Government has ruled out discontinuing the ongoing consultations on whether Zambia should leave or maintain its membership to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
Justice Minister Given Lubinda says the consultations will go on despite advice from the Civil Society Constitution Agenda to discontinue the process in view of President Edgar Lungu’s position on the matter, and the general view of the people of Zambia that Zambia maintains its ICC membership.
Mr. Lubinda is shocked and saddened that some civil society organizations want to curtail the process of citizens being involved in the governance process of their Country.
He has wondered how the civil society organizations could have known that people want Zambia to remain a member of the ICC without consulting them first.
In an interview, Mr. Lubinda told QTV News that government does not in fact think it would make sense to discontinue the consultations when it’s half way in the process of getting people’s views.
He said he is personally happy that the majority of Zambians want to take part in the governance process and have since seized the opportunity to be heard by making submissions.
Mr Lubinda stated that government has in this case also been vindicated that it has no pre-determined position on whether Zambia should leave or maintain its membership to the ICC.
Meanwhile Mr.Lubinda has said there was no active case involving Zambia at the International Criminal Court(ICC).He said that the ICC confirmed this when his office inquired, just before the commencement of consultations on whether Zambia should remain a member of the court.
Mr Lubinda said unlike in other countries whether presidents and government made the decision on their own, President Edgar Lungu has chosen to give Zambians the chance to make the decision.
He explained that this was because the ICC matter borders of security and can help keep politicians in check.Mr.Lubinda emphasized that it would not have been prudent for President Lungu to make a decision on his own on matter that concerns all Zambians, as the ICC mainly deals with serious cases against humanity.
Lubinda I am just as shocked.
A democracy is all about consultation.
The same democracy this organisation and UPND are craving doesn’t exist.
They cant have it both way,
Please ignore them and continue surprising everyone one of us on the hardwork you are doing.
You have a fan here
Thanks
BB2014,16
Little miss BEST BEFORE 2014 did they consult you over the euro bond?
Message from failed Lusaka Mayor, Fisho Mwale
‘Running……am so impressed by the growing number of early morning joggers along GER and Addis Ababa. These guys are running from 4 am to 6am. My appeal is please get proper night jogging gear. Dark skin and dark clothes merge with tarmac. Put on some reflective vest or bands. We can’t rely on your eyes shining kwati nika pushi or your teeth. Am calling on Rtsa to mount a road block and charge these runners with dangerous jogging. Serious you gonna die running without reflectors’
Fisho why didnt you build sidewalks when you were Mayor. Busy chasing skirts instead of working. Now you have solutions?
Mushota was recently found with por.n materials. She/He has since been blackmailed into blind loyalty. We should all understand her/him.
@Mushota, Not only are you ugly, but stup!d too.
Mushota iwe, why are you pissing off HH? Give him a break … he has just managed to get one person killed in Kanayama as a result of his stubborn mischief!
They have already made their budgets from the allowances they are anticipating to get. They cant handle the thought of returning the money.
@Shot Put Mushota (AKA Little miss BEST BEFORE 2014) suffers from gender dysphoria (which is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity) which can debilitate into mental illness so she/he might not be aware of his/her actions!
I was going to take the liberty of ackowledgement of my belittling me. I realise doing so, I will stoop to your levels.
I repeat – do not be mistaking me with someone who cares. I have been saying that since 2007 on here. I’m only 27
Thanks
Bb2014,16
BB
@Mushota Read Matthew 6:33, “But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.” Your next goal should be serving others before yourself and this includes taking care of those less fortunate. When we get our priorities straight, then we will have victory and joy in our lives. Whining daily about winning a US$100 BB prize smirks of self-centredness to me! Who really cares if you are the first one to put your comments! This blog is not a means of changing anything except sharing ideas! Create your own blog so you can comment 24/7! Grow up for Gods sake!
Just shut up and continue being a second class citizen wherever you are BB14.
“The decision by AU member states welcomes the announced withdrawals by South Africa, Burundi, and Gambia, adopts the “ICC withdrawal strategy,” and calls for member states to consider implementing its recommendations. This is based on text we have seen that, while labeled a draft, reflects the final text, sources close to the
A general view shows the headquarters of the African Union (AU) building in Ethiopia's capital Addis Ababa, January 29, 2017.
