THE Immigration Department has maintained that it will not renew the work permit of a Nigerian pastor in-charge for Winners’ Chapel in Lusaka Victor Femi Adeniji following reports of his verbal abuse against church members.
Chief Immigration Officer Anderson Phiri said the department would not renew pastor Adeniji’s work permit because of his continued reported misconduct.
In an interview yesterday, Mr Phiri said the department had received many complaints over Pastor Adeniji’s behaviour, which prompted it to reject his application to renew his work permit.
“I can confirm we have refused to renew his work permit because of the reported abusive language and conduct to church members.
“This is not acceptable because when people come to Zambia they have to do things correctly but if he uses bad language on the locals, we shall also not renew his work permit,” he said.
Mr Phiri advised members of the Winners’ Chapel to consider engaging another pastor because the department would not renew pastor Adeniji work permit again.
On Sunday, tempers flared and confusion reigned at Winner’s Chapel in Lusaka’s Libala Township when placard-carrying congregants demonstrated against the Immigration Department’s refusal to renew the work permit for pastor Adeniji.
The congregants who accused some of the members of the church of being behind the development, demanded that the Immigration Department immediately renews the pastor’s work permit.
[Times of Zambia]
Who is this Adeniji 499 thief to cause us trouble?? Do we really need some Nigerian thief to masquarrade as a Pastor here dont we ave enough alleged men of God among ourselves who can step in and collect the tithe, after all these are all businessmen.
Immigration Department, you have my support, do not listen to these fanatical lot!!!
Immigration and your bosses you have touched an anointed man of god and have done God’s prophet harm. Wait and see what will begin happening to you. How could you listen to lies more than truth? The pastor was in trouble because of his sympath towards mmd, which was also not any crime. Sata and his government are very vindictive of anyone who never supported them. You will not be in power forever and you too shall be hunted like you are doing to other innocent people.
IWE KIKOLO @2, ARE YOU A NIGERIAN? WHO ARE YOU TO START CURSING ZAMBIANS FOR REJECTING A NIGERIAN MAFIA?
What type of god do you serve who is just about vengence ?
i totally pity these brainwashed chaps. Anointed man of god my a$$!
Imwe sure someone please Lord Jesus Save our Pente brothers and sisters, they have been so brainwashed that they cant clearly see the love of God anymore! Please Lord open their eyes and hearts so that they may truly see that you want them to be happy and free and you are not ZRA to be collecting Taxes from their already over Taxed incomes. Lord hear my Prayer!
By the way iwe kikolo where was your man of God getting the money to show sympathy to MMD from- your tithe tefyo?- buti mulifipubafye mwe!
there is nothing to wait and see nothing will happen these pastors are just preying on weak, insecure, ignoramus people.
If he is a man of God, he will be vindicated. But for now, let him go back home. We will continue to praise God in his absence. Its not like he is our only gateway!
Surely, are those guys at Losers Chapel telling us that by now they have not found someone local to evangelise to them? This is very shameful that after so many years in existence, you guys cant find a local leader to lead you. Be careful with these foreign pastors, be proud to be Zambian and get a local man of God to lead you.
What an insult how can you call the temple of God a loser’s chapel.You are cursed!
Nigerians are here for business. Most of these churches running in sleepy Zambia are actually personal businesses for the Nigerians. Law and order are required and so Immigration are protecting Zambia. Good job Immigration department, don’t succumb. What man of God Kikolo? #2
Work permit denied Period.Govt does not actually need to explain reasons.So you placard carrying “men of gold” stop the nonsense and go back and praise or sorry,worship.
Some people are so brain washed..what man of God, aint we all…hes just doing organised Tamanga..well done immigration…Zambians lets wake up from wonderland..!!
Wow…Zambia is truly a strange place. It’s the only country were an individual can be deported on mere complaints without someone having to go and prove his innocence in court. What are our courts for? the Chief whatever is so embarrassing and unprofessional. You need to investigate such issues and exhaust all routes before deporting someone or denying him a permit. What kind of country are we creating? Or should he become a Catholic priest? Shame on you.
