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Saturday, September 26, 2020

The BRE demands acknowledgment of Barotseland Agreement of 1964

Headlines The BRE demands acknowledgment of Barotseland Agreement of 1964

Barotse Royal Establishment Induna Ingangwana talks to American Ambassador to Zambia Donald Booth

The Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) has made its submissions to the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) draft constitution, demanding the acknowledgment of some provisions in the Barotseland Agreement of 1964 in the new constitution.

BRE Senior Induna Ingangwana, who was flanked by Indunas Mukwakwa representing Senanga district, Ilubonda of Limulunga Royal Village and Induna Malenga representing Kaoma district, made the submissions to NCC Chairman, Chifumu Banda in Lusaka today.

In the submissions signed by the acting Ngambela, Litia Walubita, the BRE noted that the draft constitution did not consider the provisions of the Barotseland Agreement of 1964.

The BRE proposed in the submissions that Articles of the constitution which define Zambia as a unitary state should acknowledge the Barotseland Agreement to be the instrument by which the unitary state is constituted.

The BRE said Part II of the Draft Constitution 2010 was not inclusive and proposed that Articles 4 (2), (3) and (5) be recast.

It proposed that the text of Article 4 (2), which establishes Zambia as a unitary, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural democratic state, should be changed to reflect the origins of the unitary state.

The royal establishment also submitted that for clause three of Article 4 to make sense, it should be supported by the acknowledgment of Barotseland Agreement of 1964, which enforces the unitary and indivisibility of the state.

Clause three of Article four states that ‘the Republic of Zambia shall no be ceded, in whole or in part, to another country’.

“This clause (clause 3 of Article 4) is an unnecessary overkill in the protection of the indivisibility of the unitary state,” reads the BRE submission in part.

On Article 4(5), the BRE said the clause was targeted at the Barotseland, which according to the BRE, was the only region of Zambia that has a clear right to establish a regional government.

Clause 5 of this article says ‘The establishment of a new state within the territory of the Republic of Zambia is prohibited’.

“It should be emphasized that this right preceded the birth of the Republic of Zambia and is, therefore, not bestowed on Barotseland by Zambia,” the BRE submission reads further.

A unitary state is one that has politics relating to or based on a system of government in which authority is centralized.

The BRE further argued that Article 213 (1) of Part XII of the draft constitution is inadequate as far as legislation for provincial, districts and local authorities administration is concerned.

BRE said this aspect of government administration should be placed under the Litunga (King of the Lozi people) and the council as per Barotseland Agreement of 1964.

“Accordingly, for Western province (Barotseland), the power given by the Constitution to Parliament to legislate for administration of provinces, districts and local authorities should be made subject to the provisions of the Barotseland Agreement 1964 as enshrined under Clause 8 of the Barotseland Agreement 1964,” the submissions read in part.

Clause 8 of the Barotseland Agreement of 1964 states that “The Government of the Republic of Zambia shall take steps as may be necessary to ensure the laws for the time being in force in the Republic are not inconsistent with the provisions of this Agreement”.

The BRE is also condemning Article 290 (2) of Part XIX of the Draft Constitution, saying it has failed to include land vested in the Litunga within the definition of customary land.

The establishment therefore proposes that Clause II of Article 290, which defines customary land, should be amended by inserting land vested in the Litunga as part of the customary land.

“Under Article 293 (1), the powers of the President over minerals and petroleum should not be so sweeping as to override the existing powers of the Litunga over land in Barotseland,” say the BRE submissions to the NCC.

The BRE further suggested that this article should therefore be re-aligned with the provisions relating to the control of land in Barotseland.

“Arising from the foregoing, Clause 2 of this Article should be deleted from the Draft Constitution,” read the submissions.

And after receiving the submissions, NCC Chairperson, Chifumu Banda commended the BRE for its response to take part in the national task to come up with a new constitution.

Mr. Banda said the BRE has always been responsive to issues of national interest and importance.

“It gives me great pleasure to receive submissions from the BRE because you as the BRE are always involved in responding to the national duty,” he said.

He said it was very encouraging that many other royal establishments have commented on the draft constitution.

“You can not build a strong nation without a strong royal establishment,” he said.

The NCC launched the Draft Constitution on June 22nd, this year and provided 40 days for the public to make comments.

The period for making submissions was scheduled to end yesterday, August 1st, 2010 but the NCC has continued to receive submissions from members of the public and organisations because the day following the deadline is a public holiday in Zambia.

NCC Spokesperson, Mwangala Zaloumis said when asked about why the BRE submitted comments after the August 1st deadline, that this was because today, (Monday) is a public holiday.

She said over 1,000 submissions have been received by the NCC in the last 40 days.

But when asked whether NCC will stop receiving submissions tomorrow, Tuesday 3rd August, Mrs. Zaloumis did not give a categorical answer but said, “It will depend. We will see because the plenary sits on the 10th of August”.

The NCC was appointed in 2007 by the late President Levy Mwanawasa to review the Mung’omba Constitution Review Commission (CRC) draft constitution and come up with a new constitution before the 2011 general elections.

The NCC concluded its reviewing work in April this year and adjourned to allow the secretariat to prepare an initial draft constitution, which was launched for comments by the members of the public on June 22nd, 2010.

ZANIS

294 COMMENTS

  1. This is sick of BRE. You mean you guys couldn’t touch any topic concerning every one in zambia apart from those that touch you your selves alone? Why should you be so selfish? Zambia needs to be unified in order to achieve developmental goals. Are you saying we should have his royal highness the Litunga controlling the registration of all provinces in Zambia? Meaning that he will be given power to control all the remaining chiefs and chiefdoms we have in our country? You must be very selfish country men! In short, you want to indirectly be ruling Zambia!! Sad!!

  2. The Barotseland agreement remains one of the thorniest issues in our nation. Unfortunately, it will not just go away. We need to summon the courage to confront it.

  3. # 1 Nana you are right. These people cannot see a number of issues which have been manipulated in the daft constitution but they are busy talking of themselves. If that’s the case then no Lozi will ever become a president unless otherwise. We know that Lozi people are the only xenophobic people in Zambia. No tribe is above the other. ONE ZAMBIA ONE NATION

  4. I think the Barotseland Land Agreement will be acknowledged at about the same time the Gabon air crash report is released…in other words “when hell freezes over, and Zambians are ice skating”.

  5. Every province has the right to rule itself under a central government and not just BRE. Change provinces to States and let each state have its own governor. The Litunga should just be a ceremonial head of state like the Queen. All senior chiefs in each state should alternate to be ceremonial heads for a year or 2. The only problem to watch out is witchcraft

  6. The Barotseland Agreement was primised on error by the colonialists, hence the decision to do away wth it in 1964. It alleged that the Litunga controlled large parts of western and north-western Zambia plus the Copperbelt. Including parts of that error in the current Zambian contitution would be justifying a historical mistake, where the BRE royal family were even paid copper royalties from the mines!

  7. As if my words a week ago have come back to swallow me up. When Milupi was paraging himself in Luena & making noise, i said in the first place, he is selfish,egocentric & the english language knows what next. I also went ahead in saying that LOZI’s in particular are born selfish-someone wanted to curse me through cyberspace. Well, my father was Lozi. That put aside, there are lots of issues paramount to the well being of every citizen whether from W,S,C,CB,N,L,LSK,NW & the list can be finished but someone just chooses to dis integret or partition our lovely country at whose expense-Am sure, its not the british who emancipated us-its ourselves-all tribes inclusive. actually Lozi’s were busy obtaining education then & thats why they are the most educated fellas pa Zed. That does not show…

  8. Oh! my God these Lozis again, what agreement. Yes they can make Western province their nation as even no zambian would want to go there. The other provinces want a united zambia and not a divided one. These are the most tribalists in zambia who have an agenda of dividing the nation. As a nation we need to be pre-occupied with developing the nation and not dividing the way these lozis are doing. South Africa is one of the richest nations in Africa, and at the same time one of the fastest developing nations in the world, it has 10 or 11 tribes of which the major ones are Zulu, Sutu and Africaan. These tribes are not fighting for independence from South Africa because they have embraced diversity and accepted each other, and in such a way talent is easy to tap beacause each is special.

  9. Good Afternoon

    There was a time when Africa was controlled by the imperialist forces. It was in this time that the colonial masters designed and enforced laws that kept Africans divided and ensured that power remained in their hands. They knew very well that if Africans were organised and centralised, they (imperialists) would not have it easy to control them.

    Now that our people have united under the concept of One Zambia, One Nation, we should be working together towards the establishment of one government and not going backwards again. The BRE should get dozens of angry comments for being a threat to national unity with their outdated and ridiculous demands. If you multiply their attitude by 9 provinces, you would get a civil unrest as the answer. We don’t need no more trouble.

  10. There is a lot of ignorance and xenophobia being exhibited by comments above targeted towards the Lozi’s. Who is going to declare that no Lozi shall be president? When you say “they can have western province” do you know that that includes the whole of what you call the copperbelt?

    Like someone above said, this issue needs to be addressed with caution and not with ignorance and emotion.

  11. By the way, these comments are from the Barotse Royal Establishment and not the LOZI’s! Why is it so hard to comprehend simple text?

    What do you expect BRE to comment on?? Every stakeholder has an interest that may differ from anothers.

  12. It is so disappointing that some learned people, who should know and behave better, can still freely insult other people for voicing their genuine concerns!!! No. 4, plse look up the meaning of xenophobia before you continue dishing it out on anybody who voices up their genuine rights. Only someone who is ignorant about the history of Zambia (including the Barotseland Agreement) would make such erroneous statements over such factual comments by the BRE. The NCC itself knows about the deliberate silence it made over the issues raised by the Indunas. And such sweeping, insulting statements above will not help solve the matter at all. Some royal establishments of other tribes have also made comments concerning their establishments, those who havent done so, well and good, it means all is well

  13. Quote!! “”” You can not build a strong nation without a strong royal establishment”””

    I am ashamed to be Lozi. What kind of foolish people are these from Western Province? Lozis are the MOST TRIBLESLIST in this nation. This is what brings up division & CIVIL WAR in a nation. As Zambians, we have lived together since 1964. Thank GOD for KK for One Zambia & One Nation.

    GO TO HELL YOU LINTUGA’S & SHAME ON YOU……..
    If your intention is to make W/Province become a nation, it will be the POOREST NATION in this planet. There is not much productivity. As a former teacher & Lecture, I have had the chance to live in North, East, & Southern province. There is so much productivity in these provinces. You Lozis have to much silly pride and tribalism.

  14. According to human rights chatter, people should choose where they should belong and not the chief or individual person to choose for them. So those Indunas should not take people for a ride by choosing people’s destiny. I do not think that colonial idea and agreement had a blessing from the local people at that time, worse this time when many are educated and enlightened. Lesotso is an independent country in the middle of South Africa but has no economy, they depend on South Africa for everything, they cannot treat even their own water for drinking, their own national always flock to South Africa for survivor, then where was the need for seperation. They only have corruption where those who have money and are on top take advantage of others. This is all about selfishness at it’s…

  15. HIV. What is the basis of your assertion that Lozi’s are the most tribalist tribe?? Why are you so threatened?

    The Lozi’s are indeed a proud people, as they should be, because they have a very rich cultural heritage. What is wrong with that? Are they stopping other tribes from having their traditions? The Litunga carries himeslf with dignity and does not go around defiling under age girls.

  16. If you are ignorant about agreements then its better to shut up. There were three British protectorates in Africa- Swilaziland, Botswanaland and Barotseland. When an agreement is made, there is need to fulfill it. So if people have nothing to say it better to keep quiet other than yapping ignorantly. It has nothing to do with tribal. Hon Kong was ruled by Britain for 100 years as agreed and handed over in 1997. So lets call a spade a spade

  17. The 1964 Agreement should be looked into and discussed by the stakeholders involved i.e the Zambian Govt; BRE and the British Govt. If they reach a favourable agreement and all stakeholders are pleased, then so be it. But if the BRE is not pleased then let them seccede from the Rep. of Zambia and go on thier own. The govt. has not done much for them anyways in terms of development. It is the least developed province all because KK starved the province from development. They have a right and let them be heard!!

