party president, Hakainde Hichilema, with the intent to bring him into disrepute.
Mr Kahenya is, among other things, accused of peddling false rumours that the party president stole proceeds from the sale of cattle donated to the party.
Mr Kapita reminded Mr Kahenya that the last national management committee meeting offered him an opportunity to substantiate the claims but he opted to keep quiet.
Mr Kapita alleged that the expelled official only spoke in clandestine meetings where he continued with the allegations.
“From the above stated matters, it is clear that you have offended the party and in the premise, NMC has no option but to expel you from your position as secretary general and from the party forthwith,” he said.
In accordance with article 70 of the party constitution, Mr Kapita said, the NMC recommends appropriate action while Mr Kahenya was free to exculpate himself over the allegations.
Times of Zambia
thats why opposition parties don’t make it. Kuyambana lyonse
the problem with our leaders is that when u have a personal disagrement with yo leader u turn to blow it in the press
The political circus continues…Zambian politics is a complete joke! It’s all a one man show and lacks any clear vision or ideology. If Sata dies tomorrow, that’s the end of PF; UPND as a national party, died with Andy Mazoka, and has now been reduced to a regional party with nothing much to offer! These jokers never cease to amaze us…..
when the centre can not hold things fall apart
If Obama can work with Gates (Bush appointee), Gen. Jim Jones (McCain supporter), Hillary Rodham Clinton (former bitter opponent)…why can’t our daft politicians learn to iron out their petty differences! the problem is that HH is too pompous and arrogant due to his wealth. UPND will never form Govt and all he does every election is diminish the chances of bigger parties like PF from forming Govt (perhaps not a bad thing after all, come to think of it).
WOW!!! I am so excited. Finaly the man has been put in his place. Viva UPND, we need progress in the nation. Cornelius shud now be careful otherwise he too wil go. Kahenya, go to the village,politics are not for u,pipo lyk u r jes in it 4 the money. we need honest pipo.
UPND, way to go, u have done the party a favour.
MAESTRO,SARAH,V.Concerpt and Sarah Jones, whats your stance before i come in though i dont support any political party?
There goes the start of falling apart of UPND. Mwebantu Tiens cant just say stuff from without, it should be probed to prove that the gentleman H.H did not steal cattle. No smoke without a fire as Tiens has been an insider. H.H man speak to the nation. What is this that you have a hand in the killing Andy Kambela Mazoka. I challenge to tell the world or else bwana we will know that mwali vansisha umunenu ati musende akapoto.
Its ok to punish errying members, UPND should wake up by choosing genuine secretary generals eg Tetamashiba used to sell the party, now this chap was doing the same. It is good you threw the chap early before 2011. Look at PF, the PF MPs decampained their leader. Please UPND flush all boys belonging to MMD and PF
6#Jane Doe, Good comments, 7#, Rashid, I personnaly was not impressed with our General Secretary, his lauguage was putting the image of our party in dismay. I did not understand how he found himself in such powerful position. In my view the party has made the right decision. We need serious leaders to take our party forward. As secretary General he failed to perfome his functions of organising the grass root among other jobs hence the poor perfomance in elections.
Well Well, keep it up.Discipline those chaps for misconduct and should learn manners and protocol in line with the UPND guided rules 2008.
Viva H H man of sober character with honesty and integrity
kwati ni nkoko
What goes round comes round, There you go, because thus your baby and you are in support if it was others you were going to condanm
#7. Rashid Jones, greetings. you shouted, “MAESTRO,SARAH,V.Concerpt and Sarah Jones, whats your stance before i come in though i dont support any political party?
” My stance is that this is good as the U-Team NMC decided to do this needful:”Mr Kahenya was expelled by the UPND’s national management committee (NMC) for alleged gross misconduct, insubordination and behaviour detrimental to the party interests. This is according to an expulsion letter dated December 4, 2008, signed by UPND vice-president, Richard Kapita.”
The good thing is “the NMC recommends appropriate action while Mr Kahenya was free to exculpate himself over the allegations.”So, let us wait and see what he does.
Chiwamina galu,if it was PF F***kers could have said a lot,anyway it doesn’t matter for TIENS because UPND is no longer a party to talk about, it died togethr with my man mazoka(M.H.S.R.I.P)Belive me HH will never rule zambia, God has already given him wealthy, presidency is also for his friends,HH has got a security firm, how much does his workers get paid, is it K 3,000,000.00 as per his campaign promise? Heaven knows.
To some extent UPND has shown that nobody is indispensable. UPND and PF are like oil and water – they cannot mix – one is too sober and the other is too wild. Their only common denominator is that both can be classied as tribal parties. Otherwise UPND is right to show us that there are no sacred cows in that party.
Ba Livingstone, You are also a regional UPND cadres. The boy HH is over drunk with his money with a DEMISING party. Politics of tribalism and regionalism will never take you in to Government. No matter what HH will never be president of this MOTHER ZAMBIA,, Ask your tribal bro to swallow his pomposity and merge with Sata, maybe he can be a VICE PRESIDENT.
presdo stealing money from the sale of cattle donated to the party!! Tiens have respect, we are not supposed to hear such statements from you,plese rest in peace……
#14 continued.
Following the above, I am happy that the U-Team uses democracy in executing its activities and this is what has happened in this Kahenya case, but the former SG TK has the right to appeal as invited in the last sentence above this one in posting #14. I a real democracy the will of the majority is followed as we have seen that this expulsion has come from the U-Team’s NMC and not any one person in the mighty U. Party. I hope this is clear, Rashid!
