Cabinet is today expected to discuss a proposal by Justice Minister Given Lubinda to allow for consultations on whether Zambia should withdraw from the International Criminal Court (ICC).
According to sources at the Ministry of Justice, Mr Lubinda will push to get cabinet approval to allow his Ministry to carry out national wide consultations on whether the country should cut ties with the ICC.
As part of the consultations, Mr Lubinda is proposing the holding of two district consultative conferences in each province which will culminate in the development of a position paper which will then be re-tabled in cabinet.
Other activities include desk stop research on the merits and demerits of withdrawing from the ICC.
In the cabinet memorandum, Mr Lubinda is proposing to spend over K3 million for the consultative process.
President Edgar Lungu recently called for a national debate on the decision by the African Heads of State to withdrawal from the ICC on account that the court is bias against African states.
President Lungu said his government was critically studying the AU resolution and would consult people on the country’s membership to the ICC.
He said the PF’s Central committee tabled the matter at its recent sitting and agreed that national dialogue should precede any decision in response to the AU’s call.
Meanwhile, All People’s Congress (APC) says it would be criminal for Zambia to withdraw from ICC.
Mr Msoni said Africa should not allow a few criminal elements to manipulate the continent from leaving the international court saying Zambia should not act under the influence of mob psychology with other African countries to withdraw from the ICC without making a clear case for doing so.
“A few criminal elements in the African Union who are potential indictees themselves to the ICC should not be allowed to manipulate and use innocent clean hands of incompetent political novices by bribery and influence to coerce and encourage them to hastily pull out their respective countries from the ICC in order to serve their own skins,” Mr Msoni said.
Mr Msoni said Africa has no courts with the necessary jurisdiction and capacity to deal with criminals charged with crimes against humanity, adding that withdrawing from the ICC would give impunity to African leaders to abuse their positions.
“Arguably withdrawing from the ICC is endorsing lawlessness and encouraging impunity of regimes on their own citizens. In other words, withdrawing effectively means that leaders will never uphold and observe the rule of law,” he added.
The ICC is an intergovernmental organization and international tribunal that sits in The Hague in the Netherlands and is the court of last resort for prosecution of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Some countries have accused the court of only pursuing African leaders.
Late last year, South Africa, Burundi and The Gambia announced plans to leave the court.
Mr President, why should Zambia starting discussing withdrawal from ICC, what is the justification? Don’t just follow other African despots, who know very well that they have, or are likely to face accountability at the court for abusing their own citizens. Please!
How much is Omar Bashir giving these guys for them to fight so hard for him?
Very good question. Why? See that is how easy Africans can be brainwashed! I mean ICC is like the only and last protection that Africans have! What is Zambia or any other country going to replace ICC with? Is it the organisation of African Dictators….the AU led by their man Mugabe…Museveni..and Bashir? Madness!
Wasting time & resources~K3million~by these confused, violent & corrupt PF bandits of visionless Lungu.
Teachers & doctors etc have not been paid yet visionless Lungu’s PF bandits are trigger happy to squander tax payers monies for personal interest.
What has Zambia done for these illiterate PF bandits to remove the country from ICC? Visionless Lungu is blindly following footsteps of dictatorship in Mugabe & Museveni. Its a worry that PF of blind is the only regime that selfishly want to withdraw Zambia from ICC due to their own illegal reasons!
How much is mealie meal today?
The Skeleton Key
~206~
Just withdraw from ICC. ICC is just for investigating Africans. We will form our own court one day. You have my blessing to withdraw don’t waste K3million asking villagers and peasants who don’t even know what ICC is. You can conduct an online poll and spend a fraction of that amount instead.
Mediocre topic and waste of time. Africa is faced with many economic problems, that should be our focus and not supporting the agendas of dictators.
Just think of it, how does pulling out of ICC benefit you and your children? Zero !! Don’t you think African countries would benefit if they focused on such programs that will create good environments for those bright heads that are scattered over the globe to come back to Africa?