  18. I have lived in all the 9 provinces of our country, all the 8 provinces are accomodative apart from Western province which does not accept diversity and as such they are so poor. The richest provinces according to statistics are Copperbelt, Lusaka and Southern Province. These provinces have accepted diversity to a large externt that everyone is welcome regardless of tribe. They can speak their own languages but do not regard others as a threat to their language and culture as such they are busy with the help and talent of others. Someone said other royal establishments have spoken, yes they have but not for division like the BRE they have aired their opinion on development and inclusiveness, how they can see a developed zambia and not a divided one where you need a visa to visit others

  19. Elizabeth @14. I care less about your seeming femine reasoning. Brainwashed in the egocentric nururedness you may have grown up in. I dont blame you. Tell me which Chief from any other province is ranting like you INDUNA’s? I may want to remind you that, if the british erraneously granted you that kind of clause, a century ago, that was then, because even then -you people were selfish. (sometimes i wish i was not born Lozi). Look at how united zambians have become, even people from NW province can stand up to fight for SATA(mufumbwe elections). Thats being human. Human evolution comes with different views and understandings but there should always be oneness & togetherness. I would have loved to call you names in lozi, but i forgive you for your shortsightedness-hope you wond fall…

  20. What has Zambia come with these Lozi People? So now we’ll have a new MP
    Mr. Milupi that will galvanise Western Province to be a nation

    Well, I tried to marry one Lozi girl and the parents told me that traditionally, she was going to be The Head Off The House and came all sorts of rules from her family’s side. I dumped her and married another girl that is half Bemba & Ngoni.

    I have the best In-Laws in the world and my wife is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. That’s what we call a Blessing in Disguise. I also kind of like the “Chimbuya” or Cousinship between Bemba & people from Eastern Province.

  21. georgeWbush says:

    You are a chauvanistic embicile. Argue on facts and not just dribble. The basic premise of democracy is tolerance and inclusiveness. Allow people to air their views even if at the end of the day you have to agree to disagree. As for the government, they have a responsibility to get feedback from everywhere – Lozi’s included.

    You are ashamed to be Lozi because you have a weak character and poor understanding of your own history. That is your prerogative, and indeed, you should be ashamed to call your self Lozi.

  22. Chomba u are very dull and must sit down and read history. Where did the money to develop Lusaka, Copperbelt and Southern provinces come from at Independence? How much money was in the central government compared to Barotseland? Why was Wina made the first Finance Minister? Check you facts correct other than being tribal and showing us ur ignorance.

  23. Hiv! I doubt if u r lozi coz if u were u wud hav non the history of the BRE.SHAME! To al thoz who r sayn lozis r tribalist yes we r coz we dnt lik bin intimidate,takn wht blongs 2 us. If we r rspectd in london thn whoz zambia a poorest country nt 2. Mind

    :((

  24. United Zambia (and all Lozis are for unity, no matter who states otherwise), does not necessarily robbing
    others of their right of expression on their concerns. All those who feel God made a mistake for creating them Lozi, they are free to renounce it, in the same way one renounces and acquires citizenship. I refuse to insult anyone back!!!!! It is a dividing, not a unifying factor!!! We should learn to air our differences without resorting to foul language.

  25. Oh! that is why you wear those scotish imitated clothes because you feel you are still British, shame on you. #419 you can fufil it with the British and not Zambians, zambians believe in a united zambia and not a divided one. People of North-western province at this moment in time speak of development and not divisions of the Lozis. When Lesotho seperated itself from South Africa as a British protactorate, those selfish ones left to make their own country but those well meaning ones with a mind of development remained as part of South Africa. All those who all the time talk of seperation from others are so poor, Kapirive wanted to seperate from Namibia and the place is the poorest in Namibia because they are pre-occupied with divisions and not development.

  26. It is not in the national interest for Barotse to secede because of the economic implications for Zambia as a whole. Understand – and if you can access any land registry records pre 1964 – that the mines were in barotseland.

    It is equally not acceptable that Western province should be deprived of development because of the paranoia of a small group of narrow minded individuals.

    A compromise must be reached diplomatically in the national interest. Grown ups sit down and talk, they dont start shouting “Lozis this, and Lozi’s that”. Take time to digest before you comment and cause divisiveness.

  27. Is it true that the diamonds rumour in western province is actualy true.the Litunga wants to start mining when the BRE agrrement is incoporated in the constitution?Well the litunga shud just bribe the NCC after Zedians are dull and wund`nt care less.They is also rumour that the Litunga knows which places have oil.Poor Zedians.Change your sirnames to Lozi ones or else you will miss the next saudi arabai in africa.Selfish as it may sounds,it still don`nt stop one from asking such questions.why are they interested in only one aspect of the constitution when a tonne of issues remain unaddressed.Selfish Lozi`s, u will never get development in the sandy western part odf this country until this agreement is recognised.Too bad zedians the secret is with the litunga and he aint sharing the booty.

  28. FireStarter, I regarded u as a reasonable person little did I know that u are a non human and dull. Can please stop telling lies and please let us not being tribal. We know that Bembas are nothing but tribal and they do this by calling others as such. Thieves are always like that. I wish u came out in the open and tell us why u failed to marry the lozi women. We know u and we dont want to name u here. God is seeing u and so learnt to be truthful otherwise we will inform everyone here who u are and how u do things.

  29. Zedland is one country and those who seek to divide it for the sake of boosting their egos have no room in it. Cause that’s what this whole BRE submission is all about.
    I doubt many Lozi’s would ever think of seceding from the motherland but then we know that vocal minorities always tend to rule over majorities and the BRE is a vocal minority.
    Just as the BRE gave away lands to the British that they did not control, KK outmanouvered them and made them impotent in the country called Zedland.
    Where would one stop if they had to insist that all historical injustices should be corrected? That the Ngoni should go back to RSA, that the Bemba should go to Congo or wherever. I f all this was done, what language would the Lozi’s speak – other than the Sotho brought by the Kololo.
    Get real!

  30. #419 it’s you who wants to spice your own agenders and not facing reality as it stands. Money to develop these areas came from the Copperbelt(Lambaland),people who believe in diversity and not western province. How can money come from western province when it has been poor from time imemorial, how can you sweep someone’s house when yours is in a big mess. Now let me tell you the truth, Copperbelt developed because of minerals, Lusaka developed because it is the administrative city and many business activities and these business houses pay huge amounts of tax. Southern developed because of Agriculture, livestock, tourism. The sugar indusry also contrubutes a lot to the province. Mind you all the cane cutters come from western province meaning you benefit a lot also as a united…

  31. Get real? You say? bring development to the region and respect the 1964 agreement. The other tribes/peoples did not make such agreements. A deal is a deal and it should be honoured. The BRE should continue to push for what they believe is owed to them!!

  32. 20 Chomba, ” I have lived in all the 9 provinces of our country, all the 8 provinces are accomodative apart from Western province which does not accept diversity”

    I think you have made the strongest argument against increasing regional identity so far.

    On one level, it makes sense to have (cross-national) provinces that reflect traditional authorities – culture, language, selfrule, etc. On the other hand, what happens to people who do not belong to the majority group in those regions?

    It would make more sense to have autonomous provinces that coincide with traditional authorities instead of the present colonial era countries. At the same time, you can’t divorce it from the people promoting it, and if it increases intolerance, that would be unacceptable.

  33. If you look at the MDC, they want to create a separate Matabeleland province. In the DRC, neocolonial powers want to see the breakup (balkanisastion) of the DRC into lots of easily manipulated countries.

    The present borders were created by colonial authorities, but for some reason, these same powers have now taken up the cause of breaking up Africa’s existing countries.

    I welcome all comments on this issue.

  34. [email protected] – ask the Lamba’s of the Copperbelt if they were ever ruled by the Litunga. In fact, ask them if they were ever conquered by the Lozi. They will tell you they never heard of the Lozi except from the British who told them they had been given this land (Lambaland) by the Litunga.
    Can you give your neighbours plot to a stranger to stop him from grabbing yours? This is one of the injustices that would have to be corrected where we to start correcting colonial injustices.
    If the Portugese had not already taken Mozambique, I bet you the Litunga would have given the British land all the way to the Indian Ocean.

  35. They say people who are full of failure have a culture of blaming others, you cannot say all those poor provinces are in that state because the government neglects them no. Luapula is poor but they do not talk of division because they do not have a culture of division. The reason behind western province’s poverty is bureacracy from the same BRE, and falure by their educated and rich people to go to the land and invest. Every rich and educated Lozi does not want to go to his land for fear of witch craft. They just go there when they join politics and need people’s votes to enrich themselves. I had a Lozi boss who left western province when he was 18 and he says he will never step a foot there not even his children because they may bewitch them.

  36. #419 you just want to satisfy you ego, be real with issues. You say the money to develop Copperbelt, Lusaka and Southern province came from western province, I do not blame you but where you come from where division is part of life. Copperbelt(Lambaland) developed because of minerals and the people’s culture of being accommodative hence tapping talent through diversity, Lusaka developed because it’s the administrative city and business houses pay a lot of tax to boast the city. Southern is developed because of Agriculture, livestock, tourism. The sugar company contributes a lot to the economy and it is the whole country which benefits. All cane cutters come from western province as a result you benefit a lot also as a province in terms of wages. Wake up one zambia one nationwe…

  37. Oh my Zambia!! I can imagine if this BRE demand is fulfilled, am I going to draw the map of the remaining Zambia properly? Certainly,I will be crying and this will create xenophobia to well meaning Lozi’s who have established themselves in other provinces and have property worth in millions.

  38. Ha ha ha too many jokers on this site.The pro lozi and anti-lozi theorists at work.Get a life bamukuta no Zambian tribe is better or worse .It is one zambia one nation.

  39. Actually, what Lozis were doing was illegal, you cannot be receiving mineral loyaties on minerals whish are not yours. It is like receiving rental charges on a house or building which is not yours. The people who were entitled for those mineral loyalties were suppose to be Lamba chiefs. If Lozis open that it will be a parndora box. What they were doing was illegal and we have the right to apply the law to get that money from these thieves, thats why they call others thieves because they were the first ones to steal in the colonial era.

  40. 419 @ #31
    This is freedom of speech. Do not to intimidate people. Why has it hit you so hard to your heart?
    I guess the truth always hurts. Are you a WebMaster of this blog, then you need to look at Data Protection Laws. Of course you can perform IP Filtration but there is also what we call Dummy IF Forwarding. In other ways, I can post an article from an invalid IP Address & Name Resolution. One can sit in a different destination while pointing to a different host location. If not happy with the comments, do don’t populate them on the portal. Hence, try and modulate the broadcast… Sorry you can go to hell with Intimidations. This has nothing to do with GOD… This shows that you do not really understand GOD. Give the name GOD the Honour it deserves.

  41. 419 ### says:

    How dare you talk about Mr Wina to have been made the First Finance Minister?
    Let me remind. He WAS and is STILL a Drug Dealer (MR. MANDRAX).
    Kenneth Kaunda spared Wina for political reasons. He should have lockedthat ***** for life. Wina & Mwanga contaminated Zambian streets with Mandrax in the Eighties & early Nineties

    The Wina’s were my Neighbours in Lilayi. They are a shameful family. The Wife was locked up by Chiluba and lied that she was PREGANT while in prison and ended up having a miscarriage (which was a total fabrication) And this is a person that you call Princess Nakatindi. Sorry it’s (Princes Drug Queen )

    The Indunas are too dull that is why they have been manipulated all these years.
    Have they just waken up now. You all need to move on…

  42. The problems in zambia are that certain tribes have no rich history like the lozis, when lozis start demanding for there rights many feel shaken and use unpalatable language. The lozis want certain articles in the NCC draft constitution to observe certain rights of the litunga and his people to be included, so this the fact that every boby must look at seriously. If other provinces (tribes) have there own history let them claim what is theirs. Like Northen province (Bemba) if they had an agreement with De Lacedar, Portugise trader let them do so it is there right. If the Ngoni’s had an agreement with Shaka when they crossed Zumbo in 1835 let them produce their paper. Leave the Lozi’s alone they have the right claim Viva BRE.

