Gay and lesbianism illegal – Kunda

Vice President George Kunda has said that Zambian laws do not allow the practice of homosexuality and lesbianism. Mr Kunda told Parliament on today that such acts are considered criminal, under the laws of Zambia.

Vice_President George Kunda
Vice President George Kunda

Mr. Kunda, who is also Justice Minister, said that the practice is criminal and can attract a minimum jail sentence of 14 years. He said that government will not condone unnatural practices in the country as Zambia is a Christian nation.

The Vice President said that Zambian laws are tailored by the Christian values the country practices. Mr. Kunda said it is therefore unfortunate that PF leader Michael Sata wants to champion these illegal practices.

The Vice President was responding to Chasefu Member of Parliament, Chufumu Banda, who wanted to know if the Zambian Law provides for the practice of homosexuality.

[ZNBC]

126 Comments

  1. 1 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    Political Correctness has gotten very crazy due to funding and lobbying by the most powerful men in this world who are busy influencing the change of guard into the Political Arena to suit their agendas.

    When you succumb to False Prophets and disown the Good Commandment of life, you ask for destruction. There are those that say I am Christian & a Liberal Person.

    Oh’Yes you are Liberal! But how do go to the Bible and say, “Dear God, I agree with everything that you say, however, I can DISAGREE with the notion that as a Man, I CANNOT be allowed to sleep with another man. When surely he commands a man not to sleep with another man.

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  2. 2 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    Prostitution & Gays Communities are behind most of the Human Trafficking in Europe. If Zambia takes that route, we will have an influx of Europeans coming to settle in Zambia, which will prey on innocent susceptible children in the streets.

    Ever since the Anglican Church decided to appoint a Gay Bishop – Gene Robinson of New Hampshire in the USA, it has started denigrating. For instance in the UK, many Anglicans have taken the exodus route to join other denominations. I am sure Bishop Gene Robinson does go to the verse in the Bible that says you shall not sleep with another man. It obvious Bishop Robinson has to be very selective with what he reads in the Bible.

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  3. 3 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    Liberal Nations in Europe are practicing Euthanasia (The killing of a human to save them if they are very ill, or if they request to do so. Before, we realise they will start targeting African Politicians like someone I know to look at this idea.

    With have, Gay couples adopting children. Early Statistics show that most children that have been adopted & brought up by a couple of the same sex are psychologically damaged and very confused about life.

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  4. 4 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    The western world has gotten very broken due to Liberalism. Politicians know this very well but cannot dare touch the subject in fear of being booted out of power, especially, in USA, UK, German, France and of course the oldest Gay Temple of Europe which is Greek.

    We have groups in Europe that are campaigning that Paedophiles should NOT be locked up but be given professional help and treatment. What kind of foolishness is this?

    Now, Am I discriminating the Gay Society? Hell No!!…. Nevertheless, Zambia does not need to invite self-destruction and disown our Culture morals and Christian Values.

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  5. 5 flag PROFESSOR OF STATISTICS

    BA LT WHERE IS THE HEADING FOR THIS ARTCLE?

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  6. 6 flag NON INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    In the UK, Christian are no longer allowed to foster children. A recent ruling by courts said that the rights of being gay supercede the rights of a christian!!!!!

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  7. 7 flag Areaboy

    The laws against homesexual activities should remain unchanged. Enough of this unnecessary liberal talk and political correctedness. Sha!

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  8. 8 flag Jozi1

    How can Chifumu Banda be asking that when he himself is considered to be legal expert in Zambia? sure these guys hv no issues to discuss or talk about ,they are full sh…t and propaganda to confuse the people in the country.

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  9. 9 flag Mind you

    I read through MMD propaganda machinery. This is all lies about Sata. Let not ZED demonise this man based on falsehood. Fake story on Stand up Zambia. Chanda Chimba failed to convince me Sata spoke those words after I discovered his face was darkened on screen. Impersonation. All the same, MMD must go… go… go…

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  10. 10 flag Banda Ndombwana

    For the first time, am with you uncle Kunda. I know it is rare to hear you say such constructive words. May you continue saying wise things and you’ll surely be valuable to the Zambian society and outside.

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  11. 11 flag ICEBERG

    The poor man has stepped on a banana peel and the blood hounds will not let him take a breather-any way nachi Mudala chine ukulandalanda.

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  12. 12 flag Party for Fools (PF)

    well-done George Kunda! these animals have no place in our society. we shall hunt them down!

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  13. 13 flag Nshi Sunda Chisunde Sunde Kano Fye Mu Muntu

    Here goes Red Lips, again an MMD propaganda zealot with a twisted mind.

    Remember how they twisted an innocent warning from Col. Panji Kaunda? No amount of malicious propaganda will change the peoples resolve to usher in a new govt this year

    You always make political capital out of everything, regardless. Typical signs of desperation for survival.

    Muleya bakabalwe uno mwaka

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  14. 14 flag Monster

    Firstly , how many christians do we have in Zambia??. I mean real christians by their soul, spirit and deeds, not fake pretenders, and its hard to know them , everyone knows himself or herself if they conform and comply and practice the biblical teachings, and remember that in the book of mathews not all those who shout lord ,lord shall inherit the kingdom of God and the same bible says do not judge others, the teaching further explain that … how do you remove something from your friends eye when u have yours. so first pluck out your wickedness before attempting to look at other people’s morals. I dont support gay business and will not want it to happen in Zambia atleast in our generation. what makes a christian nation is not a political declaration by a political plunderer bt gud…

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  15. 15 flag Monster

    so those who want to insuate that Sata is for Gay business, they have got it wrong, if people dont want to do that they will refrain but if some people want to engage in the dirty business they will do. the world of today will not be the same in the next generation. so SATA clarified his position so whats the fussy about it. MMD is to pack this year full stop.

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  16. 16 flag Ichalo Lifupa...

    I thought Sata stated his position a few days ago on this issue. Have you guys in MMD ran into a rut?

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  17. 17 flag Mushota

    This brings us to the fundamental question for liberalism: when does freedom and tolerance stop? What if someone uses that freedom and tolerance to attack that freedom and tolerance itself? Is that ok?

    At the moment we tend to accept that there should be limits to free speech: racism, incitement to terrorism or other crimes and so on, so this isn’t a question of whether or not we should allow everyone to say anything they like, but a question of where we should draw the line. What Christine is arguing is that the line should be drawn in a way that allows people to vilify homosexuals.

