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Convicted former head of state should not forfeit his gratuity, NCC

By editor
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The Executive Committee of the National Constitutional Conference-NCC- has rejected recommendations that a convicted former head of state forfeits his gratuity.

The committee decided to strike out Article 137 5C after a heated debate on Thursday morning.

The NCC members with opposing views only toned down when Justice Permanent Secretary, Getrude Imbwae intervened with a legal interpretation.

Ms Imbwae explained that accrued rights of any individual can not be taken away unconstitutionally.

She said the relevant criminal laws would fully deal with erring individuals without necessary attaching their accrued rights such as gratuity and pension.

Earlier, NCC commissioners Vincent Mwale, Edwin Sakala, Daniel Munkombwe, Richard Kapita and others opposed the provisions of Article 137 5C.

On the Other hand, Commissioners Mukondo Lungu,, Reverend David Masupa, Pastor Peter Mulenga and Mwiya Limata supported the forfeiture of gratuity.

[ZNBC]

editor
editorhttp://www.lusakatimes.com

132 COMMENTS

  18. I am begining to wonder. chaps are always on computers and warming seats. even before LT finishes posting a plagiarised story, your are already nambala One. shame. unproductive pipo. you will soon develop sores on your backsides coz of too much sitting!!!

  19. Good job NCC. Correct interpretation of the law is what we need not this behaviour by people who like discussion issues with useless points when they atcually do not understand what is really at stake.

    Thanks NCC and keep doing a noble job.

    Remember that you, NCC, must conclude your work this july so that we can have your recommendations enacted by Parliament to help us have an updated Zambian Republican Constitution before 2011 tripatite elections.

    ===
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =; for Zambia in 2011.

  24. This NCC will never end, these MMD-selected people are just enjoying their allowances. Ma labish ma labish where is our country going please…

  27. Some of the recommendations by the NCC are bad. they are aimed at sirencing the opposition.
    Eg, they are recommending that “MPs expelled from their party should not lose their seat in Parliamet”. I think this whole thing of NCC is very rediculous

  28. This is sensible. It is sad that the others on NCC wanted to build a Constitution targeted at FTJ Chiluba. This is the mentality that has resulted in us having constitution commissions with every presidency. Thanks for people like Ms Imbwae

  33. People you comments are contrary to the story can we please just exchange e-mail addresses so that we can start communicating. Don’t send these cheap comments!!!!! :-@

  34. Bloggers,lets be serious and discuss matters at hand.Am appalled to see that from #1 to #15 no meaningful contribution has been made.Whats going on?if you still need to think before posting something please take your time rather than wasting space.

  37. I disagree with you Careless I contend that comments #3 and #5 are simply shorthand versions of serious comments :d

  38. #27 RJ,

    Ati how boyi?Check yo mail i ve jst send something interesting.

    I watched the debate it was quiet interesting though commissiners never said a word.I liked the contributions of Mr.Taima.

  40. #24, Sony,please try to speak on matters you are familiar with. No NCC delegate was picked by MMD apart from their own 6 party representatives assigned to each political Party belonging to the Zambia centre for inter-Party Dialoque.

    All other delegates were selected by their own organisations eg, Economics Association of Zambia, Law Association of Zambia, Zambia Congress of TRade Unions, Zambia Chambers of Commerce, Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia, Christion Council etc….

    When we fail to go by facts, we consequently fail to arrive at the right decision. This kills our country.

  42. Theft by public servant, doesn’t the calprit lose his/her entitlements be it pension etc, why should it be any different for presidents. remember as president they enjoy immunity so what ever crimes committed can only be prosecuted retrospectively that is once they leave office. YEAH they should forfeit their pension.

  45. 19
    Thank God this contributor is a tonga. I pity their presidential product called HH. He will never ever be a President of this country, not until this generation of tongas like this guy called Maestro are long gone.
    Long live the God that will make it difficult for HH to rule Zambia in his life time.
    This is funny that the delegates to NCC feel that the convicted individual should not lose benefits. Imagine stealing from a company and, get fired and go to prison, but when you come out YOU GET YOUR BENEFIT AND PENSION. IT TRULY IS THAT ZAMBIA IS THE REAL AFRICA – WE ARE STILL IN THE BUSH.

  50. 40. NKOLE WA MAPEMBWE I am familiar with the background to PF’s opposition to the NCC. The NCC is not representative of the people due to the skewed (in favour of MMD interests) allocation/appointment of votes to certain organisations – this is why PF is opposed. **==

  61. 22. Nine Chale and subsquent bloggers who referred to me above, thank you and take care. Later in the day.