I don’t know this pastor, but that’s not how you deal with such diplomatic issues. Is it because Mr. Mpobo was rejected as a diplomat to Nigeria? Common we are smarter than that…
Can you honestly deport someone on insults? or what you call, verbal abuse. Are we serious? How do we define “verbal abuse?” Can you honestly believe one can continue being a church member where they are verbally abused by a pastor? Why not go to another church? what Law is the Chief Immigration Officer using? This is pathetic… I am ashamed to be Zambian at this moment. I can’t associate myself with such behaviour. Someone needs to go back for refresher courses or be fired.
please take your ugly wahala face to fight the people bombing churches in your country ooooooo we have enough 419 pastors in zambia to include 9iga imports oooo, look at your face only your mama can look at it, remove it from this l beg, before l send fleas to desend on your wifes nyash
You dimwit – The immigration department does not the court to make a decision on whether to grant someone a visa or not. This guy’s visa has expired and based on the reports received so far the immigration have found him not to be of good character and therefore not needed in the country. Its the same in the US where you live too.
In countries like Botswana if u use bad language even on a small kid u r deported, who is he not to be deported. There are so many people who can lead a congregation. He doesnt need to go to courts of law, for what? After all there are more than 50 million in people in Nigeria as compared to 12 million Zambians, let him go and preach to them.
Nigerians cannot be trusted is the guy really a pastor. Do we need to import a pastor just like chinese bricklayers and welders. Those demostrating use to steal and eat with him and they fear they will suffer
Its low minded people like you that cause trouble in he world. Nigerians can be trusted!
Even if Pastor Victor goes it wont be a Zambian taking over. This is how winners operate. The church also has Zambian Pastors operating in other countries in the same Capacity its a shame that Zambia chooses to behave this way. having said that the church deacons have lodged an appeal with immigrations bosses, the Man of God will be vindicated you wait and see.
Even if Pastor Victor goes it wont be a Zambian taking over, and Immigration have confirmed that they don’t have a problem with this. The church also has Zambian Pastors operating in other countries in the same Capacity its a shame that Zambia chooses to behave this way. having said that the church deacons have lodged an appeal with immigration departments at the Ministry of home affairs. The evidence against the pastor is based on heresay and the Man of God will be vindicated you wait and see.
He has not been deported but denied a renewal of his permit. Any country in the world is at liberty to give or deny a foreigner working permit. Why is it a crime in Zambia? Sure Zambians you are so dull creatures to be controlled by foreginers.
Human rights Defender #7 and #8, lets stick to the facts, that is where we get it wrong. This guys has not been deported, it is his work permit which has not been renewed after it expired. As an exparte pastor, his residence permit or visa depends on renewal of his contract, so at the moment he may even have a few days remaining for his stay in Zambia.
So he has not been deported and refusing to renew his work permit requires no court order or somethign to that effect, period. I really dont this you even need an expatriate pastor, losers chapel!!!!
Careful how you handle this matter, that pastor may become the next president of Nigeria, you know these things……..kekeke
Adeniji who?
Zambia,as i know it, cannot be short of men & women of God to take over from this paster if his permit is not renewed. Its good to hear that Zambians also preach in other countries in the same capacity as Adeniji but surely, if he verbally abuses natives there the authorities would one day react in the manner they would deem fit.
Imwe ba LT,always move with current affairs,the position has been changed to Director General from Chief immigration officer,and this Phiri is acting.
What is up with the question marks??? The one who typed this article must have really been drunk on the new year. As for this Pastor from Nigeria, we do not need crooks from that country, spreading their pandemic globally.
Bishop David oyedepo slaped a girl in church.
kekeke ati epakuti Holy Ghost fire apone! lol Namwikala mule tamba? Awe kwena mwe Lesa intervene on behalf of the least of our brothers and sisters aba ba Pente! they need your deliverance!
Just engage Nevers Mumba or Dan Pule. I believe they have a richer CV in “Man of God” profession.
God doesnt use rocks to reach human beings he uses human beings. Thats why the desciples were sent out to preach the gospel. I pray that the readers of this site will have an encounter with God and that the holy spirit will lose them from the bitterness in their hearts.