The same intelligent people on this forum who are writing from foreign countries, imagine we all came back, don’t you think it will benefit Zambia more than debating ICC? WAKE UP
I agree with those who think its a waste of time and resources to start worrying about ICC. Of course one can only worry about ICC if they have committed atrocities against their own people for no good reasons! Why be scared when your hands are clean? Its mostly Africans investigated or taken to the ICC because many are found wanting after colonial powers ceded to self governance by those who demanded it there has been only a rise of authoritarianism, demagoguery and, plunder of resources consigning the larger of African populations to poverty!
3 million is too much to spend on this nonsense. We have other urgent needs which can benefit the 3 million
Don’t worry mr. president. you are safe even with ICC in existence. you did not violet any human rights or electoral code of conduct. so let it be and put your enemies to shame. don’t get scared.
He is scared because he has done all those evil things. He does not want to be held accountable. The ICC cannot prosecute all Zambians for genocide or mass murder if PF carry those out. It is only for leaders like Lungu. All these manoeuvres are for the protection of Lungu alone.
It is an international criminal court. If you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry. The argument that the ICC is biased against African states is not very accurate. The court pursues African leaders who have committed crimes against their nationals. Why do you want to withdraw if you have no intentions of committing crimes? In solidarity with people who killed their people in Burundi, DRC etc, save the 3 million, remain in the ICC.
Waste of time! Cabinet should be reviewing the competency of the “so-called” Constitutional Court and the “mungeni judges”.
We aren’t going to allow Zambia withdrawing from the ICC.
Pathetic leaders of Africa don’t mind how much they spend on things that don’t contribute to development and they are quick to do so. K3 million on this useless project when just yesterday the Entire President was admitting that govt is struggling to pay pensioners. GIVE PENSIONERS THAT MONEY WHICH IS NOT EVEN BUDGETTED FOR.Matter of fact other countries have already said they won’t withdraw. It’s not compulsory Mr President and use this doctorable process to hoodwink the ignorant masses
can you imagine?
I think you are not PF…smart thinking.
#It’s not compulsory Mr President and don’t use this doctorable process to hoodwink the ignorant masses
First of all suspend membership. That is the duty of government. Who consulted Zambians to join OAU? Who consulted Zambians to join SADC? Who consulted Zambians to join COMESA in Lusaka? Who consulted Zambians to join the UN? Think strategically. Suspension of membership will pave way for discussions, such as workshops, seminars, conferences, public lectures, etc. It is wrong to ignore public outcry in the AU membership, including South Africa. The idea of talk-talk first is a sheer waste of time. Act now, before it is too late. Even ill-treating UPND by election rigging is ICC material. So, cabinet must be extremely prudent. For the opposition political parties, government action or inaction is material for ICC. The AU is sounding a wake up call.
That is the difference between real Doctors and Juju doctors! Who told you SADC COMESA UN were Courts? ICC is an International Court that protects people from dictators of this World- is it fair therefore that African dictators and their sychophants must be allowed to decide the question of ICC for the people?
This is a question that must be put to referendum as far as iam concerned……that is how important it is to people’s lives, especially vulnerable Africans.
If a question to pull out of the EU in Britain was put before the people, I don’t see why African dictators are afraid to ask Africans! One thing that worries me most is that Africans see things upside-down most of the time that is why they choose to vote rich corrupt men into Parliament and ignore men and women who can…
@Steph, waitaya mwanana.
THE PG GOVT. SHOULD NOT RUASH INTO WITHDRAWING FROM ICC. ZAMBIA HAS A CLEAN HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD THUGH THERE ARE ISOLATED CASES OF ABUSES. WHY FOLLOW OTHER COUNTRIES WHICH ARE KNOWN FOR HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES. WHY IS THE PF GOVT SCARED. THE FOUND ZAMBIA’S ICC MEMBERSHIP IN 2011 AND WHY ARE THEY SCARED? PF HAS BEEN GIVEN A MANDATE OF 5 YEARS UNDER ECL TO RULE THIS COUNTRY SUPPOSE THEY DONT GENT RE ELECTED IN 2021 AND ANOTHER POLITICAL PARTY IN GOVT DECIDES TO BE RE ADMITTED TO ICC MEMBERSHIP IS ANOTHER CONSULTATIVE MEETING BE HELD AROUND THE COUNTRY?GIVEN SHOUD READ BETWEEN LINES WITHDRAWING FROM ICC IS NOT A PRIORITY AT THE MOMENT. SPENDING K3M ON FRUITLESS CONSULTATIVE IS WATING TAXPAYERS MONEY. IF PF CENTRAL COMMITTEE WANTS ZAMBIA TO PULL OUT OF ICC THEN THE DEAL HAS BEEN SEALED AND…
Lungu is scared. He knows what he has done
Since it was founded in 1998, the ICC has been a deterrent to the production of little mobuto’s, sani abachas, augusto pinotches etc, and the butcher of would leaders like patrice lumumba, sankara, haile salessie etc, do we need to go back to that route again? Where every military jim and jack would take a shot at presidency as long as they are holding a kalashinikov?
