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Should I divorce her?

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Dear LT bloggers,

I would like to ask for advise about my situation. I was found to be HIV positive 7 years ago my wife is negative and we are Zambians living in the United States.
We have been living well for for the past 7years until I discovered that my wife has been cheating on me for a long time.

We have 5 children and have been in marriage for 22 years.This boy friend is claiming one of our young child aged 12 to be his child. Am still living with my wife who is claiming some of the properties we have, saying there are her benefits from our marriage and wants to sell them off and build in her province.
What should I do? Can I divorce and allow her take the properties that I have worked for all my life for her to enjoy with her new boy friend. I do not want to divorce my wife at all and I do not know what to do.

yours

Troubled

133 COMMENTS

  1. A man walked thru his front door after knocking off late from work just to find a naked man in his house.the owner of the house asked what he was doing and he replied: ndine mfwiti. The owner of the house now fuming with anger replied….iwe chika@# mfwiti inayamba liti kuvala condom

  2. I for one can not be with someone that cheats! but,
    first things first. Go for qa DNA test to find out if your youngest child is yours or not.

    There really is no point in staying with some1 that clearly wants to leave ( by her asking for stuff ), i would say let her go. some things are just not meant to be.

    Love fades.

  3. How did you find yourself positive and your wife negative? And you say your is cheating on you. The two don’t tie up. She’s probably cheating on you becaue you were cheating on her hence your positive status. Just decide on how you will share the spoils and move on.

  4. but how did come to be h.i.v if u wife is not that means there is something wrong….so let her go before she gets sick.you guuys knw how u have been livin the past years so let her go

  5. i would have said leave coz she’ll make you sick…but then again you are already sick…so its a tough one! put yourself in her shoes… i think let her go she probably feels obliged to stay with you coz you are sick….Do the right thing!!!

  6. von Goethe ,,,,i think this article falls under lifestyle and if u think its not making sense to u,,find somewere else to go and blogg from,,no wonder they burn u like dogs in sa

  7. Divorce that woman before she sends you to the grave early. With your status you don’t need to be stressed and depressed. Even with your status you can find a woman who will understand you and lead a happy life together as long as you become open to her and let her know your status. Share the properties you have with her and let her go. Such woman will never even be happy where ever she will go because she has overlooked the vows she made when you got married “till death do us apart”.

  8. Why is she claiming property when you have not devorced?
    Is she opting for devorce?
    Please shade more light, because I dont see how she can claim property which you own together as a couple.

  9. In the first place i would like to sympathise with you my brother..in the situation you are in.. The only way to stay happy is for you to send her away if you stay with a cheater she will contribute to your early departure in view of getting the things you own. Life is more important than money.. Give her what she is claiming and live a happy life.. find nice things to do like going to SDA church reading the bible with the help of GOD you will get through all these. Look to GOD for help and dont let her destroy your precious life. about your child just do some DNA to find the real truth the claim by just there to frustrate you.

  10. Scientifically speaking some people can never be HIV positive but just carriers. They just transmit to other people while they themselves do not get infected. Your wife is fortunate to be that carrier. You would be well to have doctors examine her to try and find a cure for the disease through her.

    As for her infidelity, she is probably aware that you are sick and it may be a matter of time before …… So, she is probably trying to get back at you for all those years you probably were unfaithful to her, though she also was unfaithful too.

    The best thing you can do is gather evidence about your wife’s infidelity and let the courts sort her out. You will keep the property and ………

  11. …cont’d…and children and you will live your last few years in peace. Don’t get me wrong…You may even outlive the HIV negative people if your mind is at peace. Good luck. Try to hire Cheaters or some infidelity detectives.

  12. How long have you been positive for? Lets do the math and see who was cheating who. I would say she is taking revenge. Best to separate.

  13. it makes sad reading that after all that time issues of unfaithfullness are the core root of your problems .You have not let us in on how you became positive if it was from her philandering or your zedian attitude to women where you think its ok to cheat on a woman and not vice versa.you need loads of counselling , soul searching , realism , openness and god almighty we are outsiders we dont know the real extend of the damage but all the same goodluck and stay positive .

  14. I advise you to devorce the lady. She is not straight and please do not keep her just because you are afraid of lossing your property. Remember, the courts of law may give u a fare deal provided your DNA confirms the child is not yours

  15. Iyi story yabufi. I f I were you bro. I would get on the ship and sail on to the promised land. Ifwe nipa bwatoooooo. Viva PF.