    That it is someone’s religious belief that they are evil isn’t the point: what if it was my religious belief to sacrifice children to the sun god? Or that black people were inferior?

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  18. 18 flag NAPAPA SANA!!!!!!

    I thought Chifumu Banda is a Lawyer who understands the Constitution well!! Why waste time in Parliament on such an Issue??

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  19. 19 flag Mushota

    Christians want to have it both ways.

    They want to be offended and take legal action when an atheist voices his opinion and presents them with anti-religious literature.

    Yet they want the right to lecture everyone else about their opinions in the street, through the letter box, in schools, in council meetings, on the radio, on TV, etc.

    Once Christians (and Muslims) take the blinkers off and learn that they are not special, then we can begin to sort out these issues properly.

    Allow Homosexuality and accept it. The response of the law to this is really a seconday issue. Gays are the same as someone who is left handed, Its a gene, and MUST be embraced

    Please lern from me
    Thank you

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  20. 20 flag Mushota

    Here in Scotland and the Uk at large, The prime minister Cameron has not decided to execute bishops;
    torture priests;
    ban religious orders, sever communication with Rome, deprive Catholics (or any other Christians) of catechisms, prayer-books, Bibles, liturgical books;
    churches have not been demolished or secularised by either Labour Government, but by their respective Churches.

    The zambian government should make a provision to respect the human philisophy that If they are not gay ie straight , It does not make it wrong for a peer to follow them.

    Even if things were as dire as is claimed, Christianity began as a despised & marginal minority. What is there to complain of in having to be one again ?

    I am so upset about this by Mr Kunda

    Thanks

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  21. 21 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    17# MUSHOTA

    Good Question and well thought!!

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  22. 22 flag Sharp Shooter

    #17 Mushota
    How come you forgot to say thanks?

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  23. 23 flag Sharp Shooter

    Mushota
    Ok its ok,I thoght yiu wre finished on posting 17
    coming to Sata,This man is evil.The C.V speaks for itself.The man has never supported anything progressive but regressive.

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  24. 24 flag silentburner

    #15 plaese take this foolish choice to practice gay in zambia to your familly and your desparate and evil presidents family,coz next iwouldnt be supprised that you will now be telling us to sleep with dogs.i pitty your familly.

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  25. 25 flag Keyser Soze

    What accent was george using while speaking?

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  26. 26 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    This is not even about removing the plunk in your friend’s eye before you remove yours. We are talking about attempting, giving in, or raising LAWS that can have catastrophic impact to the next generation.

    Yes, sin is sin !! Whether its Stealing, Lies, Adulterers….. But if you start talking about Changing Life Styles then that’s really going too far-flung.

    The calling is not about Sata or said this and that. Of course, there those that will find a way of twisting what Sata said in the recorded tape. That is fine – because its all about controlling the damage that has gone out in the public domain. In other words it just politics.

    The issue here is defending the core values of life and not follow blindly to influences of the Western Hemisphere/Cultures.

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  27. 27 flag Monster

    How do u say ” Sata is Evil”, have u checked your own evils before pointing at other peoples conduct and morals. there is now one who is pure and clean, as we live on this earth we are all bound in one way or another to make some mistakes and its nomal, sometimes we find ourselves in situations beyond our control. Lets talk politics, for now we want Sata to help us get rid of the MMD. we are tired with them. We are tired of listening to RB, GK, RS, DS and those sponsored one man NGO like Edwin and Chifire— tuthemba boys

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  28. 28 flag Academic Worrior

    SATA DOES’T ADVOCATE FOR HOMOSEXUALITY,THIS IS CHEAP MMD PROPAGANDA.
    MMD IS DEAD SCARED OF SATA
    IFWE NI PABWATO COME RAIN COME WHAT WEATHER.

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  29. 29 flag Objective

    Hey PF bloggers. It was a mistake by Sata as he usually speaks without carefully thinking about the reaction to his comments. You are disappointed just like everybody and therefore there is no need to force interpretations to justify what he said. The CD is in circulation and it is very clear Sata said those things. His voice is well known in Zambia. He has just been caught pants down, period. It was a set back that he should correct. It does not pay to be stubborn for nothing. It even reminds me of the time this Sata was caught on CCTV in London but was refuting the footage. Lets take responsibilty for our actions guys. Advise your president(PF).

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  30. 30 flag The Eagle

    #8, i am also wodering that such a question came from a legal expert in the name of Chifumu banda, come on guys, why discuss an issue which is very clear???? Zed also eishhh sucks!!!!!

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  31. 31 flag Mosi-Wa-Tunya

    .
    19@@@ MUSHOTA-

    you always go offline from the subject. you have the right to defend what you believe in, let others defend what they believe in. christians nations are the most forgiving people. try and take your nonsence to a nation like Saud Arabia. you will see what they will do to you. being gay has nothing to do with genes. here again, you are back to telling lies. there is nothing we can learn from you. unless if you are confessing that you are a LESBIAN.

    Question: do you have genes that makes someone become GAY or LESBIAN

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  32. 32 flag Mosi-Wa-Tunya

    People this is not Chifumu Banda the well known Lawyer of Lusaka.

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  33. 33 flag scripture

    Until African Countries become free from the economic dictates of the west;Europe and America will force this inhumane agenda of homosexuality on the eintire continent,mark my words.A slave is never free from his master.I rest my case.

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  34. 34 flag Global citizen

    #1INDEPENDENT OBSERVER this one of the many postings from you that i enjoy reading. they sound sensible and objective. i may not neccessarily agree with everything you write but these seems to be a heavy leaning toward objectivity

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  35. 35 flag Mosi-Wa-Tunya

    Question.

    What would you call a man that goes and orders thugs to hack innocent with Pangas & Machete’s people in Chawama.

    Answer.
    EVIL

    Question:
    What do you call a man that pregnants twins and later dumps to fend for themselves.

