Thursday, March 28, 2024

Chinese investment has helped to woo other investors- Dr Musokotwane

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File picture for Finance minister Situmbeko Musokotwane

Finance and National Planning Minister Situmbeko Musokotwane says Chinese Investment in the country has helped the country attract other investors from bigger economies.
Dr. Musokotwane said most investors have decided to take an interest to invest in Zambia because of the Chinese investment.

He urged politicians to avoid politicizing Chinese investment because it is helping the country in bringing in more investment into the country.

Dr Musokotwane said in an interview that Zambians should concentrate more on the benefits that come with Chinese investment other than the negatives.

He said China has continued to be the major financial lender to bigger economies adding that Zambia should be grateful for being part of the development.

The minister said Chinese investment has contributed to the growth of the Zambian economy which is highly commendable.

Dr Musokotwane added that what is even better is that China has shown interest in investing in many sectors of the Zambian economy.
[ QFM ]

66 COMMENTS

  1. the pact devils are being silenced daily by good news. even post today for the first time has no sata or HH story. They have only featured RB in full colour and detail!!! MMD will rule again come 2011 and milanzi and mufumbwe belong to them

  2. From the POST: WHEN we have said that Rupiah Banda and his minions do not believe that they are the government and therefore responsible to provide services to our people, we have no doubt that some of our people have wondered why we have been so hard.

    It seems that although Rupiah likes to boast about being ‘boma’ – the government, he is only interested in the benefits that the office brings. Rupiah has no passion to serve our people and provide them with the basic necessities of life.

  3. It does not seem that he realises, that as the government, they are the only authority that can attend to the many challenges that our people face. These people do not accept that it is their responsibility to ensure that our people are looked after. This is something that we’ve been talking about for sometime now and now we have been proved very right.

    What happened the other day at the National Constitutional Conference when it was time to discuss the right to be free from hunger and to have access to food is very shameful indeed. People who, in all probability had three square meals, and hefty allowances at the taxpayers’ expense, were laughing at the need for the right to food and other social rights to be included in the Constitution.

  4. We are not qualified to discuss the legalities of whether or not such a right should or could be enshrined in the Constitution. The little knowledge that we have acquired does not enable us to do that as competently as others might. Our interest is to expose the folly of those who sit and laugh at the needs of our people. How can anyone in their right frame of mind laugh and dismiss the need for our people to have access to food?

    This is only done by people who are so careless and blinded by the allowances that they get. These people who are sitting to discuss the Constitution have forgotten that they are there to represent the people and discuss how the Constitution is going to address the basic necessities of life.

  5. Laughing at the need for improving people’s living is shameful and something that should tell us the quality of the discourse that is going on in the National Constitutional Conference. There is complete and utter of seriousness.

    Maybe the ordinary delegates could be forgiven for behaving in the way that they did because one may have to accept that they do not know what they are doing.

    But how can a minister in a government proclaim that the provision of water, good shelter and a toilet for our people is impossible and utopian? Deputy justice minister Todd Chilembo in discussing the rights to water and food said the following: “I think this clause is utopian. Even Kaunda and his humanist regime did not have this dream.

  6. You are talking of food, shelter with bathing shower and toilet for every person; how possible is that? We don’t want to live in a utopian society”. This is what a minister in Rupiah’s government believes, that our people have no right to aspire to a life where they can have access to clean water and sanitation, adequate shelter and food.

    This is a man who was driven to the National Constitutional Conference in a vehicle that we pay for as taxpayers, in all probability lives in a house that we pay for, uses a toilet that we pay for. Because we provide all these things for him, he has forgotten that they cost money and that other people deserve them also.

  7. What could be more basic than providing water and sanitation in a nation? But if a government believes that access to water and sanitation for our people is utopian, why are they in government? What is their job? We should now all understand what kind of government we have. These are people who believe that the problems that our people face have nothing to do with them. They can continue flying around and enjoying taxpayer facilities without delivering on the people’s requirements.