I am now over and out for I am preparing for my journey to Germany. In 3 weeks time or so, I will be available for unlimited comments. Thank you for your understading.
Have a blessed day you all.
13# Rashid Jones, we can not fail to support if some one is becoming big headed especially when we are trying to put our party on course no way bwana kuya bebele. Remember the general secretary is the CEO of the party we expect the best from him.
Maestrol
“Behaviour detrimental to the party interests’ is always questionable when it come to african politics coz this is not something that is spelled out in detailed terms but rather been used as a tool to remove all with oppositing party members. This is not just applicable to UPND but to all other parties in Zed, I will be greatful if you can explain to me in details and relate directly to the UPND PARTY CONSTITUTION as detrimental behaviour.
Truthfully speaking Tiens was jst spzd to be a trustee of the party not a secretary general.Now that is what is called discpline.Yes if it was PF i was going to condemn because all the positions are illegal,nobody voted for anybody for those positions.
Kahenya should report his issues o police.Stealing is a crinal offence.If he has no proof he has to apologise to the party.You bloggers must also know that its not every party that shoulf form gvt.Some parties are better off as opposition and should be allowed to exixt as such.I dont remember when liberal democrats were last in gvt in uk but they have existed ever since.They have viewd situations where they got more votes than the previous elections as progress.So here we need gvt as well as opposition to balance the equation
My stance is that whatever the case, PF(SATA)or UPND(HH) cant win the elections on thier own.They had the best opportunity in the last by elections and missed it. Therefore let the circuses in their parties continue because very soon before you realise it, we are reaching 2011 and the chaps will never beat MMD. dont forget that this is Africa and its very hard to remove the ruling party.
#17. Chitapankwa III, ask the Undereducate leader of PF to add his personal PF to the mighty UPND so that we can remain with a sober Party headed by sound men. After all, the Undereducate already said that there is no one else to groom except president HH at a rally that was held just before late President LP Mwanawasa died. The Undereducate also promised that he is yet to visit the U-Team’s offices to reciprocate on what president HH did to him. So, this awaited visit, since he promised, by the Undereducate will be a good opportunity to endorse president HH and end the PF which has failed to practice democracy so that we can remain with a serious political party.
Over and out now.
Good you behave like small dogs( puppies)
HH is behaving like Sata personalising the party. Expusion was just too much for a founder member. At least he should have just been suspended for a while.
The issue is not about HH.It is about what Tiens is alleged to have done or said and NMC has carried out its functions openly in accordance with the party constitution. Tiens is still free to challenge NMC if he has grounds of appeal though we are made to believe he failed to speak out when given chance.
For the sake of mother Zambia let us stop this HH /Sata talk and look at issues objectively. If Sata fails to work with HH or vice versa we should not force things. Their party manifestos are completely different. We do not need a marriage of convenience. Viva Zambia.
#15 Obama, our party has not died. How come PF supporters wants us to have pact. Why pact with a dead party, be realistic. Even PF is tribalist party look at the results, did PF win any seat in Southern, Western, Northwestern, Eastern provinces? only provinces where bemba is spoken ie CB, Luapula,Northern, Central & Lusaka. These provinces bemba is predominant language,hence support for PF.
#21. Luapula Fish, greetings and thanks for your call. I would like you that I am not a card carrying U-Team party member, may next year I will when I get to Zambia, nor fit to give the U-Team’s party stance.
So, I now refer you to, please, visit ww w. hakainde . com and seek for the UPND contacts there to answer your querry.
He has been expelled because of saying that UPND should hold a convetion to elect new leaders following the bad performance in the last elections period, dont beat about the bush.
#30 Maestro you are still here I though you said u are out now. interesting
Maestro
Thanx for accepting that you are not are carrying U team party member.
But I ahve always been visiting the HH site just like the Nevers mumba site.
The party constitutions is not specific about the case,for clarity sake, I will give my friends studying International Politics the article and leave them to go through the site and get their views without any bias
#31 though you are a foreigner you behave like a tipical Zambian, twisting stories. Anyway you are no better than a Zambian what else can say?.
Its ok to discipline a few insurbodinate chaps
Bare footed Traders …There you go again!!on #27. Unlike Sata HH didnt stand up on his own and fire the man. Read the Times article. Get the facts!!!The man was asked to defend himself and fail. If he is going to sell “bedroom secerets” what party does he support!!! He is just behaving badly like his brother Teta.
The truth is Kahenya was calling for a convention to elect a new President because HH has failed. Why have they expelled him if UPND is that democratic? I want all UPND cadres on this blog to justify this undemocratic action? HH is arrogant and doesn’t take advice. That’s why Patrick Chisanga left. All the founder members or late Mazoka’s inner circle have now left UPND. Lets just wait for 2011 to finish them off. Even most of those Southern Provinces MPs have issues with HH’s style they are just holding on to the party because of their parliamentary portifolios.UPND will be no more after 2011 especially if most of those experienced-late Mazoka’s Comrades-are not adopted. It’s Finito!!!
Tribal politics at its best.
why should politicians be dwelling on petty issues instead of consolidating there parties in readiness for the first approaching 2011 elections? Expelling members will never strengthen the opposition parties but weeken them. Remember PF has been divided by the MMD and i have envisaged the same knocking on UPND. Please for the sake of preserving the unity and harmony in the UPND try to revisit the decision on TIENS KAHENYA he is such a resourceful and vibrant politician.