    ===
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =; for Zambia in 2011.

  66. when the people’s project is eroded by the greed of the treacherous sojourner in the name of FTJ, he ego rejuvenated, did he think of jail. now apart from the 1 million shoes and underwears made to fit which he has, he has to continue getting his emoluments even while in Chimbokaila. guess the office of the second rep president would be at Chimbokaila

  70. “The Executive Committee of the National Constitutional Conference-NCC- has rejected recommendations that a convicted former head of state forfeits his gratuity”.. NCC careful with the wording in the constitution. You need to be clear if it has to with offenses committed while in office. The story sounds like whether those offenses were committed during or after office the guy loses his entitlement. Which is rather absurd. The point is that you can only make one lose their benefit if the committed crime is financial irregularity or theft of assets. Any other criminal acts are adequately addressed in our laws.

  71. Let us for once be non partisan on this issue. The point said ‘.. that accrued rights of any individual can not be taken away unconstitutionally.’ is an interesting one. What are the implications of that position or is it law?

  72. China is very right in executing corrupt public officials and I would be overjoyed if Zambia did the same to $-) and b-)

  73. What is so difficult with any head of state coming out clean? Only the guilty ones are afraid. Let them lose benefits period. Soon I will propose that no benefits for MPs who do not perform as promised.

  77. I believe the issue is about crimes committed whilst serving as head of state. The statement by the lady seems to imply that only the courts can grant that his entitlements be stripped from him after the due process of the law. Other that, there appears nothing much to scream about.

    Otherwise, we might as well set up statehouse at chimbokaila as Lady chiza’s legs has said.

  78. 73
    That is what i have always said time and time again. What criteria do we use to measure whether an MP has performed or not. Most of them live their entire life in parliament dozing or just acknowledging what they do not understand and end up getting gratuity.

  79. Cont. #70.
    This brings me to the other HOT NCC proposal: “MPs expelled from their party shouldn’t lose their seats” – The post. The suggestion that they should remain Independents lacks merit. It will encourage indiscipline in our parties. An ailing MP will hold his party at ransom with impunity knowing that he still retain his seat even if expelled. It will also dilute right of political parties to sponsor candidates to Parliament as well as to discipline them. Am aware of the huge bye-election bill that the current setup has brought. Here is the alternative: Let the second best losing candidate take the seat.

  80. #79 I agree, they are just trying to make the opposition toothless and powerless to maintain discipline – fired needs to mean fired or parliament is a joke. The only fair alternative is a bye-election tho…

  82. #79 what if they added the clause for the constituency to recall an MP through a petition by registered voters in the country, will that not be better than attaching an MP to the party. Parties in Zambia are controlled by individuals. I want MPs answerable to people who voted them into power and not answerable to a party

  84. Cont.#79
    Here is the alternative: Let the second best losing candidate take the seat.
    This way if the MP abrogates party rules he knows he will lose the seat to his opponent. The party will also know that victimizing and expelling MPs on flimsy grounds will not only make them lose a seat but will also boost the opponent party’s strength. In the end this will encourage dialogue and enhance conflict management in our parties. It will be good for our intra party and national democracy.

  87. What do these people take Zambians for/ Ordinary workers lose thier benefits if they are dismissed on disciplinary grounds. Who do these people think they are. Some one steals USA$6million and on top of that that you give him more. No wonder Sata and proper churhes refused to be part of this charade.

  89. Iam tired of these commisions. I have never seen the results of any commision apart from the reviews of the same commisions. What ever they agree on I dont care because there are of no paramount use to me. ABASH COMMISIONS!!! :(:(

  90. 79. Twachula pafula greetings, I agree to your point “Let the second best losing candidate take the seat.” However, I feel we can do by letting the seat remain empty until the end of five years. This will teach opposition parties not to expell their members anyhow.
    Also, let the NCC consider to reduce the terms of office of President, Vice-president and MPs to 3 years only. This will make the sitting goverments perform in the short time as they will seek re-ection to have a full 6 years 2 Terms mandate. 10 years to 2 Terms to be ruled by uncaring cahracters is too much time. Also, we are 12 millinon and it is time to be exchanging power so that a considerable part of the Z.s can taste too.

  91. do not create laws with someone in mind!!!

    I can see it!!!

    Too bad!!!!