    It is shocking that at a time when we are losing many people to simple waterborne diseases such as cholera, a minister can stand and say providing proper sanitation to all our people is utopian. What hope is there for this country? Rupiah and his ministers do not mean well for our people. They have no clue…

  8. They have no clue what it is to run a country.

    This is why Chilembo can even mock Dr Kaunda’s government saying that even Kaunda’s humanist regime did not have such a dream. He forgets that one of the driving principles of comrade KK and his colleagues in their earlier days of government was to provide basic services to our people. It remains for every succeeding government to build on that dream and not to dismiss the plight of the people as utopian in the way that Chilembo has done. Anyway, the behaviour of Chilembo should not surprise anyone. It typifies his government’s approach to very complex requirements of leadership. They have no real understanding of how government operates and what its functions are.

  9. They think that government is this nebulas machine that controls things without clear leadership and input from natural human beings. To them government or ‘boma’ is a distant thing that has no obligations to the people on whose behalf it runs. This is why we say they are not fully in charge.

    They are at the mercy of their own imaginations and have no clue and clear understanding of what they should be doing. They don’t really sit down to ask themselves what is the purpose of government. They don’t seem to spend too much time asking themselves how the operations of government are going to be funded.

  10. In short, they are irresponsible. They do not feel the pressure to provide services to our people. Their job is to remain in power for its own sake. This explains why Chilembo and their agents in the National Constitutional Conference can so irresponsibly laugh at efforts that try to compel our government to provide basic services and social amenities to our people.

    To them, saying our people need to be fed and given proper sanitation is a laughing matter. What a shame! What is this Constitution going to do if not to ensure that this country is made more livable and that the resources that we have as a nation are used to better the quality of life for all our people?

  11. Laughing at people’s hunger and their lack of water and sanitation is foolish and undermines the legitimacy of government. If you can’t provide hope to our people, don’t be a politician. As for Chilembo, every time he uses a toilet paid for by government and toilet tissue paid for by government, he should remember that all our people deserve the dignity of a decent toilet, and this is not utopian.

  12. #1 King Solomon- You are lost. If Sata has not said or done anything you expect the Post to mention his name and for what? Zoona uli Cadre like Bobo of Kulima Tower who has gone to cause trouble in Mufumbwe

  13. Musokotwane really behaves like someone with a Phd in Economics. Doesn’t realise the difference between Reality and thories. No wonder non scholars are good at running business affairs. They are familar with reality.

  14. Ok Ok Back to teh topic now. LOL.

    Ba Musokotwane should at least tell us what those follow up investors or investments are. Does anyone know who or what the Doc is talking about?

    Also, It would be helpful to tell us what Zambia has benefited from China’s investment. It’s one thing to have investors but another thing to benefit from them.

  15. Chinese and other investments into Zambia do not benefit the common Zambian but the infestors and the corrupt MMD government.What has Chinese investment done to improve the lives of people in Msisi,Chibolya,Kanyama etc? Zambian economists like this Musokotwane are full of unworkable theories about the economy. Theories are exactly what they are, theories! Theory needs to be put into practice.For how long are these bastads going to continue feeding Zambians with theories?

  16. This is all talk. I ll only believe it when my mother in Kapisha in Chingola will be able to afford 3 square meals, access clean water and reasonable health care

  17. And it would be interesting to see comments from everyone in here about Red Card Jinx Popo’s post which i believe is today’s editorial from the Post. How do you judge a minister who laughs at the need to have access to food and water as a right. If one can not be allowed to have access to the basic needs of survival then i have a serios problem with the thinking of our government.
    I for one know that for me to have massive riches, i have to work fr them but the basic survival needs erally at least should be guaranteed! Our government doesnt think so

  18. Are the Post now against the NCC? Is it one of Mwanawasa’s legacy? PF cadres were not up in arms when the over-fed tribalist GBM was bragging about how much money he has which to me is rather insensitive from a party that is supposedly pro-poor and now want to make noise about Minister’s ‘laughing’ simply because they are sensible enough not to make promises that can not be kept. Not all Zambians are gullible enough to believe in a 90 day miracle and where does personal responsibility come in? Does that mean that we should just wait for govt to do everything for us?