  43. Chomba you are a rabid tribalist. You are the first to accuse others of tribalism but this is a strategy to hide your own backwardness. Chomba have you ever asked yourself why the provinces you claim to be the richest happen to be so. Ever heard of the line of rail and how both the colonial govt and the post colonial govts concentrated economic activities in these areas because of their accessebility to both rail and road transport? Stop foaming at your stinking mouth and address yourself to the issues raised by the BRE. You dont score points by railing at an entire ethnic group. It just shows how tribally inclined you are. And please stop the BS about South Africans. You know nada about South Africa. Isnt it in SA that chieftainships have rights to their minerals in their chiefdoms?

  44. What applies to others should apply to all to attain equality. If you want it that way then Lamba chiefs should be paid mineral loyalties for mining their land, North-western Chiefs e.g Kaonde chiefs also should be paid. Lenje and Sala chiefs should start receiving taxes for finishing their ancestral land to develop Lusaka city. Northern Chiefs should be paid for the use of Mpulungu habour tax revenues, Tonga chies should be paid for use of their land in Sugar plantations and Toka-leya chiefs should be paid for the use of the victoria falls in tourism as their ancestral heritage and many more I have not mentioned. If the Litunga is stopping mining Diamonds in western province. When people tolerate you then you ragard them as fulls, what kind of people are you Lozis who cannot appreciate

  45. ##FireStarter says:
    This is why I was saying u are very dull and not in ur normal senses. Be reminded that at independence, Zambia had no money, money was with the Barotse. KK made wina minster of finance to be able to transfer money from the Barotse bank/government to the central government. I wanted to find out why wina was appointed minister of finance? Now I prove that you are really behind in thinking. I must say u are a let down to ur family and to Zambia. I thought u are upright in mind alas, u are equivalent to moving hole brain. I will not wish u hell because only God is the judge. If u wish u can ask God why he created lozis. Only God knows everyone and no one has right over the other. Why be scared of God?

  46. For ur own information the British are still paying loyalty to the Barotseland. Which chief can be campared to the Lozi chiefs. Just call a spade a spade. Ours is not a chief but a king.

  47. It was the late Arthur Wina who was Finance Minister and not Sikota his young brother whom you are referring to.

  48. You can scon me but you Lozis learn to live with others by accepting diversity. Other tribes bring a lot of talent and ideas which you can make use of tomorrow the way others have accommodated you in their societies. Eastern province has developed because of agriculture and not minerals why can you make use of the Zambezi to boast the rice production in the province which can be of use to others as well. Have a mind of development and not divisions. One zambia one nation, we all depend on each other as a nation, whatever comes from each province comes in the treasury for everyone to benefit regardless of tribe. Other provinces contribute a lot to the treasury but they do not claim anything in return because they know we need each other’s efforts to develop the nation.

  49. Aisha Mwene, u are very right. Some chiefs just started during chiluba’s time. If u ve no history dont blame anyone. Chomba is very behind in thinking. This is because some people think using muscles other than brains. As elderly as u are sure u think like u are at primary school. Its a shame. Am out of here.

  50. THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS NONSENSICAL. WHY WASTE YOUR ENERGIES ARGUING . DONT YOU HAVE SOMETHING BETTER TO DO? LEAVE THOSE SELFISH INDUNAS ALONE. TUFYA!!!

  51. #46 Of course the Lambas should have a cut from the mineral royalties paid to the central govt. This is the practice the world over be it in New Zealand and the Maori, Australia ,Canada, Brazil, US etc. Even Nigerians have started giving a 10% cut of the petroleum resources to the Nigerian states in which oil is produced. By the way we need decentralisation in Zambia or a Federal system. What we have is an imperial nepotistic presidential system in which the winner assumes the right to dish out favours and resources to his choosen ethnic pals. We should have elected provincial administrations to preside over land, education, health etc. It is not tribalism to advocate for decentralisation. Why are you so afraid of empowering regions. It is the practice world over.

  52. # 48. Stop satisfying your ego. Western province had no Bank at that time, even now other banks decline to go there. Which money was in the banks in western province oh! my goodness what a lie from this Lozi fellow. Wina became a finance minister because Kaunda wanted inclusiveness period.

  53. If they were paying royalties you were not going to be living in such a state, we are aware of these things and on the ground. The only thing I know they are still giving you is that colonial guard police uniform the Litunga wears during Kuomboka. Other chiefs of zambia are so proud and want to wear what is produced in zambia because they were not colonised to the born marrow.

  54. # 54 it is not surprising that u know nothing. U think a bank is a building hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha well dull Zambians exist nevertheless.

  55. I for one donot have much respect for people who think that they are more special than others; people must learn not to think that they are more apeople than others. there is no special chief in Zambia, no matter what ever name he chooses to call himself, either a king or a chief ,because you are identified by your own tribe that is all, therefore there is no reason to think you are better than any other tribe

  56. If u think Satana will be president, u will be shocked. He has no education. We dont want uneducated fella anymore. Bembas have stolen enough already let reasonable people develop Zambia

  57. 419##

    That says it all and it concludes the perception from most guys’ on the blog.
    You keep using the word GOD for the wrong reason. You a bitter, Sad & frustrated person. I can see that it’s eating you heart & mind. Move on mate… We are all One Nation. This dream will not come to pass

    GOD DID NOT MAKE “LOZIS”…… GOD MADE MAN. CAN YOU GET THIS TO YOUR EMPTY HEAD?

    GENESIS 1:26
    26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

  58. Chomba 46 #

    You are the MAN. That is a very good Analysis & Observations you have posted on # 46

    We all cannot start saying that this ours and this is yours, therefore pay me the money.
    If that is the case then Lamba’s will be the biggest winners, from the Copperbelt.

    It does not make any logic at all… We are all Zambians. If anyone does not like – It’s
    just tough. No Induna will get a penny….

  59. My dear we are to be judged individually not as a mass. Each was created in God’s image and each has a responsibility of worshiping God. So your hate for Lozis is eating u up and u think we cannot read ur dust and watery brain that u have destroyed after it was well made. Stay blessed my dear. We are all Zambians and lets live as such. u have not really changed my friend. Change u attitude and read through the lines before u establish ur hate for the innocent people of God.

  60. Firestarter why shouldnt the Copperbelyt province get a cut from the taxes that are been generated in the province. You are too much of a dimwit to understand the concept od decentralisation. A percentage of resource taxes is always paid from the locality or region from which it is being extracted. Get that ugly head of yours from your backside and understand what the BRE is talking about. It is not selfishness that they are advancing after all you are the same people who are saying there is nothing in Barotseland. All what the BRE is saying that they want a say in the way land is being allocated to the so called investors. Why should this power be vested in Lusaka and and not local communities. CB is producing the wealth but LSK is getting everything. Why?

  61. Govt of Rep of Zed must pay back to ‘barotse bank’ the debt 78million British pounds which went to BOZ through GRZ? This money must be used to develop the province. The Lozis just need development using the money the government got. Is this not right people?

  62. 419 @ 62#

    Yes ! We all Zambians and that is what we have been trying to pump into your head. The feeling is not pouring hate on Lozi People. But rather, the argument is the theories that the Indunas have raised.
    It’s also people like you that use GOD for wrong reason and JUDGE others. Certainly, each of us was made in the image GOD. So the question you raised to ask GOD as to why he created Lozi is a very a brainless, impractical & thing to say. You allowed emotions to think for you and not your intelligence. There is nothing wrong in getting emotional & angry. But it’s how you use that state of mind. Good luck to your pursue of the Barotseland Fund Reserve. However, it will not HAPPEN. That is just a SIMPLE FACT

  63. Princess you have a point. If Zambia could make use of people like u, we would move a step ahead of USA. We need sound minded people and not yappers of this blog.

  64. The Lozi people of Barotseland had prevented access to their land by Arab and Portuguese traders. When the kingdom was first established is uncertain, but it was certainly in existence by the 18th century, the Lozi calling themselves Aluya and their country Ngulu.

    the loziz there are so selfish

  65. I am sure that at the time of Independence Zambians in various chiefdoms had rulers whole ruled them and they also had areas of their own just like the Lozi brothers & sisters. We have all benefited from a unitay state that was created then at the expense of all regional groupings. For our some of our Lozi brothers and perhaps sisters( Iam aware of at least one Lozi brother agitating for this) to start this story it is definetely a recipe for disaster. Some of us got wind of what was going undergroud a long time ago, this is not just about a close in the constitution it is much more than that. It should be dismissed with the contept it deserves. We have all (Zedians) contributed to this marriage and it is too late to look back period.

  66. Lozis should stop thinking that they’re the cleverest people in Zambia.Actually the Litunga is the one that sold Zambia to the British,by taking after King of Bechunaland.He’s so fun………..how could he possibly think that North western an copperbelt provinces belonged to him?Does or did anyone there speak Lozi?And yet he went ahead and dished out land in those regions………and started receiving mineral royalties.Mwata Kazembe refused to work with the colonisers but the Litunga,being a coward, welcomed them in exchange for protection and 800 pound sterling in royalties.
    Well,the Litunga may be a King or chief……..but the truth of the matter is that whoever he is,he is a leader of the Lozi tribe,period!
    Most Zambians are educated now and the Lozis cant fool anybody anymore!!!

  67. 419
    My history is not that good.I have a question.Where did the ‘Barotse Bank’ get the 78 million pounds?

  68. Princess (((( 63 ))))

    You are another frustrated pesron. Sorry, whether you like it or not. It will not happen. If you are Lozi then just move on…. Nothing personal. I am Lozi and I know the History. However, it will bring so much division and us Lozi will end loosing big time. Over what?. Unlike other places, Our rich lozi guys do not want to invest in our Forefathers Land. They would all just prefer to stay in big cities.

    Eastern Province is an example. A lot of people from the East go back and invest in their area.
    Chipata is becoming a much modern town every day – so is farming in the East is booming.

    I guess charity begins at home…. Let all start investing in the West…. Sorry not trying to start a fight here….

  69. NO ONE HAS STOPPED THESE BAROTSELAND FOOLS TO FORM THEIR OWN COUNTRY. WHAT THEY SHOULD KNOW IS THAT IT WILL BE VERY POOR. THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY STUCK IN THE PAST.
    I FOR ONE IS SICK OF THIS CRAP. WE ARE THE THIRD GENERATION SINCE INDEPENDENCE AND YET PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING ON ABOUT THAT STUPID AGREEMENT WHICH NO LOCAL ZAMBIANS WANT. GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON ALREADY. SHEESH!

    P.S I LIVE IN PRESENT ZAMBIA NOT HISTORICAL ZAMBIA , ITS VERY ANNOYING TO FIND TWENTY YEAR OLDS FIGHT FOR SOME STUPID AGREEMENT THAT WILL NOT MAKE THEM ANY BETTER OF.

    FOCUS ON DEVELOPING ZAMBIA FIRST. THERE ARE DECENT LOZI PEOPLE WHO ARE WELL INTEGRATED AND ESTABLISHED IN OTHER PROVINCES THEY DO NOT HAVE SUCH SELFISH MINDSETS.

    MOVE ON!!

  70. The problem I have with the Barotse Agreement is that a number of their claims are premised on falsehoods. One of the biggest and potentially most dangerous is that the Copperbelt and all its wealth belong to Barotseland. Because of this falsehood, before independence, all mineral royalties benefitted Barotse Royal Establishment and not the Lamba chiefs in whose land the wealth was sourced. This is money (about 80 million pounds) somebody was claiming Zambia stole from Barotseland at the time of our independence in 1964! Actually this is the money the Royal Establishment illegally obtained from Lambaland.