@lady, I certainly agree with you that God uses human beings. He appoints such people from among themselves Acts 6:1-7. As a believer, can you tell me from scripture where it is said that churches should be headed by pastors? Or that pastors must be appointed by certain earthly authority? These are the questions The Gambino failed to answer. Why should Christians depend on one man to teach them for the rest of their life when they have the Holy Spirit to teach them? Why should pastors be foreign? What is wrong with the local ones? What Bible does the pastor read that is different from the one you read? Wake up @Lady. You do not know what you are supporting. Please get back to me.
@# 8 AND 9 Please we expect you to understand English. The fake pastor has not been deported only a work permit has not been renewed. He can live without working in Zambia but the moment he does any kind of work we shall not waste time in deporting him. should you have any mafunso contact my office.
Its a bunch of thieving digrauntled ex members who were caught out and cautioned some ran away.about the millions they have been stealing for years.
like an accountant who stole 70 million and she is one of those who have been telling lies about the pastor. one of them is even a married senior member ana benda vikumo chifukwa cho nyapsa magelo mu church. uchinje mudala uzafa infa yo ipa. Mulungu a za kunyokola
Thank you ever so much Mr Anderson Phiri for seeing sense and rejecting this so called ‘MAN OF GOD who is just a mafia. bless you Zambia .
I believe there enough anointed men and women of God in Zambia to carry on the work. Let this Naira Loving Man return to his country and preach to all those people who are bombing Christian Churches in Jos, Nigeria!
What if he dies, does it mean all those people who carried placards will follow him to the grave? Give me a break!
Let the bussinessman broda go back to nugeria.
If the allegations are true, the govt is right not to renew the permit. If the allegations are false, the Lord will vindicate him and help him renew the permit.
He cant go to Nigeria because he stole money from one commanders of the Islamic fundementalist called boko haram
Deport him simple, our govt has the right to deport unwanted people, just send him packing
l know 419 is hard in nigeria as they have too many 419 pastors like him, but as de 9ija saying goes na bena smo ting ooo, broda want to chop zed mone ooo, deport now
it,s no easy ooooooooo
@21 Bishop Oyedepo slapped a girl in church??? Why wasnt the guy arrested on assault charges? And the whole church kept quiet?? Poverty – guys let us have some dignity please I beg.
#8-9, you should not jump into a discussion with half knowledge. Learn to read and analyse. A work permit always expires, then it is either renewed or denied without any court involvement. Also, if you allow a foreigner to insult your fellow Zambians in the name of God, which God is that? #12-13 If the appointments of pastors are always foreign, can’t you smell an economic rat? Some one is using “church planting” to rake in forex from Nigerian “pastors” posted abroad. How much do you know Nigerians @ LADY. Again, if the man of God has been here that long and has failed to prepare a local person to take over, then, he is not worth having.
Govt pls investigate most of these nigerian pastors are fake.A zambian cannot be allowed to head a church in nigeria.But how come we allow them here.If he wants to stay then let him work under someone like the law is in nigeria.we have enough pastors hunting for jobs
by the way a work permit is not a right.its a priveledge given at the goverments discretion
@LADY, I am sorry to say that all I can in some of the members of the church is spiritual immaturity and possible intellectual blindness on the activities of Nigerian pastors. Wake up @LADY. One of your members failed to answer simple scriptural questions. I agree with you that hate must not be condoned but ask your self, are all these people wrong? I seriously recommend that you get a copy of THE TITHING DILEMMA AND THE TRIUMPHS OF LOVE. It will greatly assist you to understand the world around you. God has His own pastors who are simple and humble among you. But if one is imposed upon you by the appointing authority some where else, Read 2 Peter 2:1-21. Pastors are making business out of you. You have no say over such pastors since they are answerable to the appointing authority not you.
A work permit is not a Right mwe fipuba imwe.You dont need a reason to refuse.Deport the bastard.
#10, PASTORS WIFE. THERE ARE MORE THAN 150MILLION PIPO IN NIGERIA AND NOT 50 MILLION. BUT THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION. AND BY THE WAY CAN YOU CONFIRM TO ME/US ABOUT BOTSWANA HAVING BANNED THE FORMATION OF NEW CHURCHES IN ORDER TO SERVE THEIR CITIZNES FROM THESE CONMEN WHO COMING TO SOUTHERN AFRICA IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES AND COLLECTING TITHES. TITHES WERE PART OF THE MOSAIC LAWS BUT INVALIDATED BY THE DEATH OF JESUS TO SERVE MANKIND.
