Thursday, March 28, 2024

National Constitutional Conference Act is dictatorial – Hansungule

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profhansungule.jpgA Constitutional Lawyer, Prof. Michelo Hansungule, said the National Constitutional Conference Act is dictatorial.

Prof. Hansungule said this in a presentation on the constitution making process at a stakeholders consultative Conference organised by the OASIS Forum at Mulungushi International Conference Centre.

He said the Act has given too much power to the President.

Chief Government Spokesperson, Mike Mulongoti, said there is nothing wrong with the Act.

Mr. Mulongoti wondered why Prof. Hansungule and others chose to criticise the Act after its enactment.

He said every person had the opportunity to contribute towards the Act before Presidential assent.

Heritage Party President, Godfrey Miyanda and All Peoples Congress Party leader, Ken Ngondo were among prominent persons in attendance.

62 COMMENTS

  1. just coz legislation is enacted doesnt stop one from commenting.

    its the impact of the the legislation and its efficacy that matters not just some prints on paper.learn to be proactive and not reactive

  2. This indeed is hilarious. A zambia professor stands up on the podium, gives a talk based his research, knwoledge and experience on a constitution and sits down and then a political cadre who probably has probably never seen the inside of a university lecture hall stands up and says you are wrong. How funny. This breed of cadres is “anaza,.. zoz are zoz.” They can even stand up to a prof’s researched work. On what paper or publication do these cadres base their confidence to challenge an academic? LPM’s crooks thesis from the Ruins?

  3. Well i dont know where you guys are coming from on this issue. Honestly, The Bill was drafted and i did nt hear any oasis or Hansegule raise any objection to any section or paragrapg of the Bill. Now the bill is enacted and passed into law, you have Oasis pull out and Hansengule says the piece of legislation is dictatorial. Something is amis here. These people are not being candid. If we follow the flip flop nature of Oasis we will never have a new constitution. Leadership is about influence. Oasis should have stayed in NCC . They should have aired their concerns during the bill draft consultations. If you guys expect LPM to be a spectator in this game you are one sandwitch short of a picnic. It anint gona happen. The last time i checked he was still Z presido and by law he is the castodian of the constition. He swor to protect and defend it. my advise is work with LPM stay at the table until issues are resolved,dont walk away. Walking away is childish and shouldnt be supported.

  4. #4 SAGE.What`s the purpose of having any deliberations if LPM will have his way and use participants of the NCC as his rubber stamp?

  5. I could appreciate your argument if the pullout happened during the draft phase. There were objections about LPM appointing the chair person of NCC. And that was changed. other than that i havent heard any significant reason for a pull out. I havent heard Sata object or suggest anything thus far. You have to realise that Oasis is trying to hold Zambians hostage. For their own information we will have a new constitution with or without them. besides who do they represent? I know Hansengule is an arm chair critic representing HH. All well meaning Zambians can see that atleast LPM has been flexible enough on the constitution issue. the NCC was not even LPMs brain child but he went for it.

  6. Mwaiche SAGE (4),
    Allow me to acknowledge your accurate points there. For the very first time you have posted a piece reflective of a human being with functional brain cells worth of debating. That is consistent with some level of realistic analysis worth correcting the helpless fallacy misleading many of fellow cadres here.

  7. FACT , thanks for you complement. Like i always say .I’m a Zambian first and on important issues like this we have to put our political differences aside.

  8. The problem with these professors and politician is to make mileage on some issues which are obvious. We have been debating adoption of the constitution for a long time now and it is time to move a step further. The NCC bill is a step ahead, and the best we can do is go ans it ans see how we can influence while in the process. The Oasis is even in embarrasing position and if they continue in the same path bedding with Chiluba, soon they will be irrelevant. Remember how Chiluba smeared Mazoka with dirty after they met under a Tree drinking chibwantu.

  9. Sage, ideally it would be beneficial for the Oasis Forum to stay in the NCC.However, the fact still remains that they have been opposed to an NCC from the start.If they stayed in it, they will be seen as a directionless group seeking only a penny more in their pockets.Frankly, they have stood their grounds and I am pleased with them.Remember, LPM could have sworn to protect and defend the constitution, however, that does not mean he should neglect totally what the majority say is the best path for adopting and enacting the new constitution.He admitted himself that he was disappointed at the levels of ignorance on the issue of the constitution by his own ministers.Do you then think these people are ready to articulate issues in a more objective manner?How can they contribute to something they do not understand?Let people debate this issue objectively.No one side is absolutely right but every view expressed must be considered.

  10. KCC…Your are right ,but running away is not a solution. They where part of the draft bill.first of what are the reasons they choose to cut and run. can some one give us the main reasons they have given for their departure.

  11. KCC (11),
    If you have to intellectually help foster this important debate, come out objective than driving some individualistic fallacies. It’s more logical to zero on the important points raised by SAGE in # 4 than subjective wrong view of consensus vs. interest. FYI a call to deliberation does not turn the custodian into blind subservience.

    With that said I advise you to read and learn from the debates and heat that characterized constitutional issues in America under the Federalists. Look at the positions of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson the fierce rivals who patriotically served the Nation under each other’s Presidency from the elections of 1796 and 1800. When it came to the constitutional glitches leading to Marbury vs. Madison (1803), none abandoned the debates for reforms to the articles of Confederations. They locked themselves in the deliberations with a spirit of give and take.