  71. That is a good question Sharp Shooter. The British had three protectorates- now Botswana, Swaziland and Barotse land now Western province. These were not colonialised by the British. Each protectorate was receiving money from the British government the way the Barotse loyal Establishment does to date. When the whole Zambia wanted independence, the British asked Unip to negotiate with Barotse land as it was not a colonial territory so that there was unified country on independence. So after independence, the Barotse land had 78 million pounds in the Barotse bank. KK negotiated for the money and made Wina the Minister of Finance. Wina transported the money in trucks in two land Rovers to Lusaka central Government in BOZ. Surprising the money was used to develop other provinces except W.P

  72. Lozis have a rich history……..my foot!What history are u talking about.Why cant we find that history in today’s history books?All Zambian tribes have rich histories.The fact that u wear scotish-like skirts and had access to european schools ealier than other tribes doesnt make u any special.Most tribes just didnt want links with the British because they’re self reliant.The lozis were poor and cowards,that’s why they sought British protection.My grandfather,actually refused to receive a european education………he used to say that it didnt mean shit to him.He thought he had a suffiecient African education to sustain himself.He’s a great hunter!!!
    Only those that wanted to be colonised embraced a european education……..and the Lozis ran for it.Western province’ll remain poor!!

    • You are extremely stupid, the language you are using is european western. so is the technology and software you moron. Ok, but jealous down. Lozis rule!!!!

  73. there are only two types people mad ones like 419 and normal ones like MJ,nana,MWABA.make it rain,FireStarter,sharp shooter etc…so for normal ones to stay normal they ignore mad ones full stop

  74. Please leave BRE alone, it is their right to restore that which was in the agreement. Remember the agreement was part of the conditions which were set to allow Zambia and Baroste Land come as one state.The problem we have is that Lozis are educated and as such that which belongs to them no one should take it from them by crooked manner.

  75. Its good that we know that people in Zambia are not united. For people to name call lozis am not surprised. Viva Westen, North Western and Southern. Our bond will never end. lets remain unityed against the thieves. Call me names but the truth will remain.

  76. #77 Walyako
    Here comes a Bemba. They know nothing only stealing and insulting. KMB fellas. We know u guys and dont think we are dull like u my dear. We know education very well and we will get what we are owed soon

  77. THE IDEA THAT LOZIS ARE EDUCATED WAS TRUE 46 YEARS AGO.

    EVERYONE IS EDUCATED NOW. MY MOTHER AND FATHER WERE EDUCATED, I AM DOING MY SECOND DEGREE AND IM NOT LOZI.

    I HEARD ANOTHER FOOL CLAIM THAT THE LOZIS ARE THE MOST EDUCATED IN ZAMBIA. WHAT LIES.

    PEOPLE SERIOUSLY NEED TO MOVE ON.

    LOL WALYAKO I LIKE YOUR INSULT LOL. MAYO! HAHAHA

  78. After 24 years as a unitary state, where is Zambia today? We are actually worse off than when we started in 1964 which is a clear tastement that this centralised system has miserably failed. The Barotse agreement is not about ceding from Zambia, its about devolution of power to the provinces and all provinces in Zambia need this. If Chipata wants an endlessly garavanting president, Luapula a stinking thieving one, Southern a tribally bigoted one and Northern a red eyed nwacusa to rule them, so be it. Just don’t let these fools spoil it for all of us. Zambia needs devolution, not centralisation which has clearly failed.

  79. @ 81
    YOU ARE A SERIOUSLY DEMENTED. GO BACK AND INTERACT WITH SOCIETY INSTEAD OF COMING UP WITH LOONY IDEOLOGIES.

    NO ONE HAS STOPPED YOU FROM FORMING YOUR OWN COUNTRY. AS SOMEONE ALREADY MENTIONED. SWAZILAND AND LESOTHO SEGREGATED THEMSELVES FROM SOUTH AFRICA. THEY ARE VERY POOR COUNTRIES.

    SOME OF YOU PEOPLE SHOCK ME. EVEN AFTER TRAVELLING AND SEEING THE WORLD YOU STILL HAVE PATHETIC IDEALS IN YOUR HEADS. A SIGN THAT EDUCATION ISN’T EVERYTHING.

  80. It is important to put everything in perspective. The barotseland agreement is the only legal instrument that unifies zambia therefore it must be either affirmed or revoked by the constitution. any issues within it should be addressed honestly and without bias. It is not about lozi’s but about the law, what it is today and what it should be. The BRE has shown alot of courage by tabling this issue in front of the government(peacefully I must say!). These problems created by the kaundas and worsened by the chilubas and satas cannot be run away from but the must be confronted. Mulena u buluke sichaba sa hesu!!!!

  81. i think that lozi boy has to go if his people are as pathetic as the lozis on this blog. who obviously judge people without knowing them. ba @83. you you are an ignorant royal fooool! unless you were there when that pathetic document was signed Butt out.

  82. @ 84 ( MWABA), u are sick. are telling us that u dont believe that ur parents are the real parents u ve unless u were there when they were making love. think before u write anything here. we are not kids ok

  83. The problem’s that Lozis are educated…….very funny!!Who isnt educated now??Stop lying to yourselves……..Lozis are no longer the most educated people in Zambia anymore.That was true some 46 years ago………and simply because they’re so insecure that they had to bootlick the British for protection.Lozis are a proud people…….my foot!Mwata Kazembe’s proud……..he pissed on the whites and refused to enter into any agreements with them.That’s what we call pride and bravely.
    I have learnt together with alot of Lozis and there’s nothing extraordinary about them.Some are smart and some are empty……….its all about statistics and not tribe or colour.Leave the 19th centuary,people and welcome to the 21st centuary!!!
    One Zambia one Nation!Viva KK…he dribbled u!!!!

  84. Honestly,I would be worried if North-Western Province wanted to separate from Zed.They have the new mines,oil and gas being explored,too.Not kwa aye………..what do u have there??Sand.Leave Zed if u want and u will see for yourselves where u will end up.
    The mines developed Zed and some mythical 78 million pounds from a mythical Barotse bank.The Lambas didnt get much from the mines.And part of the money from the mines was actually invested in education,from which many Lozis benefited and now instead of saying thank u to Zed,they’re saying “we want to separate because we are the most educated and we understand law better all of u put together”.
    That agreement belongs to the trash bin.Lets just unite and develop mother Zed…….no hard feelings!!

  85. # 78

    Am not Bemba its just that its easy to understand an insult in Bemba am from the great south TONGA LAND MY DEAR. You should know that Tongas are very important people everything that starts with Ha or Her comes from Tonga land Hungarian sausage, Humburger hakapenta two by two these thing were discovered in Tongaland Zambia. we are very happy people and for your own information I have a masters in HRM from one of the best Universities in EU.So my friend do not fight for nothing. Zambian leaders will never change, just fools who do not care about the real Zambians good day My friend all the best in Life

  86. :-w:-w:-w:-w:-w Alabee will not accept any change he already said that he is stubbon. One thing which we must all enjoy as Zambian is a saying from the great KK. One Zambia baphicolor!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and we shouted back one nation.
    The a song followed tiyende pamodzi ndi mutima umo tiyende pamodzi ndimutima umo Kaunada tiye tili pamodzi ndimutima umo. This was ment for us to unite baficolorand dividing zambezi land. Good night.

  87. NKOLE WA MAPEMBWE UMFWE MILANDU – the correct sentence is Nkole ‘Wamapemba’ umfwe milandu! Now let me read all other postings b4 I comment further.

  88. Yaba! I swear if you some of you bloggers met in the bar, you would have killed each other. My ribs are aching with laughter at least today its not the Bembas in the spotlight. However its good to know how proud people are of where they come from. Just dont insult others in doing so.

  89. #12, “Western Province includes Copperbelt”, in your dreams. We all know how the Litunga was used by the British to obtain mineral rights in exchange for ‘protection’ through the use of ‘fa’ or is it far? I have always said that instead of the government ‘restoring’ the Barotse Agreement, it should instead give whatever was provided for in that agreement to the LAMBAS. They are the rightful owners of the ‘copperbelt minerals’. Infact, the BRE owe the Lamba chiefs, period.

  90. #82 Mwaba, I can understand your fear. I mean from your name one can tell you hail from the Luapulan caucases and given what you have for comparables as countries, you have every reason to fear having autonomy to run your own affairs. I mean, who wouldn’t when what you have for comparables are the thieving Katangas and genocidal Burundi/Rwandas of this world? This site is about genuine intellectual debate and not snob mindsets hinged on foul bigotry. Don’t come here to seek confimation for your st’u’pi’d bigotry against a document and people you hardly know anything about. Ka Mwaba, is it the foul smll from the toilets you’re cleaning that’s getting to your head? And if the Brits were so bad, what are you doing in the UK? Maybe they also need xenophobia to sort you out.

  91. As the old adage goes, patriotism is the last refuge for the scoundrel. You bet the people who are here shouting down the agreement claiming it will break up the country are the least patriotic. Their reason for retaining a clearly disfunctional status quo is not because they are patriotic but its all because it saves their pockets well. I mean, for any shallow minded soul like Mwaba, he will struggle to end up in the UK if there was a level playing field in Zambia today.

  92. Boy you got screwed in Barotseland##
    Kaunda parents came way from Malawi. Found you and dribbled you. The Old man only went as far as Standard 2, which was Form2 or Grade 11 of that time. How come all the educated Lozi were fooled.
    Kaunda was the one that went negotiating for Zambia, after realising that Harry Nkumbula spent most of the time in London being manipulated with Wine and was given White chicks to sleep with. When KK saw that as a Deputy ANC Leader, he branched off and formed UNIP. That is what I call an Educated Man. Not just having Papers and Boasting for nothing. Besides, today tribes have educated people. Statistics have changed.

  93. If the BRE is granted this request…. then The Tonga Bulls as the first inhabitants of the land, respectfully request to take their lands too, we will take southern Province and name in “Tongambia” we already had president mazoka and HH is next…. say what u want, but only poor northerners exploit the hard workers of the country, no more northern presidents.

  94. #95 How can you say that the Tonga Bulls will demand the land? It is not a question of demanding ..go back to your history after all the bulls fell under BRE also….

  95. Bembas are good for: “Chiluba’s wife Regina was arrested on September 3 for allegedly receiving money and property stolen by Chiluba during his time in office, despite having previously been released after the case against her had been dropped on August 24. Chiluba and his wife protested the arrest.

    In May 2008, the government announced that it had recovered nearly 60 million dollars in money and assets allegedly stolen during Chiluba’s presidency.

    Having long suffered from health problems, Mwanawasa died later in 2008. Chiluba was acquitted on all charges on 17 August 2009.”

  96. Lozi people are the most tribalistic people I have met. I worked in Kalabo with UNFPA and I am Bemba from Kasama, but time and again I was called a thief and when ever I cheated that I was Sikota, to my surprise they embraced me well. They called me all sorts of names because I was Bemba while I was developing their land working with communties in Sikongo, Luena and Litapo. These guys are tribalists, they need to wisen up and think in the best interest of the nation. I will never work in the Western Province, they are very un civilised and poor with too much mushabati.

  97. That that’s good sawce for a goose, is good for a gander. If in the eyes of some here the agreement cannot be implimented because the British motives of creating it were less honourable, then it must also be the case that this failed and lousy patchwork of a nation called Zambia created by the same Brits, following natural resource lines, is also not sustainable. No wonder the PACT is failing because asking Sata and HH to work together is like expecting Obama to embrace Osama, impossible. I struggle to find commonalities between Tongas and Bembas beyond being Africans.