35..Since when did calling for calling for the entrenchment of democratic processes in the party amount to insubordination? That’s dictatorship! Typical of African leadership they don’t want to be questioned. Shame on UPND…they want to hide their undemocratic tendencies under the banner of gross misconduct. Kahenya has been loyal to HH just like he was to Mazoka those of us who have interacted with the UPND top leadership know what we are talking about. HH is now feeling the heat because managing a political party especially in the Zambian scenario is no easy job. Anyway, lets wait and see how our tycoon will turn around UPND’s dwindling political fortunes. We are waiting…
People, please dont become emotional. Kahenya had it coming. Parties have got rules and UPND is no exception. It has a spokesperson and Kahenya was not it. It was becoming evident that he was striking deals behind members’ backs. He deserves it for taking people for granted.. You talk of UPND being tribal? Hah? With the exception of Given Lubinda, Pf is worse. Viva HH, Viva UPND.
Mubukwanu
hey man
are you in livingstone or Zim ,am getting worried.
#29 Village Concepts. You‘re Contradicting your self. PF didn’t get any sit in those provinces doesn’t mean he is tribal instead those are the people who were tribal for not giving him a vote. Lusaka C/B and Central when did these provinces became Bemba land.If you speak bemba doesn’t mean you re bemba.Not all bembas supported Sata and why you TONGAZ always bring issue of tribalism.
#38 KA choma 1 EVERY TIME YOU OPEN YOU MOUTH YOU THINK TRIBAL. YOU ARE A VERY TRIBAL MAN. THINK OBJECTIVELY.
#40, the UPND convention is not yet due. Kahenya as Secretary General knows this too well. Why do you like short cuts. When has your party PF ever held a convention? HH is not feeling any heat. If anything, it is people like you feeling it out of petty jealousy for the UPND leader. Of all the political leaders today, HH is a class of his own. Brilliant.
There is no way this new comer and loser Kapita can accuse Kahenya of gross misconduct,insubordination and behaviour detrimental to the party interests. In fact, even these stories of HH mismanaging party funds must be investigated because a seasoned and experienced UPND patriot like Kahenya can’t just bring it up from the blues. Before, he became secretary general Kahenya was UPND treasurer general..he looked after party funds right from inception. He was actually the late great Mazoka’s confidante. Therefore, his expulsion spells doom for UPND that I know. Who is Kapita first of all? the guy doesn’t even have influence within the party even in his own area. He is a loser!
Most of you bloggers have never been level headed when dealing with politcal issues. You are simply tribal and can easily be identified to belong to either PF or UPND. For educated people like you, this is unacceptable. Stop being disgrace graduates or undergraduates. If you come to be ojective, you will seen that between Sata and HH, HH is a lesser evil.
My view is that we wait a little bit longer maybe like Lukulu, Kahenya will reveal more.
45…Does the data am offloading about UPND on this blog indicate to you that am PF? Far from it my brother! Am actually a UPND sympathizer who has reached the cross-roads. The fact that the convention is not now doesn’t mean party officials should be gagged from reviewing the President’s performance in the last elections. Mazoka used to allow the national executive to review the elections and endorse his leadership if they want but this is not the case under the current leadership. Its only ass-likers like Kapita and small boys like Cornelius who keep singing praises to HH’s ears. Just admit HH has failed and no one in the party can see the brilliance you are yapping about.
Why do UPND supporters rush to talk attack PF when they experience problems in their party?
You can reason better than that, thats too petty
I hope the shall be a time in our politics were, people will be able to differ on principal.
#48, Understand that late Mazoka and HH are, and will never be the same. Andy is gone. Dont be in denial here. You call yourself a UPND sympathizer? No, comrade. A UPND back-stabbing sympathiser, more like. If you know that party the way some of us do, you will realise that it is a well organised party inside and outside. Very mature indeed. Thev future of Zambia lies in having at least two parties of such nature. You are now calling others names. Tell us, just what have you done for the Party?
I like HH’s personality & i wanted him to win the last election but unfortunately he lost,this is the second election he’s losing amid accusations of tribalism within the party so like before on this same blog,i reiterate the fact that UPND is not in proper shape & it is high time their was a major overhaul if they have gain popularity across the entire country.It’s high time another leader was found,maybe to show that HH is a man of integrity,he should offer to step down so that fresh elections are held but some chaps already said they endorsed him to carry on at some NEC meeting so i guess crap continues,no wonder a meeting arranged for sympathisers of UPND in London was poorly attended.
45..I know UPND politics like the back of my hand. I am not like you whose only source of data when it comes to UPND is The Post or misguided elements within the party NO! I can tell you that right now as we are debating Kahenya’s dismissal their is discomfort within the senior ranks of the party. UPND MPs and I mean gurus and educated Comrades like Hachipuka, David Matongo, Request Muntanga are breathing fire. The problem is you trust inexperienced crooks and chancers like Garry Nkombo so much. What political counsel can Garry give HH when the guy has been hopping from one party to another until he was finally favoured with the Mazabuka seat on tribal lines. Be Real!!!
All y bloggers get on FB n see nice bebs there than ukulalakafye muno…
I think expulsion was a bit too harsh for the crime he is alleged to have committed. Why wasnt he just suspended considering that he is a founding member of the party? Something certaily smells fishy here; looks like there is more to it than UPND is revealing. Could it be that he wanted to stand against the great HH for the presidency? Now how does that differ from how Dr Chishimba was almost hounded out of PF for trying to stand against the great Sata? Dictatorial tendancies are the same no matter how much you sugar-coat them. Pipo around HH might be breeding a political monster for their own personal benefits but to the detriment of his political future. We are observing you….