Tabling irrelevant issues like borehole at a cattle farm and this ICC…what a bunch of empty suits…how about tabling the issue of rampant corruption and contracting too many loans.
Unfortunately, there are few people (if any at all) in Government who think reasonably like you. The most painful thing is that even the so-called educated Zambians on this forum can’t realise that, instead they support every rubbish that comes off their so called leaders
Chali…. well put……. just read on the world scale of corruption for 175 countries we are ranked 85 last year we were 76..what has happened to cause the downgrade
Just google u can find out, projected inflation, projecrted growth, projected kwacha against dollar. Dint know til today all this ca google
Pay the retirees you tweets!This Government will drive me crazy
Obviously you meant twits! Just as damn as these PF cabinet ministers! Shaa!
Rwanda/ICC: Paul Kagame Has Widrawn Rwanda From ICC For Fear Of Facing Justice Like Laurent GBagbo,Charles Taylor…Now Paul Kagame parades As A Hero Since He Feels Immunised: Paul Kagame Killed 1,000,000 Tutsi In Rwanda; 4,000,000Hutus In Rwanda; 6,000,000 Hutus In RDC Refugee Camps In RDC;7,000,000 Congolese Citizens In RDC;500,000 Burundians;300,000 Banyamurenge Of RDC Without Counting Millions He Killed In Uganda,South Sudan,Mozabique,…..Paul Kagame Is Now Immunized By His Impunity Without Borders. Paul Kagame Continues Killing People Endlessly. Paul Kagame Enjoys Mostly Killing His Own Citizens In Order To Cling Onto Power In Rwanda Whic He Has Held In Hostage.Rwanda Is Like An Open Prison,Kagame Paul As A Prison Ward Officer.
Now ask this S.T.U.P.I.D. heads that are advocating to withdraw from ICC, do they have any clue how to punish Paul Kagame? Not at all!!
Is it okay that Paul Kagame butchered 18.8mil people? Not all!!! He should be hanged by his balls.
So he withdrew and he is now free. So the next dictator can do the same, not problem, right? What would prevent them from doing so? Literally NOTHING. For those advocating to withdraw, I say don’t be s.i.l.l.y unless you have no regard for human life. And do not be blindfolded that Africa can solve these problems by itself, since africa has never solved any tough questions, war, hunger, illiteracy, etc.
you foools use that money to pay retires mweembushi imwe K3million sure.
It will be unbelievable if indeed Zambia goes ahead to withdraw from the ICC. Just what do we want to run away from and in whose interest? ICC is a court and clean people should not fear courts. Zambians should be swayed into following a trajectory hatched by blood thirsty dictators like Bashir, Museveni, Kagame and Mugabe.
TOTAL RUBBISH! WHY SHOULD THIS ISSUE ALL OF A SUDDEN GAIN PROMINENCE OVER OUR MANY CHALLENGES WHICH ARE AFFECTING OUR LIVES!! This COULD MEAN THAT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE EVEN BEEN CORRUPTED by such leaders as El Bashir of Sudan to add our country to the numbers of those that are leaving so that the ICC loses its relevancy-that is LIKELY TO BE TRUE, look at how they have behaved on MOROCCO and SAHRAWI! As a ZAMBIAN, I BELIEVE this is NOT PRIORITY, WE SHOULD EVEN BE WORKING ON IMPROVING THE ELECTORAL PROCESS rather than this far fetched engagement!