    Answer:
    EVIL

    Reference:
    1. Thall Shall not Kill
    2. Thall Shall not commit Adultery

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  36. 36 flag Matero University

    Our entire research students & professors have revealed that homosexuality is foreign to our culture. Any one practising it will be locked up. Politicians promoting it will never rule in Zambia

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  37. 37 flag The Lord SITH

    I am baffled that in a society where even the talk of heteresexual sex is taboo , this issue of gayism is so much prominent in our public debates nowadays. I really don’t understand what the fuss is all about .
    ….Our society is very conservative about such things , and we all know that. The impression that is being given that we are under threat of moral decay , implies to me that we are accepting that we cannot think for ourselves and we readily are prepared to let foreigners dictate to us . Yet we know that this is not the case . (or perhaps it could be judging from the paranoia that’s being shown). The real debate should be about why it is a criminal offence or even why it should carry such severe penalties.

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  38. 38 flag Uwamwenso

    Mwe bantu. Even after MCS denounces homosexuality people still say he promotes? Where did we learn the Queen’s language from.
    Nothing to talk about?Attack that man on other issues oter than the same issues he denounces.Ubupubafye.politics of intimidation and character assasination. The hour has come

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  39. 39 flag DONCHI KUBEBA

    MR. V/PRESIDENT SIR, YOU MEAN YOU HAVEN’T READ SATA’S CLARIFICATION ON THIS ISSUE??….ZO-OONA SATA NAMILWALIKA DIARREAH BA MMD……BUSHE MWATI MULELALA NO TULO????????BY THE WAY, THE COUNT DOWN IS ON…TICK, TOCK, TICK, TOCK, TICK, TOCK,TICK, TOCK,TICK,TOCK…..ABALEYA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PVT IS ON!!…MR RIGGER CAUGHT NAPPING….

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  40. 40 flag Nubian Princess

    The only illegal right now is the way the country is being run.

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  41. 41 flag Nubian Princess

    Kunda was declared brain dead when he was ill in South Africa. Why is he allowed to say anything

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  42. 42 flag Paolo Di Canio

    Are there NO issues to discuss for Chifumu to bring such a petty issue?Alot of evil things are done in zambia in the name of “Christian nation”Lets be real and dont pretend to be christians when not.You cant say sata is a wrong person because he said this or that,then one is not thinking.

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  43. 43 flag H.H. Sata

    Ba PF, if you don’t know let me tell you that you are embarrassing yourselves big time by trying to defend Chilufya over what he said and is in the public domain. That tape was dubbed from a copy given by the Dutch journalists, next the original tape will be released by those journalists. What kind of party are you that can decampaign itself so vigorously everyday without fail? You have not heard the last of Chilufya’s political gaffes yet, so hold your horses.

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  44. 44 flag Paolo Di Canio

    # 41/42 you have said the truth.These politicians are running out of wat to cheat us.The question at hand is HOW IS THIS COUNTRY RUN?Are we happy the way we are beeing led?If we are happy well and good.Dont take petty issues in parliment when they are important issue to discuss.

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  45. 45 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    34# Global citizen

    Thanks for your comments! I always welcome constructive criticism. That is what debates are all about.One cannot drive in way traffic all the time

    You and I are probably are not like those from the other side of the river bank, which will deny what is in Black & White all in the name of making political gains at all cost. That is why where MMD have gone wrong I have condemned them as well.

    In the meantime, keep posting your comments and educating all of us. So far, you have kept the fire burning.

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  46. 46 flag Chiti

    Because we are a Christian nation we do no need debate on issues like Gayism. Viva Christianity, Viva democracy

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  47. 47 flag RAT RACE

    First of all Zambia being a christian nation is one thing that i have never understood in my life-from the time that thief declared the status.I dont think there is anything sinister about my neighbour being gay for as long as he does not infinge my rights.When two male adults agree on being with each other then leave them.There are many questions that will arise here,however just like polygamy is accepte in our traditional set, when two adults reach a concordance.Yet some people demonise it.I think zambia is the only country in the world where any rational thinking is prevented with a poretext of being a x-tian nation.If we trully are a x-tian nation then lets ban all polygamy marriages, the act of worshiping ancestral spirits etc and criminalise them.

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  48. 49 flag Litigious

    We have to embrace diversity as a christian nation! No need to lock up people for 14 years or more for their preference! This is 2011!

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  49. 51 flag mule

    THE Human Rights Watch report on prison health conditions in Zambia has revealed that sexual activity between male inmates is common.

    The report which was conducted between September 2009 and February 2010 by the Prisons Care and Counseling Association (PRISCCA), the AIDS and Rights Alliance for Southern Africa (ARASA) and the Human Rights Watch interviewed 246 prisoners, eight former prisoners, 30 prison officers and conducted facility tours at six prisons throughout the central corridor of Zambia.

    The report stated that this sexual activity included both consensual sex between adults and relationships where sex was traded by the most vulnerable in exchange for food, soap and other basic necessities not provided by the prison.

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  50. 52 flag mule

    Sexual activity was reported at Mukobeko, Kamfinsa, and Lusaka Central prisons, and less frequently at Mumbwa, Mwembeshi, and Choma prisons.

    The deputy officer-in-charge at Mukobeko admitted that he had learnt of fights between inmates over sexual and romantic partners.

    At Lusaka Central, the officer-in-charge admitted that ‘there is a small amount of sexual activity in the prison.

    At Mumbwa the deputy officer-in-charge, D Mulenga, told us that he was aware of cases of consensual sex.

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  51. 53 flag mule

    Can you tell the Zambian people which law the culprits are be breaking.
    Which Article under the Penal Code states that homosexuality is an offence with a penalty of 14 years?
    We need facts and not illusions of George Kunda who is sick both physically and mentally, which you can verify by the lips.

    Homosexuality has been practiced in Zambia for a long time with a very high prevalence in prisons and the government cannot be blind to this fact.

    National Aids Council (NAC) documents clearly state that “legislation to decriminalise homosexuality is urgently needed” so that condoms can be distributed to prisoners.

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  52. 54 flag Litigious

    #53 you have valid points but do not attack the personality of Kunda. Whether he is sick or not has nothing to do with this debate.

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  53. 55 flag Shimumba

    Chifumu Banda. George Kunda. These are some of legal brains in our Natioal Assembly. What a shame. Sure these guys are just drinking tea and making quick bucks in the name of sitting allowances for nothing. Its time Parliament was dissolved so that we elect a new team!

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  54. 56 flag H.H. Sata

    #51 Mule, so are you saying that it is okay for a national leader to support gayism in prisons? Or indeed for that national leader, one who aspires to become our President, to support armed robberies because they do occur anyway? Or to say that corruption has been there so let’s legalise it? What kind of reasoning is that?

