The Islamic Supreme Council of Zambia has cried foul over being left out of the 20 member technical committee appointed by President Sata to draft the new constitution.
Council Secretary General, Sheik Shaban Phiri says the Technical committee is not representative of all religions, which may be a threat to national unity.
He said that Muslims must be represented on the committee on account of their contribution to the country’s economic growth through the many businesses run by Muslims. Sheik Phiri has since disclosed that the council has written to President, Sata requesting for a redress of the matter.
And a clergyman has welcomed the appointment of a technical committee to draft a new Constitution but bemoaned the exclusion of the Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia (EFZ), a major church mother body.
Luapula Anglican Diocese Bishop Robert Mumbi said in an interview it was good that the committee had been appointed to immediately begin working on the new Constitution. Bishop Mumbi said he was impressed with the legal representation in the committee but said the President should still consider including the EFZ.
President Sata on Wednesday announced the appointment of a 20-member committee that included the Council of Churches in Zambia (CCZ) and three bishops from the Catholic Church. “It may send a wrong impression that one major Church mother body is left out when there was no such intention on the part of Government,” he said.
And Bishop Mumbi said the committee should not be restricted to completing its task within 90 days because this might compromise its work quality. He said Zambians expected a Constitution that would stand the test of time and he hoped the public would be allowed to look at, and give comments on the draft before it was referred to Parliament or to a referendum.
And the Zambian People’s Pact (ZPP) said it was happy with the composition of the committee because most of the members had been part of the Constitution-making process in the past.
ZPP national secretary Peter Sinkamba said the committee, led by former chief justice Annel Silungwe, was solid enough to come up with a Draft Constitution that would be acceptable to the people. Mr Sinkamba said focus should be on the review of past constitution commissions from 1991 in order to come up with a Draft Constitution after 90 days.
Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) president Musa Mwenye said in Lusaka yesterday that the plan to use a technical committee followed by a referendum and thereafter enactment of the Constitution through Parliament without further debate, was the best route.
“The appointment of the 20-member technical committee was only done yesterday (Tuesday) publicly. I must say that we are studying the composition and I can’t give a conclusive position on the composition,” he said. He said LAZ would support any measures that would lend credence to an all-inclusive and comprehensive constitutional review process.
Southern African Centre for Constructive Resolution of Disputes (SACCORD) executive director Lee Habasonda said while his organisation welcomed the appointment of the technical committee, there were, however, too many lawyers on the working group.
“The Constitution-making process is not just about law, it is also about socio-economic and political factors,” he said. “We also do not think that it is good for the minister of Justice to be part of discussion and process. To improve checks and balances, the minister should be involved when the draft is given to Cabinet,” he said.
UPND secretary general Winston Chibwe said the technical committee was not regionally all-inclusive and was tilted towards the Northern Province. Mr Chibwe said there was need for the president to reconsider his nomination of three Catholic bishops on the working group so that other Church mother bodies could be represented.
Zambia Land Alliance director Henry Machina said the committee of experts should critically look at the Land Chapter of the Draft Constitution and ensure that it provided protection to local people, particularly those who held customary land. “Our major concern is the displacement of rural communities who depend on land for survival by large-scale investors, often with inadequate or no compensation,” he said in a statement.
And the National Restoration Party national secretary John Phiri said there was need for the Patriotic Front Government to include youths in the Constitution-making process because it had the civic responsibility to do so.
[MUVITV/Times of Zambia]
Zambia is a Christian country…. Do you think islamic countries would include Christians in their constitutions? I DON’T THINK SO. Keep Zambia Christian.
True…considering that the president had asked the Muslim community to get involved in issues of National development, it is only but fair to get them involved in such an auspicious activity…And more importantly, it is only right to have adequate representation of diverse walks of life…3 priests? seriously???
What the F is this Sheik Shaban Phiri…we dont want suicide bombers… Acimwene Phiri your inclusion in the technical team is a national security …not the other round…so write you proposal and submit to the technical team (on time) for considerations. No seating allowances for every ‘Tom and Jerry’ this time.
nice one:d
No they cannot be included. Zambia is a Christian nation, they have nothing Christian to contribute. We just tolerate them. If they want input they can move to Saudi Arabia.
two things come to mind. One no muslim inclination in our constitution period. In ther words we do not want your influence at the national level. the other issue which is worrying the the strong respesenation of cathorics on this committee, why is Sata thinking we all belong to this church? Please Mr President stop this before it gets out of hand, we are not impressed. Just one person from the Cathoric Church remove the other two. The last and sad development is the growing influence of North in all committees, this is worrying. Mr president please stop this tribal trebd it is no good for the national unit and development. Mutembo ufinakosekose.
