Shamenda challenged to state which law he’ll use to prosecute Employers, the law provides for termination on redundancy

1. shamende just 9months ago he was languishing in Ndola and he now thinks everyone can hire a maid for not less than K520,000

2. can any one with legal sound knowledge assist the hyenas which law to proscute employers concerning the minimum wage issue

3. summer winter swallow never went to a law school but he is layer and give very wrong legal advice

4. this mr h chibanda is a big let down and dull (or just lazy). Every leigislation has penalties for failure to comply. The SI stipulating minimum wage is part of the law on labor matters. Non Compliance is a prosecutable offense which he should have been aware of. His attempt to mislead people on dialogue is sad state of affairs especially, him speaking for employers, the most favored of the tripartite labor grouping of all. There is no statutory instrument that is ever signed without the contributions of stake holders, it is unheard of. He should start behaving like a mature professional employer rather than a politician dancing and singing out of tune. Chibanda is behaving like a dull child

   • Kaingo, you can download this SI no. 47 of 2012 and there are no penalties prescribed. Your statement that it is unheard of to sign SI’s without the contribution of stakeholders says it all – it has just happened. Unless you’re saying that the unions were consulted and they just can’t remember. Since you’re so knowledgeable, would you be kind enough to tell us what the penalties are for non-compliance with this SI.

   • i have this SI and there are no penalties there.

   • kaingo S.I. No. false pretence

   • Dear fellow Zambians and my good friend Kaingo. The Zambia Federation of Employers has not at any time said that workers should not have a salary increment. What you should know is that every year employers give salary increments to their employees mostly through collective Bargaining process and for those covered under the minimum wages a salary increment can be given but surelly not 68 to 100 percent in one year.
     My Friend Kaingo should know that much as there is a penaulty to ayn employer for not complying with Statutory Instruments on Minimum Wages, there is no law or pernault to any employer who decides to lay off employees following the retrenchment clause in the Employment Act and the termination of contract by notice which is also provided for in the same Employment Act.

5. In the Hyena world the law that will be used is called the law of the jungle! If you violate it the hyaena will bite you!

6. Just pay them. You Chibanda (Ghost) you are given employees allowance and you only pay your workers small money, where do you take the other moneys? Just pay them infact you are demanding more money from your employers while domestic workers have no voice

7. @kapandula, the hyenas will not accept ANY assistance, they FEEL they are law to themselves. But their time to account will come, actually not far from now …..

8. You ZFE chap just convince us with relevant data instead of comparing the minister with liato. That is insolence of the highest order. I now understand why Minister shamenda said you are poltical.

   • Dogs talk

   • yes these days we dogs talk! Ask watchdog, snoop dog, scooby doo,they are all dogs…

9. number one, after decades

10. All of you working abroad were running away from low wages. Now that you are out there you want to hinder progress! You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. What Shamenda has done is the RIGHT thing to do; support him.

    • I am with you. I don’t see why some Zambians want to keep others down in poverty.

      Sad!

11. Iam daft when it comes to the Law but I think he can use the Same Statutory instrument , but I again I could be wrong. I will wait for that chap called Munshya Something  who write columns on this site to unpack this for us. he is better at explaining these complex issues 

12. Chibanda is being dull. Redundancy and failure to pay a worker a minimum wage are two different things. While employers cannot be prosecuted for declaring workers redundant; they can be for paying less than the minimum wage. Liato was corrupt and he paid a deaf hear to workers concerns. Shamenda has a concern for the workers while Liato’s concern was to make his pocket full. Chibanda should worn up- Boma ni boma; they will find a law to prosecute. Can someone check how much Chibanda is paying his maid so that he becomes the first to be prosecuted.

    • Imwe Bashi K,

      Dont express your ignorance on matters you do not understand.  Shamenda was threatening to prosecute employers who declare workers redundant because of the increase in minimum wage. They are not saying they will not pay the minimum wage but basically that they will have to declare some chaps redundant to cover up. That is what this dull Shamenda of yours was threatening and this is the whole story. Dont just comment from without. Read and understand with a sound background.