Please put this as/shoe on the plane back to niger.
IF THE ALLEGATIONS ARE TRUE THEN IT IS A GREAT DETERRENCE TO WOULD BE SCOFFERS OF ZAMBIA’S GOODWILL…as for the Winners Chapel membership, what happened to your faith? Why resort to demos when you can pray WITHOUT CEASING for a miracle to happen. After all, he that is in you is greater than he that is in the world. So why grumble…Pray that God’s will prevails….but it is clear you all think God’s will is to have that pastor back…pray all the more for God’s will to be revealed to you and that’s what that pastor used to teach you not so?
No. 9 (Human Rights Defender), you’re asking which law the authorities are using. It is the Immigration and Deportation Act No. 18 of 2010. In fact section 34 provides for revocation of permits. Paragraph (e) states that The Director-General of Immigration may, by notice
in writing, revoke any permit issued under this Act if the holder “is likely to be a danger to peace and good order in Zambia.” Therefore, if the complaints from Winners Chapel are likely to be a danger to peace and good order in the judgment of the Director General could have even revoked the permit which is not the case here. However, in this case the permit was not just renewed. The Act in section 10 allows for an appeals procedure after making a decision, under this Act, which adversely affects a person…
No. 9 (Human Rights Defender), you don’t seem to know the law and yet you want to defend people’s rights. The Immigration and Deportation Act, 2010 in its preamble points out the need for a human rights based approach so don’t think the Immigration Officers do not know what they are doing. It is better to have facts before you launch at attack on the authorities because the pastor had a way of redress but the Immigration department is also conferred with powers within the provisions of the Act. In fact the department works within the principle that a foreign should be skilled and qualified and that he should not deprive a citizen of employment…so it is possible that Winners Chapel can find another pastor to fill the void without the department being prejudiced…I rest my case.
Next should be pastor david brown of christ embassy.he chews the girls in the church like its part of his pastoral emoluments.the church knows but they are ndwi!one day a married woman slept at his place.poor husband cant say anything because the wife was with the man of God and touch not Gods anointed.
Most of the foreign pastors posted all over the world are just forex collectors on behalf of their crafty “Christian coated” wolves. They are instructed to collect as much as they can even from the poor whom Christ has instructed genuine believers to look after. Nothing of what they collect goes towards the needy while the so called pastor shamelessly spoils himself in over abundant luxury. Not even the rich members of those churches, including the Christ embassy want to associate themselves with the poor. Check your stand you blind souls, and seek to know the light. This is what Jesus said; “Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you compass seas and land to make one proselyte and when he is made you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves (Matt.23:15).
If you are infatuated by miracles, read Matt,7:21-23. The scripture tells of men who will say: “Lord , Lord, did we not prophesy, cast demons and do wonderful works in your name? But the answer : “Then I shall profess unto them; I never knew you:depart from me, ye that work iniquity” So, not all miracles done in Christ’s name are of Christ. Open your hearts and eyes and seek the truth. The real winner is one who believes before they can see, neither does the preacher need to be well-dressed. The Lord uses ordinary people to preach His word, not the sophisticated extortioners. Christ cares about the poor and the needy. Do not be blinded by the miracles.
The qualification of a deacon who is lower than a pastor requires that they are above reproach. This does not seem to be the case with the Nigerian Pastor.. going by the news. However, knowing our Nigerian colleagues.. their culture is different from the Zambian one.Their survival instinct knows no bounds. I believe home affairs has been able to do some homework and independent investigations.
@Yazanda,
I never failed to answer your question and here is your answer. I worship God and follow Jesus Christ, not the Pastor. I depend and rely on the word of God, which is the teaching of Winners Chapel. The Pastor is simply a shepard of the flock. Read Ephesians Chapter 4, especially verse 11-12, but be courteous of verse 14.
