Is the Gift of Land to the Republican President a Moral or Legal Issue? – JCTR

1. It is immoral, and illegal.

   Lungu’s salary is not enough to be buying land everywhere.

   Where is he getting the money from?

   • There is NOTHING wrong the President has done.
     Morally he has done NOTHING wrong

     He has been a gift, you want him to tell everyone? Which law?

     You are pathetic if you dont agree with me.

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • This is the problem when you have a President that doesn’t have a clear position on anything. So even issues that he may be guided on principle people are never sure. So that leaves the law or morality. On Moral grounds it is difficult to tell where Lungu stands we have the Woman he swindled, his nonchalant approach to the fire engines, indifference to audior general report and now Medical stores scum etc. so that only leaves legal to our rescue … oh! and need I mention that Legal experts are still debating if Presido has any restrictions on Gifts received. We are now at the Mercy of God and Lungu cares less

   • He is a thief Chakolwa Chagwa Lungu…lol

   • Morality is concerned with personal values and vary from person to person while legality is the system of rules which a particular countries recognizes which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties. Plenty of such things which are legal but immoral according to my set of morals. While society prevents unethical actions through laws but rarely makes legal provisions against inaction.
     Not helping a dying accident victim on the road.
     Some will argue – Prostitution (which is legal in only certain areas).
     Although others might say: Two consenting adults, what is the problem?
     Some will argue – Abortion, because the fetus is human.
     *In ECLs case, the constitution allows him (legal) to receive gifts equally the African morals allows one to receive gifts (moral) from a King/Chief…

   • CONT’D
     *In ECLs case, the constitution allows him (legal) to receive gifts equally the African morals allows one to receive gifts (moral) from a King/Chief or anyone as refusing a gift is considered a taboo, whilst the West “may” consider it” immoral” as it breaks code of conduct and is unethical if you are holding an office*.

   • See below the the U.S. practice regarding gifts;
     According to a document from the Congressional Research Service gifts from foreign governments aren’t actually property of the president. The document states: ‘A tangible gift of more than minimal value accepted for reasons of protocol or courtesy may not be kept as a personal gift, however, but is considered accepted on behalf of and property of the United States, and in the case of such a gift for the President or the President’s family, is handled by the National Archives and Records Administration’.
     After a gift has been accepted it is stored in the National Archives while they are in-office. Once their term has ended the collection moves to a Presidential Library. Occasionally a president may not want to part with a particular…

   • Occasionally a president may not want to part with a particular item and they are given the opportunity to purchase it back at market value.
     When gifts aren’t bought, they’re considered property of the United States and are cataloged by the National Archives and Records Administration. From there, many of the pieces are eventually included in a presidential library museum collection.

   • Don’t call it a “gift.” Stop entangling eSwatini in this. Zambia has had so many presidents. Which of them did Swaziland ever give land as a gift? A country as small as eSwatini, can hardly afford such a gesture. Clearly there is more to this than meets the eye. Dig on.

   • ……and surely, is jerry a lawyer. I think he was trained in a gutter!

   • It is unethical and was so disappointed with Dora as a Journalist herself to justify corruption and Immoral acts. Lungu can use the $3.9 to invest in Zambia so that Zambians can benefit. So what will he do with that mansion in Swaziland? It’s wrong and should be ashamed of himself. What he did is what breeds corruption.

2. Is it a theological or worldly issue? The President claims to be a Christian. In your position, you as theologians have not even appealed or made reference to The Bible which both you and him believe in.

   • Christianity and Politics don’t mix

     Your soul was bought by Chiluba if you believe otherwise.

     You need to go out a lot more, you appear mildly backwards

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Thanks Mushota. I have no inferiority complex unlike you. You rightly say Christianity and politics don’t mix. Why then is the a Christian organisation in the name of Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection commenting on this issue. I doubt your field of study. You are the one who is living in the past by holding on to meaningless titles like “BB2014,2016”. Get a life!

   • Why then is the a Christian organisation in the name of Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection commenting on this issue…..