    • I have said it all, country man

    • Then why not prosecute fellow ministers for not paying Zambia Airways workers for past 18 years? :d Usual old-boy network?

13. Hard to believe that Shamenda was a unionist before but is now making critical decisions without any consultations. Labour matters world over are a pinacle of consultations because you are dealing with people’s lives. It is clear to me that Shamenda is a failure and one is not surprised that ZCTU is a failed organization only a vehicle for a few individuals aimed at self-aggrandizement. Such a failure deserves to be in a job where he/she will need to work alone because consultations are beyond his mindset.

14. ah ah ah Mr Chibanda, you dare to compare and suggest that Hon Liato of “the previous MMD government” was better than Hon Shamenda? My God, my boy just wait for a response from Hon Shamenda!

15. Oh just re-read the story again, I think most people are missing the point Mr Chibanda is trying to put across. What Mr Chibanda is saying is that we shall fire the people we can’t afford to pay and that the law allows employers  to do so.

    You cannot sue somebody for firing someone using the SI. Yes the SI can be used to enforce the compliance of minimum wage.

    So Mr Chibanda is saying to the Minister that we have two choices, comply or just fire workers as redundant and keep a small workforce and throwing the gauntlet to the minister to prosecute them on that score.

    I think on this one,  it is Chibanda 1 Shamenda 0

    Dialogue is always vital. This is like an argument with your wife, even if you win the argument, you still lose 

    • there are a lot employers, including yourself maybe (if you have a maid/s), who may fail to meet the minimum wage requirements, the Minister has the power to waiver you from complying but ask you to pay that which is REASONABLE. Mr Chibandas behavior is like that of a child, its this or nothing. If his company has no capacity to meet minimum wage and he is truthful why not apply to the Minister of Labor for waiver or exemption like other employers do. Negotiations for minimum wage compliance is an ongoing quest and may vary with situations specific to employers business state. Creation of a baseline for negotiation is fundamental to the protection of employee interest. Chibandas statement is not a responsible one, and using the media as an employer to discuss such a matter may simply

    • he provoke his employees into a revolt and ground his investments with such statements

    • Kaingo, why are you defending Shamenda so much? There’s nowhere in the SI where exemptions are mentioned. Looks to me like you’re working as a Maid or Gardener – just own up.

    • Bobby you are very interesting. try to read before you say things. exemptions are there in the law, can you read the Sections I gave you. Such simple my friend

    • And Shamenda as ex union employee should stand up to President and VP and demand payment of terminal benefits to Zambia Airways employees after 18 years. Only after that it can be taken seriously.

16. But even if you can afford to pay a maid at the minimum wage rate, if you yourself dont feel compelled to pay that and decide to forego the maid’s services and pay her her benefits, there is nothing that the govt can do. After all it is your money. And I dont see how the govt will have the administrative capacity required to implement this directive. Am sure there will be a lot of back door agreements between the maids and employers which will effectively render the minimum wage directive unenforceable.

17. The decision by government to put in place a mechanism for workers to receive realistic wages is commendable. Now these money-bag characters, being by nature stingy, are resisting. Its government’s priority duty to consider the welfare of the majority vulnerable groups first rather than waste its valuable time paying attention to the minority fat cats.

    • I like your choice of words, the govts’ move is great, there will be challenges of course but at the end of the day, a decent wage worthy of human existence and dignity is everyones’ right. There are many ‘fat cats’ who have the capacity to pay more but will not! Do we say ‘half a loaf is better than none?’ Let’s look at it from another perspective, quantity vs quality, do we accept a 100+ pupils in a class? The result is half baked pupils. Let’s get real.

      On this, the govt is right.