    May be the constitution should include clauses empowering citizens to apply for a “writ of mandamus” before the judiciary against Government and civic societies in receipt of donor funds to do what we expect them to do. Otherwise we risk continuing with politically delegated obstructionists in NGOs when the agenda is selfish and retrogressive.

    Certainly, the motive of Oasis Forum to withdraw from the NCC at the 11th hour is nothing but an act of misplaced hope of sabotaging the national constitution process through illegitimacy. Hear me, posterity will judge them harshly will time will render them eternal write-offs if Government and patriotic Zambians can direct their resources on mass and directed communications from border to border. It’s only that President Mwanawasa endeavoring to realize a political legacy magnanimity and pragmatism. Finishing and defining these renegades before Zambians is very easy and economically within the discretionally allocations for national interest.

    But lawyers are always mindful, tolerant and with space for all.

  12. Their withdrawal is Victory for Levy, there will be no one to oppose in the NCC now. He can pass whatever constitution clues he likes now. This can be compared to Kaunda getting UNIP to “boycot” 1996 polls and leaving the plunderer,FTJ with virtually no opposition after….

  13. The Oasis Forum folks have run from NCC after realizing the price of their fragrance for political indulgence which has resulted into a “catch 22” situation. They have been using Given Lubinda PF a politician to drive political agendas against MMD instead of directly confronting MMD on many open platforms in their capacity as a civic organization. That mistake has alienated them from a strong support base they enjoyed over the years as a front of progressive diversity.

    The majority and founders of this group were MMD dissidents such as Lt. General Tembo, Dipak Patel,Simukonda, Nawakwi, Brig. Miyanda to mention but a few. The founders have since assimilated themselves into political structures leaving OS without a civic vision and critical mass to consolidate any national interest as it were. Today it all its programs and actions are vividly implanted PF agendas a fact that is pushing them to Calvary faster than they imagined.

    From inside sources I have reliably learnt of deep rivalry- power struggle, irreconcilable accusing fingers on beneficiaries of the donor funds and camps pushing for transformation into a political party and consequential registration in accordance with the societies Act. Chiluba is their consultant in reaching leadership consensus. But that will be the end of them all. Their diversity, spurious allegiances and lack of a shared popular ideology are countable variables towards self managed defeat.

  14. With due respect to the Prof., which rock did he crawl under from? This NCC thing has been at the debate level for a long time now! He had to wait for it’s enactment to let his stand known???

  15. Personally i dont really care who their consultant is. But i do resent the fact that they are running away from the bill they co authured. The truth is there will always be differences between people and of course political or civic groups. I didnt expect PF ,Oasis or MMD to agree on every neety greety detail. But they should have stayed at the negotiating table. The fact that the bill has been signed into law doesnt mean it cant be amended. If Oasis have valid reasons changes can be made. We should also realise that Oasis doesnt represent anybody. They have no political mandate infact they are an elegal organization. We cannot allow oasis to hold us hostage on an inportant issue as making a constitution. Like i have said time and again. LPM is the incumbent, in september 2006 he earned political capital. Wether we like him or not he has been given a task to provide leadership by the Zambian people. The sooner Oasis realises that, the better.

  16. # 17,
    Imposter or the real SAGE I don’t care but keen to say I have no reason to amplify or clarify anything in your remarks but quote the forthright statement therein.

    I quote “We should also realize that Oasis doesn’t represent anybody. They have no political mandate infact they are an illegal organization. We cannot allow oasis to hold us hostage on an important issue as making the constitution.” End quote

    All is in your message.

    SUMMARY LINE: OASIS has no constituency, legitimacy or mandate to blackmail GRZ in effort of making the latter allow interests of Oasis Forum take precedence over the nation. Let’s forget them and time will eternally write them off and record them as visionless renegades.