  98. The BRE are just selfish and greedy. People who are NOT from Western Province know the true history of that part of Zambia. Western Zambia did not start with the arrival of the Kololo(aka Lozis). The Kololo found existing tribes when the arrived from what is now known as Western Provinces. Among these old tribes were the Nkoya people and others. So this fact only prevents the present Gov’t from ‘honoring’ something that was obtained from lies and half truths. All the representives that claim to represent Western Province in this submission are only representing one tribe and one agenda, to further transfer wealth of Western Zambia to a tiny greedy minority among the political gathering calling it self the ‘BRE’. It can be seen that Nkoya interests are not included.

  99. The best way to deal with the Barotse agreement is to give it an ostrich posture, never mind its ok for such problems. The more we discuss it the more the Lituga relishes how he owns the copperbelt and lamba people.

  100. The Litungaship is full of greed and tribalism. The British committed a crime by signing agreements with people who own nothing. Tribes like the Nkoya people of Kaoma and other districts in and out of Western Zambia will never support an idea of awarding one tribe, one traditional leader more authority and wealth than other tribes. That is why Nkoyas in Western Province have been demanding the creation of a 10th Province called Kafue Province so that the BRE’s dreams can be buried forever. Before the arrival of the Kololo, the Nkoyas were already in Western Zambia. Even before the arrival of the British in Western Zambia, the Nkoyas had established Kingdoms dating many centuries so why should ‘new’ arrivals in name of Kololos aka Lozis been given special rights at the expense of others?

  101. There is a tiny group of BRE fanatics who think that Zambians are damm enough to honor an agreement the obtained through fraud, lies, murder and crimes against humanity. All royalties that have been paid to the BRE are illegal because the BRE was not the only traditional political establishment in Western Zambia. Therefore, if the law is followed to its logical conclusion, the BRE, the Gov’t of Zambia and the British Gov’t owes the Nkoya Royal Establishments (NRE) millions of Pounds in withheld royalties plus interest.

  102. In fact the first commercial mining to take place in Zambia was around the area between Kaoma and Mumbwa districts which is unders Nkoya chiefs Mutondo, Kahare and Kabulwebulwe. Permission to prospect for minerals in that area was obtained from Nkoya chiefs. It is clear therefore that the BRE were allowed to receive royalties on land that did not belong to them. This confussion is the creation of desparate British colonialists and equally desparate Kololo fanatics who were blinded into the colonial frauds of that time. The BRE thinks Zambians do not know that they are demanding something the obtained illegally and fraudently. This is a crime!!

  103. Why not just let Lozis rule? BRE is a threat to the existence of Zambia. Once recognized, Copperbelt, NW province, part of lusaka and Southern provinces will be under BRE! Its not a simple issue. KK, Chiluba and RB knows that LOZIs are a big threat to everyone!

  104. #108 The claim by the BRE has been narrowed to Western Province alone. It does not include CB, NWP and SP. It is all about Western Province, however, within Western Province, the Litunga and the BRE are not the only traditional political establishment so even the claim of Western Province which the prefer to call barotseland is itself illegal. The barotseland agreement was obtained through lies and fraud from a group of colonialists who were themselves illegally operating in present day Zambia. The barotseland aggreement is like handling stolen goods. It does not matter how you obtained something illegal because the fact remains that handling stolen goods or good obtained through lies and fraud is itself a crime and it is illegal so in other words the barotseland agreement is illegal.

  105. 108-Which threat ? We can maybe give them lealui not those other parts you have mentioned outside western province.The chaps were dribbled at independence ,now it is too late for lungowe and Lubinda to start crying over spilled milk.

  106. 21 century and people are still being identified by tribes! While the EU (which I am a citizen of) is expanding somewhere in kukuland there is division going on.
    …when will they ever learn…

  107. North-western, Southern, and even parts of central cannot on their dead bodies accept to belong to such an agreement called BRE, as these are progressive provinces whose minds are pre-occupied with development and not divisions. Lozis should just identify what makes them poor which every zambian knows even if the owners of this poverty do not want to face reality. There is potential in that province but certain individuals are just divisive in nature. Lozis should learn to manage diversity and not boasting nanjala they are doing. These are the most backward people in zambia who think people from other provinces should not work there as they demonstrated it to Father Bwalya at radio Liseli. They demanded Father Bwalya to be removed because sometimes he use to play or air music not in loz

  108. Honestly these Lozis is that the only submission they can bring to the NCC, instead of development, no wonder they are the least developed in Zambia. These Indunas are greedy people who want to take advantage of their own people. So if they succeed all Lozis outside western province will have to be getting Visa to come to our united Zambia, and of course those established one in today zambia will have to be driven out so that they can join and enjoy that poverty stricken land. As for visas we will be giving them two days visas which will be costing ZK20 million so that they do not come to infect us with their poverty as modern zambians. These people are really petty indeed, I remember they made it an issue when RB went to attend their Kuomboka wearing a white barret.

  109. Actually, we are now organising lawyers to start persuing you for receiving money(mineral loyalties) on property which is not yours, because this money belonged to Lamba chiefs who were displaced because of the same mines. Whoever ate that money should pay it back in no time because that was illegal. Lozis can claim their western province, period and not to infect other progressive provinces. They stoped the Diamond mining in their area just because of greedy from these same indunas. You feel you can mine those diamonds when you become a country yet you want development from other people’s sweat, forget guys.

  110. Lozis, you are not even ashamed to open this topic. People are silent on this agreement because they have just forgiven you even if you did not ask for an apology, because they know how illegal your move and behaviour was. If you bring it now you will make Lamba chiefs claim for compasation from you for receiving money which was meant for them. You cannot receive money on behalf of someone then you keep silent pretending everything is normal. Many educated Lozis do not want to bring this matter because it would open too many pages with problems. I do not blame these Indunas because they are least educated but it is the responsibility of some of you who are enlightened to pump knowledge in them, so that they can close their lips.

  111. Lozis you really surprise me a lot the way you do things even if it is respect for your chief. You can fund raise for Kuomboka celemony but cannot do the same when there are floods in your area and people are living on raw mangoes, what misplaced priorities. The same money you use to shift your paramount chief comes from the same provinces and people you call thieves. If you had money why can’t you move your chief without asking from us, actually I would say it is us who move your chief from our money as zambians. You really have to learn to respect and love other tribes, you cannot live in isolation guys, we need each other.

  112. The supporters of BRE claim to be educated and know the history of BRE agreement but I beg to differ since the facts posted by most bloggers here review that the BRE are guilt of historical fraudulent acts by giving, claiming land that was not under their authority to the British .# 91 has posted a question to those of you who claim to be conversant with the history of BRE and non of you have responded. Just like Chomba#113-115 has said, this historical event will open a can of worms because the Tonga, Lamba, Kaonde will have the right to revisit the claim by the majesty “King” the Litunga of Lozi. The Litunga will be liable for the false claims hence the 78 million ponds will have to be returned to Chief Nkana the rightful owner of the royalties.

  113. The BRE agreement was made under false assumptions, this is evident in the report given by the British Company negotiating the acquisition of land.The whole idea by the British company was to prevent the Belgian prospecting company, which had already secured Katanga in present day DRC, encroaching from the north to take the rich copperbelt of the Lamba.Therefore,the Litunga was tricked to sign the claim, so much about Lozi smarts, to claim that it his land in exchange for security.In the history of the Lamba, there has never been a time when the Litunga has had inluence hence it is a deliberate case similar to the famous error that Dr David Livingstone was the first man to discover Mosi-o-tunya and yet he was the first WHITE man to see it! Therefore we can correct the BRE in the same way

  114. ct’d from 118
    And declare the the BRE agreement null and void. And remain with a united Zambia as the Lozi continue enjoying their rich heritage .Then we should all encourage his majesty the Litunga to excite his subjects, ‘the most educated people in Zambia,’ to translate this education into development in Western province instead of merely boasting about the academic smarts. I strongly believe that superior knowledge should reflect development. So this is the challenge for all you “most educated Lozis” and the BRE.

  115. I remeber in History briefly learning how the Litunga was tricked into giving away land that wasnt his. Therefore, i think this issue should be discussed and settled. Starting from the fact that the Litungas receieved money from the british for property that did not belong to him, therefore were protected from being colonised. Lets be progressive in thinking because the world is so diverse and have moved on from days of kings and autocracy. Many Lozi’s have become integrated into Zambia why do you want to create refugees of people who already have a home. How many lozi’s agree to this? Maybe only the ill informed ones who think this may make them wealthier. However this agreement should be discussed and put to rest so many countries in this world are amalgamations?

  116. Simon when you contend that the copperbelt was part of the Barotse land, an’t you insulting the lambas who have occupied that area pre colonial. At no time were the lambas subjects of the Lituga. The BRE agreement was flawed right from the get go and it is worthless in present Zambia. It was crafted based on lies from both sides.

    And for others, it is not true that lozi are tribalist no more than the bembas or luvales are. I will judge any Zambian based on their deeds not where they come from or what language they speak. We should stop perpetuating stereotypes about others. I have lozi friends that I trust more my own so called tribesmen. Only the ignorant look at color language or ethinicity.

  117. I always hear the word Lozis will never rule Zambia…this is like a Bl;ack man will never rule the USA. Or a tonga cant rule Zambia . How foolish , just a take a minute and think if history were that the Chitimukulu was the obne who signed an agreement to enforce a unitary state in 1964…i think we would all be at the ransom of the Bembas but alas …..just google for urself Baroste Agreement and u know why KK got money in 1964 (millions of Pounds ) from Barotse land to build the rest of Zambia.

    Fools havent read and the yappy like dogs!!!! read and understand why people can came all the way and make submissions. Chitimukulu or Mwata Kazembe cant coz there was no soreignity of thier so called states before 1964. Please read yo history. Am a proud Lozi and am happy the govt has no agr

  118. The govt will have to agree came rain came sunshine. Why are we a unitary state ask yourself. Its because we signed an agreement. Without the western vote no Bemba , Nyanja, Tonga or lozi can be elected president. Though their number is small its what always makes one to win. For ur infor Mazoka won but was robbed.

    So you lozi haters be informed read.

  119. [email protected], that piece of paper was based on fraud and is not worth the paper it was printed on – where on earth have you ever heard of anybody giving away property which is not his? That £78 million was thus fraudulently received by the BRE and rightfully belongs to the Lamba chiefs.
    In todays era, it would be called receiving property while suspecting it is stolen and is a criminal offence.
    Count yourselves lucky that nobody else is demanding that this colonial injustice be corrected.

  120. Ba Ma Lozi at it again. First on paper they claimed Copperbelt to be theirs and signed for it in their agreements with the colonialist.

    Lamba chiefs must denounce that agreement. The copperbelt belongs to them and they must clearly come out on this one, not any once tribe far away from the copperbelt to be benefiting. In fact the Lamba chiefs or people must claim all the monies paid out previously to the BRE in mineral royalties.

  121. Continue dreaming with your lamba chiefs am proud to be Lozi…..we are not dreaming , for shizo! the NCC has already received the submissions. Keep on dreaming with your baseless knowledge and sure we are proud and happy about it. Your tribes shiver when Bambas speak but for us we speak our language regardless . It shall always be like that and no one person will change that. Just because ur small tribe never had any agreement you want us to behave like yourselves. So Ricky Robby …what r u doing in another , you fellas who havent made it here in Zed esp you …grow up. For ur infor Barosteland agreement is here to stay.

    Which lamba chief are you talking about people who cant read the constitution in English…am sorry! but unfortunetly people of every tribe have every right .

  122. My Tonga friend no Bamba will ever agree to a Tonga President , they say it that no Lozi or Tonga can ever rule Zambia. You think they joke when they say that, everone knows they have a lunatic standing for Presidency but alas his Bemba so even the so called learned will rally behind him. Once i received these circularised mails on SATAs address to havard guess what all the so called learned Bembas were forwarded the mail. So if you dont know your history read. HH unfortunetly went into marriage with SATA and i know the Tongas will not allow him to deputise SATA otherwise they shall shan the elections. So Musa kotaleki aba balumbu….ba ku nyongane….they are the worst tribalists. SATA keeps on advertising in Bemba no one has spoken if it was HH it would have been his too tribal how does

  123. This agreement story only comes up when some Lozi figures have lost their gov’t jobs. Is it not recent that Inonge Mbikusita Lewanika lost her job in the USA, so as Mbula in RSA, Simasiku in Japan, Walubita in India and Inonge’s brother Aka at State House who has been transfered to TAZAMA? The Litunga and company always want to use this issue to get gov’t jobs for his relatives, that is what this discussion has been reduced to, its a tactic for the jobless Lozis to get gov’t jobs. Once a few figures get jobs, this issue suddenly disappears…to be used when the list of jobless lozi politicals starts to grow again. Its all fraud and lies through and through. Fraud is now part and parcel of the BRE.