18. Ghost what is the matter? More money in your pocket

19. these fools used to be corrupt with the employers and some govt officers so that workers right were infringed .no wander the minister did not consult them.liato was the useless minister who never protected workers working for chinese.liato defended the chinese who shot the workers at mine in s/province. so bachibanda akalilo kapwa.viva mr shamenda and the pf GOVT. abash Zambia Fake Employers (ZFE)

20. Nothiome sensible has ever come out of Shamenda’s dirty mouth since he he became Minister. I wonder whether he has any consideration for other people’s views and opinions. It is this arrogance that will lead to his imminent downfall.

21. Has His Excellency Michaeal Chilufya Sata our beloved leader made a public appearance  since his return from the UK yet?

    • “Our beloved leader”?? Speak for yourself and say “my beloved leader”. I have respect for him but I wouldn’t refer to him as my beloved leader.

    • Ok, my Dear Leader! Ha ha ha ha.

22. Poor people are are not considered to be human beings. When there`s a function in hotels pegged at K5,000,000:00 per head these people the Chibandas of this world don`t complain they just pay with their patterners. But when it comes to pay a poor Maid K520,000:00 it becomes a problem. Liato was rotten and that`s why he had no where to keep the same he corruptly acquired. Bravo Shamenda!!!

23. The same law as previously! Under MMD government! You can make people redundant, only you have to pay them their terminal benefits, nothing has changed. PF hasn’t created any new laws here, it’s the same old ones

24. The current law states that you can’t just fire people. No new law has been made

25. Too much pot smoking in Zambia. At least wait for the leaves to dry completely, it is less potent!

    • =))=))=))

    • Nansense, Nubian Princess my foot!!

26. Mr Chibanda should challenge the minister with facts. he should lay bare the law and expose its weakness. he should not just shoot from the hip

    • Mr. Chibanda has said there’s no law Shamenda can use to punish non-compliant employers. The onus is now on Shamenda to come up with the facts – under which law panalties can be applied. FYI, no penalties have been prescribed by this SI. In law, you don’t have to prove you’re innocent, the prosecutor has to prove you’re guilty.

27. Of course they can be made redundant, only their terminal benefits must then be paid in full, this has been the case for many years and it is nothing new

28. #13 Wadya. We seem to be missing the point here. #1 Naiwe, awe! But one thing is truly clear from this government: they have quickly forgotten where they came from only 9 months ago and appear to be know-it-alls in every field. I wish them luck.

29. Redund ancy is provided for, but meaning you must pay terminal benefits

30. Kapandula read “the minimum wages and conditions of employment act chapter 276 of laws of Zambia” you can find this on Ministry of Labor website (mlss.gov.za). Section 3(1) to Section 4 of this Act, gives authority to prosecute persons found not complying with the provisions of the SI. It is straight forward, there can never be law without penalty for failure to comply, then it ceases to be law

    • This specifically excludes domestic workers as follows – “This Order shall apply to all employees except employees- (a) of the government of the Republic of Zambia;

      (b) engaged in domestic service; (c) of District Councils; or

      (d) in occupations where wages and conditions of employment are regulated through the process of collective bargaining under the Industrial and Labour Relations Act”. Kaingo, don’t be selective in the info you’re giving us.

    • Bobby read Sections 3(1) – 4

31. Ba Ricky Bobby you cant find penalties in a SI, thats not the way Law is written. You need to find the basis of the SI, which the Law that gives the Minister the authority to come up with statutory instruments, it is there where you will find the penalties too. Read The Employment Act Chapter 276 of Laws of Zambia, Section 3(1) to 4. You will find all answers to your thoughts

    • Kaingo, SI no. 33 on the use of the US$ in Zambia actually prescribes the penalty for anyone not complying with that particular SI (a fine not exceeding 100 000 penalty units or imprisonment not exceeding 10 years) so I don’t know what makes you think SI’s can’t have penalties indicated. I’ve got that Employment Act and it specifically excludes domestic workers.