43# Jack, the fact that he can only win where only bemba is spoken is tribal enough.Those provinces are not bemba land but bemba language is prominent.
53…Try selling your so-called educated comrades or Gurus to the people of Zambia. You will come out with zero. I never said i trusted any of those people you mentioned (i assume we are on the same page because am getting concerned with your reasoning now). The fact is Kahenya misfired, on all cylinders infact. Parties have rules and guidlines which must be followed regardless of ones position. You are the one who needs to be real. You’ve lost the plot. Thats why i said “dont be emotional”.
51…Garry Nkombo who is HH’s confidante and highly responsible of the mess currently happening in UPND got the Mazabuka seat on tribal lines. That’s not even debatable because Garry was rejected everywhere until HH bulldozed his way and frustrated that Lozi guy Griffiths Nang’ omba. You are a strange Comrade who is leaving in denial. Even when the filth has reached the neighbours’ yard you still insist that UPND is organized inside out. The Kahenya saga has exposed your so organisation skills then..need I say more. Just admit that your man brilliant man is wrecking this potentially vibrant party PERIOD! I am not even against HH..its his leadership style I detest. UPND is ROCK BOTTOM!
The one thing i know for a fact is Tiens Kahenya(TK) was very close to the late Mazoka. Mazoka trusted TK alot. I am very surprised to hear about the statements TK has put out. That not like him at all. I do also know alot of UPND members complain alot about how HH runs the party. I actually feel sorry for HH because i wouldn’t want to be responsible for a party that was ran by the Late Mazoka. No one can measure up to him in my opinion so there are bound to be unhappy members. Secondly don’t be surprise if you hear that Bob Sichinga and Patrick Chisanga appear back in the UPND camp to challenge HH and to force a convention.
#58..Typical back-stabber you are. #59, I appreciate your comments. Thats how we deal with issues.
# 55 Sara, you sound worried, he was given chance to defend himself the man was just quite.Remember his position is that of CEO of the party. Let him challege the decision of the Management Team. Many issues could have raised which we outsiders may be not aware.This was management meeting which can not be covered by the media. I think who ever gave this story could have just mentioned few issues.
Lets continue with circuses zambians kairi its a peaceful nation.
57…Granted!Parties have rules but those same rules must be followed to the letter.Don’t apply them only when its suits you. You call a kangaroo court where you do not even give the accused chance to defend himself. How was the verdict reached because Kahenya never gave his side of the story? You are a misguided and blinded cadre. Look beyond your noise because some of us are not as GULLIBLE as most of you, who trust the MOUTH more than what it SAYS. I can’t even be emotional over this nonsense because I have nothing to lose. Am only a democrat and a realist. I am only a concerned citizen who strongly feels this nonsense has to come to an end.
Mo Ndate…We atrribute our statements from what is in the paper. If wanted change in a democratic manner why did he ask for it. The statement about him wanting this should have actually been done before the elections. Today’s article is about him selling party confidential information to the “opposition”.
Secondly, you want to talk about personalities such Gary and lable HH was character traits. Is there a factal basis for this or just hear say. Is this the forum to wash party issues that if democracy lives they should be aired within the party. UNIP was messed up when prinicipal was lost. MMD is heading that way with Teta’s outburts.
I hear this man wanted HH out since the UPND states that a president should only contest upto two presidential elections, which HH has done. Will UPND change their constitution to allow HH stand in 2011?
The truth is that almost all the expulsions from different political parties have not been democratic.The latest case is just another unique example
Hi, everyone and how is LT today?
Chills #27 wa landa mudala…..
Luapula Fish #66 you are generalizing and this is not right. Fact for Fact!!! If that is true where are you getting the basis of your opinion.
#65 That is a fair question. Can a party official possibly answer that question?
65# I believe the party is suppose to go for convention every after 5 Years, the last convention was in 2006. This year’s election was just by the way because of the vacancy caused by the death. Any reasonable rule should accomodate such issues. Constitutions are made by mortal men who can not predict the future hence it must be flexible when such issues arise.
Mo Ndate Mubukwanu in #63!!! There you go again!! What proof do you have that it was Kangaroo? Read the other papers to get a balanced view of issues.#53 is another one of your overrated opinions. Give us facts.I see #65 read the same thing I did. TK was given a chance to defend himself…
65..Good question. Can Number 60 answer please since he seems so passionate about the UPND wrangles. All you people that are UPND cadres on the blog just let us know if you want us to classify UPND in the ranks of PF because from what is coming out now I can hardly see the DIFFERENCE between PF and UPND. Its a circus…..
This expulsion as come to fast, scared of unknown, they were suppose to give him a suspension .He can’t be quit when something is burning inside. I think he was quit for some reasons. Let’s wait and see this regional Political Part what it is made of. When you have got Info people tremble cause uzaulula.
Point taken #71 and I am wondering if TK followed protocol to raise the issue and seek consensus? Or he just brought it up because he was found out to be “Judas”?
Lol
I hope you understand Zambian politics better and your party constitution. Can you explain to me the meaning of “Behaviour detrimental to the party interests” in specific terms as stated in the UPND constitution. And you also do not acknowledge that African politics are way way back to make up an efficient government coz of poor social capital among citizens .
Maestrol failed to explain and accepted that is not a UPND party strong supporter, I hope you do
66. Luapula Fish
I second your thoughts.
