Justice Minister Wynter Kabimba and Heritage Party leader Brigadier General Godfrey Miyanda Tuesday night differed over the continued stay of Acting Chief Justice Lombe Chibesakunda during a live Cross fire radio blog debate.
The debate aired from the UK also discussed other governance issues including the controversial Public Order Act.
Mr. Kabimba maintained that Acting Chief Justice Lombe Chibesakunda is fully qualified to hold her current position.
He said despite attaining the retirement age of 65, the constitution allows Justice Chibesakunda to act in that position for a period of seven years.
“Our constitution allows her to continue in that appointment for a further seven years maximum but broken into shorter periods on contract. Justice Chibesakunda is acting, she is not the substantive CJ and for us that is what is important” Mr. Kabimba said.
He explained that the issue surrounding her appointment is whether Justice Chibesakunda qualifies to be the substantive Chief Justice.
“The niceties of this matter and this what we are discussing with LAZ is whether her Ladyship now qualifies to be made the substantive CJ but the fact is that her current position is fully supported by the constitution.”
And Mr. Kabimba has advised General Miyanda to stop purporting to have the knowledge on constitutional matters when infact he does not qualify to do so.
He said General Miyanda and other Zambians criticizing the appointment of Justice Chibesakunda are doing so from a point of ignorance.
“Now this is the problem we have in this country. We have people like General Miyanda here, with due respect to him who walk around this country purporting to possess the knowledge on the constitution when they don’t even qualify to interpret the law. This is very dangerous for this country and it should come to a stop,” Mr. Kabimba said.
“I’m a qualified lawyer in this country. I spent five years reading the law and work on these matters every day, not from an academic point of view but from a practical one. This debate with a man who clearly does not understand the law will not be very helpful to the listeners”
“We have people that know everything in this country. I’m not a solider and I cannot claim to know how to command a platoon like General Miyanda does. It is therefore important that the good General hires services of a lawyer next time he wants to comment on legal matters,” Mr. Kabimba said.
But General Miyanda kept interjecting Mr. Kabimba arguing that he fully understands the law.
“I don’t need to be a lawyer to understand what our Republican constitution says. What you are offering here is your opinion and what I’m offering here is my opinion. It still does not make you right about these issues and this why we have the Courts of Law for correct interpretation,” General Miyanda.
On the same programme, General Miyanda maintained that it is not in the best interest of the judiciary to have an acting Chief Justice for a long period.
He appealed to President Sata to consider submitting a new name to Parliament for ratification for the position of Chief Justice.
General Miyanda further challenged Mr. Kabimba to cite the exact Article in the Constitution which refers to the appointment of the Chief Justice and how long he/she can act in that position.
“Since you are insisting I cite the Article, let me just tell you that Article 91 to 97 talks about the Judicature, it is from there where you will find specific provisions on the appointment of the CJ.”
But when challenged further, Mr. Kabimba revealed that there were amendments to the constitution to allow the Chief Justice to act for maximum seven years.
“Now that you have mentioned that they were some amendments to provide for the seven year maximum period in which she can act, maybe now we can shift the debate to the issue of her contract,” General Miyanda said.
yes kabimba tell the general so that he know
Ba General please just concentrate in organising your party, why not spend time improving your village concept. These issues you have involved yourself into will not take you anywhere. Remember what Clinton told you last time. He said even in America there are such challenges. Its not possible for you to correct every wrong committed by the gvt in power. Even you given power, you can make such mistakes if not BIG ones esp with your military background. Look at for example the Public Order Act , it was pushed into the current constitution by a gvt full of very Educated leaders, the MMD. Even some lawyers supported it at that time.
I despise Kabimba
Cant stand the man for no reason at all.
AN arrogant man, if you ask me, disingenuous, obnoxious and mendacious in his outward appearance springs to mind
I will be livid , absolutely livid if he became the president.