  19. Yea! Yea! Yea!
    “Chinese Investment in the country has helped the country attract other investors from bigger economies”
    Investors are like red ants or ants in general. When one ant invests its time in looking for “free and dead” carcasses of insects, in no time, you will find an insect accident Zone infested with red ants or just ants in general. Zambia is like an insect carcass in this case.
    There is nothing peculiar about one group of investors doing the wooing to other investors from what ever corner of mother earth. Whats is important to me and other zambians is to see and feel development at the grassroots.
    Not half baked development which awaits a campaign during a bye election. Iam definitely not amused. Development on paper? Please!
    :-w:-w

  20. arguing with fools means one would not know which one is wiser. the investments are there for all to see and zambians are benfitting. just go to lumwana and see how that place has been transformed. all the copper output goes to a chinese built smelter which then exports the finished copper to china. china is now zambia’s biggest market for copper. so what the minister is saying is that we have seen a multiplier effect of chinese investment in zambia. many businesses are re-opening in luanshya and all over the country to service the chinese companies and other new investments. only a fool can claim otherwise

  21. another example is kcm which is currently supporting mulungushi university with over US$20 million support. kcm is also single handedly maintaining the cbu and unza school of mines by sponsoring students to those two institutions. also as a result of investment in lumwana, solwezi has new hotels, new housing estates and roads. the whole country is booming. the chinese are also helping to keep prices down for the poor and the working class to be able to own things like tv’s, fridges and other white goods. the country is moving forward and those useless kaponya’s in Pact are not able to provide a vision beyopnd their own greed. the post has given up now and trying to find ways to repair their relationship with mmd because they can see that all these politicians in pact are useless like gbm

  22. paying 500,000 pin to a worker, insulting and thumping a worker on the face and bribing a cop with 20 pin is what the man with a phd in the financial ministerial position is saying.=))o-> Its quite amazing at how our learned minister seems to want to potray a picture of selflessness to appease his masters with chinese economic improvement only better known to himself.

  23. #23 King Solomon- Despite the war in DRC investors are falling over each other just to do business there. War no war they will come because they want the raw material badly. We did not have investors in KKs time because he chased them.$20m KCM is giving Mulungushi College is just pocket money for KCM executives if you dont know. There is a mining company which had budgeted $2m budget but made $12m due to the unrestrained upswing of Cu prices. That company would obsiously give away the orinal $2m to the community if they want.

  24. =))=)):)):))=))=))[-x[-x[-x:)):))=))=)):-?
    Take development to the roads, hospitals, schools, rail lines, social amenities,local govts. Support local suppliers in time not after 3months at KCM mmmhhh!! are you living on earth or just dreaming. Ati Lumwana, typical zambian. Did your first 4 teech come out of your gums whilst in Zambia? Chaps are benefiting big time. what development are you talking about dreamer? Wait, after that rock is dug to the root. Remember it is a wasting assert. 3/4 of Zeds don’t farm. Any hike in rock price sends the country desperately on its knees; Are you going to preach develoment sucker? Hmmm! Huh! are you normal. Zambian development should not be on paper. 3/4 of Zambians are wallowing in poverty. Too many school leavers on the street, sucker!

  25. King solomon is right and all those who cant accept that the chinese have helped to help our economy are dummies.Who are to be thanked by the increase of copper out put in zambia?when even the most stupid person knows our economy is copper dependent.Nobody ever thought that northwestern province would contribute to our economy?some towns like luanshya are slowly resurrecting,which industry employs the highest number of engineers?ya some people are really dull mwe.Guys i know we live in a very pemissive society but lets think I.D.I.O.T.S.

  26. Unless one is an i.d.i.o.t, Zambia’s economic growth benefits infestors.Yes copper is exported in thousands of tonnes but does the export money come to Zambia, the answer is a blatant NO!! So the chinese are digging our copper,selling it in China and keeping the cash in China.This Musoka nyina is too daft just like some people on this blog who enjoy Zambia’s economic growth on paper only. 6.1% annual growth my foot!! The more copper is exported from Zambia,the more Chinese and Indian and other citizens except Zambians benefit!!

  27. Question to minister Musokotwane (former director for ZCCM-IH, may I add): what has the impact of Chinese investment in Zambia been on:

    a) Poverty levels
    b) Unemployment levels
    c) Tax revenues
    d) Labour standards
    e) Enviromental standards

    Unless the government starts to address all of the above, ‘development’ is meaningless.