Muslims should perhaps make a written submission but not to be part of this committee. We do not want our constitution to be inclined with islam and we all know what muslims are hell bent on doing. Zambia should be very careful with muslims and now that they are here, it is very difficult to wish them away. The more the numbers, the more the problems! Muslims are always opposed to Christians and living side by side is nothing but a time bomb. look at Nigeria, Sudan, etc. Make no mistake, they have already started making noise after publicly denouncing Sata in favor of RB who gave them a go ahead to build a mosque in a residential area. Please be careful Zambia.
90 days is too short a time. But, still sata is on the right track.
what the #%$&*@ is going on here, Supreme Council!!!! will you call for Sharia law to apply to the Muslim community and in the long run apply to the whole of Zambia. Give these guys an inch and they will eventually ask for a mile. secondly no Christian values are enshrined in any Islamic country, Christians are the most persecuted people in the world all in the name of tolerance!!!
WE DON’T NEED AND WE WILL NOT HAVE ISLAMIC CONTRIBUTIONS……. PERIOD!!!!
The composition of this team is not by tribe religion or political affiliation but is largly on expertise.Submissions has already been made to the privours commisions. this is a technical team.
we dont need another Sudan, Nigeria were ethnic fighting has been the order of the days between Christians and Muslims..we are a christian nation and that it..period.
Ni sangwapo? evryone one wants a share! what a gov and president and country!!!!
PLEASE NOT THS EVILS THE MUSLIMS, THE IDOTS SATANAS WHO PRAY FOR SOMEBODY EVIL CALLED MOHAMED FROM IRAN OR PARKISTAN. PLEASE WE DONT NEED THIS IDOTS SATANICS IN ZAMBIA, THE HAVE TO BE DEPORTED TO MIDDLE EAST OR EVIL. THIS ARE EVILS BELIEVES IN BLOOD AND KILLING INNOCENT CHRISTAINS THROUGHOUT THE WORD. THE DOG PHIRI IS A BIG EVIL . WE NOT WANT THE MUSLIM IN ZAMBIA. ZAMBIA IS A CHRISTAIN NATION. AND ONLY CHRISTAINS HAVE POWERS IN ZAMBIA. WE DONT WANT THIS EVILS PLEASE.
Ba Zedi.Well spoken .Thank you.
BA PHIRI, We do not want to see Suicide bombers in Zambia!!! We want to see our children going to school and coming back safely.We love to walk around freely without the fear of the return of the black mambas.Again please Mr. Phiri, for the love of peace.SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND RELAX.ZAMBIA IS A CHRISTIAN NATION.MAY BE YOU DO NOT REALISE THAT YOU ARE IN A WRONG ENVIRONMEN T FOR YOUR RELIGION.TORELANCE IS NOT ACCEPTANCE PERIOD
islam is growing in zambia, it would be ignorant to sideline our fellow zambians and brothers.. with the zambian population growing steadfast in the near future only an incompetent person would overlook that islamic community will grow. most bloggers who have commented are either naive or just poking fun at there own country men. most of us blogging are in the diaspora, we feel and see discremination, racism and the like, why should we do that to our own people, shame on you fools.
Islam should not even be encouraged to grow in this country. It is a cult of violence that cant be encouraged. See what happens to countries where their influence has been allowed to spread? War chaos fear are the order of the day. Not my Zambia! We are a Christian nation chapwa.
Lady how are you going to discourage islamic growth? victimising? persecution? how?
This is not a religious constitution! It is a NATIONAL constitution. All creatures great and small must be considered. I do not think this is the time to start going beyond the function of freedom of religion. I think it is enough of a statement. Nothing more and nothing less.
LT, why delete no 15’s comment. Let people talk!
zedzed #10 thanks for putting it succinctly enough. We want to move forward and put up a national document; we do not want to start arguing whether it was Isaac or Ismael who was sacrificed by Abraham. Neither do we want to know whether or not the Christians plagiarised the Hindu scripts. Lets leave all those arguements where they belong and keep our country as sanely neutral as we possibly can. Technical approaches, where emotion is devoid and the greater good is the goal.