  16. People, even if the guy is HIV positive, the letter says that he discovered his status 7 years ago. So why does she want to divorce him now. To me this lady is also tricky. Besides the other guy is claiming that the 12 years old child is his. Which means even before the discovery of his status. That woman was still cheating on him. Its a fifty fifty situation. They both have been cheating on each other. Just that the husband got infected. If it was about his status, she should have divorced him when they discovered about his status. To my man, let her go if that what she wants. Repent of your sins and live life in Gods way. I wish you all the best.

  17. Von Goethe you can learn from the brothers experience and input from other bloggers on how you handle such life situations. mind you someone is might be probably getting it on with yours too.

  18. I think the brother is in trouble…..why are you holding on to something that is not there. Divorce that woman, go 4 DNA test and find a church if you dont have one otherwise with your status you’ll go to the grave early.

  19. Riders!!! Anyway, LT uis right for putting this up. They may be fictional but I have seen it in real life. This couple went to live in the US and after so many years in marriage and living there, the wife found another man when the husband’s dole clapped. Anyway, its a matter of time before this man’s wife is also found to be postive or the her new man gets sickas well. Women have strong immunity, Gos knows why. My advise to the man is go get a DNA test on your youngest child. Get yourself another lady, but tell her your status and let yourself on ARVs. share the loot if she insists (she and the new man probably don’t have their own dole). Above all put all in God’s hands. You will be happ

  20. Look to God for guidance and not man. Invite Jesus to come into your heart. Let the Holy Spirit guide and protect you always. Then God will give you direction. Depend on God in everything you are doing. Even your wife will get saved and you will live happy life till death do you part. Divorce is not a solution.

  21. there are so many fishes in the sea.why marry to start with? kulabalyafe guys lelo bream, mailo buka buka,mailo imbowa…..

  22. Now this is funny. Somebody with a ka EU Georgia Russia flag laughing at a person Soth Africa? May be this freezing to death and hunger we heard about was not true.

  23. You have not said who infected you, 7 years ago. probably you were cheating. now you discovered she was also cheating on you and wants divorce…….do unto others

  24. This problem is XXL. Trying to save this marriage would be like trying to stop flatulence from smelling. Sorry for the kids, they’re the real victims.

  25. Georgia Russia we know what to U do in Russia and its illegal down here.
    osama bin zed my nigga whats up!!
    Lets put these clown intheir place

  26. #31 that’s exactly how you spread the virus, in case you never knew. Just make sure you don’t forget the little scandal bag…

  27. you should not blame your wife where do you get hiv from ?when you answer that question ,as you know in the western world if you decide to part company with that woman you are going for 40/60 they will give all everything including the children and your tablets try and sort out the problem of the sake of the children

  28. Your wife is HIV negative and you are positive,so this simply means you were cheating on her and now she’s mad to know your status,thank you lord an innocent woman is negative and this is a big reason she is leaving you, so let her go but share your stuff equally, infact this time around you don’t dance on top of her,no need to keep her,for what aready ichimu NIGA chilekwafwa.

  29. My dear you pushed your wife to what she did. If she forgave you when you contracted the deadly desease and lived hapily for the past 7 years you can surely forgive her for reacting in such a manner.Sit down and discuss this she ia also feeling betrayed by you. You must also learn to pray togather as a family so that God ca give you guidance
    God bless you

  30. sorry my man, but try to sort out your problems and remembner to eat health. your are a family and consider your kids first, keep on praying

  31. it seems like both the husband and wife have been cheating one another. besides their 12yeaar old kid being another man’s child justifies that the woman must have been cheating on the husband for a long time. Who knows may be all their children are not his. Please let church elders to intervene in this situation, but if you dont have a church involve relatives to sit you down.

  32. I am sorry about you are going through. But dont be discouraged the Lord God is with and will never leave nor forsake you. Are you a christian? if not please give your life to Jesus and he will save you from all troubles. He is so faithful and just, to forgive your sins and heal your diseases. Tashako ena alaposha fyonse fye..as for your child do DNA and pray over it.
    Do not loose hope, God is more than able. Believe!!!!!!