  17. Uko!!

    OASIS FORUM DIFFER

    By ANGELA CHISHIMBA
    THE civil society consultative meeting on the constitution yesterday failed to agree on whether to boycott the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) or not.
    The Zambia Congress of Trade Union (ZCTU) and the All People’s Congress (APC) party declared they would participate in the NCC.
    But the majority of some organisations indicated that they were still making consultations on the matter.
    Those still undecided include the Evangelical Fellowship of Zambia (EFZ), Law Association of Zambia, and Southern African Centre for Constructive Resolution of Disputes, Islamic Association of Zambia, University of Zambia Student’s Union, and Copperbelt University Students Union.
    The only organisations that said they will boycott the NCC are: The Zambia Episcopal Conference (ZEC), Council of Churches in Zambia (CCZ), Transparency International Zambia, Citizens Forum, Coalition 2008, African Women Millennium Initiative, Federation of Free Trade Unions of Zambia and the Non-Governmental Organisations Coordinating Council (NGOCC) as a mother-body. But some of its constituent members do not agree.
    ZCTU deputy president, Sam Phiri, said the union has always participated in national issues and, therefore, would do the same on the NCC.
    “We don’t believe that withdrawing from this process will be in the best interest of our members,” he said.
    APC president, Ken Ngondo, said there was need for Zambians to give credit to President Mwanawasa for the manner in which he was moving the constitution-making process.
    “No President has taken us this far,” he said.
    Mr Ngondo said the APC would support the NCC and stay engaged to the very end.
    EFZ executive director, Bishop Paul Mususu, said the church mother-body would table the NCC question before a board meeting today.
    ZEC representative, Father Joe Komakoma, said the Catholic bishops’ group felt it was not proper to participate in the process if the NCC Act remained in its current form.
    CCZ general-secretary, Reverend Suzanne Matale, said 70 per cent of the membership decided not to participate in the NCC.
    NGOCC chairperson, Marian Munyinda, said the organisation felt it would not be beneficial to attend a conference whose composition was “biased” towards Government.
    Heritage Party president, Godfrey Miyanda, said the party would not accept the NCC Act in its current form.
    “This is a time of wisdom.
    If you feel participating in the NCC will compromise your birthright, then do not participate,” he said.
    And Lusaka lawyer, William Mweemba, agreed with William Harrington, a former member of the Mung’omba Constitutional Review Commission (CRC) who said Government should have allowed the former commissioners who sat on CRC to be part of the NCC.
    The meeting agreed to set up a team of eminent persons and chiefs to engage President Mwanawasa on the NCC.
    They also said they would establish a shadow body to counter the NCC.
    The meeting agreed on the mass sensitisation of members of the public on the “defects” of the NCC Act and lobbying Government to allow civil society to access funds meant for the process.
    Others who attended the meeting were Chieftainess Nkhomeshya and former UNIP secretary-general, Grey Zulu.
    Earlier, a Mongu resident, Kamuti Kamwendo, asked the Oasis Forum to rescind its decision to pull out of the NCC.
    “We need to move forward, don’t be cowards, but face this issue,” he said.

  18. I have a bone to pick with our so called Prof’s it it great to have inteligent, educated interlectuals if they are an asset to the nation, but with our prof’s I have not heard of anyone of them doing greatly enovative staff. They being some of our great minds should have by now brought in really inovative ideas how uninteligent it truely is to wait for the bill to be passed then come up with something like this. I think it’s great that is has been passed. I also do not think one Prof’s comments should disrupt the progress made Viva Zed.

  19. Fellow country men,what you are forgetting is,to be highly educated is not leadership and leadership not to be highly educated.Had it been so, we could have been seeing schools for leaders to be.We must not listen too much to these people called professors.Mugabe has got 19 degrees,how are they helping him?Because of plenty degrees he cant listen to anyone.Be on the look out.

  20. Those supporting the NCC in its format seem not to have been following the events properly. Mulungoti and LPM and George have not been willing to incorporate what others like OASIS forum have been suggesting.
    Therefore there is no reason to stay with NCC if in the first place reason has been thrown away.
    Dictorial as it is which just tells me that the next president would want to change the consitution again. LPM should stick to the original idea and not impose.
    Changes must be made or let them go alone. We shall change it again.

  21. I think that before we get carried away in our debate,we`ve got to ask ourselves a very simple question as to why we want to change our constitution.What are we doing differently that the CHONA,MVUNGA and MWANAKATWE commissions failed to accomplish?This all boils down to the draconian laws we have in relation to the excessive powers vested in an individual(office) and that`s the PRESIDENT.I realise that the OASIS isn`t an elected body but that does not say that the don`t have a contituency that the represent.People need to realise that the reason the OASIS is even having an impact is that Parliament which is a legal body that`s supposed to represent the aspirations and desires of the electorate has again failed it`s people.

  22. Comrade Chapi’s statement “People need to realise that the reason the OASIS is even having an impact is that Parliament which is a legal body that`s supposed to represent the aspirations and desires of the electorate has again failed it`s people” is right on! Had parly been functonal no NGO would have felt compelled to represent people’s aspirations. The swating of Chiluba’s 3rd term bid was one such aspiration. But the forum’s in-fighting and withdrawal from the negotiation table are not the people’s will.

  23. Ba Chapi(28), i’m glad somebody else realizes that Zambians seem to have lost the plot over this constitution palaver !!What is it you all want to change kanshi ?? Change for sake of it is never beneficial.Can we be focussed and hone in on specifics.Oasis are a pressure group who represent no-one but themselves and like someone said earlier, the method of adoption is going to go through with or without them.where was all this “opposition” when the bill was in draft form??When the topic begins to touch on the real issues of CONTENT in the constitution i shall return to the discussion tabl,to offer my humble opinions,at the minute you seem to be going around in circles !!

  24. The OASIS forum why wait until the bill has been enacted, where were al these voices at the deliberation stage. It is true indeed that in Zambia there so many people who live off non issues and atagonism. Among the three presidents Levy has tried his best to be accomodating over the constitution making proccess.I agree with some commenator who said that sometimes democracy can be costly and wastefull.
    No wonder the OASIS FORUM is now consulting Chiluba. They have lost it…
    Shame

  25. This good for nothing CITIZEN has started ukupepa dobo yakasuba and he is not seeing any nothing wrong with Chuchu’s craft behaviour in NCC and he busy bootlicking him. Shame on u

  26. Sorry fellow LT bloggers, I read Nkandu Luo’s comment on Bibles and Condoms saying, “We are seriously calling on the government to come up with a policy to compel all hotels and lodges to start distributing free condoms in all rooms, just as Bibles are freely distributed. It must be a matter of policy as a prevention measure, and all defaulting operators should not be given operating licenses. It’s long overdue, and it must be done,” Nkandu Luo, an HIV/AIDS consultant and former health minister, told IRIN/PlusNews.