THIS CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALISM IS BULLSH.IT, AND IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM YOU WISH TO CONDEMN. I AM NO MUSLIM MYSELF, BUT AN ALL-INCLUSIVE LEVEL HEADED ZAMBIAN. yOU *****S DONT SEEM TO REALISE THAT THOSE CONFLICTS YOU WISH TO AVOID CAN ONLY HAPPEN WHEN YOU START REFUSING TO INCLUDE OTHERS IN THE DECISION MAKING. THATS WHEN YOU CREATE SUICIDE BOMBERS. DONT BE SO NÄIVE AND BLIND. DID NOT YOUR JESUS PREACH LOVE? SO WHY ALL THIS HATE, YOU FAKE CHRISTIANS? TRUE CHRISTIANS WOULD NOT TALK THIS NONSENSE YOU’RE TALKING.
LADY, BA ZED, AND ALL, YOU’RE HATERS, NOT TRUE CHRISTIANS AT HEART!!! YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THE MUSLIMS WANT TO CONTRIBUTE YET. FIRST YOU HEAR SOMEONE OUT, THEN YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE. ITS EMBARRASSING TO BE IDENTIFIED WITH YOU AS FELLOW CITIZENS!!!
MYSELF I DONT BELIEVE IN ANY RELIGION, BUT I RESPECT YOUR RIGHTS TO BELIEVE IN YOUR VARIOUS SUPERSISTIONS, SO WHY CANT YOU BE TOLERANT OF EACH OTHER? ALLAH, JEHOVAH, WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE? WE’RE ALL ZAMBIANS HERE, AND WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. SOME CHRISTIANS ARE RESPECTABLE AND SENSIBLE, BUT YOU POSTING HERE ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF TRUE CHRISTIAN LOVE!!! PERIOD!!!!
#19:
They dont need to be on the commitee if the have genuine contributions, obviously! how many people then are we going to have on the comitte? it will be another CRC!
Ni nsala fye yaboma ba mambala, balefwaya ukulya!!!!
Sir Simunyola, you may be right, but then, why 3 catholic bishops? Surely one is enough? Considering that the council of churches is also represented, is that not enough christian contribution? Then you have EFZ also crying to jump onto the bandwagon. Ninshi ekwebati na abena kristu nabena ninsala yabaponona? Fimbi kutontonkanyako panono, noti ukulasabaila fye.
People have to be serious and not just make stupid pronouncements unnecessarily. Zambia is a Christian nation and therefore, other religions even if they are free to express their views and practice their faith, they must be reminded that Zambia is not going entertainment this kinda drama. The Christian religion represents 99% of the Zambian people and there is noway the Islamic community can be represented in the constitution road map unless they state their real agenda. Can any christian even be tolerated for such issues in the Islamic countries or societies. If they are not happy with the current situation they should book out! People are now simply taking advantage of every situation in Zambia and soon we will here another group wanting representation. Who is representing the bloggers?
It doesent mean when we are christian then we hav to accept everything to please everyone NOOO!!!! if only know how muslims hatred for christians is you would understand.we dont hate them but we dont want them to dominate zambia.for that i agree with the NOOOO group and no one is going to change my mind.
Mr Phiri,ask anymuslim especially from Iran,Soud Arabia Iraq if they can tolerate a christian in their countries let alone give them a platform in their national matters.Mr Phiri don’t let yourself be used by those ARABS, they are nasty let them take their Sharira laws somewhere.
Let Iran include Christians in their government first. After that we can think about the ISC(Z).
The name Islam is synonymous with hate, violence and killings. As one of the bloggers has rightly said, ‘give them an inch, they will demand for a mile’ and it is well known that they have openly said they will make the whole world follow the sharia law. Zambia must watch them and learn from the terror they have inflicted on other nations. It’s not about trampling on their freedom of worship but the peace and security of Zambia must be guarded jealously.
@ Mr Chikala
Your name says it all. Your mother is a cheap whore that conceived in a bar toilet.
You are racist and disgusting. Take care my FREIND
1) God said put no other God before me
2) look at what Muslims have done to Somalia ( ruled by Muslim warlords) Nigeria, Sudan and the crazy middle east.