Thanks
Rainy kabimba you nailed it, you literally were point blank on this one, i have always been critical of you all the time but this time iam with you, it is true that most Zambians and bloggers scream the louderst over three quarters if not on all issues without even knowing or having facts! With all due respect General… weather is 100%correct this time around, lets agree to disagree when it is neccessary not just because we want to make someone unpopular, the constitution is just what it is, weather K appear to be a Wolf in Sheeps skin but i think sometimes he is a real sheep. I think he is also smart, if he can manage to hold such a position without winning any case as speculated on the blog, out running my beloved GL and sitting at the right hand side of HMCSs, he must be a genieus!
I have never ever heard of an arrogant lawyer like the way (if I type his name, my computer get a virus) behaved on air. I wonder how he behaves in cabinet meetings. He may not even respect Guy Scott.
During the debate Kabimba was urged by the general to restrain himself from undermining institutions of governance such as ECZ and the judicially, the general stated that Kabimba as a minister of justice was expected to be the one protecting the integrity of these institutions otherwise people would lose confidence of them.
Kabimba challenged the general that he was not familiar with the challenges facing political parties on the ground because his party has no capacity to participate in elections
The general responded that whether his party is involved in elections or not was in material but as a citizen like other citizens he was entitled to express himself on matters of governance in the country, and he Kabimba as minister should should be open and be truthful on such matters
I listened to the live debate. For me Miyanda came out more like a lawyer than the one who says he spent 5 years reading law. Ba Kabimba is pathetic to say the least. He can not quote the actual provisions of the law to support their position as Government ! Shame on Him, Viva Miyanda
Unbelievable ,the PF agreed to debate? The problem with PF is they’d rather be ruined by praise than be saved by criticism.
times are changing .. the tide has shifted
Opionions and interests.
How can someone be acting for “Seven Years?” This is ridiculous! So, the PF can even make amendments (commandments) to the constitution secretly to extend the presidential office term to 8 years because “5 years is too little to deliver on electoral promises”!
The General was wired!!!
On the basis that they made a covert amendment to the constitution to legalize the illegal overstay of granny. Had it not been for this debate, we wouldn’t have known that there insolence is driven by this covert amendment!
True that, “Chimbwi pakulila, nishi kuli uko ashintilishe!”
No problem, theses amendments will be repealed and allow for prosecution of the culprits!
ka Theorist, PF has never amended the constitution. Its kamwendo panjila and his minions who did the same. so why are you crying?
I wouldn’t say he was wired. In other words if u are not a driver don’t comment on over-speeding, according to Kabimba.
The truth we need to know is when was this amendment to the constitution made? I am not sure but i think it was done in bad faith if indeed this amendment is even there. It was put to explain away their illegalities on the Madam Chibesakunda
Without stating my position on this issue, I must really give it to Kabimba for stepping forward and taking this issue and debating with conviction.
I think he did an outstanding job regarding the fact that he is now enemy number 1 in both the country and his party. This is good leadership exhibited by him, stepping forwardd and engaging with the people and debating on issues he firmly believes in with us rather than just shouting down orders. he ought to be congratulated for even agreeing to show up. 100 % from me.
Now Mr Kabimba, go tell your boss to do the same. There is clearly no voice of authority in your party and country. Let the president engage us and debate us . We know he can do it. Can the real Sata step forward please.
An “outstanding job”? …really?
From the article we have both read, Kabimba’s argument is far longer on personal attacks against the General (and ego-fueled compliments to himself!) than on facts and references to support his case. In what we have both read, the Minister doesn’t even say why he thinks it is in Zambia’s best interest to have an “acting” chief justice for seven years (…eish, a 7-year temp!).
OK, I guess this IS better than hiding behind State House walls so kudos for that, but is this really 100% the kind of debate you think a democratic Zambia needs? Maybe I missed something, but I don’t see how this is any better than shouting down orders (I know best, you don’t!). Why were the amendments made, who made them, and why does PF want a temporary CJ?
He did a good job indeed.I heard the debate too though I think he was too hard and maybe a bit disrespectful to the old man Miyanda.
One sided reporting. I need to listen to the debate before i comment. Dont tell me the General only said two sentences throughout the entire debate.
@ Spuds – You are just judging from the article. Other people LISTENED to the programme! The truth is Kabimba wired the old man!