  33. Divorce her and come home to vote pa bwato my brother beatiful ones are not yet born so you will find another one. Pretty you are very funny, i only hope you are a girl. GOD bless Sata GOD bless Zed

  34. Divorce her and give her nothing for cheating on you – not only the youngest child might not be yours. Wikata na kuchani iyo

  35. # 10 osama bin zed, Why are you insulting the Zambians in Russia? You enjoy other people’s problems, hey? You think it’s their choice to starve? Hope that no misfortune not of your fault befalls you, Star-of-new-york!

  36. von Goethe my friend its not every one going thru diffculties in russia,,mind u am not a student and i had to pay for my education by my self.what do u knw about russia mwaice.we knw what u do in south africa and i dnt need to remind u over the dirty games u play up there,,kwindi iwe

  37. I remember what we used to say when growing up ku makululu in kabwe, “akatanshi katanshi takalisha, akalelesha kalalisha” something like that. My brother, from what I see you started this cheating game and now you can’t stand the fact that your wife has found someone. Let her go, share your loot afterall in the 22years of marriage she contributed to it. Both of you move on.

  38. U ARE RISKING MANY PEOPLES LIVES RIGHT NOW.. IM SURE U STILL HAVE SEX WITH YO WIFE .. AND NOW SHES CHEATING SHE MAY GET OTHER PEOPLE SICK.. EHHHH ILI BAD!!!! WHAT STATE R U IN SO TINKALE STEADY KA!!! LOL

  39. Just because you are sick does not mean that you deserve to be humiliated. We don’t know the circumstances behind your health situation.

    1. Get a DNA test for all the children. Unfortunately, if one of them is not biologically yours, you may have to surrender custody to the biological father.

    2. Find out from your local elected official’s office about free legal services for people with HIV/AIDS in your community.

    3. Get a good divorce attorney. The fact that she cheated on you is good enough reason for divorce AND good enough reason for you to lay legal claim to your property. You don’t have to give up your property unless you willingly decide that you want to give her something.

  40. iwe ka Arafat Patel, gross! I never liked Indian men. you don’t know what to do with a woman in bed. you just wiggle around like a limp worm. gross!

  41. #3 Von Goethe Its called Life style and in Zambia we are Christians (or so), so if you do not understand whats going on here, go find yourself something to do while we the pipo discuss important matters here of life as we know it. I know you do have a lifestyle you’d kill to keep te? Aaha! So tanvelana

  42. The explained situation doesn’t sound very real. However, if it is true, you have omitted a lot of necessary details. (i) You say ‘your wife’s boy friend is claiming your son’. To me, this means that, you have already met this person and discussed. (ii) ‘Your wife’ wants to sell part of the property and build in ‘her province’. This has a tribal conotation and from your wife’s point of view, the marriage ended along time ago! (iii) If the 12yr old is not the youngest, there is a likelyhood that even the younger ones are for the GUY. My advise: don’t linger your mind on material things; You first need the life to even enjoy the so called the ‘things you have worked for the whole life’.

  43. Cont’d. You say you don’t want to divorce ‘your wife’. There are two sides to the equation: Suppose your would like to divorce! So, sit down with this woman and discuss and this time be sincere to each other in terms of what you want. And remember, being HIV positive is not a death sentence per se. (I just hope its not my cousin Nyirenda I am writing to). If I were a local court Justice I would have resolved the marriage forthwith!!

  44. Nkabwela (Diaspora) i dont want to imagine what you do up there boy.There are places you go to for such things and this is not one of them.
    Imotional backlogs take them somewhere else please!!!!

  45. This story sounds very familiar and it smells familiar. Can you remember the story “in health and sickness”. Let the woman free. Life is too short for both of you.

  46. Its not the devoce that is the issue here it is the welfare of the children, If your wife was the one sick would you stay? its a matter of love and commitment some people stay together no matter waht they just need to know ther limits. If she leaves you the fact is you will be a miserable man even if you where in the wrong find common ground with her and do whats best for all parties involved especially the children you have to realise that this will affect them deeply on how they perceive certain people in sociaty you want your children to be accepting and not think one of you in evil and the whole world is crap

  47. This woman probably thinks you won’t meet someone else coz of your health status. You should ask yourself whether you are happy being second best in this love triangle or not. If you are not, then probably even your children will feel the effects of that and therefore not a healthy environment for them at all. However, if you divorce and did not sign a prenaptual then you are in for it. The other guy will be the least of your worries.