    If someone steals let them be punished!!! why pay them? and when they misused public money or our money or ZED money

  92. Typical of Zambians
    We will be debating to the grave about this and that.
    We are always finishing poorly.

    Football
    Constitution
    Stadium building
    Educational facilities, still at 2 universities to talk about, not the ntemba varsities
    Poor roads and railways. Zambians – debaters to death

  95. Theres no need to even try the plunderers if at the end of the day they will still enjoy looted money. close gown task force just like Gitmo.

  96. Simple lesson to NCC members.

    Whenever you are coming up with a new law, it is because you have identified something that you would like addressed.

    eg. If it is the issue of deffection, what would you like to see? More or less deffections? we all know most if not all deffections are from the opposition to the ruling party for obvious reasons.

    Do not enact laws like you will always be in power!!

    History will judge you!!

  98. Its good all of you bloggers know and really appreciate the direction zambia needs to take!!!

    No one can lie to you it seems…

    They think we have no power!!!

    Lets wait and judge them… Keep it up!!!

  99. Maestro Hhehhehhehhe what is the strategy boyi to be an award winner me am now tired of blogging,do you know any one at LT so that I can also grease them for an award,I want to be like you boyi?
    I also heard of your 4 degrees mwana,what medicine did you use?

  103. u ar rite KCM zambia is still in the bush. nosense after thy find you gilty, u stil get paid. zambia let us move. YES WE CAN
    FROM AB

  104. 99. kawalala greetings and on “Maestro Hhehhehhehhe what is the strategy boyi to be an award winner me am now tired of blogging,do you know any one at LT so that I can also grease them for an award,I want to be like you boyi? I also heard of your 4 degrees mwana,what medicine did you use?”
    The only answer to all your querries is WORK HARD. The Holy Bible records in Matthew 6 [King James Version] “6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” Also, for sure, I do not know anyone at LT!

    I hope this will help. Keep well and all the best.
    ===
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =; for Zambia in 2011.

  105. Chiluba should be forgiven and let God charge,why should we contribute to all his heart problems,If he had a second chance I know he wouldnt do it again.Let him have his gratuity he deserves it.

  107. Unsuitable Task Force prosecutors to go

    Vice President George Kunda has announced that some prosecutors currently on the Task Force on Corruption may soon be removed.Mr. Kunda told parliament Friday morning that government will soon revise the institutions that are spearheading the anti-corruption fight and remove individuals that may not be suitable considering ‘recent’ happenings in the country.He was responding to a question by Patriotic Front MP for Kantashi who wanted to know whether the saga involving Zambian Airways and its directors will have credibility implications on the work of the Task Force.

  108. But Mr. Kunda caused laughter in parliament when in responding he said “I thought the PF supports the Post and Zambian Airways”.Task Force chief Prosecutor Mutembo Nchito is a shareholder and CEO of Zambian Airways, while the Post Newspaper is a shareholder in the Zambian Airways and Post owner Fred Mmembe is also a director.The vice president said that the fight against corruption will continue but there will soon be changes and some people maybe sidelined.And Vice president Kunda also said that government will make monetary provision this year to address the problems being faced by Nitrogen Chemical of Zambia.

  109. And Mr. Kunda has said government will not reduce the number of ministers or deputy ministers saying cabinet is of the right size and functioning well.

    QUOTE OF THE WEEK

    “Mr. Kunda caused laughter in parliament when in responding he said “I thought the PF supports the Post and Zambian Airways”.

  110. QUOTE OF THE WEEK

    “Mr. Kunda caused laughter in parliament when in responding he said “I thought the PF supports the Post and Zambian Airways”.Don’t they have solution in their insults? How can hyenas, goons and incompetent corrupts the call redeem them the smart and wise human beings they claim to be?

  111. NCC is a joke and can only produce a joke. And we are paying these jokers how many millions? :-b Zambia is a joke :d

  112. The Whole NCC is an MMD ploy to finish off the opposition. All opposition members would want to be cabinet ministers and if this diputs law is enacted will shall end with a one party state. The MMD do not know that they could be digging their own grave. God has many ways of helping people. They think they will win 011. Oh lets wait. Theywill cry against these same diputs laws they want to make. Amen

  113. I agree with the NCC, benefits are accrued not a bonus after service.

    For everyday the President worked he was earning these benefits, however if found guilty and financially liable then these should garnished to pay for the fines or restitution just like any other employee.

  114. I think there is something wrong somewhere with this NCC.The characters who are sitting there are just interested in who to fix next.It is unfortunate that a very serious and important document will be made by such characters.As much as i do not support the plunder that was on our national resources by Chiluba,i also that its wrong and evil to treat Chiluba like this.He is entiled to his gratuity and the man has suffered enough.His healthy has not been good,he is in court every now and then.The only country abroad which Chiluba has been going to is South Africa for his medication.So lets not have hearts of crocodiles but those of human beings.