     You are so 5tupid its not even funny

     Here is the answer, because anyone can go and register any organisation they want.

     In the UK there is an organisation called ‘Black Movement’ that doesnt mean the UK government are happy that it has been registerred by the company house does it?

     I think you are mentally you and we are different levels.

     You talk about meaningless titles? They are meaningless to you, but NOT to me.

     It is meaningless for me to wearings to you, but not meaningless to me?

     Do you get me?

     What is WRONG with some Zambians – oh deal

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Your rantings are below my level.

3. The person at the helm of ACC is a morally wrong choice to start with, how many of you even know who he is.

   • There is no such a thing as ‘someone at the helm being a morally wrong choice’ either you are not very clever constructing sentences or you do not understand what morality entails.

     When you call yourself dreamboi, it implies you have nothing to offer, even as a nickname that’s just so gross.

     I forgive you- we are on different levels

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

4. World leaders are not allowed to keep gifts bcuz it might corrupt them to give contracts and preferential treatment to their gift givers.Public policy driven by private gifts does not bring legal/ ethical leadership.

   • Shut up, you don’t know what you are talking about

     Go and find a job now

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Mushota fuseke. Be constructive for once.

5. Lungu was given land by Inyatsi Construction as an inducement bribe for the lucrative government contracts the company has received from the same Lungu. That is corruption any day of the week. The government of Swaziland already refuted claims that King Mswati gave the land to Lungu..

   Please stop skirting around the issue and call it for what it is: corruption! You are asking too much of Lungu to expect him to address the nation over this obvious corruption issue when he is the main culprit, the chief corrupt. All he does is send his spineless and unprincipled cadres with no integrity like B R Mumbai to do the denial for him and on his behalf. The man is hoping the issue will go away and die a natural death with the passing of time, just like many other corruption scandals he’s been…

   • No No No, *diots like you who believe what you just typed make sad reading.

     Keep your tail between your legs and admire the hard work president Lungu is doing on behalf of all Zambians who entrusted them with the mandate to 2021

     You just don get it do you?

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Mushota trying hard to draw fire…

   • Mushota did you just insult me? I’m amazed and a little surprised as I mostly ignore your comments that always off target. Anyway you have the right to speak even though I believe you are wrong… you know deep down your heart that Lungu is corrupt to the core. I can see that you are also desperate for attention… how sad!

   • Alternatives, you do well to ignore me, as I only respond to people that do not ignore me.

     Listen, I am the seeker of justice and the truth, President Lungu will be vindicated he has done nothing wrong.

     Trust me, I have NEVER been wrong

     Have a great day

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

6. ….The man is hoping the issue will go away and die a natural death with the passing of time, just like many other corruption scandals he’s been implicated in.

   • I am afraid you are wrong, probably also wrong that you Dad is your real father.

     Listen, President Lungu has not responded denied or otherwise given anything more than what you have read in the media.

     He should not be judged by deeds that no implication on what he was mandated to do when you elected him

     Stopping throwing stones at him and be a patriot

     Adore and respect your president.

     You worry me

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Mushota, please stop hallucinating and insulting other people’s parents you don’t even know of. I know you are desperate for attention but I think you know that you are crossing the line when you say `probably also wrong that you (sic) Dad is your real father.‘. I probably should ignore you because I know that it’s this kind of attention you crave for but I’m going to call you out when you go too far. Please stay civil and defend your corrupt master Lungu before I sink to your level and unleash fire and fury on you.

     By the way you like calling people’s English language and grammar, I have to say yours is just as pathetic in your comment here.

   • I did cross a line, I wholeheartedly apologies

     I hope you find it within you to forgive me there

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • Mushota, glad you have apologised… your apology is accepted. Cheers!

   • Mushota this is nauseating: “Stopping throwing stones….”

7. Legally, there’s no law that forbids ormprevents sitting president to receive gifts either within or outside the country. However, it is morally wrong as it compromises your moral fibre in reprimanding the giver. The president’s handlers should have dwelt on this point and ask him to decline the gift.
   Presidents world over should be striving to be above reproach and remain afloat even in deeper waters also learn to swim against the current in turbulent periods. Most presidents have began well but along the way make shipwreck of life due to corruption of power.