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  55. 57 flag H.H. Sata

    With Wynter Kabimba’s statement, you have just lost a huge chunk of votes across the country, including the so called PF strongholds like Copperbelt, Lusaka. So PF is no longer assured of strongholds at all. How does PF win elections like this? surely you know that among your supporters a large number are tonga people whom Chilufya had duped into believing that he had a national agenda.

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  56. 58 flag H.H. Sata

    Ba PF, you have just lost a huge chunk of votes across the country, including the so called PF strongholds like Copperbelt, Lusaka. How does PF win elections like this? surely you know that among your supporters a large number of the tribe that Kabimba is despising. PF is rigging itself.

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  57. 59 flag Political Think Tank

    #51 MULE do not mislead people here, ok.
    What is the puropse of Laws in a country? is to prevent and arrest wrong doing. WHAT type of society will it be if we say just allow CRIMINALS to KILL, STEAL,RAPE,etc because “these things occur” everyday/anyway?…….what type of country will it be if someone comes and **** your child or ur wife and u say do not arrest because these things happen in ZAMBIA?……be realistic and STOP being irrational because u are blinded by ur LIKE of a particular person….a WRONG is a WRONG whether said by me….RB,SATA,HH, or you MR MULE…..and shame on u…..may gays be born in ur family….not In our country….

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  58. 60 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    Anyone that is in Diaspora has probably come across Gay & Lesbian people at the work place, as neighbours and so on. Moreover, I work and have made friends from these groups. My comments are not about discrimination but being objective on what impact Zambia is inviting.

    That does not mean that we should look down on anyone that says I am Gay or Lesbian. However, we should be very careful to what we succumb to – and protects our morals

    Christians, Moslems, Buddhist & Hindus all derive their laws-of- the-land from their holly books, which are :

    The Bible || The Quran ||The Tipitaka ||The Sanskrit

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  59. 61 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    There is a campaign in the UK & USA from lobbyist aiming to introduce lesson about Heterosexual & Homosexual education to be taught in schools to children from the age of 8 years old.

    Thus, because they believe by doing that, they can tackle sexual discrimination at an early stage. This has brought fear to so many parents and I cannot blame these parents.

    The bottom line is that once you give someone One Mile they will ask for two Miles. And I know the UK Lobbyist will win the debate as time goes due Political Correctness pressure.

    For most parents in the UK are now scrambling for faith schools such as Catholic, Anglican, & Moslems Schools

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  60. 62 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    The “Interviewee” Sata in the tapes said that Gay Laws just need to be implemented in Zambia.

    How many MILES will Zambia give away suppose these Laws were introduced one day?
    Can anyone envisage schoolchildren at the age of 8 years being taught about different Sexual Orientations?

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  61. 63 flag input

    Get out of peoples bedrooms. What Mulenga and Jelita or Mubita and John do in the privacy of their bedrooms is non of anybody’s business. The Govt should not dictate what people do to satisfy themselves sexually. What you Yahoos should understand is that someone does not just wake up and decide to be a homosexual. As disgusting as it is, it has to be mental. Sticking your pecker in someones sewer piper can not be done unless you were born that way. Men are dirty and hairy and stinky, you have to be a female or with like pathological inclinations to have sex with a man. I find it very uncomfortable to shake a man’s hand let alone hug. Such excesses of power should be curtailed. I don’t care what 2 or more consenting adults do in their privacy as much as i don’t care how Kunda got his…

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  62. 64 flag Outlier

    Mushota thing in UK is sick.

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  63. 65 flag Teacher

    Sata already backed off, he now says he is against gays. So this is a non-issue.

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  64. 66 flag Kapoma Kabaso

    GK, please don’t demonise Mr.Sata for what he never said. You are twisting facts for mmd political mileage.This is CHEAP politicing. The man is innocent of what you mmd are portraying him to have said. He only said there is a law against what you trying to champion. Just talk of how finished your party mmd is.Don’t just criticise, be fair.What kind of a lawyer are you?

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  65. 67 flag Senior Citizen

    WARNING TO SATA NOW CHAMPION OF BESTIALITY IN ZAMBIA

    EXCERPT

    “donor had unprotected gay sex in the 11 weeks”

    Transplant patient got AIDS from new kidney

    ATLANTA – A transplant patient contracted AIDS from the kidney of a living donor, in the first documented case of its kind in the U.S. since screening for HIV began in the mid-1980s.

    It turns out the donor had unprotected gay sex in the 11 weeks between the time he tested negative and the time the surgery took place in 2009

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  66. 68 flag Kalembura and Delele

    .
    1# Independent Observer and 56# H.H Sata

    I hear you. These Basungus have become so sick. Now wanting to promote their filthy sickness into Zambia. We must not allow extra Laws by all means. I know some of these PF Supporters are just being naive and ashamed that Kawala, Mambala and $30m Dollars Deficit Man was caught and had to backtrack

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  67. 69 flag chish mwamba

    INDEPENDENT OBSERVER – Speak for yourself. You’re making a sweeping statement and your thinking is misguided. How can you hold the entire gay community responsible for Human Trafficking in Europe? Would I then be right to say that all African men are polygamists? or that all white people are racist? or that all Asians (or Muslims) are terrorists? Absolutely not, because that would be generalising, ill-conceived, stereotypical and damn right, cowardly racist! Doesn’t god love us all, even those that do not follow or believe in him?

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  68. 70 flag chish mwamba

    Criminalising what is different from the norm would be extremely unfortunate for us Zambians, as we have always been peaceful and tolerant. Do we want to be like these other African countries (i.e. Uganda) that criminalise, hunt and kill gays, for being gay? Come on people?! It’s not right for us (black) Africans to discriminated against, but it’s right for us to discriminate against the gay community? I don’t think so! Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance…

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  69. 71 flag Chang Ziegn

    I think we must read, analyse and take time before we comment. I believe professor Banda is a Lawyer. If a lawyer asks you to state a fact and you state it he is just waiting to come and hold you accoutable in futre with your own and exact words. It doens’t mean he doesn’t know.

    Next Comments please am enjoying reading them

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  70. 72 flag Chang Ziegn

    Mushota you have to go and sleep now. its late. Its time for you to be bedded so you dont loose temporary or sanctional acquirements.