General miyanda understands law compared to the so called law graduate who has never won a case in court. during the presidential petition in 2001 the General represented himself. kabimba should not even boast, we will judge him based on his past cases he has been loosing in our courts of law with the recent one been the one involving Dora, sililo and mwale
Kabimba, cite the amendment articles so that we know as well. U claim to be competent n so we dont expect our learned lawyer to debate without citations. Which article states that Lombe can act for 7 yrs in piece contracts? Futher we have pipo that have been to school n fail to perform as expected. Even you Kabimba its possible u r. Yo repute is there for everyone to see. Tell us how many cases u’ve won?So try to argue with facts(article citation) to convince pipo. N even the issue of acting CJ, what is it that u want from Lombe that u’ve not seen in younger honorables than Lombe? Is there a scheme? Kabimba, u need to be more logical in whatever u say than being sacarstic
i lisned to the debate which started at 2015hrs to 2218hrs and i can confirm to you all that the general really challenged kabimba in all angles and even told him that he has never won a case as a layer but miyanda has won cases in court as a lay man and thata why the general is found in our law reports.i now believe that kabimba is really a dull lawyer who even failed to challenge the general.let him go back to school.
The General further advised Winter not to mislead the nation on things he does not competently understand stressing that as a lawyer, he must not expose his ignorance
Thanks for sharing, this kabimba thinks wisdom is taught in class! Such a lost dude.
UNETHICAL! I think it is unethical for a minister of justice to raise his knowledge so much above that of soldiers to the point of stating that soldiers should only concentrate on military affairs and avoid venturing into political matters. Soldiers as well are affected by political issues and have all the good reasons to understand provisions of the constitution. Are lawyers bending the constitution to only benefit themselves in this country? Such as obtaining endless extensions to job contracts when other citizens don’t have access to such luxury? There a lot of old people that are even younger than the CJ, who have important qualifications, that would appreciate staying in their jobs after retirement. Part of hiring lawyers smells!
Kabimba graduated with a D (Commonly known as a silent at UNZA) and the man has never won a court case….. i wouldn’t want such a man to interpret the law to me, it is like “the blind leading the blind”
Hon Kabimba, if you insist on Madam Chibesakunda then your agenda is private. Forget about this lady because you have the capacity as a government to recruit acredible, honest and acceptable person to be in that office. If she was a seriuos citizen, she could have stepped down a long time ago. Ba General Miyanda must also understand that he can not do everything and MUST always seek the services of a lawyer when dealing with legal issues….We can not be led on common sense ba General Miyanda..Why?????
You cannot graduate with a “D” at UNZA. If you said a “C” I would agree with you. But even with a “C” it used to be a requirement that you at least accumulate have 6 points to make it to the “forum.”
It is sad to note that Wynter continues to cost this country Billions of taxpayers’ kwachas in court cases he fails to win. The latest was Wnyter misleading the AG in trying to bar Dora, Mwale and Sililo from re-contesting their parliamentary seats. Wynter does not even know that as Justice Minister, his interest is to serve every citizen of Zambia but he is on record to have said PF was going the ensure the trio don’t re-contest.
All wrongs/crimes committed by citizens are always against the people and not against PF, MMD or UPND. But this fellow who claims he interprets the law better than Gen Miyanda has no clue of this simple fact. This fellow has cost this country K Billions in court cases he will never win.
Gen Miyanda defended himself very well against KK’s accusation of…
Surely Gentlemen, Is it true that Kabimba has never won a case before or its just a joke??? I can’t believe this.
People just want to make fun of him, Zambians can make real jokes become factual, yes he is one interesting character he is a Lawyer mind you, they tell lies for a living so dont expect less from him dont believe anything you read from these bloggers most of them are nothing but ghosts!
@Cindy, Hon. Mulusa and General Miyanda are not bloggers. Unlike you they have bothered to check the records speak from a position of knowledge on the matter. If it was not true he would already have sued Mulusa and others for defamation. One simply has to go to the Registry to see for themselves. You can also access the Zambia Law Reports to see for yourself.