The church (ministry) is the Body of Christ, and there should be a shepard in form of Bishops, Pastors, apostles. Also read Jeremiah 3:15. God is a God of order, no wonder further instructions are given in 1 Timothy 3:1-16. So my brother if I may ask do you belong to any church?
Yes brother, primarily, I belong to the universal church whose head is the Lord Jesus Christ. Also, I am part of the flock in a lock meeting with many elders, all on the same level who acknowledge the Lordship of Christ as the chief Shepherd. In that small local church, gifts have been identified and people are given the freedom to exercise their gifts as the Lord has given them. We hold Bible studies where everyone would share and questions are asked and answered from scriptures. We encourage the spiritual growth of believers so that all may know the Lord more and more. We have elders and deacons and all are answerable primarily to the Lord and to the flock in general. I must admit that we are all well catered for. Read: THE TITHING DILEMMA AND THE TRIUMPHS OF LOVE. You will be helped
@ Kc and Mark
are you related to the witch, Bishop Oyedepo slapped in Church, you seem to be so offended
Poor gullible Zambians, there is no Nigerian who is a real Pastor, they are all frauds and God is my witness!
@The Gambino,
I can see that you really need to grow in the things of the Lord. The way you are mixing things is testimony. My question was very simple. Just show me a scripture that permits churches to be headed by A PASTOR. The Bible allows the appointing of ELDERS or BISHOPS in every place, not an elder or a bishop in any form or shape or title. The Bible clearly states that in every place the elders, certainly more than one, must be appointed from among the congregation and must have specific spiritual qualifications which are noticed and appreciated by the people among whom they serve. The Bible leaves no room for importing or imposing a foreign pastor. You are mixing the gifts the Lord brings to a local church.
I am persuaded to believe that your church has no TEACHERS (many) APOSTLES (many), Prophets (many), EVANGELISTS (many) but have one Pastor instead of more than one. The purpose of such gifts is the perfecting of the saints in any local church, for the work of the ministry, for the deifying the body of Christ. The end result is for all to come to unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the stature of the fullness of Christ. All these gifts must be employed in order to achieve this. No one person would claim to have all these alone. Believe it or not, it does not surprise me that the very thing you would like to avoid in verse 14 has already happened because those gifts that are given to ordinary believers have been hijacked by one man- the pastor.
@The Gambino
If you are true Zambian and a believer, you will spare your fellow believers from further exploitation and extortion. Please read my earlier postings. Read Eph.4:11-15 and see whether the ministry of your lone pastor meets these. There is need for spiritual maturity, brother.
@50, Thank you Lord. Where have you read that witches must be slapped in church? Why should they be? How did they know she was a witch? This is religion gone wrong, and pastors behaving badly. Where there are spirit-gifted teachers and pastors and evangelists in a congregation, coupled with the fear of the Lord, such things would not take place.
Well done Immigration, i am loving this story. That pastor need to hit the road back to Nigeria so that he can help fix those problem of daily killing. I don’t even know much those people where in need of a Nigerian pastor of all the pastors in the World.
That’s why i stopped going to church more than 20 years ago.
dont be foolish, you were born alone and will die alone. forget about what others say or do. look up to God’s guidance and you will see that life is but a rosy one.
The problem is that most bloggers are non believers because the because the contributions made do not befits Christians, except a few like, Ice_Road_Trucker, Lady, Abakwasu, Yazanda and Gambino.
We live in a Global village and hatred for Nigerians won’t take us anywhere, some of you are actually employed or benefiting from Nigerians through Access Bank, Eco Bank and Dangote’s Companies which are in Zambia.
@Yazanda
You are now running away from the earlier arguments we had that you are just a believer and God does not recognise Church. Am explaining from the scripture but since you are too emotional and just trying to preach falsehood. After labouring so much with your rantings and outbursts I still ask your were its written in the bible that God does not recognise Churches and Pastors are not to lead Churches?
The Government needs to investigate further from both parties, these anonymous complaints are dangerous and if the were grieved why didn’t he leave the Church and form another one or join another. On the other hand, what if another Nigerian or a Zambian Pastor takes over and problem continues? This Church has been in Zambia for a very long time and on evangelism I envy them, as Christians we have lagged behind in bringing salvation.