There is a time and a place for every thing, Zambia for Christ and true democracy period.
WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING IS THAT JUST BECAUSE OTHERS HATE JUSTIFIES YOUR HATE. THAT IS BULLSHIT. CHRISTIANITY HAS ALSO BEEN A VIOLENT RELIGION. ANYONE REMEMBERS THE INQUISITIONS? THE DECLARATION OF ZAMBIA AS A CGHRISTIAN NATION WAS MADE BY A THIEF WHO WANTED TO COVER HIS BEHIND, AND MANY ZAMBIAN CHRISTIANS ARE SIMILAR HYPOCRITES. 99 PERCENT? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FIGURE? SATURDAY KU NG’ANGA, SUNDAY KU CHURCH, AFTER CHURCH KULI CHIBUKU NA KACHASU!!! YOU HATING HYPOCRITES!!!
ZAMBIAN CHRISTIANITY IN GENERAL IS THE CHRISTIANITY OF DRUNKARDS. THERE ARE SOME GOOD WELL PRACTISING HUMBLE AND FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS WHO I RESPECT THOUGH I DONT BELIEVE IN THE RELIGION. BUT MANY OF YOU BLOGGING HERE ARE FAKE. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVEN READ THE GOOD BOOK, AND I DONT MEAN JUST QUOTING FAVOURITE VERSES THAT YOU IMITATE. FAKERS AND LYING HATERS!!! GEORGE BUSH CHRISTIANITY!!!
#15 If you cannot see the growth of Islam in Zambia as a threat then you are an ***** because you cannot see danger. Islamic radicalism in Uk, US, Somalia, Sudan is all home grown and then exported. Besides have you ever heard of Islamic states consulting non- Muslim organisations in their country to contribute to the constitution? Let those who want to pretend to be Zambians know that we cherish our peace. Those fake Zambians who are condemning those who are opposing Islamism for what it is have their own hidden vested interest. Some times we may need to be fools to be wise. We have seen and learnt from other countries that have been tolerant and are paying for it.
Muslisms are expansionists. The passive Muslims in Zambia have radical relatives elsewhere. The passive parents will one day pass on and their children and their children’s children after them may not be as passive. Be ware Zambians, take your stand now on Islam or our children and our children’s children will be made to pay for our “kindness and tolerance”. You may be called foolish today, but you will be judged to be wiser by the coming generations.
#31, YOU DOG CALLING YOURSELF EQUALIZER, MAY BE YOU ARE AMONY THIS EVILS THE MUSLIMS, ARE YOU A SUCID BOMER, YOU ARE A FOOL AND A DOG, THE FATHER IS ALSO A DOG TO MAKE YOU A SATANIC BELIEVER, MUSLIMS ARE LOST HUMAN BEINGS, THE PRAY FOR A PERSON CALLED MOHAMED FROM IRAN OR PARKISTAN YOU MARRIED 16 WIFE AND THE THE YOUNGEST WIFE WAS 10 YEARS OLD, PLEASE MUSLIMS LEAVE ZAMBIA ALONE, WE ARE CHRISTANS …….WE DONT WANT BLOOD……. FOR OUR PEOPLE
Zambians may be hypocrites but there even more and bigger hypocrites among the Muslims and # 15 knows, they evade tax, they don’t declare their incomes from businesses and rentals, they are masters of deceptions with factories that reproduce any government document like drivers licenses and passports and anything that can give their people safe passage to facilities in other countries. # 15 Leave the Zambians alone to enjoy the freedom their land offers which you and your relatives including Mr Phiri also enjoy.
This is an encouragement to pray for those in authority so that we may lead a quite and a peaceful life as this is pleasing before God who wants all men to be saved. There is a need to pray for wisdom for our leaders so that the country is not divided by tribalism, religion etc. Be gentle like doves and wise like serpents the battle is not against flesh and blood, but thanks be to Jesus Christ who has already overcome and has disarmed everything in the heavenly realms.May the wisdom of God prevail in our leaders and in Zambia in Jesus name. God bless Zambia.