Where was the general and other citizens calling on Chibesakunda to go when the president picked her for the position and parliament ratified her? Didn’t these people know at that time that she was not qualified? Why do we need to have these appointments ratified by parliament then? Is really true that she is not qualified and yet parliament approved her to hold the highest judicial position in the country. We seriously need these debates in the country so the citizens are enlightened and bravo to Kabimba for owning up!
Chibesakunda has not been ratified by parliament hence the need for the president to come up with another name.
You are very dull like Kabimba. Chibesakunda was never ratified by parliament. Infact she was out rightly rejected by Parliament. Your name as observer does not tally with your warped mind Mr. Observer. Observe the right things and not illusions.
Observer should not close his/her eyes when observing issues.Parliament has never ratified Lombe Chibesakunda.Kabimba completely failed to cite any legal provision that can support the appointment of Acting Chief Justice.It is a well known fact under labour laws that if a worker works continuously for more than six or so months without being confirmed,that worker becomes automatically confirmed in the position they are holding.It would then appear that PF wants Madam Lombe Chibesakunda to have automatic onfirmation as CJ.
Forgive @Observer. He was observing internet traffic while others have been reading about and debating this issue. Osa ngena mu nkhani yamene siuziba.
Gen Miyanda does not need to go to school to understand the constitution interpretation of the constitution is suposed to be done the courts.Mr Kabimba is not a constitution laywer like Sangwe and mvunga
Zambia does not need Wynter’s interpretation of the law. If anything this chap got his law certificate through the back door given his record. He’s a fake lawyer.
The office of CJ is a critical one and the law, therefore, requires that it be filled on a permanent basis. Since Chibesakunda has been acting CJ for more than the required 6 months,she is occupying the office illegally. HE the president should, therefore, come up with another name instead of us using a compromised CJ. Justice should not only done but also be seen to be done.
This aleisa!
So Gen Miyanda was spot on and as for Wynter, RB stole US2.5 Million from a govt account (which only he Wynter knows) to pay for Nigerian fuel.
When will Wynter give evidence in the RB fuel case since he (Wynter) is the main…
Ha ha ha.Icho kabimba ! Paliba ama cheeky akamuntu aka.Anyway ndakomfwa bwino ififine kayumfwa though walipontela sana abakalamba ba Godfrey.Ilya tabachita.
Kabimba is just talkative but he is not an intelligent lawyer. He failed to cite the amended law which allows the old woman to act as CJ. Didn’t he anticipate this? I believe those who say that Kabimba has never won a case in court of law. He probably is a good lawyer to the PF riff raff.
I also listened to the radio show. Whoever wrote this article has a bias for Kabimba. Kabimba failed to address the issues and instead of answering the questions he kept on attacking Miyanda as a person. Argumentatively, Kabimba won. Intellectually and technically, Miyanda won despite being a layman in Law. Without pointing to the article that says how long a retired judge can act, kabimba claims remain rantings
When is WYNTER MAIZE getting FIRED!!!! Tired of his idiocrisy
I personally stayed on and listened to the debate – the general was far much a better person in the debate than this Kabimba…….”in my language Ka-Shivering”. The man is blank, stubborn and arrogant. He doesnt even understand the LAW that he claims he studied for 5 years at wherever!! Kabimba failed to discuss FACTS and Issues, he went on a series of personal attacks on the General – typical of a CADRE and Political assassin!
The general was very composed in my view and displayed maturity………..and above all, he sounded like somebody who understood the law more than the lawyer – our Justice Minister – I wonder what he does in that office!!!
He does nothing. There are very few competent lawyers in Zambia. Late Kunda was another such empty can!
Hon. Kabimba argued that Zambians who are not lawyers should stop & not get involved in discussing & offering interpretations to the constitution. Gen. Miyanda responded that his line of thought was not inline with democratic norms.
Hon. Kabimba argued that the parliamentary committee had no final say in ratifying a Chief Justice but the whole parliament, he argued that her name should have been forwarded to parliament to decide instead of being completely rejected by a committee.