Yeah. And don’t forget his chola boy kalaba just delivered ‘a special’ message to Bashir. I bet you this ‘ special’ message was his offshore account numbers where the bribe money could be deposited!
President Lungu has brought more harm than good to Zambia since he took office he is a very confused person no wonder he lost his law practicing licence they chap has serious issues going on his head.
What are these *****s scared of so much that they do not want to discuss the most important issues affecting every Zambian? We all know that ICC can never follow any ordinary Zambian citizen except those *****s who have abused their positions and masqueraded as leaders and in the process shed so much innocent blood. What is it that these *****s know is imminent that we do not know?
We all know that the Zambian Cabinet as it is right now, the vast majority sitting on this body are thieves and criminals in disguise. For any decent Zambian to think that these people will be a source of good will for Zambians and remain within ICC, he/she must be crazy! These people in our Cabinet are as criminal as one can imagine, except for a few individuals. We have thugs like Luo and Mwanakatwe still wasting our resources as ministers regardless of their seats being declared vacant by our own courts as an example. Lungu has signed off many dodgy deal for himself regardless of their impact on Zambians. Right now, he has been busy buying real estate all over the country with funds outside our budget for himself and his associates…in clear terms, he is busy money laundering big time.
At the recent 28th AU Summit President Edgar Lungu voted infavour of an AU Motion for Member States to leave the ICC en masse. Lungu has already committed Zambia to pull out of the ICC as a solution to the Troubling UPND Petition. Lungu wants to argue that he is implementing an AU Resolution and therefore AU should not pressure him to resolve the Petition. Lungu has already dispatched his Foreign Minister to consult on how President Omar Al Bashir of Sudan quickly exited ICC when he was issued with arrest Warrants. Lungu wants to pull Zambia out of the ICC b4 he is also issued with Arrest Warrants after stealing the 2016 Elections, illegally and unconstitutionally usurping power. Lungu thinks that by exiting ICC the Petition will be discarded and die away .Lungu thinks that the AU and…
We joined the ICC after having weighed the merits. What has changed today that we should re-open the issue at the expense of more pressing matters affecting the well-being of the citizenry? This ICC affects the president alone, so let him fight his battles alone. Only the guilty need be afraid of the ICC. So Lubinda should use his own resources to go round the nation to lobby for the safety of Al Bashir and co. By the way where do these PF guys find time to waste like this when the nation at a time our crop is under siege of army worms, and still grappling with electricity deficit? Awe mweh!
Our Leader suffers from indecision. He’s confused.
First it was about his eligibility (ECL) to stand again in 2021,now it is about the withdrawal of zambia from the ICC.Country men and women,just what is really going on with this govt,why are they so pre-occupied with issues that are really NOT a priority to the needs of the country right now?Something terrible cooking under carpet here!
Mr Msoni should not forget that Lorrent Gbagbo of Ivory Coast is rotting in ICC jails in the Hague, Netherlands. ECL has committed similar crimes to Lorrent Gbagbo against humanity. ECL genuinely fears to be indited given that he has committed numerous crimes and atrocities against innocent Zambians. Right now Lungu has jailed 10000 innocent supporters of UPND on political grounds. Lungu would like to pull Zambia out of the ICC under the lame excuse that he is implementing an AU resolution. Lungu is using the 2021 Election and the ICC Exit as an excuse to disallow the Hearing of the Petition. Lungu knows that he stole the Elections and he is illegally and unconstitutionally in power and therefore to allow the Petition Hearing will be suicidal. Lungu is between a Rock and a Hard Place.
To all readers: Many of you have spoken very well unless our brothers in cabinet don’t listen however understand one thing: They can leave the ICC today because it is on earth, BUT every criminal on this earth will not MISS the HEAVENLY COURTS (The Judgment day)
Only the guilty are SCARED…any way Zambians will RIOT and Trump will come to our AID…Every African state… NEEDS ICC
Lungu will need ICC when the next President starts to slaughter his family and tribal relatives. Lungu will not be President for life.