But there was vocal opposition by ministers to withdrawal at last week’s AU summit. The Nigerian foreign minister said that the ICC has “an important role to play in holding leaders accountable,” and that “Nigeria is not the only voice agitating against [withdrawal], in fact Senegal is very strongly speaking against it, Cape Verde,…
…Nigeria, Senegal, and Cape Verde ultimately entered formal reservations to the decision adopted by heads of state. Liberia entered a reservation to the paragraph that adopts the strategy, and Malawi, Tanzania, Tunisia, and Zambia requested more time to study it.
Meanwhile, the “strategy” does not actually call for mass withdrawal, based on the text that Human Rights Watch reviewed. The document instead states: “Further research on the idea of collective withdrawal, a concept that has not yet been recognized by international law, is required.”
Instead the document revisits AU concerns with the court—including its relationship with the United Nations Security Council and a bid to amend the court’s statute to exempt sitting leaders implicated in widespread atrocities. The document…
HAS LUBINDA MORE POWER THAN ECL? MUMBI DECLARED THAT ECL DOES NOT WANT TO LEAVE THE ICC. HAS GIVEN GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE CONCERNING THE NATION?
He has since the Lazy thing in State House…does not know how to lead? If junior officers are making their own tactical decisions in the presence of the General who do you blame? If others like Mumbi are passing strange contradictory comments who do in the presence of Lazy who do you blame? Amos Chanda is quick to respond to such issues..why is he quiet? Lazy can not lead a nation!!
ICC memberships became an issue when Africans tuned out to be easy targets. The outcry was based on stereotyping and profiling Africans as criminally inclined, like the American pit bull terrier dog is portrayed as notorious for attacking anything. It did not really matter whether Africans were indeed committing the said political crimes, including genocide. To negotiate an acceptable deal, it became necessary to kick start the process by suspending membership in order to create vital space for soul searching and reflection. The process was adopted as an item worthy to be included on the agenda of AU HQ in Addis Ababa. Since that time, nothing has really changed. Why can’t the accused be tried in their own regions? Why can regional jurisdiction be exhausted before involving The Hague?…
This whole exercise is by one man and for his sole benefit only – EDGAR CHAGWA LUNGU. No other Zambian will ever go to the ICC. Only Lungu is capable of killing Zambians without our own judiciary dealing with him. The ICC will only be invoked when the local laws and judiciary cannot deal with the culprit. The big question is: WHAT IS LUNGU PLANNING AGAINST ZAMBIANS WHO DO NOT SUPPORT HIM? IS HE PLANNING GENOCIDE? IS THAT THE REASON HE WANTS TO LEAVE THE ICC?
For now let us remain there. Our 3 wings of Government have let us all down. The Constitution has been disregarded, the Police have lost direction. To imagine that 8 months after the General election some people are still allowed to drive vehicles that are bearing the initials of a politician is total breakdown of order in this country. Only those who break the law are scared of the ICC. So do we want law breakers to take over this great nation of hours Dr.?
Did MCS consult Zambians when creating a gazillion new districts ?
retard is what you are
The Press Release on the AU Website clears states that Lungu voted for Zambia to pull out of ICC. Lungu did this at the recent AU Summit in Addis Ababa,Ethiopia. Lungu was persuaded to vote for the Resoution by MU7, Al Bashir,Mugabe, Zuma etc. When the South African Concourt blocked Zuma from pulling South Africa from ICC and Zambians across the Board showed fierce opposition to Zambia leaving the ICC Lungu was forced to rethink the move. This is a tactical retreat by Lungu who had promised Mu7,Mugabe and Al Bashir a quick withdrawal from ICC. Lungu is looking for an excuse to explain why Zambia is no longer leaving ICC. Who knows there might have been money changes in the proposed Zambian withdrawal. Its called damage Control.
So what’s you suggestion to Lungu and Zambians?
..SICK TWISTED FAKE WHO WANTS TO MISLEAD FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL AGENDA!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fellow Zambians, always look to the opposite of whatever Lungu says to you. He is quite willing to tell the world one thing while lying to Zambians. Lungu is a hypocrite. And the urgency of Lungu wanting to leave the ICC proves that he is running out of time in terms of his plans against the opposition.