  124. These African *****s. Awe mwandi. You have seen war in Rwanda, Burundi and other places which had been triggered by tribes. Shut you foolish mouths and stay in peace. What is really wrong with our skin and mind. Soon this will result in someone from lozi land slaughtering another from Bemba. And that will be it erruption of civil unrest. We blacks this will be a big issue.
    Do you think the kaondes will be happy to be ruled by the BRE. Shut up…… This is very sensitive and undermines state security.

  125. Nkoyas were subjects and are still subjects, they know their history please read……………Dont start trying to dispute issues that you dont know. Most fellas here say all sorts of rubbish to appease the ignorance. Its sad when you guys have the ability to read , you cant just do abit of research. If you enter into a contract and one party disowns the same, doesnt the other contractee or the other camp have to right to complain. So when the contract is now being changed cant the same people complain espcially when original provisions are being done away with? what is wrong with the Baroste complaining about it? when u all know that an agreement was signed.

    Google the agreements its online and read.

  126. This Agreement Should not be supported because it will bring war in Zambia ,these people claim N/western and C/belt to be there Land which is unacceptable and we shall not allow this in our Land.
    It is for this reason that A lozi should not be voted to rule Zambia,and should just be like that to avoid civil strife in zambia.
    Shame.

  127. dogma998:

    Being proud doesn’t mean you put your BRAINS on pause or autopilot! Yes you should be proud being Lozi, but be proud being Zambian first. What is so hard about that?!

    I guess it is human nature not to appreciate what you have until you lose it, right?. And you Lozis have a lot to lose if you keep insisting on this fraudulant document you call “Barotseland agreement.” Because even the so called “Barotseland” being referred to in the agreement does not exist—when did Lambas & others become Litunga’s subjects?

    Be careful, this issue will simply go ‘Ka poof!’ in your faces one day. Just be appreciative of the fact that other tribes have tolerated this BRE nonsense so far. Progressive Lozis, please speak up and against the few selfish individuals in your midst!

  128. Ka #142, were is it written that Nkoyas are subjects of who? You must be dreaming. The Nkoyas gave the Kololo some land to settle in Western Zambia after running away from the Mfecane wars of South of the Zambezi. If anything, it is the Lozis who are subjects of the Nkoya NOT the other way round. Who gave your Litunga shelter when they were running away fro Sebitwane and group, was it not the Nkoyas who looked after your Litunga for 21 years? or have you decided to forget that part of History? Nkoyas WILL NEVER support any barotse nonsense. Nkoyaland is an independent Kingdom dating back many centuries so stop spreading lies that Nkoyas are subjects. Just last month the Nkoya Royal Establishment (NRE) and all Nkoyas celebrated the Kazanga ceremony in Kaoma district with pride and honor.

  129. Shame on you DK muntu………no one has said or talked about war, you people run to talk about war when the submissions are clear and dont even talak about anything the suggests the western province wants to rule over the area or bounderies or whatever, again you fail to read the article and you run to ur own conclusions i think we have alot of dull people on this blog.

  130. My dear dogma998, leave the ignorant alone and just let them continue yapping out of nothing. We have a rich history which we respect. These chaps dont understand. We have a chief in North western province representing the BRE. The problem is that people dont read. Put things in a book u will let a Bemba ignorant. They think its fine to speak Bemba and not an other. My dear Tongas, Nkonyas, Kaondes, Luvales, Lundas, we know were we are coming from. Look at what is happening, the mining copmpanies have made profit in North western province, the money goes to CP and LK. Why not develop north western province.

  131. Nkoya Pride …wapinduku! …..again you dont seem to know what you are talking about….why do you think their was a problem with the induna who was in charge of the Nkoya land in the recent past. If there was no rule in Nkoya land why do you still have an induna with a village in your lands??? i understand your dispire. Its like the Nkoyas have always wanted automony…..we understand but when someone fights for autonomy his under something. We are not saying litunga will start collecting taxes ………no read the srcipt. we dont want the so called Zambia to forget there was an agreement which had provisions .And the provisions have to be honored.

  132. Please Lozis, you will not get anypart of the CB through your so called agreement. I do not believe that all the lambas and other tribes in CB and NW were or are under the Litunga you shall just bring problems in the country. You want the litunga to be equated almost at par with the President. Yes a contact is a contract. To start with it was signed with Foreigners, Agents of Cecil Rhodes to dupe Africans and so does not really bind africans. Colonialist left and so they left with your agreement. I belive Kaunda played it cool to get votes by claiming regonistion of it and later dumped it. Ask Kaunda why he did that before he dies. So to say the list you cant claim to anything to day apart from Mongu, Kalabo and Sesheke I think no Ilas or Nkhoyas would want to be part of your scheme. 4Get

  133. Please Read
    LONDON
    HER MAJESTY’S STATIONERY OFFICE
    EIGHTPENCE NET
    Cmnd.2366
    THE BAROTSELAND AGREEMENT 1964
    Following talks in London between the British Government, the Government of Northern Rhodesia and The Litunga of Barotseland; an Agreement regarding the position of Barotseland within independent Northern Rhodesia was concluded at the commonwealth Relations office on 18 th May, 1964. It is entitled, “The Barotseland Agreement 1964”. It was signed by Dr.K.D.Kaunda, Prime Minister of Northern Rhodesia, by Sir Mwanawina Lewanika III,K.B.E Litunga of Barotseland and by the Right Honourable Duncan Sandys M.P Secretary of State for common wealth Relations and for the colonies signifying the approval of Her Majesty’s Government.

    The text of the Agreement is attached as the…

  134. APPENDIX
    THE BAROTSELAND AGREEMENT 1964
    This Agreement is made this eighteenth day of May, 1964 between KENNETH DAVID KAUNDA, Prime Minister of Northern Rhodesia of the one part and SIR MWANAWINA LEWANIKA THE THIRD ,K.B.E., Litunga of Barotseland, acting on behalf of himself, his heirs and successors, his council, and the chiefs and people of Barotseland of the other party is signed by the Right Honourable Duncan Sandys, M.P Her Majesty’s principal secretary of state for common wealth relations and for the colonies, to signify the approval of her majesty’s government in the united kingdom of the arrangements entered into between the parties to this agreement and recorded therein.
    Whereas it was proposed that the northern Rhodesia shall become an independent sovereign state to be…

  135. known as the republic of Zambia.
    And where as it is the wish of the government of northern Rhodesia and of the Litunga of Barotseland,his council and the chiefs and people of Barotseland that northern Rhodesia should proceed to independence as one country and that all its peoples should be one nation:
    And where , as having regard to the fact that all treaties and other agreements subsisting between her majesty the queen of the United Kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland and The Litunga of Barotseland will terminate when Northern Rhodesia becomes an independent sovereign republic and her majesty’s government in the United Kingdom will there upon cease to have any responsibility for the government of Rhodesia including Barotseland. It is the wish of the government of northern…

  136. Rhodesia and of The Litunga of Barotseland to enter into arrangements concerning the position of Barotseland as part of the republic of Zambia to the place of the treaties and other agreements hitherto subsisting between Her Majesty the Queen and The Litunga of Barotseland:
    And whereas on the sixteenth day of April,1964 a provisional agreement was concluded at Lusaka with purpose and it is the desire of the government of northern Rhodesia and The Litunga, acting after consultation with his council to conclude a permanent agreement with this purpose:

  137. NOW THIS AGREEMENT WITNESSETH and it is hereby agreed between the said Kenneth David Kaunda, Prime Minister of Northern Rhodesia, on behalf of the government of Northern Rhodesia and the said Sir Mwanawina Lewanika the Third, K.B.E., Litunga of Barotseland on behalf of himself, his heirs and successors ,his Council and the chiefs and the people of Barotseland as follows:-

  138. Interview with Dr KK the Most Excellent President!!!!

    Mbuzi: Mr KK what can you say about this THORNY BRE issue

    KK: Ha Ha Ha One Zambia One Nation, Ha Ha Ha

  139. 1. Citation and commencement
    This agreement may be cited as the Barotseland Agreement 1964 and shall come into force on the day on which Northern Rhodesia, including Barotseland, becomes the independent sovereign Republic of Zambia.
    2. The Constitution of Zambia
    The constitution of the republic of Zambia shall include the provisions agreed upon for the inclusion herein at the constitutional conference held in London in May, 1964 relating to:-

  140. (a) the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms of the individual;
    (b) the judiciary; and
    (c) the public service
    and those provisions shall have full force and effect in Barotseland.
    3. Administration of Justice
    (1) Subject to the provisions of this Agreement, the people of Barotseland shall be accorded the same rights of access to the high court of the republic of Zambia as are accorded to other citizens of the Republic under the laws for the time being in force in the Republic and a judge or judges of the high court selected from among the judges who normally sit in Lusaka shall regularly proceed on circuit in Barotseland at each intervals as the due administration of justice may require.

  141. Nkoya Pride get u facts correct. When the kololo came who did they find? u think the kololo are the lozis. ok if u are nt subjects, why do u pay homage to the Litunga? And why do we have a lozi chief in evey area controlled by the nkonyas. Just call a spade a spade.

  142. (2) The people of Barotseland shall be accorded the same rights of appeal from the decisions of the courts of the Republic of Zambia as are accorded to other citizens of the Republic under the laws for the time being in force in the Republic.
    4. The Litunga and His Council
    (1) The government of the republic of Zambia will accord recognition as such to the person who ois for the time The Litunga of Barotseland under the customary law of Barotseland.
    (2) The Litunga of Barotseland, acting after consultation with his Council as constituted for the time being under the customary law of Barotseland shall be the principal local authority for the government and administration of Barotseland.

  143. (3) The Litunga of Barotseland, acting after consultation with his Council, shall be authorised and empowered to make laws for Barotseland in relation to the following matters, that is to say-
    (a) The Litungaship;
    (b) The authority at present known as the Barotse Native Government (which shall hereafter be known as the Barotse Government);
    (c) The authorities at present known as Barotse Native Authorities;
    (d) The courts at present known as Barotse Native Courts;
    (e) The status of the members of the Litunga’s Council;
    (f) matters relating to local government;
    (g) land;
    (h) forests

  144. traditional and customary matters relating to Barotseland alone;
    (j) fishing;
    (k) control of hunting;
    (l) game preservation;
    (m) control of bush fires;
    (n) the institution at present known as the Barotse native treasury;
    (o) the supply of beer;
    (p) reservation of trees for canoes;
    (q) local taxation and matters relating thereto; and
    (r) Barotse local festivals.

  145. l know why the lozis are pushing their so called BRE, they know that no lozi will ever be voted on the highest chair of mother zambia, so by having their own country, they stand a chance of having a president and king from loziland……l think it will be better as they dont contribute much to zed more to say their own province….l wish them luck in their future…!!

  146. 10. Revocation
    The herein before recited Agreement of the sixteenth day of April, 1964 is hereby revoked.