President Lungu and your cabinet. Do not put this country to run, do not bring problems in this country. No need to debate about this issue which is straight forward, Zambia is not suppoz to remove itself. What are you afraid of ba Lungu? Let Zambia live in piece the way you found it, that money you have put. Should go to pipo who are starving in different parts of this country not to waist.
Zambia Civil Societies we have a job to do now in Zambia. To preserve our liberties and human rights which PF government want to abolish in our country.
Let us begin to mobilise our serves for the fight against our hard earned freedom from selfish Lungu and his PF. Currently, Romanians have been in the streets for 5 weeks protesting legalisation of corruption by that country’s government. This is the route Lungu wants to take Zambia by legalising dictatorship for him to purge, arrest and kill those opposing him without the international community having any say. This has to be REJECTED by Zambians. Lets send a signal of marching in the streets if this ICC bill is tabled in our parliament.
Honourable Lubinda, the president acknowledged that thousands of retirees have not been paid their dues some of whom have died. Where will the Consultative Conference come from in such a shortest period of time? Why don’t you pay that amount to the sufferering retirees? Why can’t the PF government get concerned and organise funds in the same way they find it possible to find money to organise things such as Consultative Conference on ICC where they have interest to manipulate people and ensure to leave vote. Show leadership Hon Minister no need to be reckless in spending when we have so many areas of need.
When Lungu on behalf of Zambia voted for the AU Resolution to leave the ICC en masse recently did he consult anybody? No. Lungu voted for the AU Resolution becoz it serves his personal interests. Lungu has committed atrocities and violations of human rights in Zambia. B4 Lungu is indicted by ICC he wants to pull Zambia out of ICC for his own personal safety. Lungu is using his 2021 Election Eligibility and the ICC Exit to avoid the Hearing of the Petition. Lungu thinks that if he implements the AU Resolution he will get top marks from the AU and that AU and SADC will drop their Requirement to Hear and dispose off the Petition. Lungu Is scared of the Petition becoz Hearing this Petition could be his downfall.Against Lungu’s wishes the Petition will be heard and that process could dethrone…
Can the Minister please detail the reasons why we should withdraw from the ICC? These reasons should form part of the proposed consultations, if they are deemed sensible.
Cabinet is appointed by Lungu so this is just a Rubber Stamping process. After discussions with Mugabe,Mu7, Omar Al Bashir and other Dictators attending the 38th AU Summit in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia Lungu was convinced by fellow Dicators that his best way forward to avoid the Petition was to get Zambia to quit ICC urgently. Hence Lungu immediately dispatched his Foreign Minister to Khatoum, Sudan to talk to Al Bashir and get tips on how to quickly Exit ICC. Unbeknown to Lungu it takes at one year after official Notification to leave ICC. Even after leaving ICC Lungu will still be liable for indictment and prosecution after leaving Office. If Lungu’s fear is the UPND Petition then he cannot wish it away by leaving the ICC. Lungu must know that there wont be peace,Unity, Reconciliation and…
Before you undertake this not so subtle national referandum could you please, Mr Justice Minster, present to the nation what the court has contributed since we joined and how much it costs us? What positive guarantees does the court hold for our future? Is it a viable,necessary entity ?
Misplaced priorities! People already want to cover their backsides because they know they’re up to no good.
Tuesdsy 14th Gambia has applied to rejoin commonwealth and will rejoin ICC.
Masalamuso, I almost wrote what you have said. Jahme yayah after brutalising Gambians for 22 years, had his miserable end to his presidency! He was forced to flee the country, he knows that even if he is hiding in Equatorial Guinea, his days are numbered. It is believed and confirmed that he went on a killing spree of opposition figures, where some were burnt to death alive. Where human blood has been spilled, those responsible can never hide. They can run, but can not hide. Why pull out from ICC if you are innocent. Ba politician you must have sense of Ubuntu! Pensioners have not been paid and you want to squander K3 million roughly about USD$ 292,500, a colossal amount on vanity! Then say letter that our leader is chosen by God! If he is God fearing, then let him put into practice what…
It Will go through coz those to be consulted are all the same with the ones proposing