At one time I unwittingly held this Lubinda in high esteem. Gradually I have come to realize HOW WRONG I WAS!
Me too.
Bo Lubinda is a yellow-bellied Bum, Wynter Kabimba knew how to put him in his place…the coward could not stand up to him due to fear only when he left did this coward show his silly face. He is not worthy to sit in that office…he is better off running his bar in Chilenje
Anybody with respect for PF has nobody else to blame for the mess Zambia is finding herself in. When you look at yourself in the mirror just know you are part of the cause of Zambia’s current problems. Nothing good will ever come out of PF and its goons.
Testing
Zambia is on Auto Pilot…when has the lazy Coward in State House ever stood up and stated that the buck stops here…the Bum can lead, let him go to the next working holiday.
*…can not…
the world is falling apart, the end of the world is now near.
talk about wars, droughts, famine, unrest in countries, earthquake everywhere,
UN has failed! they send soldiers for peace keeping, the same soldier start raping our sisters and mothers.
evil is on the rise, what more proof do we what to know that we’re at the end and it is time to turn to GOD.
Bo- Lubinda, Let your government continue with the consultations and eventually full withdraw from this stuuupid “Washington Consensus” court called ICC. The so called Zambian civil society organizations ONLY speaks when the funds have been deposited into their bank accounts by these MUZUNGUS. The so called moral judges of human rights (USA + UK…) aint’t even members of this stuuupid court. They (USA AND UK) together have wrought the most human rights abuses the world over, and NO ONE including these called Zambian civil society organizations voice these issues up!
Next regime in Zambia, Please MY GOD, ought to be Military rule where these stuupid civil society organizations will be banned for siding with a colonial enemy of Zambia and the eastern world as whole.
In this day…
The most stoopid comment this week! When you and your relatives are killed by PF and Lungu, the way Mugabe killed Ndebeles during Gukurahundi in early 1980s or Al Bashir killed the Dafuris, you same idyots will be running to the West for protection. Why are Middle Eastern Arabs and West Africans camping in Western Europe as refugees instead of staying home? Why does Lungu run to the IMF to be saved from his own stoopid economic suicide programs? THINK AGAIN, YOU DIMWIT.
It does not matter whether the USA or the UK belong to the ICC or not. Those countries have strong institutions that can check their President or Prime Minister as the case may be. Holders of Constitutional offices in those countries are independent and can be relied on to make decisions and pass judgements that are objective regardless of the opinion of the President. We are a third world country with no independent institutions apart from the Church. Our Police Service are daily threatening and warning the Opposition. This would not be tolerated in countries where Constitutions are respected. We are at the mercy of whatever devil or angel, genius or imbecile comes into power. The country has to remain in the ICC for the safety of its people. Who will control Lungu or any future…
…….Who will control Lungu or any future President if they decide to tear up our Constitution. Remaining in the ICC is a matter of life and death for every Zambian including Lubinda even though he seems not to know that.
and age, Its Zambia, Africa FIRST. To hell with these white people and their perpetual coercion of a black people.
I support you completely on the reasons to withdraw. I wonder how and why we even became part of this ICC in the first place. However its the cost attached to this ‘consultation’ process. At the time Zambia is in billions of DOLLARS debt and in need of every penny, is this really the right time to be spending such amounts of money on this subject?? There are so many pressing issues where money is needed, just the other day we heard of nurses who are yet to be on payroll.
Its the timing of this needless expenditure that is an issue. There are more needy areas were money should be spent on at the moment. That is why others are saying the minister has his priorities upside down not that he should not review our stay in ICC.
@FDD FOR 2021 and ZD1. I second your points. But the problem here is that, thinking brains like the 2 of you are in the diaspora… Could you please go back to Zambia and stand for elections… Zambia needs smart minds like yours guys! TO HELL WITH AMERICA AND MUZUNGU ANIKONDE
God bless Zambia!
THEN AFRICA AND MOSTLY ZAMBIA MUST STOP BEGGING FOR MONEY FROM THE MUZUNGU. WE FIND OURSELVES IN THESE POSITIONS BECAUSE OF THE GREED AND SELFISHNESS OF OUR LEADERS. ZAMBIA IS A RICH COUNTRY BUT WE DO NOT HAVE INTELLIGENT HONEST LEADERS.