72..Welcome, all the arguments I have been advancing are based on the inside data I have over this Kahenya saga. If you cared to follow you will see that I even indicated at some point that I do not rely on newspapers as my source of infor on UPND issues. I am connected just know that…that’s why probably I should just rest my case because it will be very difficult for us to proceed with this debate if what I know for a fact is regarded as hear say by someone like you who relies on newspapers for infor concerning UPND. You are arguing based on what you have read and I am arguing based on what I know for a fact – That’s the difference!
Jack#75 I thought about your point. Without doing too much speculation as Mo Mubukwanu; the punishment metted was on the basis of the gravity of the accusation and if he did’nt ask for time to defend himself, his silence is an admission of guilt.
Politics can be a mudsling arena. But to discredit each other with lies that could lead to the credibilty of a person should be unacceptable. TK has done alot for UNPD (reading from the press)and party aligency is what made Grey Zulu and Mudenda great and respected men.
The Spectator in House
I missed u Man
as always Pabwatoo
Luapula Fish as always mudala ni pabwato fye…
Mo Ndate Mubukwanu so you are trying to say you have the facts? #78. Can they be proven or this insidness is how we are to make judgement of each other? Look my brother…I can not go and kill someone on the basis of inside information. Inside information even with spies has to be credible. Look at how a great man like Frm Sec of State was messed up by false inside information. Sadly, even in your arguement logic does not follow. Let have facts.
66..You are right. UPND should just stop living in denial. They are gradually becoming PF when it comes to intra-party democracy. I have humbly followed Zambian politics and I know how they expel people first and find the reason for the expulsion later. Which party constitution gives the leadership the powers of DIRECT EXPULSION. No reprimand..no suspension but just instant expulsion like you have killed the party PRESIDENT? Lets be real in our arguments because quite clearly not everything is defensible under the sky and the Kahenya case is one of those am referring to. The decision was rather too harsh for an official of his status. PERIOD!
82..That’s exactly my point I cannot continue arguing with you who lies on newspapers. I have at least given a few basic hints on what is going on in UPND right now. But you still insist on taking your myopic line of reasoning. How will you see sense if your minds is already poisoned with silly talk. You even go to great lengths of citing useless examples of Colin Powell which do not even add up to the discussion at hand. What makes you think that my inside infor is not credible? Anyway,I excuse you arrogance because neither do you know nor can you see the person you are arguing with. If you are an ardent follower of UPND politics you will recognize me the moment I gave you my real name
“If we confuse dissent with disloyalty — if we deny the right of the individual to be wrong, eccentric, unpopular, or unorthodox — if we deny the essence of racial/tribal equality — then hundreds of Zambians who are shopping about for a new allegiance will conclude that we are concerned to defend a myth and our present priviledged status. Every act that denies or limits the freedom of individuals in this country costs us the confidence of men and women who aspire to that freedom and independence of which we speak and for which our ancestors fought.” —
83# Bo Mubukwanu mwana poho yensu, the issue here has nothing to do with intra-party democracy, if some one makes a grave mistken even in companies we have summary dismisals depends with the case you have committed especially this man was a very senior party official who should have known the rules of his party. You may have more information which you are keeping to yourself.
#71 Village Concept. Thanks.
1) If UPND will bend the rule to allow HH stand in 2011, why didnt they foresee a situation where a State presidency dies.
2) This raises another question, will RB be able to stand both in 2011 and 2016 if he so wished. I thought our national constitution only allows one to be elected twice.
3) How about the MMD, did they revert to the 2 terms after the change due to 3rd Term manouvre by Sata and FTJ in 2001?
Can some one out there inform us about these 3.
Mo Ndate you say you are UNPD man. The best reform is from the inside and when the pan gets too hot…leave quietly. If TK has a point to make I personally would like to hear what he has to say. Given that he was given the opportunity to defend himself.
Gents If I insulted my father would he wait for my mother to come home and explain. Here the ruling body decided and he was a part of that. By what he did he lost the chance to reform a party I assume he loves.
#81
walikwi?
86..Point taken! You are right I have more infor which is not for this forum. Maybe let me just rest my case before I DISCLOSE more much to the annoyance of Mr. Hakainde Hichilema’s ardent supporters. But mark my words the Kahenya saga is just but one of the many misdeeds that are secretly going on in this promising party, which is in wrong hands. Am Out and Gone!
Hey Mubukwanu and then like, what do you expect UPND to do when a senior party member errs? Just leave the chap alone, no discipline? Nothing? If that happens what message will that action send to the rest of the members? May be you should ask yourselve, was the party constitution followed in metting out the punishment? If the consititution was not followed then you may be justified for outbursts! At least from the Post article, the chap was given a chance to prove his allegations and heopted to keep quiet!
what does the UNPD constitution state? about Terms of office of “el presidente?”
89. Man kunde
Lyashi ilitali mudala, am even about to run…
I did say to my collegues in UPND that if HH contests the by-election and loses, the party heavy weights would question his suitability as party preseidential candidate before 2011. I know Mr. Kahenya very well from the days of Mazoka. He is a very loyal and hard working man but he may have raised the questions I raised and HH is just trying to defend his poor position at the moment due to his poor judgement. No one planned LPM’s death and there ws no need to waste resources on a fight you knew you could never win. HH must be more intelligent than Sata and could have helped Zambia if he stayed awy from the by-election. Leave mr. Kahenya and respect the ahrd work he did for the party or else!