  28. King solomon, those are things which if you were there in those times ZCCM used to do!! Nothing special. you are just paying the so called investor to do the same thing you were doing before which is quite absurd. remember that the mines were closed due to mismanagement. What is $20m (K100bn) compared to the amounts they are making? What is that compared to the lost taxes and benefits of cash in banks in Zambia? Even your kwacha will gain, which will be good for you. Ask yourself what benefit has come to you from the mines. In any case any gain made is swallowed up by things like MMD reckless expenditures (hopeless 1.8bn on microphones and RB’s endless trips for example)

  29. #19 These ministers are afraid to make promises because they have a long history of NOT being able to keep them. They are f.o.o.l.s for laughing off people’s basic rights to food, water, shelter. That Mungomba idea was well thought out and accepted at the time because I think we had brains in power then. Right now, we are being ruled by cave men. How do normal people sit in a conference and laugh at people’s basic rights? They should all be arrested and their wealth given out to every Zambian who needs food, water, and shelter.**==

  30. We need investment that will remain in zambia not expiring ones;; we need industry in manufacturing as kaunda did, not to produce and be left without nothing. when will africans become their own people what did the chinese do to become who they are, which africans cannot do, have we stopped thinking? and begging has become our preoccupation

  31. King Solomon, the infrastructure at Lumwana is there for the investor to do business. Without it they cant do their trade so dont brag about it. Have you been to Solwezi to see whether its developing for the better. To me its just a shanty town. No proper planning poor road network. Do you even know how much revenue the mines make? and how much taxes they pay? During ZCCM days the roads on the copperbelt resembled a province that was producing copper. The rail network was perfecto! Squash clubs, tennis courts, cricket fields, swimming pools were floorishing. 3/4 of people who grew up on the copperbelt were involved in a sport. On top of that the other provinces also benefitted from the same copper money.

  32. Contd’ from #35
    How about today tell me what is the copper money doing? How much are we getting from the Chinese investors? For roads we are borrowing left right centre. From the chinese, Japanese and whoever else wants to make money from us. For health we are also borowing. When are we going to develop our Country from what God has given us? In Katanga Province Kabila has put no nonsense tax rates. The same rates that investors complain about here they are willing to pay in Congo.

  33. Deuteronomy 15:11 “For the poor will never cease to be in the land; therefore I command you, saying, ‘You shall freely open your hand to your brother, to your needy and poor in your land.’

    Mark 14:7 “For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me.

    So how do you help the poor? By creating whatever investment that will give them jobs so that they do not get into the Poverty trap. By the way, some people always think beeing poor and poverty are the same No!!!! Okay one leads into the other but they are not the same. And Jesus never said Poverty shall always be with you…He said the poor shall be with you… Welldone Musokotwane…

  34. Good Evening

    Interesting to note the Minister’s appeal that “Zambians should concentrate more on the benefits that come with Chinese investment other than the negatives.” but he does not list these benefits in detail.

    People are tired of only reading about the benefits of investment, they want to see them aswell! What good is investment if it only benefits the investors and a handful of Zambians but does not feed the majority?

  35. The Chinese are the ones who should be proud because they are exploiting Zambians due to the ineptitude of the MMD government.Zambia does not need China,the Chinese need Zambia.We have the goods, they have the money let them pay and we keep the money.One does not need a PhD to do these maths.Zambia needs to follow examples of countries like Brazil, Venezuela and Bolivia where the leadership has taken control of their citizens welfare making sure the resources are benefiting citizens not foreign infestors like in docile Zambia.The daft and inept Zambian government dances to infestor tunes at the expense of Zambian’s welfare.These demonons do not deserve to govern but to be hanged for selling off our nation’s God given wealth to foreigners.

  36. What development s he bragging about? Go to copper belt and see the road net work, you will cry baba. This is development to these dwarf ministers!! China is busy taking our copper free of charge and we are happy about that as if we have no brains, really we are worse blacks who have lost a sense of dignity and respect. Shame on all of you.

  37. DELEGATES at the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) on Wednesday laughed at and rejected the Mung’omba clause that sought to give every person a right to have access to food and water.

    The delegates also rejected a clause that could have given every person a right to adequate shelter and housing.

    Article 74 (1) of the Mung’omba draft constitution states that: “Every person has the right to be free from hunger and to have access to food in adequate quantities, of adequate quality and cultural acceptability.”

    But the Human Rights Committee of the NCC revised the clause and proposed it to read: “Every person has the right to have access to food and water.”