   • Your English grammar is terrible and doesnt make sense.

     Next time stick to simple words

     Handlers should have refused?, What are you talking about? LT readers like this man shows exactly what I said beforehand, some Zambians on here inept.

     Here is one

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • “Your English grammar is terrible and doesnt make sense.” “some Zambians on here inept”…………….this coming from someone who is an expert in grammar.

   • I am NOT an expert – I call a sword a sword

     When you see an error with me its because I am human too.

     That shouldn’t stop you criticizing me, you are very backwards

     You live in Kalingalinga? so dull,

     No one is a master of English, not even me or your Mum, that shouldn’t stop you criticizing one when you see an error

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

8. Meant to write in Line 1 ‘or prevents’

   • Oh Give up- no one cares you numpty

     Thanks

     BB2014,2016

9. In other countries, leaders resign over such scandals but in our country there is too much docility….this issue will simply be relegated on to the heap of Lungu’s other scandals…he will simply remain quiet like nothing happened as there are no more markets to torch so as to distract citizens. These selfsame people like Lazy Lungu are the first praying loudly in church and dancing

   • In other countries morons like you get muzzled.
     But then again you talk a lot more nonsense than sense, so I will give you that

     But then again, you completely prove what you have always don’t for close to 10 years that you believe in your own waste from your bowels.

     Your criticism of our President doesn’t say anything more than, the fact that you are a critic worth ignoring. You jst dont like him do you.

     Guess what he will remain at the helm up to 2026

     Clearly you have nothing to offer, so shut up for the 000th time because you words dont mean ANYTHING

     You will learn to love President Lungu, whether you like it or not.

     I demand you respect the great work President Lungu is doing if you want us to entertain you on this platform. You have been warned…

   • Thanks

     BB2014,2016

   • viva Mushota and long live tell them these UPND sycophants again viva Mushota and long live

   • In other countries bigots like Gay Gay b!tch who want to troll on everyone because of misogynistic political bitterness would be kicked in the a$$ for for extraneous comments.Also their tribal god HH would have resigned on political parlance or moral grounds so that he can retain the confidence but hey that is impossible with fanatics like Gay Gay b!itch ready to lick their god’s butter on the butt whilst he punctures his rectum.

   • Mushoata is a childish troll seeking attention she may have never received from her parents. She’s mostly clueless, and writes on 3rd grade level. I usually ignore her, but she seems extra waked up today. She needs to be put in her place, lest she thinks her empty rants are making sense to anyone. And to you Fwanya, not everyone who is critical of Lungu is a UPND. You don’t have to belong to a political party to be patriotic. What’s wrong with you? And how simple minded can you be to think Mushota is saying anything of substance, other than making up in childish insults what she lacks in intelligence? Shame of you Fwanya.

   • @LIE – DETECTOR ..That I doubt if you are lie detector (probably a gay gay detector) bcoz use of polygraphy has no scientific validity since it is not a scientific procedure.Fact is HH is a shameless 5 five times loser who should resign on moral fiber.

10. Me I regret giving a goat to Kaunda in the 80s

    • Oh your shouldn’t Sir, Always take pride in the decision you make.

      Have a great day

      thanks

      BB2014,2016

11. Presidents receive gifts. Is it the amount of the gift that mattters or what? I beg to differ because i keep seeing presidents being given gifts.

    • Denkede, you and I are cut from the same cloth.

      Good question, watch people ignore when you have raised a very intelligent question.