  48. You bloggers are either too young to catch the joke or you have no inquisitive minds at all. This is a simple riddle. All the author of this fake article is trying to say is that at times we are quick to blame others when we are the ones who are culpable. The iron here is, the guy imagined the wife was cheating and he cheated and got the virus (HIV) and he is now regretting because the wife wants to leave. Amapindo mulechenjela!!!

  49. 7 years ago you were found with HIV and your wife is negative.You now have discovered that your wife has been cheating on you.You like your wife went about and shared your souls to the spirits you never gave a vow to.Your hearts are empty,they breath out vows to the face of the earth they can not embrace both of you are at fault.Do not divoce your wife,her sins are also yours.Hold her hand,go to church and ask for forgiveness for the path of your wife is also yours you both chose to be adulterants.Keep the child and never mention anything to the child for the child is innocent.Take the one claiming the child to court for marrage interference.

  50. Zambians learn to avoid stigmatizing the sick, most of you dont even know your status………..so quit that biggotry rhetoric.

  51. First of all you must pray and get your directions from God.
    When you don’t know what to say or what to do call on the name Jesus and let him direction you. If you are living in the USA you can find the help you need to live a fulfilling life. Many remarry with HIV and are happy.

  52. “Oh the tangled web we weave, when we practice to decieve”, heard that in America, but it stands true! This whole situation came about by deception and dishonesty. The children and their well-being are the most important issue here. What is done is done with you and HIV does not go away. You still have a chance to make something of your life, you still have a chance to be a dad to your children. Whatever you do, please do not infect others. Let all be done in respect for others. Your wife will never be happy with you, split the property, let her go and do the right thing for yourself and your children! When you are on your death bed, you will not regret it.

  53. I think this is the wrong forum altogether, people here are not is the business of counselling crumbling marriages. Besides, 22 years with 5 kids is by current standards a long fruitful run so be happy and move on with your life. Wait a minute, since you live in the USA, maybe you can call Jesse Jackson, he counselled Hilary and Bill during the Lewinsky fiasco. You can reach him via his son, here is the email: [email protected]

  54. You are HIV positive and your wife is negative,where did you get the HIV if you have been faithfull to your wife?Go for a DNA test to clear your mind about your last child and get on with your wife,remember for better for worse,in sickness and in health and you two must be together till death because God hates divorce(Malachi 2:15-16).If you have been unfaithful to your wife humble yourself and apologise,I believe she will forgive you and life will go on.I wish you all the best and above all God’s blessings.

  55. Sexual intercourse is not the only way HIV can be transmitted. Don’t victimize this young man.

    Mwe bena Zambia muli fikopo sana.

    As regards divorce, you are at liberty to make a choice. With your status, avoid situations that are stressful.

  56. This story is fake.VERY FAKE.
    In the first place where did you contract this disease? Zambia or USA?
    USA LIKE AUSTRALIA will never allow you to touch their soil if you are HIV +ve, no VISA. Period.
    Some one here is out to get someone.
    Will the wife of this troubled man speak up if this is a true story?
    As for property, THE WIFE AND CHILDREN ARE THE SOLE OWNERS, after all she has been in this marriage for 22 years and you have been given your death sentence according to the sins you committed!

  57. its tricky’ 22 year in marrge’ and s/one is claiming they 12 year old child? both of u’ u played a part, in bringing that ka h i v. but u shud know that: the woman u luv wil never luv u. even women its a same thing. let her go

  58. I feel there is just amisunderstang taking place. Make the boy understand
    that it is wrong for him to out with your wife . Being in marrige for 22yrs is not ajoke . you know this woman well and she knows better.You ve made afamilly which the other guy is trying to break .Deal with the boyfriend.It wont be easy to divoce. your healthy will go down so fast because of your devorce

  59. HIV is all over the world. Dont worry, its not a death sentence. It just means you have to take care of yourself more. Never mind about the property, just explore ways to reunite your family. No DNA tests, child been yours for 12 yrs. Mend broken hearts and build love for the future. All will be ok. Pray to God above all.

  60. My advice is let her go and let her take what she wants you probally deserve better. She clearly dosent love you and no matter how much you push a dead horse it will not stand and move. Am sure your children are old enough to stay with dad alone.