  38. Nevertheless, both clauses were rejected on grounds that they were not tenable in the Zambian set up.
    As soon as Human Rights Committee chairperson Enock Mulembe started reading out the clause, several delegates burst into laughter with some of them passing running commentaries on the rationality of the clause.

    The laughter went on for a few minutes before NCC chairperson Chifumu Banda interrupted and allowed Mulembe to read on.

    The majority chose not to debate the clause except to laugh it off.
    But commissioner Noriana Muneku argued that it was not good for the delegates to just sit there and delete clauses even when the situation did not demand so.

    “This clause is a good one because we can’t have a nation without access to water. We cannot afford to sit in here and start…

  39. “This clause is a good one because we can’t have a nation without access to water. We cannot afford to sit in here and start sanctioning that such and such a clause be deleted. We all know that every person needs water and food for their survival, and I think the clause deserves our support,” debated Muneku.
    Clementina Chipeta from the United Liberal Party argued that every person needed food in spite of their status in society.

    “Chairperson, this clause is non-controversial and we must support it. We have friends and relatives in prisons who also need food. It is a basic human right that should be granted to them regardless of their condition,” debated Chipeta.

    And several delegates argued that guaranteeing people a right to shelter and housing was not tenable in our…

  40. Chairperson, this clause is non-controversial and we must support it. We have friends and relatives in prisons who also need food. It is a basic human right that should be granted to them regardless of their condition,” debated Chipeta.

    And several delegates argued that guaranteeing people a right to shelter and housing was not tenable in our economy.

    Article 73 (1) of the Mung’omba draft constitution states that: “Every person has the right to have access to adequate shelter and housing.”

    But justice deputy minister Todd Chilembo described the clause as utopian.

  41. “I think this clause is utopian. Even Kaunda and his humanist regime did not have this dream. You are talking of good shelter with bathing shower and toilet for every person, how possible is that? We don’t want to live in an utopian society,” argued Chilembo.

    Commissioner Able Chilukuta from Nchelenge district council argued that the clause would promote laziness.
    “This clause should not be in the constitution. If adopted, this clause will impact negatively on people who pay tax. Already a few people are burdened with tax and if we adopt this clause then we are saying that these people should be taxed more in order for the government to provide shelter to everyone. We should not promote clauses that encourage laziness.

  42. The other thing also is that we have got a different category of people that will need shelter. We are saying that even a mad person will go to government and say ‘I need descent shelter’; so this clause should be rejected,” debated Chilukuta.
    After voting, both clauses were overwhelmingly rejected by the conference.

  43. such regulations as suggested by mung omba would benefit the country in alot of ways.the right to have access to food and water and shelter and housing would also stimulate the economy by creating jobs.surely even the most stu pid person can understand the dual benefits to the regulation.the dogs(MMD) perhaps we should them hyenas(bachimbwi) need to understand that laws create prosperity i.e. if there was a law saying electrical products can only be installed by qualified electricians,then jobs would be created for that profession.what has bachimbwi done to stimulate the economy.

  44. Hallo guys, i was incacerated for some time, long story. But i am back now. Were is the tonga guy with a lot of economics sounding titiles after his name ? lets debate with respect.
    God bless zambia.

  45. Please go the this week in pictures and see the Development that the chines have brought, that king ati SOLO go see the last picture and see the real Zambia then we can talk

  46. Isn’t it clear that these neoliberal politicians are:

    a) elitists
    b) looking out for the mining companies over the people at all times
    c) nasty

    These neoliberal MMD politicians could not show more disdain for the voters of the country if they tried.

    Able Chilikuta: ” We are saying that even a mad person will go to government and say ‘I need descent shelter’ ”

    Heaven forbid, the mentally ill would have a place to stay other than the street.

    These people need to be thrown out of office FAST.

  47. The new fad in town is people who claim to know what is happening on the ground. They spend half their time talking to themselves and the barman, and yet claim that on the ground everybody is for the opposition. Interestingly when you challenge such people with facts they melt away, but just a warning: if they are in large enough numbers they are more likely to turn violent than melt away.

  48. I am surprised at the level of ignorance here. The Soviet Union collapsed because of such thinking. So, if the ‘right” is included in the Constitution what will it mean? All the thriving economies including China have allowed the private sector to thrive. How many of us Zambians have thought of setting up a company in Zambia to provide clean water? By the way, all water utilities in the country are now supposed to run as independent entities. The Post editorial is misplaced and shallow – as always.