    In witness whereof the parties hereto
    Have hereunto set their hands in the
    Presence of: – K.D.KAUNDA Prime Minister of Northern Rhodesia (Signed)

    E.D. HONE Governor of Northern Rhodesia (Signed)

    (Signed) IMENDA SIBANDI Ngambela of Barotseland

    MWANAWINA LEWANIKA III Litunga of Barotseland

    Signed by the Right Honourable Duncan
    Sandys in the presence of :- (Signed)
    (Signed) RICHARD HORNBY DUNCAN SANDYS
    Parliamentary Under Secretary of Her Majesty’s Principal Secretary
    State for Commonwealth Relations of State for Common wealth Relations And for the Colonies And for the Colonies

  147. Dogma998

    You have all wrong, a contract that is based on lies is void. Unless you know nothing about contracts, it does not matter how, when, why, where or who signed such a contract, as long as it is based on a foundation of lies, it is void. I gave you one example of when your chief was given refuge by the Nkoya chiefs Mutondo and Kahare somewhere between 1830s and 1860s, this was before 1898 when the alleged barotse agreement was first signed. So how then can you call a group your subject when they are the ones that gave your leader protection and refuge? It is like Nelson Mandela, Thabo Mbeki or Robert Mugabe saying Zambians are his subjects when it is us who gave the named individuals refuge to stay in Zambia. Your logic is flawed because it is based on lies, simple.

  148. NANA if you do not know the history of zambia just keep quiet because there is no country cold zambia without barosteland. asks stupid Dr kaunda how he was chased in 1962 in England when he went with 2 Bemba Chiefs and 1 from the nyanjas. The whites told Him that if he wanted Independence he should first ask the Litunga of barosteland that is how the agreement was SIGNED with the help of Mundia Nalumino and the Wina brothers. so those who do not uderstand the agreement late them shut up. late be because were not stupid to have given the Independence. *****s read the histotry of the country which STUPID kk has hiden for everyone to Know linja tuwe konji busholi kona zomuziba

  149. #159
    Where have you seen Nkoyas paying homage to the Litunga, you must be living in the past. There is no such thing and those characters who you call chiefs in Nkoya areas are just imposters. It was a way of the Litunga to try and fool Zambians outside Western Province by claiming that he has chiefs all over Western Province when it actual fact the are just imposters who just happen to live in Nkoya areas. Again Kaunda, Mwanawasa tolerrated such lies for their own politcal survival, it is not as per tradition. Chiluba put the record straight as far as this issue is concerned that is why no one from Western Province among the Lozi has anything good to say about chiluba because he could see through your lies. So don’t fool yourselves, Nkoyas will NEVER support your barotse nonsense!!

  150. What nonsense this is. .

    Looks like the BRE has run out of things to do. I thought there was a lot of poverty in Western Province, why don’t they spend sleepless nights on that? BRE should take up some more relevant challenges. Out of the so many important things that are wrong with the constitution, they want to make this an issue. Their dream of dividing Zambia will never work. In fact, that is why the rest of the country is careful not to let a BRE-bootlicker get into state-house just to cause civil war. We will not have it. Adapt or remain poor.

    ONE ZED, ONE NATION!

  151. Why dont we discuss the future?

    Which one of you can turn around Zambia to be self sufficient?

    All of us are just time wasters!!! Lets find ways of doing business!!!

    this issue seems a big HISTORYYY!!!! 1 Z 1 Nation

    I cry for all of friends!!! Will do my best to change what I can to make

    my extended family better unlike talking things the whites lied to us in order to

    defraud us!!! Shame on the people proposing divisions!!!!

    A divided house does not stand: very simple words the so called most

    educated of the BRE cant undersstand!!!

    Even now you have the BRE, turn it around like my EASTERN PROVINCE…

    Where we grow our own food!!!! Autonomy is just an excuse – what can youdo then that you cant do

    now economically… Check yourselves – it might be selfis..

  152. So the Litunga was even knighted…….very funny!!Get over it u Lozis and pay back to the Lambas what u owe them.
    This is the same reason why Namibians of Lozi origin are not liked in Namibia.The bastards were informers for the colonialists and didnt want independence.
    Turn that education into development.Thats some good piece of advice.Why do u want to cling onto government jobs,if u are so smart and educated?Use ur brains and set up businesses,if u r so smart.

    ONE ZAMBIA,ONE NATION!The Litunga should stop dreaming…….he’s never gonna be emperor!!!!

  153. A VERY BOLD AND CLEAR PICTURE SHOWING US WHY LOZIS CAN NOT BE ZAMBIAN LEADERS..!! kicking themselves in their feet..!! shame on you people..!!

  154. Someone is clearly lying to the Litunga and feeding him with dreams of grandeur as the Emperor of a huge stretch of land including CB. Fast-track to the presidency and untold wealth. And those lying elements are in the BRE – some mis-educated nimrods whose selfishness and tribalism knows no bounds. The Litunga is just a chief and he will never be anything more than that. The power they want to bestow on him is now vested with the democratically elected president of the united Zambia, not some lone Lozi chief whose intentions we are not even sure of.

    Zambia is ONE. We have a lot problems to solve. This piece of history is now officially only relevant for the history books. Civil war over the Copperbelt is the last thing we need.

  155. Chomba chomba whatever that means check the bounderies of barosteland and see whether the law you are taking about will apply. We have a king in baroste land and chiefs he is the only king in this useless country which does not respect lwas even those birth to the country called zambia. please read and know where come from. before opening your mouth

  156. We know the BRE is driven by lust for ethnic cleansing. We have seen this before in other parts of Africa. Its almost always the precursor to civil war and genocides.

  157. we do need anyone’s support Nkoya pride Chiluba used the divide and tricks that why he made you the Nkoyas fight the lozis but wait and see what happens we will never come to for support even the international community is aware of this issue why is zambia called a unitery state if the agreement is nonsenes. think guys

  158. lituba @175. Albeit,you have a king and your province is the poorest, if not poorest in the whole wide world? Its not about kings & queens, its about the well being of every person called zambian. Do not look at swaziland & think that could happen here too, No! That agreement was signed by KK who also united us-meaning perhaps the colonialist favoured you coward Lozi’s for your timidity. The reason that you paid mineral loyalties, they wanted to give you what did not belong to you alone but to every zambian on earth. Thats myopic kind of reasoning. is there any thing wrong with being united? If you talk of development-all the govt;s past & present have had more Lozi’s than any other-Even the current minister of indalama is one of you. So blame yourselves for your nature.

  159. Dogma998 – Just as much as you fraudulently gave away lands you did not own, KK dribbled you to assert his authority over you. An agreement premised on fraud cannot stand up to the scrutiny of any competent court and your so-called Barotseland agreement is one such.
    You will not drag me into personal issues as I only want to stick to issues of concern to every patriotic Zambian – and unity is the major concern now. Particularly since it is becoming clear that some extremists from Loziland are now showing their true colors.
    I don’t think there’s any group in Zedland which is showing such extreme tribal colors as you and a few of your cohorts on this blog. Here, I don’t include the vast majority of Lozis who are good people.

  160. NCC, Please ignore the genocidal rants of the BRE. Forget their stories, want they are really after is to take a piece of the united, peaceful Zambia and make it ethnically homogeneous. Lord knows what they will do with the Lambas and other tribes.

  161. those who do not understand the agreement late them read it we are say zambia should be ceded on that some parts should be part of barosteland. see barosteland.com if you want to more

  162. To you all my dear Zambians please there was an agreement which was signed in 1964.What the LOZI’S are saying is that the agreement must be followed.Anything contraller LOZI’S are saying NO to that and strongly feel its our right as LOZI’S to demand what belongs to us be done.TO KONKOTE WA MWA NONGOLO.MUYOYANGE MALOZI KA MUKANA.WA CHILA NGUMBILI UKE MULIPUMU

  163. @litaba

    The only thing we will find at Barostleland.Com is more genocidal, ethnic cleansing rants veiled in some twisted piece of now irrelevant history.

    Quit this foolishness and concentrate on building the country. One Zambia . . .

  164. Nkoya Pride and Chomba both have a bipolar disorder. They are shouting loud about ‘one Zambia one Nation’ but proceed to rail against Lozi ethnicity. In their small warped logic one Zambia should be to the exclusion of Lozis. Now this is the definition of madness. Nkoya Pride of course you have the right to be proud of your ethnicity however do not deny the same to Lozis. Chomba which company was stopped from mining Diamonds in Western Province and when? Is this just a figment of your fertile but unconstructive imagination? Can you tell us why then Caledonia, Motapa and BHP are prospecting for Minerals in Western Province? Chomba I suspect your’e the son of your aunt.

  165. Sometimes when u start arguing with fools u may end up being perseived one…. i rest my case . Arcle 2 is very clear …then you have idoits saying all sorts of things war etc just how stupid people wrongly interpret things we need saine people. Its like the PACT , people already know both SATA and HH will stand but they will sink their heads in the sand and say its united. Grow up! its a shame…proudly lozi born lozi die lozi….if u dont like it …well thats your problem. As to whether we are bad people u know us…we know the tribe that thinks its the best in Zambia. Unfortunetly they are thieves. Do i need to spell them no….after all we are now one….and we love each other but facts will remain facts so let it be.

    Love u all and wll sorry if i said something to bad….its huma

  166. [email protected] There you go ma bro! I wish some facts would ever come to pass, or else Western province will remain to be the poorest,timidiest,remortest,lots of cowardice & the list is endless. I rest ma case, rest i should be taken for a Lozi.

  167. @dogma998

    Yes, you are human but in all your rants, you seem to have forgotten that. The Litunga, BRE . .they are all just human beings who can experience envy, lust for power, genocidal thoughts, etc like the rest of us. We understand that tribal and ethnic issues are your particular weakness but this crazy dream of yours that you cherish like Gollum’s Precious won’t ever, ever happen. The people of Zambia won’t allow it. My advice to you is to continue being proudly Lozi (nothing wrong with that) but recognize that Zambia is now forever ONE COUNTRY. Move on and may be one day you will grow to see the power of unity and the danger of the seeds of division you’re sowing.

  168. I have every reason to believe that the Litunga signed the the fraud Barotse Agreement out of fear of the repeat of another occupation after the rule of Sebitwane and then the dreaded Sekelutu.He did not want the repeat but in the process concessioned the land that did not belong to him and started getting the mineral royalties(Barotse Bank).we all know there are no mines in Barotseland and how can they get the royalties from as far areas as CB?

  169. “The royal establishment also submitted that for clause three of Article 4 to make sense, it should be supported by the acknowledgment of Barotseland Agreement of 1964, which enforces the unitary and indivisibility of the state”
    PLEASE, do not misinterpret the BRE. Don’t insult each other. BRE as custodians of the source of the unitary state, have taken it upon themselves to preserve the history of our country. Infact Zambian history is made richer by what BRE is saying.

  170. To legitimise the so called ‘barotse agreement’ is to say that it was correct for the British to colonise us. That will never get support of anybody.

    #189 you are very correct with your analysis. That is why this agreement is void. During Sebitwane occupation, the Litunga of that time had to flee his own kingdom and went to beg for protection and shelter to the Nkoya chiefs. The Nkoya chiefs gave him somewhere to stay, feed him, trained him into becoming a good hunter and traditional warrior. On top of that, they even allowed him to marry a Nkoya woman that is why all Lewanikas have Nkoya blood in them because of the union that took place. After that, it was also the Nkoya warriors who helped him to regain his chieftainship. You lozis should be grateful to the Nkoyas, they saved you!!

  171. “linja tuwe konji busholi kona zomuziba” I like that. Clearly a very emotive topic of discussion. It is interesting how a person can make tribalist remarks towards the Lozi’s, say no Lozi should rule zambia, and then sign off with “One Zambia” – Very baffling!

    A number of comments about the Lamba’s owning the mines are simply not factual. TBarotse land existed before the country you now call Zambia, and it included copperbelt. So you are not conferring any rights etc. Seccession means just that and there are international courts to enforce such decisions. Rant all you want. This is such a serious issue for GRZ, that people have died.

    A country that does not respect legal contracts cannot be taken seriously by investors. £78m is a fraction of what FTJ stole! Compromise!