I salute the former church leadership who have been dragged in the mad but the current church leadership. Their silence is not and should never be taken as a sign of weakness, it is maturity and respect they have for the Church they have laboured to build. As for these excited and ignorant new members of the church and young pastors, i can only say that you are not Christians but Religious Holigans. Please if you push the former leaders too far, they are ready to tabulate a catalogue of all terrible things going on such as Divide and Rule, Maliciousness, Deceipt, Manupulation and Lies. Jesus must be crying when he sees the level of lies, deceipt, manupulation and malice being exhibited in Winners Chapel now. I
you are right this is hooliganism i have never seen of the highest order, am one of the founding members and i have never seen such acts, my spirit is saddened with these happenings actually and i need us to refocus and examine ourselves as to whether we are practicing Christianity or religion, if it is religion then i agree with a great philosophy who said that ‘Religion is the Opium of the People’. People stop thinking straight and are easily misled. Actually last Wednesday when church members were being coaxed into signing a petition, a young woman who didn’t want to part of same was attacked by Church members who accused her of not being in support of pastor Victor.
I agree with Gambino, i have been a member of Winners Chapel since inception and i have seen members of the church become cadres instead of children of God, where the doings of God are being attributed to Man and less to God. My fellow winners Congregants, let God decide the matter and lets not condone this nonsense of protests, fighting in the media and so on as it is tarnishing Gods name. We need to learn and hide the word of God in our hearts and not be completely be dependent on Man. God knows what is done in the Dark, and he shall surely prevail on this matter. I know Rachael personally and i believe she is not the devil being portrayed here, she is just a woman who is not blinded by spiritual lies and is not afraid to speak out.
yazanda, it seems you are well vested in the bible scriptures by the way you are hammering your fellow bloggers here. that church, universal church, is it the same contravertiall one at kafue round about? the perceived haven of satanists? answer me!
#62 Mature,Denominations bear so many names. Some are Roman catholics, or Anglicans, or SDA or UCZ or Winners Chapel, Or Christ’s Embessy or indeed Universal Church. These are names given by founding fathers to their congregations. Therefore the Universal church you are talking about is simply carrying a label of the Universal church. In fact it is a counterfeit of the true Universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ to which every believer in Jesus belongs. It does not matter where you are or where you worship, if you are born again, saved and have had your sins forgiven by the Lord who died to take away your sins on the cross, then you belong to the universal Church of Jesus Christ.You are known by Him as now you have become the child of God (Joh1:12). Or you are condemned (John3:17, 36).
@Yazanda, you still haven’t answered my simple question!
All of you questioning the Immigration dept if you are ideed christians must repent.NO WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY WE MUST DISOBEY THE AUTHORITIES.The dept has all the authority to do so .They are not encouraging you to sin.That spirit you are displaying is thte spiritof Korah and Tobiah.Are you telling me that after 45 years Zambia can not produce pastors who can lead such ministiries?Boyswana has taken the lead to scritinize all those brief case pastors who are after people’s tithes.They are encouraging Batswana to be in the forefront.The Zambia immigation Dept must scrutinize
All of you questioning the Immigration dept if you are ideed christians must repent.NO WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY WE MUST DISOBEY THE AUTHORITIES.The dept has all the authority to do so .They are not encouraging you to sin.That spirit you are displaying is the destructive aand rebellious spiritof Korah and Tobiah.Are you telling me that after 45 years Zambia can not produce pastors who can lead such ministiries?Botswana has taken the lead in scrutinizing all those brief case pastors who are after people’s tithes.Christ Embassy has been ordered to spend most of the money raised from tithes and selling Rhapsodies to support local communities instead sending all the money to Nigeria.The Zambian govt. must do likewise.
@ Gambino
See my reply @58. If you look at the ref. you gave, you will notice that all those people mentioned there are put there by God and not by man. Secondly, they are all on the same level. Thirdly, they are part of the flock. Fourthly, they all belong to the local church. No one is imported. So if you cannot see these differences then I do not know the kind of Bible you read. There is nowhere in the scriptures where it is said that churches must be headed by a man e.g. a pastor. If that is what you think, go and ask your pastor. again, God does not recognise any denomination, no. If you cannot believe this go and ask your pastor. If he is genuine, he will agree with me. If he does not, he is the one spreading falsehood. Lastly, you will never find the Winners chapel in haven period.