Gen. Miyanda argued that Chibesakunda did not qualify on the basis of age according to the constitution and the committee as a filter of the process could not subject a name that did not meet the criteria for ratification by parliament, He argued that being a lawyer was not the only qualification required.
It is gonna be interesting. The entire Law Association of Zambia to emerge ignorant over the issue of the acting Chief justice? I doubt so much if Kabimba really understands the zambian law. Unless the Law Association of Zambia happens to be a dummy, they could not have contested Chibesa Kunda’s continued existence at the top of our courts . And I also wonder how the concsience of this woman is for her to allow herself to be at the centre of these debates…what is she saying? And the Law Association is saying they will not abide by the decisions of the courts hencefoth. Where are we going? The meaning of the supreme court is devalued. ” Palibe khoti apa muzambiya.”
its not true that Mr K has never won a case . far from it. records show {am told] that he won a case in the 90s were he sued LCC . But in that case, he was represented by another lawyer [ Dont laugh please its bad manners]
so that brings to two and a half cases that he has won. lol!
neutral observer -You ‘ve made my day! lol
neutral observer, we needed your comment and the day is complete.
Is there a way we can still listen to this debate? How come up t was not advertised so many a people would have listened and made judgment for themselves to the ranting thereof presented in this debate. Can someone really come up with a fact check fro. The presented points. The moderator help us. I know u reading the concerns raised.
Sorry neutral observer. I laughed even before I finished reading g the article. Wansekesha Sana mulumendo.
General, please focus on organizing a coup!
All this nonsense that Kabimba has NEVER won a case is just c.r.a.p, a myth based on lies. Go to the court libary, instead of just shouting around just because you hear people say that. I’m a lawyer myself. Yes, he has not won every case, like any other lawyer, but he has won cases. People talk too much as if they are experts in everything.
they are all driven by hatred coupled with jealous.
It would seem it is just you and Kabimba who have those records. The records I looked at in July when I was in Zambia confirm 1 judgment in Kabimba’s favour and he was the Plantiff (not the lawyer). If that is what you mean by not true then I am with you. But it is also true that Godfrey Miyanda has successfully sued and represented himself in court.
Winter Kabimba is so dull that he implicates himself.Let him be confined to the Paya Fama.He isnt worthy being sc.
Kabimba displayed serious dullness in that debate. He lacked in substance. A dull person will always hide behind personality rather than face the issue at hand. The fact that the General is not a lawyer does not mean he does not understand the constitution. Lawyers are supposed to site cases, articles and so on which Kabimba failed to do. If your son has a solid point in discussing with you the DAD, you do not shut him up just because you are the father – NO. You should convince him with better points!
Kabimba, kazuzuma,kanjenjema by name and also by nature?
We don’t not have to study law to understand the constitution.
We don’t not have to be lawyers to ask of the right interpretation of the law.
We don’t have to be bricklayers to live in brick and mortar house.
Your job is to make sure the constitution is upheld and followed to the letter.
The constitution is decided by people of zambia for Zambians.
General is right by finding holes in the interpretation of the law.
What a poor suggestion that General should stick to military issues than law – the army has laws and guidelines too therefore, law is applicable to the army as well (martial courts)The president as Chief Commander of the armed forces can declare war on another country but has no knowledge of leading a battalion
…. don’t (… not we don’t not) aaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhh…. I blame it on my iPad. It thinks it can spell for me. Anyway so goes…
Have you noticed that ZWD blocks any blog which is not inline with their agenda? It happens to me everytime I try to redress the insults on one tribe. In the past I used to see tribes trading insults at each other . Now only insults on Bembas are published. Insults on ZWD, HH,Tongas and Lozis will be blocked. Try it.
NEXT DEBATE IS HH VS CHIKWANDA. TOPIC: STATE OF THE ECONOMY.
NO OOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sure next debate HH vs Chikwanda.
Viva Wynter!Bauze ba shetani tryng to emberass you in public.They thnk u dont ve legal clout to control legal maters!Togethr Dpp,CJ,Atorney general & legal team with Edgar Lungu wel done!