@ ZD1; FDD for 20021 and Saki
Start campaign to force government to refuse muzungu donations.
Let us start from refusing free AVR, medicines, vaccinations, budget supports, annual pilgrimage to UN September plenary sessions in company of 100+ parasites, use our military and paid them with our money to solve problems in Darfour. DRC, Sout Sudan, Somalia, Mali………………..
Do you 1mbeciles realise how 5tupid your comments are?
What effect has the ICC have had on our economy? Is this indeed a priority for this country? This country is indeed in the hands of HEARTLESS DOGS with no sympathy for the majority poor Zambians. How can you spend so huge an amount of money on something that does not affect any ordinary Zambian like diseases, hunger and poverty in general?
There are membership fees for every organization, right? So, it has an effect on us.
@Chilankalipa. I completely second your point! That’s why, we shouldn’t even have instituted this consultation process. we instead like ZD1 argues above, pull out completely. This ICC is indeed a Western sanctioned court to punish those who disputes their version of human rights. FUCCCKERS!!
Do you really think that killing your own citizens is one version of human rights??? All African “leaders” who are wanted by ICC killed their own citizens. And you do not see anything wrong with that?
Ba ABM,
Have you completely lost your mind Sir? All the African Presidents who are wanted at the ICC are those who have killed their own people or have resisted leaving office when they lost elections. Just next door, Kabila has refused to step down even though his term has already ended. Are these the kind of people you want to protect from the ICC. The ICC is a Court to institute justice when citizens are powerless to do so against an armed criminal with his cohorts holding a country hostage with a sycophantic police and army. This can easily happen to us now with Lungu or in the future with Chipimo, HH or whoever. The Congolese or Somalians are NOT stu.pid. They are just powerless.
PEOPLE!! I think, this ZD1 guy has a good point. Surely, as Africans we can define our own human rights… Why is it that ONLY what the west (mainly USA, UK and EU) define as human rights if valid????
So killing your own citizens like Taylor did in Sierra Leone or Al Bashir in Dafur is a version of African human rights? Can you see what is wrong about African demons like you?
If having a weak and compromised Judiciary is alright with you, then I see the reason why you think ZD1 has a point.
@ Chilu
firstly, no body has forced any Country to join UN and affix signature to the Act of Accession. Secondly, are you familiar with the contents of UN declaration on Human Rights? And lastly, how can you justify lawlessness by our African “leaders”(LOL)???
Can you also consult us on whether we should remain in the UN and SADC and whilst you are it COMESA don’t leave out the AU
As long as CSO are not part of a process, they’ll oppose it. Ok I don’t fully support the consultations but the opposition by the CSO is ill intended.
Iwe @ noel. SADC and COMESA ain’t Western sanctioned… If anything, Africa should actually pull out from the UN. Why should e.g. Europe have 2 permanent security council members? The European population only represents 1/5 of the world population… and Africa with 54+ countries have NO say in the security council, and who’s vote as a continent is more powerful than the European combined. Try not to bring your ignorance or lack of sound understanding of global institutions on here. The UN is the cause of Africa’s down-fall… They only provide African countries with aid/ especially for HIV/AIDS in order shut US/African leader up, and hence forget about our calls for representation in the security council/for a permanent seat.
Because they pay to run the UN. Africa gets more out of the UN system than it puts in. Most UN peace keeping missions are in Africa, since the 1960s (remember why Dag Hammarskjold died in Zambia?). Typical African, you want to harvest where you do not sow.
Given Lubinda has become extremely gullible under ECL. Could it be that this guy has not gotten over those aftershocks of the once mighty Wynter Kabimba who reduced this Given to a simple cadre trying to gain back the trust he once had in MC Sata. Bo Lubinda please put the past where it belongs as it appears that you have auctioned your good judgement and reasoning that you ‘once upon a time’ had on the many governance issues affecting this country. Maybe you have gone to bed with corruption and had your soul cleansed from those strong values that you had
IWE @ David! take your upnd thinking somewhere else chhhikklaaa. the issue at hand here is ICC
Spot on. This man has lost it. Minister of Justice must be the last person to be championing such!! He wants to run away from ICC and at the same time, he is from the side that wants to disband the LAZ? Kansi nicicani cavuta ati bantu aba bankale mupaniki mode? mu Parliament mulivuto, mu office yaba Kampyoooooongo muli paniki. Yaba ilikoliko pa Zed. Check what is happening in RSA. That is as yhingc should be. Very health debates, isdues of accountability etc. Peaceful protesters matching in the street without armed police presence. The President able to hear the voices asking him to step down and he quickly arranges to meet those voices to hear them. Here the president will go Mpika to tell off any dissenting voices that nakulayenda nangu cimikalipe lweenu!! Kwaliba?