    Thanks

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  71. 73 flag Pafwenamwine

    Mule, You are right about the findings across the country regarding gays and lesbians in prisons. Why in our Local language we have words like ‘Balya ni baChimbwi kayupe’ the person who goes out with same sex. All these words are there in our local languages. It is just so difficult to talk about this openly. Why is MMD with its hired thugs everyday Sata this, that and so forth.? They are really feeling the heat beyond their reach and it is actually making Sata more popular because their attacks make many people wonder why only Sata and not others? If God has chosen Sata to lead this country, he will lead no matter how MMD and Govt NGOs make false and malicious accusations. No man will stop what God has put in place and if God has not chosen him no matter how he will have big followers.

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  72. 74 flag Chitapankwa

    This confirms what the rest of the world thinks. Africans are the most primitive and intolerant people on earth. They turn a blind eye to thieves, adulterers and murderers in their midst. Yet they persecute people who hurt no one else. It reminds me of how Jehovah’s witnesses were slaughtered in Malawi in the 70’s just for refusing to vote. They were hurting no one. Somebody has alluded to the recent case of a Christian couple who were told they could not foster a child due to their views on homosexuality. Guess what? They were black, probably African. No wonder one black American once said he was grateful his ancestors had been taken as slaves, away from this God forsaken land. As far as I am concerned, what gay people do in the privacy of their bedroom is not my business.

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  73. 75 flag Easy

    I suggest Moshota # 19 should now start considering to sleep with a goat or a dog. A dog does even much better because he go for two hrs. This chap is a lost sheep. Go and marry father instead of bring foolish ideas to our society. Why do you want to divert people from real problems. This girl will not stop amazing me. Lesbians and Gays have no place in Zambia

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  74. 76 flag Chitapankwa

    #67 Sub-Sahara Africa has the highest prevalence of AIDS in the world. According to your logic, I guess there is a lot of gay sex going on in Zambia.

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  75. 77 flag Mr. Capitalist - 3 E's steering economic growth

    If you want to push homosexuality in Christian Africa, please start with the Arab Muslim North so we can see how far you’ll go. Why bully Africa into submission. We have refused to accept such acts whether you call us primitive or behind or whatever. It is our choice, our nation and not yours. So respect our sovereignty and keep out of it.

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  76. 78 flag Mushota

    Except for almost all pyscho-sexual research…sure…

    People are born with a sexual preference. Almost the entirety of sexual research supports this. Was there a point you came to in your life when you sat there and had to ask yourself which gender you preferred? Sexual identity, while occasionally confusing (mostly thanks to societal expectations) rarely if ever has a defined crossroads where you make a choice.

    It’s similar to being born right handed or left handed. And yes, you get the occasional ambidexterity, if you follow my analogy.

    Thanks

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  77. 79 flag P.F No Brainer's

    Woman having sex with each other – NO CRIME AND PUNISHMENT!
    Men having sex with each other – 25 YRS JAIL!

    Kunda you are such a BIG LIAR!

    WHY THE DISCRIMINATION?

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  78. 80 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    69# Chish Mwamba

    I am speaking for all those innocent orphan-aged boys in the streets of Lusaka that experiencing being abused for Sexual Pleasure by Gay men.

    Its always easy to put a blind eye if it does not happen to a boy or girl that is not your family member. These things are happening in the backyards of Zambia

    The rate of human trafficking in Zambia is already going up in the Tourist Capital of Zambia

    Sorry, you’re misguided. I did NOT hold the Entire Gay Community responsible for Human Trafficking in Europe. Herewith is an extract from my statement: See the word “” most””

    “” Prostitution & Gays Communities are behind most of the Human Trafficking in Europe “””

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  79. 81 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    In Europe, human traffic has lead to girls working in Sexual Industry in most cases they get raped week in week out. As for boys they end up working as Call Boys being hired to Fancy Parties for sexual pleasures and often are raped too

    I ask every one to seek your conscious see where this leads given the reality in my comments above.

    Again, its always easy to put a blind eye if it does not happen to a boy or girl that is not your family member

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  80. 82 flag Zambi-can

    We should start thinking and tailor Laws that are derived from our cultural values. Gays and lesbians are imported concept that has never been part of us. I grow up with grandees that never mentioned such predicaments in families and as such were treated as taboos.
    The deepening of poverty and political desperation in our country has led us to believing any western theocracy or ideology is a way to go. At what point did we lose our true identity? Who have we become of? What are we?

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  81. 83 flag Teacher

    So Mushota is educated after all. Clear case of education failing to uproot an inferior attitude………

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  82. 84 flag Yami Watiakeni

    “Why do you call Me Lord, but don’t do the things that I say?” There is so much sin in Zambia but we happily and confidently call ourselves Christians, or that we are a Christian nation. Mind you sin is sin. If you lie, pick-pocket, sexually immoral, murder, embezzles, and now the “biggest” sin-homosexuality, it’s all sin and not SINS-at least according to the bible. Before we open our mouths to declare others sinners or evil, let’s conduct a self-examination of our deeds. One would even wonder whether the FTJ declaration of Zambia a Christian was in vain.

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  83. 85 flag Nostradamus

    #78 Mushota, the name, your flat chest and smile suggest that you may be a Lesbian, it is good you left Zambia for good. You better advise your fellow lesbo Dora to leave her ministerial post because her boss just said her sexual preferences are a crime.

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  84. 86 flag Uncle D

    The perception created by the government tabloids whose publication for Monday and Tuesday the 14th and 15th of March 2011, whose headlines state as follows respectively: (a) ‘Sata finally takes true stand on homosexuality’. (b) ‘Church slams Sata’s gay rights stance’. (c) ‘Church to de-campaign ‘sinful Sata’. You can see that these are concocted and misleading statements by the MMD government in collaboration with its propaganda tools that is to say, The Times of Zambia, The Zambia Daily Mail and Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC)”.

    Sata stated that the MMD government deliberately misdirected the country.

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  85. 87 flag Larry

    #78. Chill out and take a back seat with your fuzzy science. Just because it’s presented as a scientific fact doesn’t make it so. A couple of weeks ago, a prominent scientist claimed to have spotted a fossilized form of life on a meteorite. Created a media frenzy and buzz and splash. A couple of days later, NASA distanced itself from those claims. If homosexuality is a gene, my usual question is, how does that gene get passed on since gays do not reproduce? Aren’t you happy your parents were not gay?