@Yazanda: Christianity reached us by expansionism, and there is evidence on this blog that somepractitioners are intolerant. Tax evasion is common in Zambia, the UK, the US of A, and all non Islamic countries. You just voted out the christian government of MMD. Masters of deception, like the christians who gave you the bible at the barrel of a gun and took your land and resources which you are still fighting to reclaim. Think with your heads, not your hearts,ladies and gentlemen. You are contradicting yourselves. I am not necesarily advocating and Islamic presence in the process, but I am saying if chrostianity can be over represented, why can’t another religion have at least a bit of that representation. After all, the constitution is about politics and givernance, not about religion.
HOW MUCH DAMAGE HAVE MOSLEMS DONE IN ZAMBIA COMPARED TO DAMAGE DONE BY PEOPLE WHO CLAIM CHRISTIANITY? ANSWER ME THIS HONESTLY AND I MIGHT STOP CALLING YOU A SHALLOW, MEDIOCRE, HATEFUL, DANGEROUS, HYPOCRITICAL, FUNDAMENTALIST, POTENTIALLY DIVISIVE FAKER!!!
#12 Sir Simunyola: Ni samgwapo for sure. Yesterday I made a comment that, EFZ cry was not justfieble. The church is alredy represented. I am yet to hear one say THE DEVIL ALSO WANTS to be included in the review, perhaps it would make a difference.
Today its SDA, Moslems, tomorrow it will be Jehova witness and other chrches.
This SANGWAPO. behaviour is no sense…its too bad the money was chewed by NCC and George Kunda.
@GENERAL: I agree with the statement that this Sangwapo business is nonsense, whether its moslems or christians. After all, this is about political governance, not religious doctrine.
@THE JACKAL: Speak for yourself. I am a Zambian too but I have a different opinion. The boundary of Zambia is based on politics and ethnicity, not religion. Waba ifandamentalism lyobe.
NO islam….fu#$ muslims and muhammed!
Make no mistake with Islam they are always ready dominate,that’s why in western province the litunga even doesn’t want to smell their perfume
AND YOU EVEN THINK CHRISTIANITY DID NOT COME BY CONQUEST AND DOMINATION. MWASAMBILIILE KWISA KANSHI BANGWEELE IWE?
Are you a suicide bomber,ka equalizer?We dont need you,anyway.ZAMBIA IS A CHRISTIAN NATION.Olochikubabe!Go to Afghanistan,you’ll get a job in no time.
YOU ARE CHRISTIANS BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN CONQUERED BY THE WEST AND ROME. WHAT FLIMSY EXCUSES YOU’RE COMING UP WITH. ATI ISLAM IS ABOUT CONQUEST. BOTH ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY ARE ABOUT CONQUEST. HAVE YOU NOT READ ABOUT THE WARS IN THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE? (1)WHAT WAS JOSHUA DOING IN JERICHO? (2)THE ISRAELITES ATTACKED THE PHILLISTINES IN A WAR OF AGGRESSION, GOT THEIR ASS.ES WHUPPED, LOST THE ARK OF THE COVENANT, AND EVENTUALLY DAVID KILLED GOLIATH.THE BATTLE OF MOAB, WHICH WAS ABOUT TAXES, JUST LIKE CATHOLIC (CHRISTIAN) ROME CONQUERED AND CHRISTIANIZED EUROPE WHICH IN TURN CONQUERED AFRICA, ASIA AND THE AMERICAS, ALSO FOR INCOME, AND USING THE BEATITUDES TO PACIFY THE NATIVES AS CHRISTIANITY WENT FOR THE GOLD AND DIAMONDS AND SLAVES… FIND A LIBRARY AND READ SOMETHING. I’LL GIVE YOU 5 YEARS
FIND OTHER EXCUSES TO DEFEND YOUR HATRED FOR ANYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE SAME SUPERSTITION AS YOURS, BECAUSE THESE FLIMSY ONES YOU ARE GIVING HARE ARE WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS ALSO GUILTY OF.
IN ONE SENTENCE, YOUR AFRICANNESS HAS BEEN DOMINATED BY CHRISTIANITY, A FOREIGN CONQUEROR!!!