@ MORAUK
1mbecile, can you make comment without mentioning upnd?
Who has bewitched our politicians? They seem oblivious to reality. Economists have been shouting their lungs out sounding the warning about the messy debt crisis we find ourselves in and we have politicians wanting to waste colossal sums of money on a none issue? What kind of fiscal indiscipline is this? What the he.ll is so urgent about ICC? Lubinda must build his case and justify this expenditure. It pains us as tax payers to be subjected to so much high tax and only to see the our hard earned tax money going to waste. A lot of our young people have been denied sponsorship and yet we have the means to sponsor every child to attain tertiary education. This level of insensitivity is dangerous!
Uncivil Society at it again. Don’t need to take this step right now, but must consider it. Burdensome foreign orgs need to be prevented from interfering with localised decisions.
1mbecile abroad, if the “…localised decisions…” (LOL) are qualified as crimes against humanity, then ICC is the only venue for redress.
Learn about international jurisprudence before sucking to Lubinda puss dripping d1ck
Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to leave the ICC, visit the centres where the consultations are ongoing. SIGN WHERE IT SAYS YOU WANT TO LEAVE AND AT THE END OF THE DAY THE MAJORITY VOICE WILL CARRY THE DAY. Then tomorrow no one will say we were not consulted!!!! Why make all this unnecessary noise on this blog when your voice can be louder at these consultations??? It’s like sitting at home when everyone else wakes up at 0500hrs to go and vote then protest naked in the streets the following day that you don’t like the winner: GO AND MAKE YOURSELF BE COUNTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are the notices indicating when the hearings will be held in all districts and villages in Zambia?
AU, SADC and COMESA are toothless organizations. Look at what is going on in Congo DRC, what happened in Kenya and Zimbabwe, did these ineffective organizations do anything to resolve those conflicts apart from issuing empty statements and holding meaningless dialogues? ZD1, stop this racism and come to terms with reality. Do you want these iiresponsibles and heartless leaders we put in power who later become so evil and intoxicated with power and start killing innocent people recklessly to not be held accountable for their evils at the time of their reign?
Forever holding useless meetings, flying around from country to country and not making an impact of what these organizations stand for really. Just drawing dollar allowances and highly experienced only in mastering the current exchange rates to see how much they have amassed in local currencies. Thumbs up for ECOWAS.
The American government will go to bed with the most brutal dictatorships like Egypt but threaten weaklings like Zambia. Egypt will get billions of dollars in aid from USA inspite of imprisoning hundreds without trial. But will sanction poor Mugabe for giving white owned land to the natives.
Child, Mugabe is not innocent. He killed tens of thousands of Ndebeles during the early 1980s. Read #Gukurahundi and #FifthBrigade. Your reference points show lack of understanding of history.
Shocked! Foolish
The AU is heavily divided over the ICC, with East African leaders facing strong resistance from their West African counterparts in their campaign to whip up hostility towards the court.
Opposition towards the 11-year-old ICC runs deepest in East Africa – not surprising as two of the region’s presidents – Sudan’s Omar al-Bashir and Kenya’s Uhuru Kenyatta – have been indicted, while Kenya’s Deputy President William Ruto is already on trial on charges of crimes against humanity.
“There are strong passions around the issue. The ICC has been on the agenda of every AU summit since Mr Bashir’s indictment,” Steven Gruzd, an analyst with the South African Institute of International Affairs, told the BBC.
In advanced countries, sitting presidents are not hauled before courts
Amina…
Despite widespread speculation that the summit will consider calling on all 34 African members to pull out of the ICC, Kenya’s Foreign Minister Amina Mohamed said on Wednesday that it was “quite naive” to think that leaders would “come together with the sole aim” of breaking ties with the court.