Away from the topic at hand; I have just noticed that the Acting CJ has a striking resemblance with our president from this picture! I know it has nothing to do with anything, but thought to share that!
She is his relative which is another reason she should not be in that position as it is pure nepotism.
I listened to the debate. I confirm that the general was logical and stuck to issues, whereas our (I hesitate to say) minister was emotional and dwelt on personal attacks. Very shallow cadre-like arguments he picked through out. He truly confirmed what we all now know – that he lacks substance and presents the biggest blight on the law profession in the country at the moment.
The results of ChiVote Vote!
Such arrogance…this is why I find it laughable every time the President asks his MP candidates to knee before their electorates at rallies.
LT you should have put a music player with sound clips of that particular section of the debate, I’m sure those guys at BlogTalk wouldn’t mind.
Miyanda is knowledgeable and wise, regrettably kabimba is merely arogant and pround.
Miyanda is knowledgeable and wise, regrettably kabimba is merely arrogant and proud.
Ok.fine.The Next debate should be Chikwanda vs Nawakwi “Theme”Economic performance/Budget Overrun,Spate of by elections & Building of the President’s Mansion was it Budget for?/Rebased Kwacha is it valueable or valueless If So (Y) has the exchange rate stayed @K550?..Stay tune..
I find the general more knowledgeable at issues at law than Winter. The general often offers interpretations of law issues, and is a man who is known to have represented himself even at Supreme court level most effectively. Now I’m told that the only case Winter had ever won in court was one he was represented by another lawyer. The general has a far clearer legal mind than Kabimba will ever hope to attain in a thousand years
Good start, NEXT WE WANT A LIVE TV DEBATE, on Critical issues affecting our country. Listening to the Debate, Winter was childish, I honestly was quiet Surprised in the way he answered the questions as a Lawyer “IT WAS MORE ABOUT I KNOW IT ALL??”. He fared badly considering that it’s his domain and was debating with a layman, who sounded more knowledgeable than Kabimba. He tried to boast more about his qualification than issues being debated. Arrogance was more in him than Facts. GOOD DEBATE
Kabimba is incompetent and his rationale of being a lawyer and thus knows more than anyone else is bs.Am a health care and sure i have more expertise than the general public on health matters but that doesn’t mean i can’t be critiqued or found to be incompetent.Here is an example, Kabimba just accused high court judge who allowed Siliya and company to be put back on by-election ballots after ruling in their favor.Kabimba said the judge made an error.I was like what? this is guy is a breathing *****.First of all, i don’t support Siliya but you Zambians tell me something, should you be barred from contesting elections merely because someone has accused you of corruption? so if i go out there and say Micheal Sata is corrupt and provide no proof, then he should be barred from elections?…
I made a typo but i was challenging supporters of Kabimba.What is a legal system in Zambia? guilty until proven innocent? or innocent until found guilty? 5 years working on law matters doesn’t make you an expert it makes you a young junior lawyer. Remember, even as a lawyer, you are not an expert on every issue.We have lawyers who practice in different way..anti-trust lawyers, barristers,criminal lawyers,human rights lawyers, immigration etc.Which part is Kabimba? which part allows hims to discriminate on the basis of age for a chief justice? I would like him to point out if the age of president matters.Please use constitution of Zambia.
If Kabimba ever got into office, that would be the first day that this democracy would be challenged by the citizens, I for one can actually go to protest in front of bullets flying against him! That guy can definitely sell the country to the highest bidder and can begin assassinations. GBM is a better option by far! May be an ***** at times, but definitely is not at that level of crookedness as Wynter!
Very good observation but misplaced, Gen.Miyanda is not in parliament to object or stop an appointment or appointee of a candidate deemed compromised and further more, this is why there has been mechanizations and manipulations by PF to whoo and appoint opposition MPS to ministerial levels as a way to have them support the PF when such questionable appointments are done. The idea here or danger is that should a bad law be introduced in parliament, it will pass because all or majority of your compromised MPs will vote for it. For example if some fo.o.l came up with SATA will be wamuyaya President it will pass. Think outside the box.