32. Now I have understood why Chibanda is so adamant. He was used to MMD’s corrupt minds. That is why he is praising a convict in the name of Liato. How much do some companies make at the expense of poor Zambians? If you have no capacity to pay your maid / gardenboy the proposed minimum wage do not employ. Find your relatives to do the work at home and enslave them. Ba fi colour.

33. It’s possible to let employees go – the question is then benefits. Also a question of how your business is going to operate without staff

34. MAYBE I HAVE MISSED A POINT, WHAT ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT? IS IT BECAUSE IT CONCERNS MAIDS? WHEN YOUR MONEY WAS INCREASED BY THE MINES AND OTHER ORGANISATIONS, YOU ULULATED AND DANCED YOUR LUNGS OUT. IF YOU WANT TO EMPLOY, EMPLOY AND PAY AND IF YOU ARE LIKE ME AND DONT HAVE MONEY, DISCHARGE THE MAID/GARDENER PERIOD.

35. ZFE is corrupt they are just talking crap.

36. Its sad that some people putting up urguments are short focussed and not looking at holistic view MMD boot licker has harmered the point head on. wait until we fire our maids and SMS workers and you will realise how grave the issue is.Shamenda yes was just languishing in ndola and is now short sighted. please minister be level headed or you tannish the image of PF.He increases over 100% for general workers thinking that we are all Shoprite. He should have noted case by case. Please …be realistic. i believe the minister has relatives that are working as maids and now risk loosing job. this weekend for example am offloading my garden boy so that his liitle pay i add to the maid.i will tell him to go to Shamenda to find work

37. The problem in Zambia is there are too many dull people some with degrees. The problem here is not the conformity to the SI. and not maids a lot of maids get almost 500,000 nowadays but the other workers who have gone to over a million and chibanda is not saying they will not abide by the SI but saying when a business feels they cant afford to pay three workers according to the SI. they would rather fire one and meet the cost of the remaining two and there is no law against this its purely business profitability analysis where you manage your cost. The SI has added the costs and the business pipo have to manage their costs in order to remain in business or else close down

38. sorry i meant SME-Small Medium Enterprise and not SMS

39. If only we had insisted on a minimum requirement of a degree  and sound physical and mental health for any person aspiring to be president!

40. LT please teach Zambia Watch Dog to improve their sight,the comments of the really take long to reflect and it seems Zambia Watch Dog is the campaigning site for small political parties.

41. Grz has thrown their responsibility to put more money in peoples pockets,to us.

42. LIATO BETTER!!!!! God have mercy on our land.The guy buried cash and did nothing for the workers but kept kissing the asses of employers

43. This minimum wage thing is the reason people in developed countries cannot afford domestic workers. If this govt is reducing numbers in this market (cos fewer people will afford to employ) then they must ensure other openings for work are made available elsewhere. This is a beginning and not an end. The minister has to tell us where we’re going from here.

44. Bwana Shamenda there’s no need to respond to Chibanda’s challenge. Just enforce the law. More money in people’s pockets and less money for Chibanda to flash around on his concubines. How he complies with the law is up to him. Ignore the shallow analysis presented in some of the comments above.

45. Anyone starting a business that employs a number of people usually has more more money than the people he employs. If we assume that, prior to getting jobs from this investor, most of the employees were jobless then it follows that the job-creator has contributed towards putting more money in peoples’ pockets despite paying low salaries. To  call the investor stingy is misplaced. A business can only grow if money coming in from its activities is more than money going out to pay salaries, rentals, bills for various services. China is doing better than the west because costs of production are lower than in the west where even the unemployed are guaranteed a welfare allowance or free meals. We can try to copy the west but our economy survives partially on aid.  