      Well done

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • Yes, presideAccording to a document from the Congressional Research Service gifts from foreign governments aren’t actually property of the president. The document states: ‘A tangible gift of more than minimal value accepted for reasons of protocol or courtesy may not be kept as a personal gift, however, but is considered accepted on behalf of and property of the United States, and in the case of such a gift for the President or the President’s family, is handled by the National Archives and Records Administration’.
      After a gift has been accepted it is stored in the National Archives while they are in-office. Once their term has ended the collection moves to a Presidential Library. nts do receive gifts by virtue of the office they occupy. Refusing gifts could be embarrassing to the…

    • There are guidelines regarding such gifts.
      Here is the practice in the US: According to a document from the Congressional Research Service gifts from foreign governments aren’t actually property of the president. The document states: ‘A tangible gift of more than minimal value accepted for reasons of protocol or courtesy may not be kept as a personal gift, however, but is considered accepted on behalf of and property of the United States, and in the case of such a gift for the President or the President’s family, is handled by the National Archives and Records Administration’.
      After a gift has been accepted it is stored in the National Archives while they are in-office. Once their term has ended the collection moves to a Presidential Library.

    • Continued—–Occasionally a president may not want to part with a particular item and they are given the opportunity to purchase it back at market value.
      When gifts aren’t bought, they’re considered property of the United States and are cataloged by the National Archives and Records Administration. From there, many of the pieces are eventually included in a presidential library museum collection.

    • Yes, presidents do receive gifts by virtue of the office they occupy. Refusing gifts could be embarrassing to the donor. However, countries have guidelines for such gifts.

12. Morality is concerned with personal values and vary from person to person while legality is the system of rules which a particular countries recognizes which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties. Plenty of such things which are legal but immoral according to my set of morals. While society prevents unethical actions through laws but rarely makes legal provisions against inaction.
    Not helping a dying accident victim on the road.
    Some will argue – Prostitution (which is legal in only certain areas).
    Although others might say: Two consenting adults, what is the problem?
    Some will argue – Abortion, because the fetus is human.
    *In ECLs case, the constitutions allows him (legal) to receive gifts equally the African morals allows one to receive gifts (moral) from a King/Chief…

    • CONT’D…

      *In ECLs case, the constitution allows him (legal) to receive gifts equally the African morals allows one to receive gifts (moral) from a King/Chief or anyone as refusing a gift is considered a taboo, whilst the West “may” consider it” immoral” as it breaks code of conduct and is unethical if you are holding an office*.

    • Great points – I wouldnt disagree with you.

      You have explained that as well, essentially you are insinuating that President Lungu was right to accept the gift because it came from someone in Africa and not someone from the west as refusing to accept that would have been a taboo?

      I have learnt something – quiet honestly I don’t know what else to say there

      It is your prerogative to see things your way- well done.

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • Thanks Mushota great that PHD student is learning from ******* ****( Zambian Aristotle).Now give me your number so that you learn more for your doctorate research project.

    • The issue is declaring.Ati i have been ‘gifted’ land, ndekulapo neng’anda!!! Crimi nal mind indeed

    • As Jay Jay says – really laughable. People calling themselves ******* **** are obviously not normal. Therefore they cannot talk about morals. Waste of time arguing with them. This platform is the right sunctuary for empty tins since they cannot say what they are saying here publicly.

13. This Mushota thing awe sure

    • I have done nothing wrong at all. I hope you are okay

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

14. Mushota is bitter today. She’s been working long hours in the old people’s homes and they have been stressing her out. Take time off, after all you are just a o minimum wage. Take it easy man!

    • Oh there you go analyser you and MB just like to undress me in public time after time.

      You always judge me by your sub standard standards, not fair.

      To be honest I have a soft spot for you, so i will let you belittle me.

      Just remember than when you push someone too much and too far they are bound to push back

      I am not your friend and I know that’s the way you like it.

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

15. The best judge in this case is Lungu’s words when he fired then Copperbelt Police Commissioner Ms Mary Tembo! By Lungu’s judgement, he also errors both morally and Legally! He must also step aside!

    • We all make mistakes, is that all you had to say?

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • Stealing or corruption by mistake??
      Its realy sad to imagine a human brain can think like this. Was this also made in Gods’ image?????

16. Presidents are always welcome with flowers. That is not a gift?

    • Oh dear you lost it there- that was a terrible example, not even funny.

      How old are you?