  61. # 61 Arafat Patel???? which Zambian girls like indian men?? what do indian men know apart from samoosas and curry…Atase indians have no game and you know it!

    #71 – Very funny!

  62. There’s too many ‘anonymouses’ how do we tell them apart from each other? I know there’s the language bit and tone. But still that’s laborous. Could you please call yourselves something.

    If the story of the hiv + man and – wife is true. They should forgive each other and reconcile. I was going to suggest divorce. But then they both cheated – the only thing to do is to forgive each other. The wifey should not relax – the hiv could be in its window stage and it might just be a matter of time before it surfaces. You guys better learn to take care of each other- there’s the condom and feminidom.

  63. Bite the bullet my brother, and explode with it in a divorce suite, you going to heal……..As for your property, its just material, you aren’t going carry it to your grave. Worry about the kids! Not the property. As for your status, it shouldn’t rob you of your happiness, which you are clearly not getting from this woman or wife!

  64. Read the story and understand before you start analysing.Don’t just make useless comments and yes this story belongs on this very category….ubukopo!!!!

  65. IAM A WOMAN WHO IS MARRIED .I HAVE A SON WITH MY HUSBAND .THE PROBLEM I HAVE IN MY MARRIAGE IS THAT MY HUSBAND DOES ALL FINACIAL THINGS TO HIMSELF.I DONT KNOW WHEN HE GETS PAID AND HOW MUCH ,HE PAYS ALL THE BILLS BY HIMSELF .THE OTHER THING THAT HURTS THE MOST IS THAT HE MOVES WITH HIS ATM AND CHECK BOOKS ALL THE TIME EVEN WHEN HE IS HOME ,WHEN HE CHANGES CLOTHES EVEN THESE ITEM CHANGES ,TO ME I FEEL AS THOUGH HE DOESNT TRUST ME AND ITS VERY DISTURBING.AS IAM NOT WORKING I HAVE TO ASKED FOR EVERYTHING FROM HIM LIKE A LITTLE GIRL ASKING FOR THINGS FROM HER DAD ,WHAT CAN I DO IN THIS SITUATION?

  66. Bigge let her go. HIV has become cronic. U can actually live longer than a diebatic patient or someone with HBP & U know, with diebatis, U miss medication a day U are gone the following day or same day so O U need to do is take yr medication correctly, have that peace of mind,good diet etc. this woman is scared for her life 2 but will hurt you & take U to the grave 2 early. am positve – infected on the matrimonial bed & cant 4gv him even in death. he was a womaniser & never took advise. when he got sick he wanted me to die with him but i said NO! its you who brought this and you shall go 1st & alone. am alive full of life & live happily with my kids,without them i wud die & live 4 them.

  67. I am sure that explains that HIV cannot be transmitted to others thru sex. It can either be thru vaccinations or clinical medications. Your wife has got no T-cells hence she was carrying the virus in her Vajay-jay without her being infected. She must had sex with another man, then immediately you she slept with you. You cannot catch HIV thru sex if you dont have T-cells. Your also can never catch HIV unless its injected in her.

    If you have K6 Million Kwacha, the cure is there. You ll be cured. You know this HIV/AIDS thing is not a problem, it can cured. They are just withhelding the cure. Dont make a mistake of taking ARVs, they are more harmful than AIDS itself. May God Curse America.

  68. Guyz, guyz, hold yr horses here, have you thot abt why this gentleman has brot the issue here, its because he doesn’t want to divorce his wife. Apart from chase chase, Y-Y can’t we talk abt them sitting down and probing why she’s accused of cheating…. the bible says fornication/adutery is the principle for divorce but also states that the innocent mate can stay.

  69. ……..and how did you get the disease? from cheating am sure. you betrayed her, she has the right to leave.
    dont come for sympathy after its too late.

  70. Tsunami (104), please dont mislead people with your ignorance, there is no known cure for AIDS, ARVS are meant to prolong life for people who have been infected with the HIV virus and they have proved to be the only EFFECTIVE treatment for the disease. its ignorant people like you who are responsible for causing the death of thousands of people with your stupid advise.

  71. Sorry about your situation. seek for legal advice and take that child for a DNA test if found not your child let that thief pay you for the upkeep of that child. Infact if you plant a seed in someone’s field you should not claim it that is nosence

  72. Mr You must ask yourself why your wife is HIV -VE AND YOU HIV +VE. yOU WILL GET THE CORRECT ANSWERE TO YOUR TROUBLES.