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  86. 88 flag Big Pipe

    Social scientists and mental health professionals have a general consensus that homosexuality is a normal variation in sexual orientation! However; ignorance, religion and cultural ‘norms’ is what drives the homophobia exhibited by the majority of comments above. I’m a married heterosexual man and have no problem with what two consenting adults (incl same sex) do in the privacy of their bedrooms. I’m against all forms of prejudice and discrimination; tribalism, homophobia, racism and religious intolerance. Veep GK, may I ask how you intend to enforce such backward laws? perhaps, you’ll install cctv in everyone’s bedroom?? This country surely has bigger challenges requiring our attention instead of wasting time debating gays!

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  87. 89 flag Big Pipe

    I know a guy who works @ chile’s (nshima place nxt to Mr Pete’s) who’s always behaved like a girl since childhood. I’m told even one of GBM’s daughters is a serious tomboy and is allegedly lesbian. The question is, were these people born this way or they copied this lifestyle from the west as most bloggers here claim?? I say, leave the gays alone and mind your own business! As for Sata, we shouldn’t be condemning him for the gay issue but rather his flip-flopping and lies just to secure some donor funds!

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  88. 90 flag Tonga Guy

    Firstly, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes has nothing to do with anyone else. If people want to be homosexual and are NOT harming anyone else, then they should be left alone to get on with it.
    Secondly, does no one else see the irony in proclaiming that “we don’t practice these things in our culture and the europeans are responsible for all this so we should reject it” and then in the same breath say “we are a Christian nation”.
    Christianity was imposed on Africa by western missionaries who declared that they would civilise those savages with the Bible or the gun. their choice.
    YOU ARE TRULY A LOST PEOPLE IF YOU CONTINUE TO THINK IN THIS WAY.

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  89. 91 flag Tonga Guy

    Another thing, comparing homosexuality to murder, **** and armed robbery is just plain ignorant. These crimes all harm other people and not just the participants. That is why they cannot be allowed in civilised society.
    Why are you so afraid of gay people? Do yo think that if their practices are legalised they will be accosting random people in the streets? Sorry to dissappoint you but if you are not gay yourself, it is highly unlikely that you will be propositioned by one. They tend to have an uncanny ability to recognise each other so you homophobes should feel safe on that one.
    AND BEFORE YOU ASK, I AM NOT GAY, I JUST THINK THAT IF WE ALL LEARNED TO LIVE AND LET LIVE, THIS WOULD BE A MUCH MORE PEACEFUL WORLD.

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  90. 92 flag Ras Rated

    They forced religion pon my great great elders and now they will impose this dirty way of living. The bottom line is shit ain´t african. Klaah!

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  91. 93 flag SHAKA OZ

    #77 Mr. Capitalist – 3 E’s steering economic growth,

    I am not a supporter of homosexuality but did you say, “Christian Africa?”

    No Christian will accept as christian values what (MMD) President Rupiah Banda did in Swaziland where he went and paraded himself naked before the public and WORLD MEDIA.

    Just as homosexuality is not allowed in Christian Africa so is President Banda parading of himself naked with his belly bare and beads strapped over him is unchristian in Christian Africa.

    Be honesty with yourself, HYPOCRISY is sin too in Christianity. If you are a christian (which i doubt because of your clear lies), condemn RUPIAH BANDA’s stripping naked in Swaziland as unchristian too!
    Christianity is a tool of mind control of people where the Priests/Pastor gains the…

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  92. 94 flag Bemba lady

    Homosexuality should be allowed in Zambia and should be accepted. Some men in Zambia do not marry and remain bachelors for life, not because they want to, it is because they cannot find themselves marrying someone they are not attracted to; a Woman. They want a fellow man, their body wants a fellow man, and guys accept that, and let them be. Homosexuality has been with us for hundreds of years, we cannot change it.
    It is like saying to people, “from now on, we are all going to eat meat, no more vegetarians” How would that sound? Everyone, kill and eat meat.

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  93. 95 flag Bemba lady

    When women live together no one says nor assumes anything. Guys go to boarding schools and see for yourselves. Boarding school are a true proof that Homosexuality does exit. This attraction starts from there and follows them to their homes and into life after school. I know former school mates who are still together today after they left school when they were only 19. One girl married and her partner moved in and the husband is none the wiser.

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  94. 96 flag patriot

    Sin is sin? Bible says “let who is not guilty of any sin cast the first stone.” Chigololo is sin, plunder of our resources in sin, RB’s early gratuity is sin…what are these fortune seekers trying to tell us? let us discuss real issues that affect our welfare? who cares if my neighbor is a fag or lesbian? we need accountability in government and let us not waste time of fags or lesbians?

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  95. 97 flag chisha mwamba

    Very disappointing views about the gay community coming from young, modern and educated (assuming you are) Zambians here on the LT blog. I am absolutely appalled by your and prejudice comments about the gay community. What is wrong with being different?

    Bushe finshi muletina? (Muyopa chani? Translated for my Chipata cousins) Being gay is not contagious, if that is what you are worried about. You are either gay or you are not, you don’t choose to be and you cannot catch it!

    For the record, I am not gay but I do not have cynical or general discriminatory views against gay people. They are not harming you; how someone else to lives their life is none if yours or my concern – Leave them alone!

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  96. 98 flag Nine Chale

    Good afternoon

    It is rather outrageous that Zambians should spend so much time and energy debating issues that are clearly incompatible with their culture and heritage instead of moving their nation forward. Assuming gays and lesbians are legalised in Zambia, then what?

    Are they going to make Zambia a better place than it is now? Will they bring hope and a better future for the millions of low budget Zambians or are they just going to add more acrimony to their already dire situation? Why are we not talking broader, wider, more comprehensive instead of narrowing our scope in favor of a small group of individuals who want to force their personal lifestyle through our cultural and spiritual norms at the expense of the majority of our people who disagree with them?

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  97. 99 flag The Sentinel

    Please be mindful what you intend to enact into law (research and consult fully). These laws have far-reaching consequences. Here in the UK for instance, within the past couple of months a hotel owner was fined over £3k for refusing a gay couple a room. Another couple was refused adoption because of their stated belief that being gay is not natural. You actually feel disadvantaged by the law as Christians. Also, now churches are ‘allowed’ by law to conduct same-sex marriages. How does that measure up with Zambian culture?