87# UK-ZED, Thanks for your questions. If I may interprete the clause which you are refering to as standing for 2 terms, it refers to 2 terms of five years after the party has gone for convention.The Party is still running within mandate of first 5 years, this mandate will elapse in year 2011 in which the party can hold convention to choose the leaders inclunding the president.So the issue you are raising is not even an issue. As for RB I can not answer for him but one thing for sure MMD may adopt him to stand in 2011,going by what is happening in MMD. Chiluba ruled for 2 terms and that was enough as per contitution. Parties can change their rules depending on what they want.
91# Wanzelu, Ulina NZelu keep it up! 94# the wiseman, what you are saying there is no wisdom, every election is atest for any serious party to participate. Think of Heritage Party, democracy is expensive. HH has been in politacal battle field for 2 years only and you expect him to win. Think of King Cobra who has been there since 2001. The man will stand in 2011. Think of the President of Senegal MR Wade how many times did he lose before he became president of Senagal?
Walasa V-concept (#95). I don’t really understand people like Mubukwanu! The party constitution is clear, you get elected for two party terms (the republican presidency candidature is a sponsorship by the party), it doesn’t specify the number of times a canditate can be sponsored within his/her party mandate.
97..You can’t understand me because you no nothing. Not with UPND…there are specification on sponsoring party candidates.
#98, tell us then what those specifications are!!
99…That’s the agony of arguing without facts. You now want me to educate you after you have exposed your ignorance. Just continue arguing…..since you know better.
99…Wanzelu…nzelu zilikuti manje Bwana mwaonekela. Kambani timvele kaili muziba….
#95 Village Concept. Thanks. I have leant from you – that it is 2 party terms following a convention.
#97 I still wonder about RB’s position in 2011 and 2016, assuming MMD adopted him. Doent this bring us back to FTJ’s 3rd Term bid where though the MMD constitution was manipulated to allow him, yet the national constitution barred him.
This makes me wonder whether RB will be eligible in 2016. Gentlemen please educate me. Forgive my ignorance. I am aready learning from you.
#100, I have specified my facts (#97). You can keep hiding yours. Typical example of certain category of people I know, hiding information even when it’s not necessary!
#102, RB will still be eligible for MMD presidency in 2016 but will not be eligible for republican presidency in 2016. Mind you, you can be a party president and the party sponsors somebody else for republican presidency.
1)Do we have MMD supporters here who cal tell us whether the party constitution is as Chiluba & Sata left it. How many terms does the party president hold. I know FTJ and Sata changed it from the 2 years, enshrined to cap wamuyayaya of KK days.
Gentlemen, what parties do inside can reflect on what they do when they come into power. If they have no regard for constitutions, they may not regard our national constitution when they are in power. Look at Sata and FTJ’s 3rd term. Is it strange that people still wonder whether PF has a constitution. Charity begins at home.
2)PF supporters, what is the party’s stand on length of tenure for your president?
3)How about Heritage, FDD etc?
102…RB is still safe for 2011 ONLY if the MMD give him the mandate at the national convention. The party constitution term limit is strictly TWO consecutive terms for an individual. RB is has not had two consecutive terms. In fact, he is just finishing LPM’s final term. So he is still eligible even for 2016 if he will be sound I guess.
#104 Wanzelu. Thanks.
I am very glad that at least we are assured we will have a different president in 2016! Long live our national constitution. No more wamuyayaya.
107..Hold on a minute. RB is not yet the MMD party President he is only a Trustee. So if the MMD national convention elects him in readiness for the 2011 elections then that’s when his term as party President starts according to the MMD constitution. Mind you, the constitution stipulates that its two consecutive terms. So he would have served one term after 2011 elections and remain with another one. Therefore, if he is power hungry we will have an old old old President in 2016.
Mubukwanu (#106) I think you’ve lost it dear! RB’s current term is still counted as one term as far as the zambian constitution is concerned. RB is NOT JUST finishing LPM’s term! That’s the reason why we had elections bwana!!!
109… Am talking about the MMD constitution and not Republican constitution Bwana. Maybe that’s where I have lost it if you say so!
#108, refer to my earlier posting (#104), you may educate yourself!!! Your reasoning (108) is crap bwana!!
Hello men, UPND can not work with PF. Expecially SATA as president. if PF they want to work with upnd let HH be president and sata vice president. I know is not possible but this is the reality on the ground. If this does not work that way Banda will win election in 2011. People are saying not sata, if by mess of god sata president, HH vice president, still banda will win the elections. If HH president there is chance for them to win with a help of sata. people of SOUTHERN province still believe sata is like chiluba who brought suffering to his own people.
#108, #109 Mubukwanu and Wanzelu. Thanks for your info. You guys are great.
#104 Wanzelu, given how selfish and power hungry our politicians are, can they really be party president yet allow someone else to stand for State President. I wonder. They all want to be president, otherwise some of them would have merged by now. Too much ego.
RB can not stand in 2016 his two term will end if he wins in 2011. No third term for republican contitution. I hope we have settled Kahenya’s case. The matter is a party issue which outsiders may not understand it, this issue is like marriage issue more details are keept in bedroom.[Board room]
Hachigubu Hachihaha in trouble as UPND tempers flare up!!! As we predicted, the disintergration has begun. How many UPND MPs campaigned with HH during the recent elections? Its not Tens alone, there is discontent in UPND, many more problems are looming!!!