    Can Luo & those who are advocating free condoms in hotels & guest houses be told that we don’t want free condoms in hotels & guest houses. If hotels & guest houses are forced by law to do so, all hotel and guest house guests will indirectly be paying for other people’s condoms through increased rates. Although I am not for encouraging people to use condoms, if people want condoms, they should buy them themselves. Luo, suggest something sensible & not free condoms, please.

  27. Our focus on this topic shouldn`t be on who`s in or who`s out of the NCC but the CONTENTS of what we need in our new constitution.Some of the contentious issues that I am aware of are;
    1.The 50% + 1 votes needed to be elected President
    2.Declaration of Zambia as a Christian nation
    3.Guarantee of seperation of POWERS
    4.Reducing Excessive Presidential Powers.
    We would do ourselves a big favour if we can zero in on the contents unlike having an aimless debate.

  28. Fellow bloggers, As we debate, I thought this might be of interest. ‘There was a one hour interview on CNBC with Warren Buffet, the second richest man who has donated $31 billion to charity Here are some very
    interesting aspects of his life:

    1. He bought his first share at age 11 and he now regrets that he started too late!
    2. He bought a small farm at age 14 with savings from delivering newspapers.
    3. He still lives in the same small 3-bedroom house in mid-town Omaha, that he bought after he got married 50 years ago. He says that he has everything he
    needs in that house. His house does not have a wall or a fence.
    4. He drives his own car everywhere and does not have a driver or security people around him.
    5. He never travels by private jet, although he owns the world’s largest private jet company.
    6. His company, Berkshire Hathaway, owns 63 companies. He writes only one letter each year to the CEOs of these companies, giving them goals for the year.
    He never holds meetings or calls them on a regular basis. He has given his CEO’s only two rules. Rule number 1: do not lose any of your share holder’s money.
    Rule number 2: Do not forget rule number 1.
    7. He does not socialize with the high society crowd. His past time after he gets home is to make himself some pop corn and watch Television.
    8. Bill Gates, the world’s richest man met him for the first time only 5 years ago. Bill Gates did not think he had anything in common with Warren Buffet. So he had
    scheduled his meeting only for half hour. But when Gates met him, the meeting lasted for ten hours and Bill Gates
    became a devotee of Warren Buffet.
    9. Warren Buffet does not carry a cell phone, nor has a computer on his desk.

    His advice to young people: “Stay away from credit cards and invest in yourself and
    Remember:
    A. Money doesn’t create man but it is the man who created money.
    B. Live your life as simple as you are.
    C. Don’t do what others say, just listen them, but do what you feel good.
    D. Don’t go on brand name; just wear those things in which u feel comfortable.
    E. Don’t waste your money on unnecessary things; just spend on them who really in need rather.
    F. After all it’s your life then why give chance to others to rule our life.”

  29. It is difficult to positively contribute to the debate on the NCC Act without reading the provisions of the Act. Can someone please post excepts of the Act. for folks in the diaspora. The only disappointing fact is that Prof. Hansungule decides to speak out after The President has already consented to the bill.

    Can someone please post the contents of the NCC Act.

  30. Ba Chapi(34), thank you sir !!
    1. 50% +1 : re-runs are gonna be quite expensive but a necessary evil to preserve our fledgling democracy !
    2.Christian nation declaration : is this in the constitution ? the freedom of worship is an attractive element of the existing constitution.The declaration was just FTJ in a mad frenzy and if it is there it must be removed!!
    3 & 4 : there is such a fine line between these two. I offer my suggestion in the area of appointments: the DPP and AG must be elected..Supreme Court appointments for life…District/Provincial/Insp. General of Police elective….i end here, for others to add/delete or God forbid disagree !!

  31. Ba Chapi, i also suggest the President and VP be elected at the same time…the VP as a running mate and automatic replacement in the event of ill health,death,impeachment etc etc of the President.

  32. “Insp. General of Police elective” Quote

    I presume the cited piece above is a joke of testing the waters. Never head of such anywhere throughout history. The Chief custodian of such a strategic arm of Government-institutional office with absolute jurisdiction of national safety going elective.Nomination and ratification have nothing to do with constitutional electibility of bearers to that office. If that were the case, who would elect the IG?

  33. #34 Chapi… We all agree that the Zambian constitution has draconian laws. We also know that all these politicians are not really interested in a new constitution. If they where in power today they wouldnt even allow the process to go own because the current const favours the pips in power. So be careful what you wish for. The primary pre ocupation of all the political “leaders” is plot one. They are not looking at human rights they dont want to guarantee you and me the inalienable rights such as life ,liberty and the persuit of happiness. With all due respect the past 2 presidents used the commisions as a pasifier, They never intended to fix it because it suited them. LPM on the other hand is willing to sit with people he is not obligated to. You are forgeting that he is the only one with a duty to protect the constitution. I hope the Oasis can realise this. He can not be a spectater in this game. Understand that its the Oasis negotiating with LPM not the other way arround.

  34. FACT.. In USA the sherrif is elected by the people, The state attoney general is elected the city police chief (LAPD) is appointed by the mayor. Honestly we dont need a national police force. We can have provincial police departmenst whose heads(chiefs) elected by people. Thats how you will reduce police brutality. Quite franckly Zambia police services only serves plot one.