  49. Katie good, I tried to make sense of what you wrote but could not. You support the MMD, thats a fact, What do you think of them laughing at an extremly reasonable proposition. Go to pictures of the week and look at the last picture,is that what you call development? #54,I dont understand where you are coming from or heading.educate me please. Answer the questions i asked kate.Are you an MMD supporter?

  50. Not sure if this academic Minister is refering to Indian as bigger economies. Am yet to hear of any significant investing from bigger economies, but only hear of chinese or Indian.

    Maybe Musokotwane thinks he is in a Lecture room, comeone the reality is different. You only have Chinese and Indians Investing people and not money in this economy. What a fuss and shame

  51. No right to adequate shelter and housing + No right to access clean water and toilets + No right to compensation when infected with HIV in Mazabuka Gel Gate Scandal = No right to Public Health in Zambia!
    Ati “Utopian!” Can only be an equation in a continent shaped like a question mark (?) that has the unenviable task of putting to reality the WHO Millenium Development Goals that address poverty, shelter, housing, clean water, sanitation, infections….Let us stop there!! 😕

  52. Russia assures Zambian students
    By YANDE KAPEYA

    THE Russian Government has assured the safety of all Zambian students studying in that country.

    Deputy Head of Mission at the Russian Embassy in Zambia Andrey Stolyarov said his Government is saddened with the recent killing of a Zambian student, Lance Mate, in that country.

    Mr Stolyarov said this in Lusaka yesterday when some students from the University of Zambia Students Union (UNZASU) marched to the embassy to present a petition over Mr Mate’s death.

    Mr Mate went missing on November 5, 2009 and was found dead last week.
    Believe this d..khead diplomat and more Zambians, Africans and Asian will die in Russia. What about the i.d.i.o.t.s who spit at Africans in the Russian metro? Unza students should have just soned…

  53. #59 Peter, you are spot on! Seconded! Public Health is about healthy blogging!
    It is one of the ways that these characters in power will learn their duties and responsibilities to their citizens!
    Look at what happened in the Mazabuka Gel Gate Scandal.
    The nation was galvanised and there was a lot of national AIDucation with MPs “tempers flare” taking the Minister of Health to task.
    Wonder what happened to those 46 women infected withHIV in the name of research. Were they compensated?
    Ati “utopian!” It is Public Health silly!:-?

  54. “And so president Levy Mwanawasa figures that poor Zambians who cannot afford to educate the children they bring into the world should keep their zips up. He cannot understand why the majority poor people in the country do not know better than to involve themselves in activities whose by-product is children. Leave sex to us the rich damn you …”

    “if people can’t afford to take care of their children, they should not have children”. “Next they will be asking government to clothe their children,” President Levy Mwanawasa, Post Newspapers 26th August 2007

  55. Guys, guys. I can show you worse pictures in china , india, russia, even in the US. one thing you fail to notice is the kid looks well fed. Wearing dirty rugged clothes is not a phenomenon unique to Zambia, pleas pipo you have to accept that not every one is welloff in our country ,there are some who will go without, that is capitalisim. Zambia is not a communist state were every one is expected to be on the same level.

  56. 63 you live in the uk, you know every one here affords three meals a day, and you cannot talk about clothing because every one here in the uk including fools have adquate clothing in fact they dress in new ones;, there is enough money in zambia but missused by those in power ,just imagine spending colossal surms
    of money on microphones while people die of hunger in chibolya in mufulira what a shame on our leaders including those thieves on ncc they are stealing from the poor.

  57. # 63, nshilimubemba
    Nobody in zambia starves or dies of starvation, when that day comes i will mitigate a cu-de-tat aginst GRZ. even in the dark days of FJT not a single zambian died of hunger. As i say only in communist Zambia would all citzenry wear nike track suits. End of the day that boy looks healthy.

  58. kc I can see that you have not been in the government hospitals to see children of kwashiorkor and marasmus die, simply from the lack of basic nutrition or food. AIDS has not made it any easier, as those little bodies are put in coffins for their final resting grounds. May their souls rest in peace!
    Many African governments have failed in addressing the Millenium Development Goals due to lack of political will, inertia or simply comfortable in their own comfort zones!
    For some families, having a decent meal in a day is an achievement! [-o<

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