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

17. Viva Mushota buying telling off UPND today, you have spoken but the UPND sycophants cannot understand you because they hate our President Lungu but do not realise that the more they do so also we the majority will hate more their dictator and we will ensure he continue losing by not voting for him because he has hidden the privatisation loot in the paradise papers.

    • meant buy telling off I am sure its due to a UPND virus

    • I am seeking what belongs to me, a moral standing in Zambia and erecting the moral obligation of rewarding the patriots that love and believe in their President

      We have a duty to respect and love our President.

      I am glad you agree with me

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • meant by telling off. Told you of UPND virus see now by LT

18. Its not a gift! Give us proof that its a gift!
    Lungu bought land in swaziland using stolen money! He is a thief!

    • So says a nobody without any ounce of Truth

      You ignoramus waste of space

      You are so wrong its not even funny

      GROW UP

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • Mushota go and have that infested swamp between your legs looked at…..you are getting deranged

19. Lungu is corrupting everything….from ministers staying on after parliament dissolved to trying to justify earning $2.3 million after 18 months in office to wanting to normalize the president reviving gifts from contractors …..

    What a corrupt individual…..

    • What a lot of mumbo jumbo

      You are talking from your backside again

      Lungu shouldn’t be judged by morons like you.

      Respect our President or quiet frankly get lost and I wish nothing good good for you

      You biological mistake. You say that again, I will have you for lunch- I Promise

      Thanks

      BB2014,2016

    • And you mushota keep talking from between for smelly legs……that infected swamp between your legs is affecting your judgment , no one take a clown like you serious.

    • @ 19.2 Spaka like lilo

      Wish you did not resort to insults. You are better than that. I know that for sure.

    • The issue is declaring.Ati i have been ‘gifted’ land, ndekulapo neng’anda!!! Crimi nal mind indeed

20. Iwe ka Mushota waba shani kanshi? Please use those bundles to find a job. i think you desperately need one. Readers can we help this ka Mushota get a job? i mean any job to keep her busy?

    • She should probably go for Lusaka Mayoral job that is going (because of her belief in Lungu) but I am sure she will prefer to have the local government job in Glasgow. What can we do? We will just have to put up with all this!

    • It’s the infested swamp between her legs affecting her mind…

    • Kikikiki – tables are turning against Mushota. Ukoooooo

21. Say something on the poor widow when he was a lawyer. He has a bad DNA in him.

22. Demonic DNA. Always looking for something to steal including others people’s identity. Show him a heap of sand in Chongwe. It will go missing in seconds.

23. As some one said above , reciving gifts from contractors is seen as corruption. In any language , Plain and simple.

    Even worse for the head of state, what president does this set ?

    So to you rats , managers of parastatals reciving gifts from potential contractors is ok ?

    I know in the private world no person in a position of responsibility should recive a gift from a potential contractor

    • Lungu is legalizing corruption in Zambia.

24. Looks like some one is doing overtime…or maybe the effect of Mary Jane?

25. The chairman of Inyatsi is Michelo. Michelo is a wealthy Zambian who lives in Swaziland and even owns a Jet. He is very close with the King of Swaziland and the King of Swaziland introduced Michelo to ECL. Sometime this year or last year, the king of Swaziland was in Zambia. They spent some days in one of the game reserves. Michelo was there too. Records are there in the country at the KKIA as he flew in with his Jet.
    This is pure corruption but unfortunately it involves 2 leaders and a very wealthy businessman. For not it will go nowhere until ECL is out of power . We will live with it for now but someday we will revisit it.

    • Kachepa gossip masters like women at the market

      Nonetheless ecl asked for it

      Do the right thing

      Surrender that land Habitat for Humanity

      Swaziland is a very small piece of land and its immoral getting accepting that land

      Don t be like someone who grabbed land in namwala and put his animals at expense of poor people

    • Inyatsi was brought to Zambia by RB …..i know , I was there….

26. KK was given houses in Namibia and South Africa, was that corruption? How did the gift of land influence his decision to tilt towards eSwatini or the donor?