  35. Bwana TimothyZ(35),
    Early smart investment is the way to go. Newly born kids plug them in some wealth on the spot with their educational funds cummulatively growing big every period. But don’t stop there keep scanning and investing in the market especially in small caps. The returns are phenomenal to say the least. Its important for visionaly people to set our goals right in life early because time is the worst enermy.Equally important to prudently manage our debt ratios in our early years. FYI, even politicians today are scanning the Global market and building big portfolios to sustain their future dreams. Rhetoric + smart investment is the the progressive way.

  36. Ba Fact(39), Following on from Sage(41) please also note that in the United States, where elected sheriffs control both prisons and policing in their counties, law enforcement officers have the freedom to crack down on or devise innovative new approaches to dealing with crime.

    It isn’t as ludicrous as it first appears.Maybe as Africans we should think outside of the box for once.

    Elected office bearers have a primary resposibility to serve their electors who are the majority and not just the appointing authority.

    I think it is something that merits greater thought and consideration as we hope to help in the evolution of a political system that will serve the people of Zambia better. I’m assuming that is what we all want.

  37. Chapi,
    You are not giving me confidence to presume that you have a good grip of the US Government system as regards structure of the Federal and State Governments. To test the waters allow me to humbly ask you: what constitutional office in the Fed do you equate our IG to?

    FYI and resourcefulness of our debate, I humbly reveal that my dear brother I’m no stranger to the USA Government you keep citing. Fortunately i was Ka School boy there for years and out of interest i went some extra miles in curricular by taking classes way off my Degree program all for future dreams. Please know that i’m not a lawyer but ordinary brother keen to broaden my knowledge base. I wittingly took classes in the US Constitutional law, civil Liberties and individual Rights, I also studied the American Public Budgeting and Taxation besides the President’s Energy, Foreign and domestic policy.So not a stranger brother we can debate on if there is anything i don’t know. Will certainly appreciate and salute

  38. Chapi,
    You are not giving me confidence to presume that you have a good grip of the US Government system as regards structure of the Federal and State Governments. To test the waters allow me to humbly ask you: what constitutional office in the Fed do you equate our IG to go elective?

  39. appointed by the president, confirmed by the senate. The day to day law inforcement is not the primary mandate of the FBI. The day to day law enforcement is carried out by the Sherrifs depertment and the local city police departments.However, the FBI can step in anytime when a federal crime has been commited or the perpetrator has crossed city or county jurisdictional lines.

  40. #44 & #45 FACT.Point of correction!!!I haven`t made any reference to the US government in my earlier comments.Kindly help me out by pointing specifically were your disagreement is based?Otherwise,I am enjoying this kind of debate and I`ll be back later.

  41. Finance Ministry Rejects Kansanshi Tax Rebate Request

    The Times of Zambia (Ndola)

    NEWS
    14 September 2007
    Posted to the web 14 September 2007
    Lusaka

    THE ministry of Finance and National Planning has rejected a request by the Solwezi Municipal Council for a tax rebate on Kansanshi mining activities for the company to develop the district.

    Finance Minister, Ng’ande Magande said the proposition was contrary to current laws and Government’s policy of not giving discretionary blanket tax exemptions to commercial entities.

    Mr Magande, however, conceded in a letter of September 11, 2007 to Solwezi mayor, Emmanuel Chihili that issues on the need to have orderly infrastructure development in Solwezi were genuine and need immediate attention.

    “My view is that these should be tackled within the confines of the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and annual national budgets.

    “By copy of this letter, I am reminding and drawing attention to my colleagues in the ministries of Local Government and Housing and Works and Supply over the same issues and see how we can move forward,” he said.

    The minister said if the proposed infrastructure were brought to the attention of the relevant authorities, ways could be found to reduce some Government imposition.

    Mayor Chihili, who is also Kansanshi Foundation Trust coordinator, received Mr Magande’s letter some 24 hours after handing over the Foundation’s status report to North-Western Province Minister, Kenneth Chipungu.

    The report, covering June 2006- June 2007 projects, include the multi-million Kwacha project proposals from the Solwezi Municipal Council for the construction of a modern civic centre.

    The other proposals from the local authority included construction of a fire station, construction of centralised sewer treatment plant, procurement of three vans for service delivery and expansion of Solwezi main market.

    The report says almost all the projects could be attainable if the Government consented to a joint appeal of Kansanshi and council management to have tax rebates on the mines.

    The Kansanshi Foundation Trust, which has spent more than K3 billion since its inception in June 2006, is a non-profit making organisation funded by Kansanshi Mine board to upgrade physical and social infrastructure in Solwezi. “The foundation is the vehicle through which Kansanshi Mining is able to plough back some of its earnings into the community as part of its corporate social responsibility,” the report says.

  42. KCC (52),
    Still engaged with lifeline responsibilities I will certainly be back for debate in some hours time. But for now refer to my post # 39 i quote “Nomination and ratification have nothing to do with constitutional elections of bearers to institutional offices. If that were the case, who would elect the IG for the job? First take some interest to understand the dynamics of NOMINATION & RATIFICATION Vs. Elections.