Mr Ruto’s and Mr Kenyatta’s trials are unprecedented – they are the first serving leaders to be tried by an international court.
“In advanced countries, sitting presidents are not hauled before courts. It’s for the courts to wait for the president to finish their terms before proceedings can be instituted,” Ms Mohamed told a news conference.
Like Mr Ruto, Mr Kenyatta is accused of organising violence after disputed elections in 2007, leaving some 1,100 people dead and 600,000 homeless.
On Monday, about 130 non-governmental organisations wrote an open letter to the AU, warning that “any withdrawal from the ICC would send the wrong signal about Africa’s commitment to protect and promote human rights and to reject impunity”.
Former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has also warned African leaders not to quit the ICC.
“If they fight the ICC, vote against the ICC, withdraw their cases, it will be a badge of shame for each and every one of them and for their countries if they do that,” he said, when delivering the annual Desmond Tutu Peace Lecture in Cape Town on Monday.
“It will require the head of state, who made a promise during the election campaign to co-operate with the ICC, to deposit a motion at the UN saying: ‘We are withdrawing.’ It’s not a politically intelligent thing to do.
But international lawyers argue that the whole point of the ICC is to prevent national leaders from using the “shield” of immunity to escape prosecution for the atrocities which some have been accused of carrying out.
In my conclusion this may sound bitter to people like Lubinda but this information if helpful to citizens of Zambia so that they know the strategy of the Leadership in place today. You shall be butchered like Kampasa people, Chawama people and a lot. Even kill all NGOs and Mother church bodies with a no say.
@Semeki: this is what people fail to understand. The ICC is not for common Zambians. It is for the leaders who use state resources to kill their own people. Those are the only people who should be afraid of the ICC. If Lungu wants to leave the ICC, what is he planning against Zambians? Why is he afraid?
I WONDERED WHY LUBINDA WAS TOO EMOTIONAL ON ZNBC SUNDAY INTERVIEW
ITS LIKE HE JUST FORCED HIS WAY THROUGH THIS UNACCEPTABLE CONSULTATION PROCESS
WHO IS LEADING WHO THEN
The big question that has not been answered is: Who was the first to propose that we leave the ICC?That person, whoever he or she is, is the one who brought this problem. Yes it’s a problem as we cannot be spending huge sums of money on a worthless exercise when hundreds of poor people are starving in hospitals
Some crooked person who feels they have reached unredeemable levels in their stealing and breaking of human rights.
“Shocked” Hon. Lubinda…. is shocked!!!! What part of ‘ this is NOT a priority does he not understand. His insistence is shocking in itself.
These CSOs suffer from superiority complex, a disguised inferiority complex.They think they are the only ones who know what is right or wrong!Infact they don’t believe in what they rat but money from the so called donors.The so called developed countries thrive on the chaos they cause in the name of promoting democracy,which I believe is a relative term, in the so called developing countries.
And disguised 1mbecility has become tool for making pseudo-intellectual comments?
i personally think that they are all wrong
We wedged these battles and protected him over the pool table and we have never even gotten a mere thank you from him
Now to hear Given Speak the way He does and knowing that He knows what the real Agenda of the ‘PF Government’ is is rather ‘spine chilling’. Is his interest the money or the safety of the Citizenry?
You can not trust PF folks. They have sampled the Majority Zambians’ Opinion regarding the issue and want to discourage those against the withdrawal in a shrewd manner.
I am surprised how Given has changed from the very early days that we were helping him to take the Kabwata Constituency Seat in the early 2000s from the Original Namakau Bar. We used to look at this ‘Lozi coloured guy’ who was concerned with the plight of the Citizenry in this Area with the hope that He would Free us from the ‘BY AIR’ thuggery and even fought the State House secrete Service whenever they deliberately provoked the situation in order to have an excuse to disperse the clientele in the hope that it would lose popularity. We wedged these battles and protected him over the pool table and we have never even…
gotten a mere thank you from him
Now to hear Given Speak the way He does and knowing that He knows what the real Agenda of the ‘PF Government’ is is rather ‘spine chilling’. Is his interest the money or the safety of the Citizenry? Remember, you can run but you can’t hide.