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  98. 100 flag MrK

    My concern on this issue is the reach of the law into people’s lives. I don’t want the government to start peeking into people’s bedrooms, and whatever happens between 1) consenting 2) adults, is no business of the state.

    To the legality of homosexuality in Zambia – the situation is the same as in Uganda, Malawi, Zimbabwe, etc. There are laws against homosexuality in the criminal code, but the constitution (which is the highest law in the land) has very broad anti-discrimination articles, much of which are a direct copy out of the United Nations Charter for Human Rights.

    In Zambia, it can be argued that articles 11 and 23 (Protection from discrimination on the ground of race,etc.).

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  99. 101 flag MrK

    From the 1996 Constitution:

    PART III
    PROTECTION OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOM OF THE INDIVIDUAL

    11. [Fundamental rights and freedoms]

    It is recognised and declared that every person in Zambia has been and shall continue to be
    entitled to the fundamental rights and freedoms of the individual, that is to say, the right, whatever his race, place of origin, political opinions, colour, creed, sex or marital status, but subject to the limitations contained in this Part, to each and all of the following, namely:

    23. [Protection from discrimination on the ground of race,etc.]

    (1) Subject to clauses (4), (5) and (7), no law shall make any provision that is discriminatory either of itself or in its effect.

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  100. 102 flag MrK

    (Continued from Article 23:)

    (3) In this Article the expression “discriminatory” mean, affording different treatment to different persons attributable, wholly or mainly to their respective descriptions by race, tribe, sex, place of origin, marital status, political opinions colour or creed whereby persons of one such description are subjected to disabilities or restrictions to which persons of another such description are not made subject or are accorded privileges or advantages which are not accorded to persons of another such description.

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  101. 103 flag THE SAINT

    What kind of lawyers do we have in Zambia? This man is also State counsel. The supreme law of the land is the constitution. The constitution guarantees the fundamental rights and liberties of its citizens. One of those is freedom of association and there is freedom of expression too. I could argue in the Zambian court that these over rule any other Act under our laws. The marriage Act is wrong too. I can see a day when our courts will be in the invidious position of having to decide between the rights of the individual and criminal law. Homosexuality is immoral but it is not illegal. The sooner all Zambians learn this simple fact, the better. We have had these debates on this site before. If I were gay I would dare our government.

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  102. 104 flag THE SAINT

    Whenever a Law is enacted, it must be enforceable. You cannot for example say that anyone who urinates on the floor in his house will be commiting an offence. How do you enforce this. Homosexuality is an act between individuals in their own privacy. Sex within marriage is not illegal, but if you go about having sex in Cairo Road you will be arrested for indecency. What you are doing is LEGAL but in the wrong place. Our society looks down even upon legal but public show of affection. In other parts of the world, they have nudist beaches and people kiss and fondle each other in the public. This would be frowned upon in Zambia. Why then is there a law which can only be enforced if the state were privy to a persons liasons?

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  103. 105 flag Dr Charles Ngoma

    THE SAINT.
    I agree. The government MUST protect people and property from harm by another taking advantage of another. When two people enter into a compact with equal understanding and consent and it involves just the two of them without harm to any other, the matter is purely between them and their maker and no state should interfere with that. This is Communism through the back door.

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  104. 106 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    I have no issue with what two gay grown up people in their bedroom. Its all about making choices in life.However, foreign mercenaries cannot impose life style choices, on us.

    As a person that has spent millions of money helping the vulnerable children in the streets of Zambia.
    I know and often get updated from these centres that most of these young boys that get picked up in the streets to the shelter homes are very traumatised kids due to fact often they get picked up in the nights, given food in exchange of getting sexually abused. And the most culprits are tourists that are coming into Zambia.

    They system is very aware about this problem – but politicians are too busy hallowing.

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  105. 107 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    What exactly, am I defending here? The human values of our society, which are getting broken everyday, by destroying innocent kids.

    The question is what sort of Laws was Sata considering now that he has backtracked after being caught up. Once you open the flood gate, you invite all sorts of problems that Zambia has never anticipated before.

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  106. 108 flag MrK

    107 INDEPENDENT OBSERVER,

    I agree completely. There must be strong protections to protect the under age from exploitation. Or even adult employees from exploitation by their employers.

    I can see that in a country with a lot of poverty there is so much opportunity for exploitation. I think that a lot of the gay activists in the West do not take the issue of poverty into account.

    And anyone who targets kids anywhere in the world should go to jail for a very long time.

    What I am very uncomfortable with is politicians like George Kunda using the issue to attack their political opponents. And after all, the biggest closets creak the loudest. :)

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  107. 109 flag Bwalya Chitu

    Good Afternoon fellow Zambians…

    If this was a condition, that one is born with…

    (a) What about HOMOSEXUALS, who have made U-Turns, got married to a woman had children and lived happy after?

    (b) What about LESBIANS who made U-Turns got married to a man had children and lived happy after.

    (c) What HOMOSEXUALS that one day sleep with a Man and the next day they go and do it with a woman? The same with LESBIANS

    (d) How did they get cured from this condition to U-Turn?

    I asked my 85 year old Grandmother about this issue of being gay or lesbian in Zambia or Northern Rhodesia. She told me that this never used to happen in the old days. Then said, the problem with you the young generation is that you want to follow Abasungu very blindly and try all these dirty experiments.

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  108. 110 flag chisha mwamba

    #98, Nine Chale. What are you talking about? “Are they going to make Zambia a better place than it is now?” Well they certainly won’t make it a bad place, duh?

    “Why are we not talking broader, wider, more comprehensive instead of narrowing our scope” Well that’s why we are discussing the prejudices that exist in our culture and Zambia as a whole. We are not just “focusing” on politics, because other issues in society matter too, i.e.
    fairness, injustice (or justice), tolerance, etc.

    Do us a favour will you, get it together !

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  109. 111 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    108 MrK

    Thanks for your comments

    My comments have nothing to do with Political Affiliation or attacking PF stronghold. Though I have often leaned to MMD, I have never spared people like MMD chaps like Chiluba, William Banda including RB or any one that has gone off track. Anyone that has been reading my postings in the last few months can attest to that. I have at times given credit to HH and SATA for playing accountability roles against MMD

    I work with Gays & Lesbians and often go on company social functions together. I have people that I talk to that are gay. I have Investment Houses clients that are run by Multi-Billions Gays Executives that are in my Investment Portfolio Management working as Equity City Trader.