    For now its Alios

  43. Fact(53), district and provincial police chiefs to be elected, who in turn form an electrol college to elect an IG ?? Maybe IG a presidential nominee subject to parliamentary ratification???

  44. Guys if you go with the system of electing your provincial police chiefs you practically have no need for the IG. In essence you are trying to do away with one person who has never been to Kaputa making decisions for people in Kaputa. In USA its necessary to have the FBI because states are “independent”. But in Z provinces are not so the need to have a secondary police with multi jurisdictional powers does not arise. We have practically moduled our government on a kingdom premis. in UK, the queen is above the law. She excercise absolute power. Thats why you need one person the IG answering to the PM. But we are not a kingdom. we dont need one person deciding our destiny. We have fought for self determination which unfortunatelly hasnt materialised because each block we put in P1. Starts thinking he is a king. If you look at ZPS today. Mateo is only know and operates in Lusaka. And half the time he is just in the way. What does he do in Lusaka that the police chief can not do?

  45. Sage(55), i agree…..do away with an IG as his role is irrelevant if provincials are elected.Leave it to the Home Affairs minister to co-ordinate national policing ?? Maybe for once the Home Affairs minister will have a real job to goto each day !!

  46. FACT, it is people like you who would elect an IG in your precinct.What we are trying to put across to you is that we do not need an appointed IG to run the countrys’ Police Service.We need each district to have it’s own IG (Sheriff).

  47. KCC(57), your choice of the word “precinct” is very interesting.I’m calling it a night but first thing tomorrow, i’ll be checking how this thread pans out!

  48. KUNDA CHALLENGES OASIS TO EXPLAIN THEIR ALLIANCE WITH CHILUBA

    By Brighton Phiri: Sunday September 16, 2007 [10:40]

    JUSTICE minister George Kunda yesterday challenged the Oasis Forum to explain their alliance with former president Frederick Chiluba over the constitution-making process.

    And Kunda accused The Post of working with Chiluba and the Oasis Forum against the government on the constitution-making process.
    Meanwhile, Kunda maintained that the government would implement the NCC Act to the full.

    Addressing the press at his office, Kunda wondered why the Oasis Forum had ganged up with Chiluba, Patriotic Front (PF) president Michael Sata and Heritage Party president Brigadier General Godfrey Miyanda when they were the main architects of the constitution crisis Zambia was currently facing.

    “The contradictions in the Oasis Forum are amazing. It appears the common thread in this grouping is the hatred for President Mwanawasa and the new deal government.

    For how do you explain the new alliance between the Oasis Forum and people like president Dr. Chiluba, General Godfrey Miyanda and Mr Sata,” Kunda said. “These are the main architects of the problems we are now facing on the constitution and yet they are being glorified. How do you explain The Post newspaper’s glorifying of these people? Is it not a contradiction that Mr Fred M’membe and the Press Freedom Committee of The Post wittingly or unwittingly should be working with Dr Chiluba? The Post newspaper has a great influence on this process and it would appear The Post charts the Oasis agenda. Why should the Oasis Forum form an alliance with Dr Chiluba? The Oasis was conceived to fight Dr Chiluba’s machinations to go for an unconstitutional third term.”

    On the just-ended Oasis Forum consultative conference, Kunda wondered why former Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) president William Mweemba was speaking on behalf of the association when he lost elections at the last LAZ annual general meeting.

    “His fellow professional membership rejected him for good reason when he attempted to go into the Council of LAZ. He is still using LAZ to pursue his own hidden personal political agenda,” Kunda said. “In my assessment Mr. Mweemba can join any grouping, which has hatred against President Mwanawasa and the government. He has so much hatred against the current government and some individuals in the government.

    Mr William Mweemba, former president of LAZ, also made a presentation to the Oasis Forum meeting. When he asked the audience to indicate whether they had read the CRC report, only a few of them raised their hands, to the utter shock of Mr Mweemba, meaning that the Oasis membership has not been interested in the content of the Constitution. Perhaps this explains why some people are resisting to go for the constitutional conference. They would rather continue repeating the same monotonous arguments advanced over the years on the adoption process.”

    He dismissed Mweemba’s remarks that the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) should not temper with the Mung’omba Constitution Review Commission (CRC) recommendations.

    Kunda said the NCC Act and its composition were better than that which was recommended by the CRC.
    “The question is why should a document prepared by 40 Commissioners be superior to the wisdom of over 450 NCC members? Mr Mweemba should know that some of the conclusions of the CRC including some aspects of the draft constitution reflected the Commissioners’ own views and not necessarily those of the people,” he said.
    On PF’s threats to block the implementation of the NCC Act through the courts of law, Kunda said government had sufficient legal capacity to deal with any court action.
    “We have been sued before,” he said.

    He said the NCC Act was the only lawful basis for the structure, composition and function of the conference.
    Kunda announced that the process of appointing members of the conference would commence next week and that it was government’s intention to convene the conference as quickly as possible. He said the government through its constitution review process implementation committee would work on a sensitisation programme aimed at creating awareness on the conference.

    Kunda said the government did not accept arguments being advanced by some interest groups that the composition of the conference was unfair.
    “In fact, the composition is far much better and fairer than that recommended by the Mung’omba Constitution Review Commission. For example, we have removed the CRC recommendation which suggested that the President should appoint 10 eminent persons because of insinuation that the President already enjoyed too much powers,” he said. “It is therefore surprising that the same people such as the Oasis Forum who advocate for the reduction of presidential powers should be the same people now insisting on the unfettered implementation of the CRC recommendations.”