@ Gambino
All you will see are only those who have been saved by grace and washed in the blood of the lamb, the Lord Jesus as preached by Peter, Paul, John, James, Jude and Philip, the Lord’s apostles. Not the gospel of prosperity, and extortion taught by paid pastors who have no right to be called pastors at all. Therefore, I am not surprised that you can display such degree of spiritual immaturity in the things of the Lord. I would love to have indepth Bible studies with you brother. I am sure that my explanation is simple enough for all to understand except you. May the Lord help you to grow. It is the responsibility of the local ELDERS appointed from among the flock to manage the local church, not the pastor, let alone the imported one.
@ Gambino continued…
Otherwise show me proper well documented scripture to counter this. Go back to Eph.4:11-14. None of these people is mandated to be leader or head. Read it again. In contrast I would like you to look at the qualifications of an ELDER in 1Tim3:1-7. One of the qualifications is that the elder must have a good report even from outsiders, that is people outside the local church. Do these things apply when choosing your pastors? I regret to say that many pastors are described in 1Tim4:1-3, 2Pet.2:1-21. who are making business out of very much blinded people. PLEASE READ THE SCRIPTURES NOT NIV BUT KJV. You need to be in a proper ans serious Bible believing and Bible studying fellowship or you will always be made merchandise (business). I hope you will ponder over these.
Engage me, Iam just wasting my bibilical knowledge wth the chipolopolo and Andrew Kamanga
@ Yazanda,
firstly let me answer your sayings which you have put in my mouth: I didn’t say there is wnners chapel in heaven, am hearing it from you that there are congregations in heaven and Winners is not one of them. Secondly I use KJV bible and it is the ONLY version used in Winners, that last time I used NIV is when I became born again. Thirdly, a Pastor wether Zambian or not is a calling and where God has placed him that is it, wether you call it imported let it suit you.
@Yazanda,
Coming to the issue of Pastors, to some extent you are right and some extent wrong. Christ is the Head of the Church. A Pastor is a spiritual head of the Church and Elders/Deacons are the overall head of the Church and a Pastor should be accountable to the Elders. The bible in Jeremiah 3:15 says ”and I shall give you pastors according to my heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding”. The function of a Pastor is to be the guardian of the spiritual welfare of the flock in the church. Read Luke10:3 and Acts 20:29 warns of wolves and the shepherd protects the sheep. Therefore, the Shepard (Pastor) is the one who protects the flock from these wolves.
I still maintain what EPH 4:11-12 says that the 5 offices mentioned ie, these are leaders of the Church for
@ The Gambino, having followed your discussion with Yazanda, I agree with Yazanda. The idea that a pastor is the spiritual leader of the church is not in the scriptures. Eph.3:11-12 is talking about the five gifts which the Lord who descended and the ascended gives to ordinary believers including yourself. The gifts do not make anyone any man more special than others.They are not offices. Only Elders (bishops or overseers) and deacons hold offices 1Tim3:1. If the pastor is the spiritual leader of the church, where do you place the Lord? The pastoral calling must be used in line and along the other 4 gifts in the church, not alone and not above other gifts, let alone above the flock. You are mixing things brother.
@The Gambino, My friend felt compelled to help you understand. Jer.3:15 has been fulfilled in Eph.3:11-12 and the reason is explained. But the gift of a pastor must not overshadow other gifts at all. As a calling, there must be no junior callings like assistant, or senior pastors and you see some of them going on leave. This has been hijacked and twisted to suit those who want to look special. Together, elders of a local church make a formidable group of shepherds to defend the flock, which one man may find difficult to do. Brother, the there are other gifts which are just as important as the 5 as found in 1Cor.12:1-11. The key verse is 7. Is it possible that all these gifts can be found in one man? How can the church be effective when other members of the body are not allowed to function.