#35
ACCORDING TO YOUR RELIGION MAN WAS MADE IN GOD’S IMAGE, SO IF YOU SEE ME AND SEE ME AS A DOG, ARE YOU NOT BLASPHEMING? EVEN WHAT YOU CALL YOURSELF IS SUGGESTIVE OF YOUR MENTAL CAPACITY, AND YOUR RANTINGS FULL OF HATRED AND MADNESS. YOU ARE AN ***** WHO DOES NOT REPRESENT TRUE CHRISTIANITY. ITS FOOLS LIKE YOU WHO GIVE CHRISTIANITY A BAD NAME.
VIVA SECULAR STATE!!!!!!!
#50 Secular societies do not allow bibles in schools and public places.They are extremely liberal and have teachings that go against Christian which are even found in the school curriculums. They do not allow Christian public prayers and the crucifix in public places which includes schools. Teachers are actually dismissed in sharing their Christian values. Secular society states try to eliminate Christian recognition in the name of political correctness and are ending up persecuting the freedom to practice Christianity. For example, Christmas is even now called holidays. Secularism is a religion in it’s own quest which is not that innocent. VIVA CHRISTIAN STATE ZAMBIA!!!!
#50 Mind my last typo errors. Secular societies do not allow bibles in schools and public places.They are extremely liberal, and have teachings that go against Christianity. These liberal teachings are growing in school curriculums. They do not allow Christian public prayers in public places and schools. The crucifix can not even be worn on a chain in some schools and public institutions. Teachers and employers can actually be dismissed for sharing their Christian values. Secular society states try to eliminate Christian recognition in the name of political correctness and are ending up persecuting the freedom to practice Christianity. For example, Christmas is even now called holidays. Secularism is not that innocent in the world. VIVA CHRISTIAN STATE ZAMBIA!!
Islamic Council?Aikona man!We dont need them.We dont need Sharia law.We dont need suicide bombers.Sorry ba mwana Ishmael.
Sichinibaba boyi. Chioneka monga chibaba iwe. I’m too high above to be affected by mediocrity. Its just pity I have :)
Ka Equalizer leka ukusabaila.Ulefisenda personal,mwana ishmael.ZAMBIAN IS A CHRISTIAN NATION,period.Abash secular state.Are you sick,mwana ishmael?You think Africans were meant to be moslems?Ubepelefye!
You sheik first tell your members to instal cash registers in their shops in Kamwala and issue tax invoices and also display prices on goods just like in Game or Shoprite. There is too much tax evading by “muslims” in Kamwala Trading area
# 51
Christianity is a fake religion, anyway, taken from books much older then the bible, facts twisted by the Roman emperor Constantine for political expedience and the expansion of the Roman Empire. After spreading it throughout Europe by the sword, the slave master and the colonialist brought it using the same method to steal your gold , your copper, your uranium and your people to work as slaves in the plantations. The peole who brought you that religion don’t even believe in it themselves, and there you are killing each other over an illusion. EMANCIPATE YOURSELVES FROM MENTAL SLAVERY!!!
@DON CORLEONE: Abalefisenda personal nibalya abashilefwaya ukuchinga abanabo ukwabula valid explanation. Ati Islam is violent and dominating, thats the same with christianity. I dont like religion at all, so I have no need to support the moslems. It is the very idea of fundamentalism, whether Islamic or Christian, that I abhor. So myself as an atheist, you will deny me my right to be Zambian just because I dont believe in your God? Is that not the same domination you are accusing the moslems of? BEING IN THE MAJORITY DOES NOT MEAN YOU*RE RIGHT: THE MAJORITY KILLED YOUR JESUS; IF THAT STORY IS EVEN TRUE:
@ DON CORLEONE: Nga tawatoba research lobe boyi. Myself I’m liberated from favtasy and illusion, and I have love in my heart, enough to tolerate your illusions, whereas you dont have that love enough to tolerate my presence, so if your religion is real, na iwe wine ukapya boyi. Not everyone who says Lord Lord shall enter.
fantasy*
Sorry, on post 57 I intended to say abalefisenda personal nibalya abalefwaya ukuchinga abanabo, nabalya abaletukana insele (abena kristu zoona). Myself I’ just trying to point out the holes in your logic. Until the last post I have not attacked christianity, but the hypocritical in faith. Now when you start to attack me personally and to insult me, then you leave me no choice but to point out the deluded nature of your faith and the unholy foundation of your religion in the first place.
Anyway, nafumamo muli ili ilyashi. It is not my style to insult oter people’s faith regardless of my personal opinions. Aleni Viva Mental Slavery!!!