    Kunda wondered why the Oasis Forum was complaining about the high number of politicians in the NCC composition as they advocated for increased number of politicians when suggested to government that the councillors should be included on the list of those attending the NCC. He said the government would proceed to enforce the law as it is and not as some people would like it to be.

    On Professor Michelo Hansungule’s presentation during the Oasis Forum conference, Kunda said it was clear that Prof Hansungule did not know that the NCC Bill was amended to remove the presidential powers of appointing NCC members and its chairperson.

    “Professor Michelo Hansungule made some disturbing utterances at the recent poorly attended Oasis Forum meeting.

    He is quoted to have said that government was dictatorial and arrogant and that the NCC Bill was a vivid example of such dictatorship. He alleged that there was so much reference to the President in the Bill as to render it dictatorial,” Kunda said.

    “When challenged by learned Counsel Mr Ngenda Sipalo at this meeting to refer specifically to the several sections in the enacted NCC Act, which allegedly referred to the President, he lamentably failed to do so and instead encouraged the unsuspecting audience to read his paper which he said contained such references.

    This was untrue. He merely said this to saved face as the only power now reserved to the President in the Act is that related to the dissolution of the conference on the specific grounds stated therein. It was clear from Professor Hansungule’s presentation that he was reading the NCC Bill presented to Parliament and since he is based in South Africa where he is living in comfort and enjoying fat perks in foreign currency, he was not aware that the Bill had been amended to remove the power of the President to appoint members and the chair of the conference,”

    Kunda said Prof Hansungule had been on the loose for a long time and that his crusade of misleading Zambians on political issues had continued unchecked.
    “This must come to an end. Although Hansungule has been referred to as a constitutional lawyer, he is an academic lawyer who has never practiced law in Zambia,” Kunda said. “We expected Professor Hansungule to guide the nation rather than lower his profile as a professor through unresearched presentations.”

    Kunda urged Prof Hansungule to emulate US-based Prof Muna Ndulo, whom he said endeavoured to make constructive suggestions on the constitutional review process.
    “Prof Hansungule seems to be propelled by incorrigible hatred against President Mwanawasa. The constitutional review process should be about improving the constitution and not undermining President Mwanawasa and the current government. In future, statements from Prof Hansungule will not go unchecked,” Kunda said.
    Speaking during the Oasis Forum consultative conference, Brig Gen Miyanda warned that the civil society risked being crashed by the government’s inbuilt majority if they attended the NCC.

    Mweemba, who is also LAZ’s law reforms committee chairperson, said it was unacceptable for President Mwanawasa and the National Assembly to assume the role of providing the people with a constitution because they were products of a constitution.

    Prof Hansungule said the British model of constitution-making was the major source of constitutional crisis in Africa. He said the current constitutional problems in Zambia emanate from President Mwanawasa because his expectations were contrary to what the Mung’omba Constitution Review Commission (CRC) presented to him.

    “President Mwanawasa’s conduct on this constitution-making process is an example of dictatorship. NCC Act is an example of dictatorship; the problem is rampant arrogance among stakeholders,” said Prof Hansungule.

  49. .
    Had the founding values of Oasis Forum been observed, the Oasis Forum would have avoided this costly move of being labeled fronts of Chiluba, Sata and Miyanda. This is very bad propaganda if properly managed is bound to kill the oasis Forum. Zambians know what the trio did to the Mwanakatwe draft Constitution and their machination to rape the constitution for an illegal third term.