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  110. 112 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    I don’t care what my neighbor does when he or she goes to bed. I am happy my heterosexual sex life with my girlfriend. We are all answerable to our beliefs

    Mine is to protect all homeless kids that are being raped every single night in the streets of Lusaka and other towns by Gay Predators. We know the Police know these people but cannot act due to lack of resources and often are bribed

    These kids are hungry and homeless and have no choice but give in to feed their stomachs. Most of these kids when they arrived at Shelter Centers they get counseled and the stories the they tell are very heart breaking. Besides most of them, arrive with HIV. That hits my soul very hard. As a sponsor, I am updated all the time.

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  111. 113 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    The age of consent for Homosexuals in most European nations is 16 years.
    However, the EU has recognized the problem it has created and wants to revisit and increase to 17. They have realized young defenseless boys from poor backgrounds have been duped & abused too often by Mafioso Gangs for Sexual Pleasures.

    Some people are making the argument to score a political point. They are entitled to do that. That’s what debate is all about.

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  112. 114 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    For some, if you want to argue your points, do so. Nevertheless, do not look down on others and say “Who are you? What are you talking about? Its show how some people are so Authoritarian, Tyranny and Autocracy. It could be the level of frustration in real life

    We have a good example we can learn from Uganda, Brazil and Cambodia.

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  113. 115 flag Tonga Guy

    114
    You are right about protection of children from sexual exploitation. However, the problem faced there is not whether or not homosexuality is moral or should be legal in Zambia. The problem is poverty. If these children had homes to go to or people to care for them they would not get into these situations. Sexual predators the world over prey on vulnerable children who have no one to protect them.
    The issue here is about tolerance for your fellow man and learning to accept people’s differences be they racial, tribal, religious or sexual preference. The sooner we learn to stop being afraid of what we don’t know, and to accept each other as fellow human beings, the sooner we can create a better world in which to live.

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  114. 116 flag Larry

    Today you’re defending homosexuality. Tomorrow YOU WILL be defending bestiality. It’s that straight forward. “Consensual sex,” you will say. After all it is his dog; he owns it, so what’s wrong with that especially that he’s not doing nobody any harm? We just need to focus on issues that bring development to our nation. “Those who forsake the law praise the wicked, but those who keep the law contend with them.” Proverbs 28:4.

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  115. 117 flag Zambian *****

    To all you Zambian Christian wan-Abe here is something for you to think about
    Zambia is one of the countries in the world with the highest rate of hiv/aids so this evidence shows that a lot of so called “Christians” are committing a lot of fornication/adultery. Sins that are all equivalent to being gay in Gods eyes
    I am not saying legalise gay marriage but what am saying is stop being hypocrites. Each man gay or straight can only be judged by God and only God not a man

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  116. 118 flag THE SAINT

    INDEPENDENT OBSERVER
    I am interested in your view about protection of young people. I only hope that you include girls as well who are being sexually abused by their relatives and family friends left, right and centre in Zambia. Many men who are at the forefront of condemning homosexuality themselves committed criminal acts against under age girls. Some of them are in respectable professions like lawyers, clergy, doctors and teachers and yet they slept with girls as young as 10! These are heterosexuals. To me this is more offensive than two grown men doing to each other what is unseemly! Stand up all those who never had sex before 16 or with a less than 16 year old! Why don’t you hand yourselves over to the police!

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  117. 119 flag MrK

    Larry,

    ” Today you’re defending homosexuality. Tomorrow YOU WILL be defending bestiality. It’s that straight forward. “Consensual sex,” you will say. After all it is his dog; he owns it, so what’s wrong with that especially that he’s not doing nobody any harm? ”

    Because dogs etc. by definition can’t consent? How do you get consent from a dog? :)

    The slippery slope argument doesn’t apply when we are talking about the civil liberties of 1) consenting 2) adults.

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  118. 120 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    .

    118 THE SAINT
    .

    Thanks for your comments. Keep posting progressive memos.

    I sponsor homeless girls & boys that are hungry, sexually and mentally abused, found homeless in the streets and broken families. My agenda is to give hope to the left out children, cause this the future for Zambia.

    We have so much resources in Zambia that can carter for all homeless children but we are too far concerned on what comes to our plates. These problems started when Chiluba & Sata were in power but were busy stealing money and keeping a blind eye. Therefore, Sata cannot champion goodness today.

    Cont…

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  119. 121 flag INDEPENDENT OBSERVER

    .

    Whichever Party win the elections, I will continue lobbying for these programs to be supported more by the Government and the Private Sector.

    I will leave those that are using this blog to score points for their delusional political leaders.

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  120. 122 flag Dora Siliya

    I like the way you touch me there

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  121. 123 flag THE SAINT

    INDEPENDENT OBSERVER
    Good on you. I am very glad to hear that and please keep up the good work. These are the kinds of things that we should be doing and talking about as a Christian nation not the homophobia that has arisen out of a terrible misunderstanding of the Christianity of Jesus. Much of what passes as Christianity today is delusional Saduceesm and Pharisaism. Those who condemn homosexuality as un cultural should then condone witch craft, witch finding, cisungu, spears and ancestral spirit worship. Those who use the Bible then should condemn menstruating women who touch anything, death should be by stoning and the sabbath (7th day) should be a holiday in which no one works and every body should pay 1/10 of income to the temple priests. How absurd!

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  122. 124 flag THE SAINT

    119 MrK
    Bestiality isd not consensual. How can an animal consent to a man? This is totally s t u p i d.

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  123. 125 flag chisha mwamba

    #80,81 INDEPENDENT OBSERVER.

    Oh, so you don’t hold the Entire Gay Community responsible for Human Trafficking in Europe or/ Zambia?

    So then it shouldn’t be a problem for the Gay Community to live freely and enjoy all the civil liberties that you and I do in Zambia and anywhere else in the world right?

    Great, glad we agree! Here I was thinking you were prejudice.

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  124. 126 flag drawing

    I used to be suggested this web site by my cousin. I am now not sure whether this put up is written by means of him as no one else understand such unique about my difficulty. You’re amazing! Thank you!

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