#56 Jesus Christ brought freedom and broke slavery. I pray one day you take time to know Jesus… and not confuse him with religion that is man made. He is the only way , truth and light. Jesus brings peace and joy. The bible is holy and is a lamp on our feet.
I have no problem with Yeshua. My problem is how man tries to twist his message and how they have created a corrupt movement out of his mission. As for the Bible, it was written at a time when we have written historical evidence of what was going on around that time, and way before, but knowing fundamentalist christian thinking, if I suggest evidence, for example the Egypatian Book of The Dead, where stories like the virgin birth and the beatitudes were taken from, you will say the devil did it… So its pointless. What matters is we are all Zambians and need to work together for our national development and our children, and I respect people whatever they choose to believe in, as long as they also respect the rights of others to be who they are.
As far as individuals go, I have more resect for Yeshua than for Muhammad, who was a political prostitute, married the rich woman Khadija for political influence, whereas Yeshua was a humble man spreading enlightment. But as far as religions go, Islam and Christianity have no difference. They were all created for purposes other than righteousness by power hungry people who had an agenda of conquest and domination for territory and resources, and they all spread through force and violence, and they are both quite arrogant. Here I do not mean to belittle those individuals who are genuine in their belief.
I apologize for using provocative expression, in response to those who are being vulgar and abusive in their response. When a person claims to be christian, and calls themself chi.kala and get abusive, that dis-credits what those of you who are genuine stand for. Still, religion and ideologies are personal choices which should not be used by groups to suppress others who beg to differ. Like I said, we’re working on a political constitution for political governance for all Zambians, not a religious document.
#57 Equalizer: No single person is born a Christian. That’s why they need to be born again. When they are born again, they became new creations and children of God. In Islam people are born Muslims. Should they change their mind as they meet the reality of man’s sinfulness, and turn to Christ, the life giver, they face threats of death, and alienation from the family. Therefore if you are talking of enslavement, think of Islam Mr Equalizer. You may sound clever, knowledgeable manipulative, eloquent and fluent in our languages, but remember that there will be a dat when you will meet Christ. On this one, there is no option.
# 57 However, all your presentations evaluated, it does not matter any more now, because you do not want Zambia to remain what it has always been, – peaceful. You do not care what will be come of Zambia after the settlers in the form of Muslims, start wanting to take over through the infiltration of the constitution. Certainly you are not speaking in Zambian’s interest and it is clear. Did you know that there more refugees in Christian Countries from Islamic countries.
After have been accepted, put on benefits, and sponsored through the universities only to turn against the countries that have offered them safe refugee. Show me one church that operates without strict laws and rule in any if at all those churches exist.
#45 Do you realise that you are contradicting yourself. Don’t you know that Islam is a foreign religion in Africa and other parts of the world? If it were not for the colonial masters who brought Muslims from Pakistan and India as servants, and the crafty use of money and donations to poor governments, Zambia would have been Islam free. Muslims are good at claiming human rights which they, themselves, are unable to observe when dealing with matters involving their perceived enemies. Putting it quite plainly, their god is a murderer and knows no mercy. You draw a cartoon of someone, you know what will follow. WE DO NOT WANT THAT IN ZAMBIA. If that is too much for you and your Islamic relatives, go to Iran, Somalia or Nigeria or indeed go back to your place of origin and leave Zambia alone.
#39 If Muslims can make Zambian girls pregnant and fail to marry them and or to support the children thus fathered,don’t you see the danger of having fatherless children? If that does not concern you, what kind of Zambian are you?
If your relatives have no receipt books, no invoice books,no delivery notes and no noticeable evidence income and expenditure, how can the government claim its share of the tax? There is a lot to suspect Mr Equalizer. If these and many of my contributions would you still call me mediocre, hateful shallow and faker. If you want to see what I am talking about, look the what happened in Kenya, Tanzania which are near home, and Ground Zero as reminders. We must not forget. Mr Equalizer and many others like him are wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Imagine what would happen if anyone blogged in any Islamic state the way Equalizer is blogging here. The Internet would close, I am certain. I rest my case.