27. People will.always talk whether bad or good but when we error it important to withdraw & apologise forgive one anothér in order for.the brotherly love to continue oso for.mushots.am happy because he.has asked for forgiveness let us forgive our brother our sister.thank you

28. JCTR and upnd cadres, stop hallucinating for once, and don’t waste our time touting your ignorance and illiteracy. Let me interpret for you the ACC Act that you quote.
    “Section 21(1)(b) of the Anti-Corruption Act which states that a public officer (whether the public officer in this context includes the President is subject to interpretation) commits an offence of abuse of authority of office if the public officer USES one’s position, office or authority or any information that the public officer obtains as a result of, or in the course of, the performance of that public officer’s functions to obtain property, profit, an advantage or benefit, directly or indirectly, for oneself or another person (paraphrased)”.
    The operating word in this Act is “USES”, this means that one must go…

29. contd….
    The operating word in this Act is “USES”, this means that one must go out TO ASK FOR or SOLICIT such gift or advantage USING one’s position. I don’t see any such suggestion in the JCTR statement. The JCTR also argues that “…….legality and morality are not mutually exclusive….”. Simply put, by this their own statement, both aspects of the JCTR argument falls flat on its face.
    If JCTR and upnd cadres are really aggrieved, they should guide their MPs not to boycott parliament but go there to enact proper laws and amend the ACC Act accordingly. Otherwise both JCTR and upnd cadres and their are wasting their time and, unfortunately, OURS too!

30. Does Mushota even have a job? Looks like she works in a pig sty. Her thinking is reminiscent of pig fecal reeks. Corruption is corruption, no matter how hard you try to twist issues, soon and very soon your Chakolwa will face the full wrath of the law and all you morons supporting him will be scratching your heads while he suffers alone. As for Mushota get a life, every time on Lusaka times what job do you do? PHD holder? My foot.

31. ….How can a person be vilified under this Act in its current version simply by visiting a royal colleague who in his heart decides that you are such a good friend and gives you a gift of land? Or twenty heads of cattle and encourages you to start ranching? Why isn’t JCTR and upnd cadres questioning this gift of cattle? Those cattle are commercial high value breeds from the King’s ranch, probably valued as at K20,000 or more each, which makes it K400,000 conservatively. And the cockroaches because both their business and pass time is playing si.lly politics all the time, simply latch on a piece of land which is probably of much less value? I am not surprised that even h.h himself seems to find the debate by his robots rather st.upiot and has remained silent on the matter, preferring…

32. …..why should an innocent person be vilified under this Act in its current version simply by visiting a royal colleague who in his heart decides that you are such a good friend and gives you a gift of land? Or twenty heads of cattle and encourages you to start ranching? Why isn’t JCTR and upnd cadres questioning this gift of cattle? Those cattle are commercial high value breeds from the King’s ranch, probably valued as at K20,000 or more each, which makes it K400,000 conservatively. And the cockroaches because both their business and pass time is playing si.lly politics all the time, simply latch on a piece of land which is probably of much less value? I am not surprised that even h.h himself seems to find the debate by his robots rather st.upiot and has remained silent on the…

33. I GUESS THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH RECEIVING LAND AS A GIFT HOWEVER IT IS NOT LEGAL FOR MINISTERS TO RECEIVED GIFTS. WHAT IS TOTALLY WRONG AND CORRUPT IS USING BRIBES FROM TENDERS TO BUILD A MANSION – INYATSI HAS BEEN AWARDED ROADS TENDERS IN RETURN FOR BUILDING A $4 MILLION MANSION FOR LUNGU. THIS IS CORRUPTION AT ITS HIGHEST LEVEL AND IMPEACHMENT SHOULD BE THE OUTCOME OF THIS BLATANT THEFT !

    • Impeachment followed by jailtime.No pardons…

34. If the Swazi Chief gave me land I will accept it too. The only wrong is to take Zambian money and hide it in Panama or to use underhand methods and inside trading to swindle the nation of money in a privatization scam as HH did and is still doing to Zambia.

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