46. Shamenda and his minions failed to address the issue of workers at Zambia Sugar and said its an internal matter and that GRZ can not come in when they wanted 35% increment and management proposed 15% now he is forcing something he failed to address with zambia sugar,what a minister we have shame on you and your unplanning GRZ we need people like Chibanda,shame old shamenda and Sata

47. Honestly Zambians why have we become so heartless to the under privileged? How much salaries are we all on average earning at the moment compared to the poor house servants who earn not more than 250,000? You mean a mere 250pin increment has to affect the economy to an extent where even the likes of Chibanda can talk so much?

48. While i support the idea but someone should have first done a critical analysis of the economic situation in the country i honestly take it as wrong timing ,ask yourself how many will be laid off as a result of this will a proper civil servant manage a salary of a maid ? I will not manage because what i get is already very little poor conditions, i will just go to the village to pick a relative simple.Good idea at a wrong time.

49. Gents
    This Federation of employers is just a bunch of thieves. The minimum wage they are complaining about is the equivalent of $300. Now that is what Chibanda spends on drinks and fuel for his Lexus every two days. Him and is friends are a heartless lot, period. Bwana Shamenda, do not argue with him and the lot, just fix them. there is only one Govt and you call the shorts. As for those who cannot afford maids and garden boys, terminate them. I am sure they will find something else to do rather than you giving them slave wages for doing your donkey work. But if you value their input, you will die a little for them Nice week end.

50. All of you supporting the Minister are only seeing one side of the coin. If employers cant pay then they have no choice but to lay off some workers. It is not rocket science, it is simple logic. If you cant pay lay off. Who suffers? the one laid off suffers. So dont just support. The Balance sheets of most Zambian companies cant manage to absorb the numbers of employees at the proposed rates, therefore in order to break even they have no choice but to lay off some workers. This is a catch 22 situation. lower the wages employ more people, hike the wages and employ less people period. If the Minister has any feeling for his people he should listen to the employers. this should be a win win situation. Forcing them to absorb employees they cant manage wont help any one including the minister.

    • One of our clients has actually confirmed he’s gonna have to lay off about thirty to forty chaps. No joke.

51. Dont worry guyz more job losses. Just fired my maid in order to remain with a garden boy. I cannot afford and I am sure who is benefiting now.

52. @Kaingo. Do you really understand the topic at hand or you just want to expose your ignorance. You lot in PF amaze this world, your level of understanding issues is startling to say the least. Read the topic, digest it and come back to make an informed contribution.

    • check urself @52 maybe its you who has lost it:d

53. Chibanda and Liato were getting kick backs from many companies at the expense of the workers conditions of service. They supported slave wages and poor working conditions, the buried billions must have come from the kick backs. When people are being shot at by employers, where is Chibanda? When people are not paid for months, where is the employers federation to control it’s members? If they are genuine stakeholders, they should be looking at the bad practices of their members.

    • What about when employers are getting robbed by the same employees conniving with big thieves you dull ######

54. The minister’s intentions are very noble. He needs lots of support from people like Chibanda but if they want to practice phd then they can hang!

55. The situation is as follows:
    1. If you have an employee, you cannot pay them less than the minimum wage. If you do, the law will visit you and the SI will be cited.
    2. If you cannot afford to pay the minimum wage, you can declare the employee redundant, but you must follow the correct channels of doing so, i.e. redundancy package etc.
    3. You did not ask the government for permission to hire, so you do not ask the government for permission to fire a maid.
    4. When you hire an employee, make sure that you have the terms of engagement laid out in black and white and a contract is issued. Conditions of employment and benefits must be clearly defined. If the maid is accommodated by you, you can charge rent, if fed by you, you can deduct for subsistence.

56. Kwena kukolwa uku e. I now see the kind of employers we have in this country, Very strange

57. Minimum pay bench mark is a statutory provision now and anyone who breaks would be presecuted. Redudancy is another topic all together and their is an existing laws which stipulates the rights of employees once declayed redundant. Minimum pay benchmark is also practised in the US with most states having $10.00 as the minimum any employee is expected to work for. The government is there to govern and make decision. While consultation is the wholemark of democracy, it is not a must. Otherwise the sitting govt would never make a single decision. Why the issues raised by ZFE might be right, to start comparing a sitting minister to a convicted criminal makes very sad reading. Mr Liato is a criminal! Period! The current govt have a manadate of five years. Give them a chance to govern.