# True Blue(MMD?) It is (normalu)for parties to shake where there people with different thinking. One thing for sure Mr kahenya was very sure UPND was forming govt from the were he was talking during campaign period he might have been dissapointed and used strong words against his party. It health to have people with different opinions. Even in true blue we have seen more trouble. Actually Teta, Kapanji $ Shakafu are facing charges against their party MMD for talking party isses in public.
#76.Luapula Fish, you wrote “Maestrol failed to explain and accepted that is not a UPND party strong supporter,I hope you do”.I feel you are behaving in an unbecoming manner.I did not fail.I just referred you to people who are qualified to help you. I do not like speculating and indulging or encroaching myself in matters that do not concern me.Since,I am not a U-Team member,I am not fit to issue statements on behalf of the UPND as a party.Your behaviour you are showing is what has caused Zambia not to develop since anyone you meet wants to help you with something he is not in charge of.U go to the NRC office to ask how you can get a Passport & person you find there insists he will get it 4u.
I have had issues with the way our political parties are run in this country.The only time when we had a party/movement that carried the aspirations of the people was then MMD in the 1990’s.After the 1990/1991 elections we have had selfish people who are so greedy that instead of them convincing us the eletorate ,they prefer internal elimination of those percieved to be threats to thier ascendacy to the top.Case in mind here is Sata (a jonny come lately into MMD FROM UNIP)Lubinda who jumped ship at the last minute,Teta same the list is so long.I just hope this is not the case with this UPND man.Leaders should sale themselves to the electorate without fear of internal elimination.
upnd is no more. its so sad. hh cannot make it. he just does not have that “thing” which makes a leader. the “yes” men surrounding him are interested only in his money. goodbye upnd
Both HH and Sata are selfish.HH has never praised the President for any thing good Mwanawasa did.He always critised the late President for no apperent reason.PF is also regional party.By the way lubinda is not a Lozi as many think.He is a Philipino.Look at his face properly.Does he like a lozi.Obama is more an African than Lubinda.Kahenya is a proper Zambian but he does not believe in HH,s adiaolgy of hate.HH and Kaponya President are the same.
Those who drink, we can meet at Holy wood City. Take care of yourselves and drink responsibly like i do and GOD bless you more especially Baby c, Anonymous, Maestro, V.concerpt,Sarah, Sarah jones, Chewe,Spectator,Lol,free market and the worm. i sign off
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121. your flag Rashid Jones, thanks very much. B blessed too.
zambians must start thinking of their future in terms of leadership.
many of us left zambia not because we wanted to but time came for us to give service to those who need our service. The problem in our country is tribal, regional politics which killed everything which was introduced by Chiluba. We have to be more economic centred country in terms of finding a leader than their tribes or regions. This is how Banda became a president because late mwanawasa wanted lesser vice president forgetting life is short. today is your president from retirement.
We shall always continue to fight while RB continue to enjoy. I mean he has power and Small girl for wife. what more…. Shame on UPND and HH
HH and his days are numbered… He has entagled and drawn himself in an ocean of misery…. His Glory days are over!!!!
The debate has made very interesting reading.Whether or not the expulsion of TK is justifiable is moot.I can only add to those who have said that this is the last straw for UPND putting it in its final stages of total collapse.TK was right when he said they need to have a convention, for all his wealth and intellect HH is not a politician period.He has failed to sale his party to zambians.If he is as wise as his supporters claim let him resign so that UPND can adequately prepare for 2011 remember they must start now if they are to mount a meaningful challenge waiting for 5 years to elapse will be too late.
126…Thanks for that concise and intellectual summation of the debate. You are a Voice of Reason for sure and not the UPND hardliners I faced just when we started this debate. It always pays to talk last because by then one would have educated himself to what is prevailing. Not some colleagues who talk first…screaming the loudest only to ask the person seated next to them whether they made sense in their contributions. I thought when one is making sense they know it. You are a great and analytical mind…much respect.
UPND nimagalu maningi, useless tongas
Anyway I do not blame certain people its there nature to criticise even if they have no information. Upnd has a constitution they do not wake up from the blues to make suggestions. I like their stance on issues, they do not comments on issues of ignorance whereby instead of someone to ask for information from the source you just criticise for you to be educated. Kahenya looks humble but he is someone who can accept to be used by anyone and he is very difficult to understand, It is easy to deal with Tetamashimba than with Kahenya because Teta can spit out what is in his mind or head unlike Kahenya. And I feel his leaving will help the party a lot.
I am not Tonga nor a upnd supporter but I like getting information from the source before I put my comment. If your memories are still sharp, upnd was founded in North-western province, and was mostly funded by Mazoka and his death left a big vacuum because he could not accept call from people who were telling him to call a convention to elect a successsor when his health was going worse. HH is a good man, intelligent and has a vision for the country and he can move the country even better that Mazoka because he understands life well, and those who have managed to interract with him can bare witness.
#cont. HH is someone who sets targets for whatever he does and he knows what to do at every particular time, but he is somehow an introvet and not a politician. We know he is a good manager and someone who hates poverty by nature. I have tried secretly to find out more about him when I was working for one of his companies, the man is outstanding and to be given a chance to lead he can be a good manager for our economy and a good president zambia has ever had. He is a hard working man and very helpful. Can you imagine sponsoring 50 people to school from his own pocket in our society and age, even presidents fail to help their own nieces.