YAZANDA: Firstly, I have apologized for being provocative. I think that would say something about my character. I desist from name calling, whereas you are name-calling. A wolf in sheep clothing, which clothing? I have not claimed to be a christian, so exactly what am I pretending to be? That I will have to meet Jesus one day is your opinion, which I respect. I will not call you shallow for that. I will simply say I dont believe in that and I have no fear. Christianity is as foreign to Africa as Islam. Come on. Are you serious? Is Israel in Africa? The oldest christianity in Africa is the Ethiopian Orthodox, which came from the Jews, from which Haile Selassie (who some rastafarians have blown out of proportion) descends, brought to Africa by Menelik, son of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba.
For you to assume I’m a Moslem just because I challenge christian fundamentalism (By this I dont mean that all chritians are fundamentalists, but just those who are as intolerant as SOME Moslems) is prejudice. Ndi mwina Zed mudala 2kwati iwe wine. If you are suggesting that no Zambian can have my views then I would say you’re either out of touch, or in denial, or just being malicious. Don’t say WE do not want this in Zambia. Say SOME of us, or MOST of us, that might be more accurate than to assume all Zambians share your opinion. Your intolerance for people who differ with your point of view is as dangerous as that which you choose to condemn about Muslim fundamentalists. My place of origin is Zed mudala.
Both parents black Zambians. But what if I was an immigrant like Guy Scott? After all, most tribes in Zambia migrated either from the Luba-Lunda Empire or from the South fleeing Shaka Zulu. You give examples of what happened in Tanzania and Kenya. I could give an example of Senegal, Mali, Gambia, Niger, African Moslem dominated countries which exercise similar freedoms like ours in Zambia. You are right that in most ARAB nations my talk would land me in trouble, but you seem to not see that you are also victimising me (Telling me to leave my home country because my views differ from yours) like those people, so you would be no different if you were in power. My argument is not in favour of Islam. It is intolerance I am criticizing.
Going by your statements you are intolerant of differing views from yours such that you are willing to strip me of my Zambianness. Talking about fatherless children, I know many, and I am so sure that so do you, who have been abandoned by black Zambian non moslem fathers. What I am advocating is for all Zambians to be heard, not for us to be a moslem state. I support no religion, not even the idea of religion. I believe that spiritual growth and righteousness do not necessarily need religion. Jesus was harassed by religious people. I’m not asking you to give up your religion. I am saying Zambia is for all of us, and if you dont like it, well, you’ll just have to deal with it, because I aint changing nationality to appease your intolerance. Be well, my friend, and learn to love.
By the way, you have seen the wave of protests in those Islamic States, meaning not all Mosles agree with the system of their leadership. Unfortunately, those who take over the reigns of power are from the same category as the intolerant, which does not necessarily represent the views of all their citizens, otherwise they would not need to rule with an iron fist.
On the question of enslavement, the Arabs and the European christians (where we got our version of christianity from) all took slaves from Africa. The Bible was a tool they used. (Here I am not arguing the validity of the Bible, but responding to your denial of christianity having been involved in the slave trade). In 1964 you got your independence after being colonized by the christian English. King Leopold, the christian king of Belgium ordered Belgian priests to use the beatitudes to pacify the natives of the Congo, to pave way for the administrators and industrialists. So, all I am saying, again, is, we are all Zambians. Religion is not the issue. the issue is what we bring to the table, and intolerance is un-democratic. I do have the right to be an atheist in a democracy.
As for your post # 67, peace is threatened when groups become intolerant of each other instead of operating on an equal rights basis. What you are saying is some are more Zambian than others. That is a recipe for disaster, so you are the one, probably unknowingly, preparing the groundwork for conflict. I know lots and lots of christians who would beg to differ with you. You black Zambian christians converted to a foreign religion. What is wrong with other black Zambians converting to a foreign religion of their choice? These Moslems in question are not all from immigrant communities. Honestly, I see your arguments as more defensive than objective. With this line of reasoning you might as well forget calling yourself a democrat. You seem to be for theocratic despotism.
it is not the Muslims contribution that will bring the constitution to Zambia but Zambians. Please forget the sayings of shaban for he is not even a Zambian to claim anything if he thinks he is when did he become one and how did he become one? and what is this council for we know it is fake and it does not represent any Muslim community in Zambia but their own interest. ask the registrar of society if the so called certificate of the so called council in genuine or not if he said it is genuine then we are fighting a loosing battle for corruption. if the times is interested we can provide proof to what we are saying.