@72-73 Yazanda
I have never seen the difference before. Now I do. So the Lord has given us pastors among the congregation? Not the one who stands in front? So, who appoints elders? Please reply
Yes the Lord has given us gifted pastors. These pastors may not necessarily stand in front to preach but their work is easily noticed. They are the ones who attend to the needs of the flock spiritually, materially and emotionally. They are quick to spot a troubled soul and move in to find out what is troubling them and do something about it. Those are the true gifted pastors because they find delight in doing this things. They can even smell a broken heart heart miles away and make a difference. Sadly some so called pastors have been reported to have cared about the well being of some of the flocks in their congregations. In many cases very few care to do that. Elders chosen by the flock are answerable to the flock, those choosen by the pastor are answerable to the pastor, the authority.
Sadly some so called pastors have been reported not to care about the well being of some of the flocks in their congregations. In many cases very few care to do that. On the issue of elders chosen by the flock are answerable to the flock, those choosen by the pastor are answerable to the pastor, the appointing authority. In the latter case questioning the appointing authority is a sackable offence and the enmity that ensues thereafter is an imaginable, leading to divisions at times.
@Yazanda,
That is why a real Church should have a Pastor or Bishop as head and a body of Elders and Deacons. The PASTOR SPIRITUAL HEAD OF THE CHURCH, no wonder the bible a in JEREMIAH 23:1-2 admonishes some Pastors, who destroy the flock as they are the ones who feeds the flock.
@Yazanda,
You are even lying as a Christian, what will people think of us Christians. You agree with Yazanda and you are Yazanda. You are confusing us.
@ The Gambino, what you are advancing is a human creation, supported by the creation of the division between the laity and the clegy which was not originally the case. scripturally, the work of bishops is different from that of the the pastor.Let me once again remind you that bishops need specific qualifications to became one of the elders while the present day pastor needs a qualification from a either a bible school or from a theological college to be employed as one. The bishop must be apt to teach, given to hospitality, a husband of one wife and so on, qualifications that a pastor does not need to possess. Jer.23:1-2 is talking about false pastors, a situation so prevalent today. the true pastors are those I have explained to Zodwa above.
@ Gambino, We need very spiritual mature elders who are biblically alert to head the churches in order to protect the flock from false teachers and false pastors Jer. 23 is warning about. You might have noticed that academic pastors’ performance is different from that of the spirit gifted ones. Look at the area of love, care and compassion. Academic pastors have very little heart for this while the biblical pastors have both the heart and the time for such. I am sure you will agree with me.
@Yazanda,
That I agree with you and that’s why am very courteous of false Pastors warned of in Jeremiah, and I believe the Man of God, Pastor Victor is not. He has simply caused upheavals in Kingdom of darkness and this is the persecution, as a born again follower of Jesus Christ of Nazareth and I worship my Living and Most high God, I comforted by Mathew 5:10-12
True indeed, only God Himself the righteous judge knows. Hope we shall meet again over the scriptures.
you naija haters ,you stay in your country to pass unfair comments.how many of you have ever seen a nigerian let alone duped by one. you hear what some europeans say and then amplify it. how much do you even have to attract dupes.the whole of your gdp is lesser than one major city in nigeria. you are lazy un innovative reclusive poor. with your type and your foul language the black man will remain for ever backward.what can you ever do? if not for the chinese south africans indians and lately nigerians? you better wake up this century is for people who can think design develop innovate and take risks. except the kenyans i have not seen it in east africa
Wow,yazanda nd gambino,intresting of u.am a winner myself and wil never change.my advise to u all is that “lets mind the way we refer these me of God.u dnt call them names and expect to get away with it,u myt jst atract a curse bkz its only God who knws if they are fake”.past victor remains my spiritual father.
Please touch not the annointed one of the Lord and do my prophet no harm.The evil deeds we do against men of God will lead us into tears and sorrows some day,watch your tongues people please.
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God himself will respond on this matter, it will be so loud that just like the jews acknowledged Jesus to be a man of God after cricifiction i.e the events sorounding his crucifiction and death, when jesus could not argue like the man of God, so shall the unveiling of God arm in this matter be witnessed.Woe unto this son of perdition through whom this was done it would have been better if he ware not born