What Kahenya was doing was like a family mamber who is having problems at home with family members and instead of being part of the solution to that problem you go out to spread it with people who are not even part of that family and it keeps eating you up. These are what we call unprincipled politicians and wherever he goes no one will trust him because of his past record. They say what you have done on a bad one you will do it also on a good one. Thats why I will never trust these politicians because they like moving where it is warm.
Upnd is with HH for five years thats what their constitution says if you do not understand request for a copy of one from them to read like what I have done myself. Actually upnd is a party which follows the constitution well. You remember on the last converntion they had many people wanted them to push their vice president to be the president of the party after the death of Mazoka, but they followed their constitution which says anyone can contest for presidency as long as you have been a paid up member of the party for two years. Anyway, I respect these guys with their principles.
#Mubukwanu, do not criticise for the sake of it, if you want to know and understand things it’s easy go to upnd secretariat in Rhodes park and ask for a copy of their constitution. I can see you are displaying too much ignorance here. Though they education is expensive for you, you have abused your tried ignorance.
Mubukwanu, It seems you are one of those people who were paying Tiens Kahenya to destroy upnd, now you have lost they have expelled him sorry my dear. Why are you people full of hate in your hearts that you cannot forgive. Atleast HH has tried to unit the party, if it was saki the party could have been dead by now because Saki is full of hate, hh has been tolarating Kahenya even when people were telling him about his behaviour. Saki hates Sata and HH what kind of person are you. Mubukwanu here you are again you want the party to break the constitution which demands that a president should rule for 5 years, even if it’s love of power.
You people you cannot deny the people of zambia a good leader like hh just because of your hate for him. For me I love hh’s leadership and I do not care about his tribe because Zambia is for all. What hh is going to do for zambia will bring glory to the whole nation, outsiders do not know this tribe thing you talk about. I keep saying am a Northerner but I like this young man and his wisdom. Some of you people who want to rule zed you have never done anything for yourselves in life and you want to get rich with our tax payers money, forget. HH is for us come 2011. Upnd keep that man we love him as people of the North we want to revamp our agriculture.
Awe kwena #Mubukwanu waya sana you hate this man HH. After all he is not the one who expelled him it’s Richard Kapita. Just recrut another apy to spy on upnd Kahenya is out now guys. He is caught sorry. I am for MMD but I do not hate other parties the way Mubukwanu hates HH and Sata. Be cool man take some water and a deep beath.
Thanks Chomba, it’s nice to know that there are poeple out there who think rationally like you.
There was nothing wrong with the strategy to field HH in the last elections. He needed to build momentum for 2011. I am sure he did not expect to win but he has sold himself to the Zambian people. Come 2011 a good number of people who voted MMD will switch to HH. Most urban voters who supported PF in the last election will also switch to HH in 2011 because they will consider him as the best person to handle the economic problems that will result from the aftermath of the current recession affecting western countries
I am surprised today, for a change we have reasonable people like Zeggy, Chomba on the blog. Forget about Mubukwanu, he’s a lost sheep! Or is it a goat!
Wow…that is great Chomba (though you know my stand on opinions) but your is rational than the emotion that Mo Ndate was dispelling, in the sense that you have connected what was reported and what you know rationally. Thank you!!! One Zed One Nation!!!
Finally betheren, we thank you for all your comments especially, Wanzelu,Zeggy, chomba & chisenga you guys you are great keep it up.
No. 135 Chomba; You hate Saki so much that out of the blue you bring him up in your comments. What was the relationship that needed you to bring up Saki with your blog No. 135? Oh, and decide whether you want to blog as Chomba or Chisenga.
No. 139 Zeggy; are you sure HH built up momentum rather than lost momentum? look at the results again.
News is that UPND did not follow their constitution after all and they are having an emergency meeting to try and cover their tracks tomorrow (Sunday). You will have to correct all your previous blogs now.
People watch this move, upnd did better this time than the 2006 elections (UDA). This time they did better as a single party. Anyway I rest my case, thank Mubukwanu for your contribution Chisenga and Chomba are my names. Viva HH Abashi poverty.
Some of you who want poverty remain with these politicians, as for me and my Northerners we are allergic to poverty and therefore we join hands as a nation with our beloved young vibrant gentleman HH. Thanks all of you who have managed to make use of the keyboard to blog on this nice topic, I love you all including Mubukwanu because for us HH people we love and cherish peace, but full of action and not making noise like empty tins. Zambians do not make a mistake this time 2011 HH is our man.
No 129 Chomba; Did you know that UPND Constitution says that top leaders can only be expelled by two thirds secret ballot of NMC and this was not done. UPND therefore does not follow its own Constitution. And whatever happened to natural justice of giving someone chance to exculpate themselves before action is taken?
CHOMBA ALTER-EGO #143…Mo Ndate Mubukwanu suffers from Enisha metality…What party has Saki got? Is he a leftist or right? One minute he is MMD next he hates them and now he wants to be part of RB? Come on…eni sha…make up your mind???? Do any of these guys have any policial prinicple? or is it Nicheklelo chabe?
I always see a big jocker in HH.Its difficult to differentiate him from the late Chama Chakomboko,he knows that he cannot be the presaident of this country but he keeps on wasting his money and time for us Zambians.He is the only leader who does not kn ow where he is coming from and where he is going.UPND needs to wake up and find a serious leader who is capable of taking the party forward.This jocker you call HH surely failed to fit in the shoes of the late hero Mazoka(MHSRIP).
Michael is not the best to rule this country even if those misguided post repoters try to paint his image.zambians shud be real and be objective,tribal thinking is rather detrimental,bloggres be real…….