  117. Heads of state found guilty of plundering national resources should not be given a ngwee when they leave office. How else are we going to teach those who aspire for public office for the purpose of getting rich?

  118. On #114,i meant as much as i dont support the plunder on our national resources by Chiluba,i also think its wrong and evil to treat Chiluba like this.

  119. Christmas Bell
    This is an awesome e-mail. Someone took a lot of time setting up this message.
    THE BELL
    I KNOW WHO I AM
    I am God’s child (John 1:12)
    I am Christ’s friend (John 15:15 )
    I am united with the Lord (1 Cor. 6:17)
    I am bought with a price (1 Cor 6:19-20)
    I am a saint (set apart for God). (Eph. 1:1)
    I am a personal witness of Christ. (Acts 1:8)
    I am the salt & light of the earth (Matt 5:13-14)
    I am a member of the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:27)
    I am free forever from condemnation ( Rom. 8: 1-2)
    I am a citizen of Heaven. I am significant (Phil 3:20)
    I am free from any charge against me (Rom. 8:31 -34)
    I am a minister of reconciliation for God (2 Cor 5:17-21)
    I have

  121. #116,iwe Deja Vu. Mulekwatako umtima uwabumunthu.Dont think that the mental toture that Chiluba has gone through for the past 10years is enough punishment?Chiluba has not ejoyed life for the past 10 years he has been out of office.Bushe mwaba shani mwe banthu?lets just forgive Chiluba.If anything even what the task force is recovering,we are not sure where the money is going.

  122. I agree with the NCC. Same thing used to happen in the ZCCM days. When you got fired for theft crimes, you forfeited your pension entitlements (which were earned through hardwork). Earnings are earnings, everyone deserves them even a thief because they toiled for them. If however, the conviction has to do with how the gratuity was earned and the court rules that the gratuity be forfeited. The viva forfeiture.
    Chiluba was our president and may have done certain things while in office. But has been found guilty. A big NO. Therefore let’s wait for the courts to do their job. Emotionalism awe!!

  123. #82 Papa J, your response to #79 is right but it will still lead to bye-elections and some political parties and individuals can still manipulate the Voters just to have the incumbent MP chucked out. How do you look at #84.
    #86 Sony, lets look beyond PF and MMD or even our generation. The constitution must not only be focused on the present but the future as well.
    #90 Maetro, greetings too. Leaving the seat vacant til next polls will rob pipo of representation. we may also end up with few bootlickers and sycophants in parliament.

  124. 107,108, 109, 110 Senior Citizen, I liked your contribution. Let Vice President’s words clear some of us. In fact, I will be waiting to hear for a Response from the POST and their attendant friends.

    ===
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =; for Zambia in 2011.

  125. 123. Twachula pafula thanks, I hear you, but think otherwise.

    I will now leave for a Sabbath recess (Genesis 1:5, Ezekiel 20:20, Hebrews 4:4-7 and Ephesians 4:4-6).

    ===
    LT 2008 Award Winner. =; for Zambia in 2011.

  128. this the year to have children 2009 there OXs will pay off when they grow up. Hard working can do tough jobs with no problems. Chinese Zodiac China is doing good they follow this am telling you.Do blush off info check into it .

  129. BANE KAWALALA NIKAWALALA.IMPUUPU NI MPUUPU.LET US NOT BIT ABOUT THE BUSH.NO WONDER THEY SAY ZAMBIANS FORGET SO EASILY .FREDRICK TITUS CHILUBA IS A THIEF,POMPWE MUNSHIBILA NSALA.IT’S A PITTY TO HEAR PEOPLE ASKING THE NATION TO FORGIVE THIS CRIMINAL.ASK GRZ PENSIONEES OR THOSE THAT USED TO WORK FOR PARASTATALS AND WERE RETRENCHED.MAY BE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO FORGIVE HIM. ISAMBI TAKWABA ILIKULU NANGU ILINONO.LESA WA BONSE.

  131. For how long are you going to continue talking about FTJ ? Days, weeks, Months and years have alapsed talking about the same issue without evidence/ proof of the accusations against him. Some of you people who claim to be christians are devils and it is apparently true that you are the people who kill others and steal by using the precious name of the son of God. You open the Bible and read with tears in order to hide your hidden agenda, the true picture of your counter christian intentions and reactions. may the Son of God come soon so that he will reveal the filthy that is hidden in you. Come Lord Jesus and please, Bless the most hated FTJ in Zambia.

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