58. This Shimenda must FIRED with immediate effect, he’s a disgrace to our party. He seems to fail to articulate issues.By the way we are told he used to be a ‘STREET ADULT’ in Ndola, he has already forgotten within 9 months how he used to beg for money. PF is becoming unpopular because of lack of understanding of issues.

59. How much do you chaps pay your maids and gardenboys? Someone just squealed K250,000, sad state of affairs you chaps want to live like sheiks in palaces yet you don’t want to cough up!

     I remember my gardenboy his name was Blackson Phiri, loyal hard-working lad he was, I hope your current employer is paying you above the threshold my dear friend. 

60. What Mr. Chibanda is saying is not difficult to understand. Its very simple and clear. What Mr. Chibanda is saying is that a wage is a cost, and you can only carry and maintain a cost that is sustainable. So, it is natural that employers who are uanble to pay the minimum wage will have to retrench some employees. Its unfortunate that Shamenda who has spent the rest of his life in the unions fails to follow the basic principles of implementing a minimum wage.

61. Shamenda has no brains, which is better to have a poor paying job or no job at all,may be when shaves his beards will have some brains to think properly

62. Chibanda…i ask that u close ur eyes and think thru ur words. HONESTLY ,U re always at shopping malls and everywhere…be fare. ..u can’t compare Liato..recently convicted to Hon Shamenda…not at all. Hon S has vast experience . ZFE has major issues…why do u just come on minimum wage…?…be fair for poor Zambians….are u happy to see maids and general workers walking….even failing a minibus fare…ve a heart…dont be heartless…dont start poliking these are serious issues….
    in UK…usa…maids are expensive …lets not abuse our fellow citizen..no not all…lets give a smile to these people…

    Hon shamenda experience is vast..is well known world wide.check UN ILO. and check is massive contributions ..

63. WHY IS ZFE BEING ARROGANT OVER THIS MATTER? PF HAS REALLY BROUGHT DEMOCRACY, THIS CHIBANDA CHAP, COULD HE TALK LIKE THAT IN THE LAST 4 REGIMES. LIATO WAS BETTER THAN SHAMENDA COZ THIS ***** CHIBANDA USED TO BRIBE HIM A LOT HENCE THE 2.1 BILLION STARCHED IN CAVE. ZFE YOU MADE YOUR POINT, LET OTHERS TALK.

64. HH PIPPIES, YOU NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE WITH YOUR UNDER 5 CRY BABY LUNATIC REASONING ON ALL MATTERS ESPECIALLY THIS UNDER 1 BOY CALLING HIMSELF ROD, IS A LOAD OF DUNG.

65. meant HH PUPPIES

66. What do you Expect from Mr. Chimbanda, he worked with the MMD and still has that mentality, that’s why people were always crying for a new GOVT. If it were possible Mr. Minister, you would have brought new govt in the Zambia Federation of Employers so that they work with you.This is PF and no mess for those people that want to keep their jobs by exploiting the poor.PF never be discouraged coz you did well in muchinga, chama north and livingstone. This is what will bring you back in poor and not Mr. Chimbanda.

67. People are being dribbled nicely from their previous rotten positions, viva PF!

68. There seems to be out-of-context messages on this blog.  Chibanda was responding to Shamenda’s threats he or his govt will take measures against anybody who laid off these newly highly-paid housemaids and general workers.  The SI does  not say that you must employ; it just says that you must pay the minimum wage.  If you cannot afford it, then you can lay off the workers.  Shamenda last week said that you cannot lay off the workers, which is plain stoopid.

Comments are closed.