    CHILUBA, SATA, MIYANDA ACCUSED OF BACKING OASIS

    By ANGELA CHISHIMBA
    FORMER President, Frederick Chiluba, has been accused of forming an alliance with the Oasis Forum to advance his alleged hatred for President Mwanawasa in the constitution-making process.
    But Dr Chiluba has described the attacks on him as baseless, unfounded and unwarranted.
    Minister of Justice, George Kunda, has also accused Heritage Party president, Godfrey Miyanda, and his Patriotic Front (PF) counterpart, Michael Sata, of participating in the scheme.
    “How do you explain the new alliance between the Oasis Forum and people like former President Dr Chiluba, General Godfrey Miyanda and Mr Sata,” he asked.
    Mr Kunda said the three were allegedly the main architects of the problems the country was facing in the constitution-making process.
    “Why should the Oasis Forum form an alliance with Dr Chiluba? The Oasis was conceived to fight Dr Chiluba’s machinations to go for an unconstitutional third term,” he said.
    But Dr Chiluba said in his response that Mr Kunda’s attacks were baseless.
    He said this through his spokesperson, Emmanuel Mwamba, who also said Dr Chiluba would issue a detailed reaction later.
    Mr Kunda was also astonished that former Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) president, William Mweemba was allegedly still leading the association after the last LAZ annual general meeting when he did not seek re-election.
    He wondered why Mr Mweemba was still using LAZ to allegedly pursue his own personal political agenda.
    “In my assessment, Mr Mweemba can join any group which has hatred against President Mwanawasa and Government.
    He has so much hatred against the current Government and some individuals in Government.
    It is clear from this that the constitution review process is now being used as a political agenda to undermine the New Deal government,” he said.
    But Mr Mweemba said he was representing LAZ as member of the committee on law reform and research when he spoke at the consultative meeting.
    He denied having a political agenda and that if he wanted to be a politician, he would have joined a political party.
    Mr Mweemba said when LAZ was asked to comment on the NCC Bill, it was his committee and the association’s constitution review committee that formulated a position.
    “Even when we submitted our comments, I went with the LAZ president, Elijah Banda.
    I don’t head LAZ anymore,” he said.
    And Mr Kunda said South Africa-based lecturer, Professor Michelo Hansungule, misled the public by reading the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) Bill presented to Parliament and not the Act.
    He said he was disappointed that Prof Hansungule was not aware that the Bill had been amended to remove the power of the President to appoint members and the chairperson of the conference.
    “Professor Hansungule has been on the loose for a long time and his crusade of misleading Zambians on political issues has continued unchecked.
    This must now come to an end,” he said.
    Mr Kunda accused Prof Hansungule of making generalised political statements without reference to specific legal provisions in the NCC Act and the constitution.
    “The constitution review process should be about improving the constitution and not undermining President Mwanawasa and the current Government.
    In future, statements from Professor Hansungule will not go unchecked.
    And Mr Kunda asked members of the Oasis Forum to read the report and the recommendations of the CRC.
    He was referring to an incident where only a few members of the Forum indicated that they had read the contents of the CRC report.
    This was during a presentation made by Mr Mweemba.
    “Perhaps this explains why some people are resisting going to the constitutional conference.
    They would rather continue repeating the same monotonous arguments advanced over the years on the adoption process,” Mr Kunda said.
    And Mr Kunda said it was important to debate the contents of the CRC report as some aspects of the draft constitution reflected the commissioners’ own views and not necessarily those of the people.
    “The question is: why should a document prepared by 40 commissioners be superior to the wisdom of over 450 NCC members,” Mr Kunda said.

  50. BOYCOTT NCC AT OWN PERIL

    By ANGELA CHISHIMBA
    ELIGIBLE civil society organisations planning to boycott the sitting of the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) will do so at their own peril, Minister of Justice, George Kunda, said yesterday.
    Mr Kunda said in Lusaka that Government would go ahead with the constitution-making process and has since intensified preparations for the sitting of the NCC.
    He was speaking at a press briefing, which was also addressed by Minister of Lands, Bradford Machila.
    “Government shall not allow a situation where persons not interested in having a new constitution hold the public to ransom and we shall proceed to enforce the law as it is and not as some people would like it to be.
    “The position of Government is that the National Constitution Conference Act No. 19 of 2007 as enacted by Parliament will be implemented to the full.
    This Act is the only lawful basis for the structure, composition and function of the conference,” Mr Kunda said.
    He said the process of appointing members of the conference would start next week.
    Mr Kunda also said Government’s constitution review process implementation committee was working on a sensitisation programme aimed at creating public awareness on the conference.
    He said the idea was to ensure that members of the public, including those in rural areas, were fully informed about the conference.
    Mr Kunda said information on the process would be disseminated in English and some local languages.
    He said Government would not accept arguments being advanced by some interest groups that the composition of the conference was unfair.
    Mr Kunda said in fact, the composition was far much better and fairer than that recommended by the Wila Mung’omba Constitutional Review Commission (CRC).
    “For example, we have removed the CRC recommendation which suggested that the President should appoint 10 eminent persons because of the insinuations that the President already enjoyed too much power.
    “It is therefore surprising that the same people, for example, the Oasis Forum, who advocate the reduction of presidential powers should be the same people now insisting on the unfettered implementation of the CRC recommendations,” he said.
    Mr Kunda accused the Oasis Forum of advocating an increase in the number of politicians.
    “The CRC also recommended the holding of elections in all the 72 districts to elect delegates to the conference, but that the Forum made representations to Government not to follow that but instead include councillors, who were politicians, to be part of the conference,” he said.
    Mr Kunda said Government conceded to this suggestion and included one councillor from each district.
    “Again to our astonishment, the Oasis Forum has turned around and demanded the full implementation of the CRC report arguing that there are too many politicians.
    This shifting of goal posts at each and every turn is confusing the public,” he said.
    Mr Kunda said stakeholders made submissions to the parliamentary committee, which dealt with the NCC bill, and that Government included more than 90 per cent of the suggestions.
    “As is usually the case, the Oasis Forum has continued to raise new issues even after the enactment of the bill with a view of sabotaging the process,” he said.
    And Mr Kunda said Government could not allow all the Wila Mung’omba CRC de-commissioned members to be part of the NCC because it wanted to give chance to other Zambians to participate in the constitution-making process.
    And Mr Machila said the country risked having a new constitution after the 2011 elections if a few individuals were allowed to continue misleading Zambians.
    “This process will go ahead with or without those who intend to boycott the NCC,” he said.
    Mr Machila also said those wishing to take the matter to court were free to do so, as Government had enough capacity to deal with the court process.

  51. Hoops!! LT has finally gone into its Graveyard. What a short lived blog life you have had to the Zambian History. May your abused role in democracy and free speech be fully realized on Zambia Online’s “Dear Mr.President Page where Diversity and objectivity are pillars of no intruision.

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