  73. Troubled man, ask yourself why your wife is HIV -VE AND YOU ARE HIV +VE. You will get your answers. You started this trouble in this home in the first place. You did not CHOOSE WHERE YOU STUCK IT!

  74. MARIGOLD #108, please dont mislead people with your ignorance, there is a known cure for AIDS, ARVS are meant to kill people who have been infected with the HIV virus and they have proved to be destroying the bone mallow. its ignorant people like you and other clinicians who are responsible for causing the death of thousands of people with your stupid theories of ARVs. I am sure you dont understand the AIDS Genocide plot. I used to think like you sometime back. I have got a friend who was positive and is now negative.

    For your own info; Ministers, businessmen & other senior govt officials are beneficiaries of this cure.

    Its a pity you dont read and research on your own.

  75. Hey ba gentelemani, divorce this woman, move on and get a life if you can. But don’t spread the disease PLEASE! otherwise GOD will punish you.

  76. *102
    Marriage is a partnership togetherness no secrets
    If you want your marriage you must pray and ask for God to help.
    Pray for yourself that you have peace of mine while waiting on God to fix your marriage

  77. I would like to draw your attention to what is called discordant couples. That is where one partner is HIV+ and the other HIV- despite engaging in sexual relations with each other. (this is very common about two thirds of infected couples fall in this category.

    Some people are able to remain negative as long as they continue to be exposed to doses of the virus. (confirmed by tests on sexual workers in Majengo Kenya and parts of Zed).

    Being HIV+ doesn’t therefore predict who strayed first.

  78. I think the best thing is to kneel down and call upon the name of the LORD and he will show you the way.If you can not contain to live with your wife,then it can be better you just divorce rather than just harming your body.But speaking truthfully,i think it can be much better you just tell her to live you in peace cause there are so many green pastures in the bush…heance don”t think that maybe she is challenging you,but you are the one who is…….

  79. #117, Dr. Obama G., how long does the discordant couple remain negative whilst being exposed to this virus? Any extended period?

  80. # 119,Youtopia the longitudinal studies have shown some of these couples to maintain their status over several years some even exceeding a decade. However some of the subjects found that their status changed within months of stopping their trade as sex workers.(i.e. stopping exposure to the virus)

    It is on the above basis that Oxford University and University of Nairobi school of Medicine were developing an AIDS vaccine. The project was thrown into jeopardy when Oxford claimed full intellectual property rights as they funded the program, despite the fact that the researchers were from University of Nairobi.

  81. iwe mudala,ts typical of u Zambian men,taulefwaya ukuchita divorce pantu ulichilwele te?y stay ngabalakwafwa?

  82. #120, Dr. Obama G, Wow, interesting, so continous exposure made these subjects safe? but what is the actual physiological process of one not getting the virus even after being exposed for several years? what really goes on? (in very simple terms please).

  83. Stupid Americans gave Africans HIV/AIDS. Dont worry bro you wont die. Its just like flu. Exercise, have good meals/nutrition and no ARVs.

  84. Hey u guys do not think that everyone wth Hiv have been cheating..Some people are innocent it might be that he got it from the normal relationship before he got married.

    On other hand. This woman is not realistic, by cheating, she is killing the Man before his actual time. Bane kwaliba amalwele ayabipisha ukuciila pali Aids.. Tekenya Mayo. Musungufye Umulume obe as long as you take good precautions.

  85. Iwe..panga plan. Find a way to sleep with her so you can infect her with your disease then you can both die happily together…NAAATT!!hope you are not that dull to take this advice.
    Seriously, put your trust in the Lord and pray not to get back with her, but for God to give you the right path to take in this situation. It wont matter what the outcome will be, but as long as you keep in prayer, you cloudy days will clear and the sun will shine for you because the spirit of the lord will not take you where it wont protect you..keep that in mind

  86. #130, sorry am female, but friends can be friends even females. ‘plse don’t quote me wrong’ ” not friendship in ‘lesbian way’ “family friends more appropriate!

  87. i think what ever goes around always comes back around,please try to forget such poeple who wiil always try to bring you down and about the kid don”t even bother going for dna because a child is not like propert

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