  172. YOU LOZIS GOT DUPED BY YOUR OWN PEOPLE.

    1. The Litunga himself for signing something he did not understand.
    2. Wina sold you out and became the First Finance Minister ( All for the love of money)
    3. Wina & his Madam (Princess Mandrax Drug Queen Nakatindi ) duped the whole of you, because they loved money TOO MUCH.
    4. Wina had no shame. At one time when he was caught in India with Mandrax, he bought a passport under the name Mr. Hussein to fly into Zambia.
    5. This is the Princess that you are all proud of (She is a Drug Queen & Alcoholic)

    YOU AINT GONNA GET THIS MONEY….. LET’S MOVE FOWARD AND NOT BACKWARDS

  173. Do not insult people for raising a legitimate issue, that is why you give your tribe a bad name (you know yourselves!). This issue is not insurmountable and could easily be resolved (dipolmatically i hasten to add!) if we had the calibre of national leadership that we deserve as a country.

    Mwangala Zaloumis was part of NCC that left out BRE demands. You wont get anyone more lozi than her. Does that then put her in the category of “Amalozi”? Do not generalise. Let us not discuss issues as if we were at KMB market. Look at the leaders that you have produced – demagogues and thieves who have taken our country backward.

    “No Lozi will rule”.. says who and so what? and be like Chiluba?

  174. The international court of justice exists to enforce such issues and their rulings are binding across jurisdictions. The GRZ legal advisors are aware of that and that is why they take the issue more seriously and have sought to legalise and illegality rather than just argue from without.

    Unfortunately for them, they will be stopped in their tracks. For the record i do not think seccession is in the national interest and niether ( in my opinion ) do the majority of the BRE. And that is not what they are asking for.

    How many “royal” councils in Z are even capable of interpretting the meaning of the draft constitution and making meaningful submissions (apart from asking for Cars and salaries)

    You cannot base being chief on wearing a funny hat!

  175. Which ever way you look at it, Zambia is ONE and it shall never be divided. Those with time,money and energy to spend on diplomacy can proceed to hold talks with a group of people whose only motivation is to achieve 100% ethnic homogeneity and control the mineral wealth in the Copperbelt. If you want your riorities upside down, go right ahead but do not drag the rest of the country into unnecessary ethnic conflict.

    Meanwhile the rest of Zambia surges on, seeking solutions to real problems.

  176. #193 You say Barotseland existed before the country we call Zambia, well consider this, the Nkoyas existed before Zambia, they also existed before the 1898 when the so called agreement was signed and they also existed way before anyone calling themselves Lozi arrived in Western Zambia. The Nkoyas even existed before the Europeans even knew that there was a place called Africa. It is such facts that make your claim for legitimacy illegal and void. The African Union, ICC and the UN are fully aware of such. It would be interesting to know which International courts you are referring to.

    To the Nkoyas, this has nothing to do with tribe or division, it is about correcting an historical error that the BRE have been try to legitimise since they first met Europeans. One Zambia One Nation!!

  177. I dont think ka Chiluba wa paying attention when he was being debriefed by KK. Its all well and good ensuring that no Lozi becomes president ( i CAN understand why) but there is a reason why senior government positions eg PM Mundia, Masheke, Gen Sibanda etc were held by Lozi’s. KK was a smooth operator, not a tribalist – he looked at the national interest and united the country.

  178. 184 Keen,

    Thanks for the Baroteland /com link. If you go there, check out the map. I didn’t know the Lozis were big in Southern and Northwestern Provinces? What is that about?

    And it is rather tricky that they would include pieces of Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia, and Angola (though not the DRC – phew). Good luck in negotiating with those governments to give up parts of their territory. ;)

    It seems obvious to me that their ambitions go way beyond Western Province. That makes them not traditionalist and restorative, but expansionist.

  179. @Simple Simon

    “How many “royal” councils in Z are even capable of interpretting the meaning of the draft constitution and making meaningful submissions”

    This is NOT a meaningful submission. This is divisive tribal poison that can plunge this country into civil war if any of these BRE chaps had any real power.

    Perhaps you should also recall that “Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.”

  180. NOTE TO LUSAKA TIMES. As moderator you have a duty to ensure that you do not allow language that is likely to inflame and probably cause more harm than good. I am not for a minute suggesting censorship, but rather responsible journalism.

    It is widely accepted that racist (and consequently in our Zambian context) tribalist slurs should not be tolerated. If this debate were occurring in a transparent forum and at the national level, the consequences to our national unity and peace could be dire.

    On a positive note, your article has highlighted how deep the hatred for the lozi’s runs and how divided as a country we are.

  181. Keen @ 202. I am not for any sort of break up of Zambia, and niether are the BRE suggesting that. Point me to the paragraph. Local government decentralisation is not new and apart from that and maintaining things as they were in terms of recognising the Barotse agreement, they are not asking for any trouble.

    They have a democratic right to air their views and doing so does not make them tribalist or warrant the senseless attacks that we are all seeing above.

  182. Simple Simon # 193 ( I agree part of your notion )

    The sharpest Prime Minister we ever had in the Kaunda years was Kebby Musokotwane ( The Tonga chap)

    I am from Eastern Province, but hey the Man was sharp, articulate and likeable . As for Mundia, Lisulo & Masheke, they were all DULL chaps. Kebby got removed because; he was a threat to Kaunda.

    For sure Kaunda was trying to balance the Power. And that was very smart of him to keep the harmony

  183. #200 There we go again, now Nkoyas are not from Western Province? Nkoyas are Western Province from Kaoma, Mongu (which by the way is short for Mungulula, a Nkoya name), Kalabo, Limulunga, Sesheke, Shangombo and Mulobezi just to mention a few, you will find Nkoyas there in well established communities dating back many centuries.

  184. I don’t know what kind of reaction the BRE and its ilk expected when they announced that – like the prodigal sons they are – that they want to rule themselves and unlike any other chief in the country, bestow unheard-of power on their Litunga. And now they are complaining that there is deep-seated hatred for Lozis. What did they expect people to say when they’ve always known that the BRE has always wanted to split from Zambia and take the CB while at it?

    Well, I say they had it coming . . .

  185. Dont even get me started on the Nkoya’s……… 206, keep your hair on, thats just a joke!

    [email protected], “As for Mundia, Lisulo & Masheke, they were all DULL chaps”.. that literally made me laugh out loud. That may be true, you are entitled to your opinion, and the fact that you have categorised the Lozi PM’s as “dull” does not entitle me to call you a tribalist.

    I would argue that these men had proved themselves worthy of that position by their performance then and during and after that Job. I one should be judged by ones peers, that way the criteria is relevant, and Masheke etc had distinguished careers (P.S. General Masheke – Sandhurst Trained)

  186. @Simple Simon

    Well, then let the BRE publicly renounce its cession ambitions and repent in dust and ashes for ever having even thought of it. We are not fools and this is not the first time they are attempt to break away. This is just a different tactic. They are laws that should be followed if you want to push for government reform. Pulling out some ancient agreement and wanting it to be binding on the rest of the country is setting dangerous precedence and does not make any sense. Anything that goes into that constitution affects me and so I will not stand by and watch while some power-thirsty Litunga sets a dangerous precedence.

  187. Nkoya pride no Litunga went to seek shelter to the nkoyas its not written anywhere he went to angola kwa mashi to east wards. We are hated because of our litunga was Sharp to make kk sign and he actually told the lozis who wanted to be part of zambia that you wont be happy but they forced the litunga to sign. Nkoya pride Know your history and ask yourself why Zambia is called Unitery as simple as that. its because of the agreement whether you like or not.

  188. [email protected] 209.
    “Pulling out some ancient agreement and wanting it to be binding on the rest of the country is setting dangerous precedence and does not make any sense.”

    I think you will find that most constitutions eg U.S. are “ancient documents” and that is what establishes their value and legitimacy. That is the whole idea of the rule of law.

    The point you are missing is that even though you and i do not want seccession, the BRE are within their rights to raise the issues thay have raised. Those issues have been raised before, and no attorney general of zambia has said they are illegal etc, so what makes you think the situation has changed now? We need to look at solutions to the issue, i repeat, this issue can easily be handled maturely for the benefit of ZAMBIA.

  189. Keen … Most constitutions are ancient. Their in lies their legitimacy. I think i will go with attorney generals interpretation of legality over yours. BRE demands have never been illegal so whats changed?

  190. lozis are not asking for any pull out but if you mistreat us and making a loughing stoke by making us the poorest i think its better……..

  191. i will close my arguement by saying all those who do not read to do so and research if it was not there why is Zambia called a unitery state. by the way there is no country called zambia without the barosteland agreement of 9164 that is why kk was granted Independence. read my comments on 168 and you will know why the barosteland agreement 1964 is not illegal. please handle it with care it is not a simple issue as you think

  192. #211 You are either not Lozi or you don’t really know your history. Ask your Litunga, that is why the Nkoyas do not entertain any barotse nonsense because the Nkoyas were there during all your key aspects of your history within the present borders of Zambia. All I have read on this blog is one Lozi after another trying to twist Nkoya history in Western Zambia. I hope you understand why Nkoyas don’t entertain any stories based on barotse nonsense because they are based on twisted lies, half truths and outright lies.

  193. People dont like the Barotse agreement because one way or the other they feel that western province will benefit from it than the rest of Zambia. For those of you who have taken time to read what i posted you notice that development was to be done equally in all the provinces. Therefore for govt to maninalise western province is acqually abrogation of the Agreement. All social equalities are similar. We therefore are urging you so called learnt Zambians to realise that its not an issue of doing away with. Without the Barotse Agreement today you wouldnt have had your independence. Then u say its fraudulent how?

    I rest my case but people are really gitterly. For my Nkoya i guess being under the ambrella of Barotse hates you. Tell of the ills maybe i will open up my eyes.

  194. Its quite fascinating to see that when one group decides to speak, they get attacked and all you get is people attacking each other on the blog. The Draft constitution is for ‘Zambia’, and is supposedly there for the people. Now that everyone has had the time to vent about their issues, what have we actually achieved? What other issues are affecting us ie poverty, unemployment…… We don’t have to have the same opinion but the only way this constitution will work is through participation ascertaining what issues affect us, and the way forward.

  195. The Barotse Agreement is called that name because it was a legally binding document. Ask Kaunda about it. Why is he quiet? Among all the issues in this country I have never heard Kaunda say anything about it because he knows what he did. Whether people like it or not, it WAS AN AGREEMENT and parties ot it signed and the BRE simply want it acknowledged. SIMPLE!!! If you don’t like it, then go back to 1964 and reverse everything. Zambia can move on WITHOUT Western Province, but also Western Province Can move on WITHOUT the rest of Zambia. Don’t fool yourselves here debating a legal issue which you don’t understand. The Charter of the United Nations, recognises borders that existed during colonial times. The Barotseland was distinct from Northern Rodesia as Botswana was from South…

  196. 208 # Simple Simon

    General Masheke – Sandhurst Trained

    He may have been a good military man, but he was never a good Prime Minister. He was not a good communicator as well. That is just the fact. Just like GREY ZULU that is from Eastern Province and happened to have been a total WASTE OF SPACE in Zambian Politics.

  197. Lets not say things that hurt each other and divide our nation.I have first cousins from all parts of Zambia.Lets respect each other and not say things we will regret.attack issues not people

  198. @Mu Zambian

    Unlike you, those of us who vehemently oppose the BRE are not tribal and therefore ethnic cleansing and senseless tribal hatred like what you just manifested is abhorring. But I know I’m speaking to a someone whose mind is made up. Just as well people like you are few and severely limited in leadership skills and so your poisonous ideas go no where.

  199. whether you people like it or not,barotseland is an independent country with a right to self determination,we can break away and become a nation.i wish to advise people who are ignorant about the barotse agreement of 1964 must first read and understand the agreement.so that you debate from an informed point of view.the agreement for your own information establishes/brings together northern rhodesia with the barotseland protectorate to form what is now known as the republic of zambia.

  200. This issue must be urgently attended to. The Litunga shouldn’t be given a walk in the park. He owes Lamba chiefs a lot and they didn’t even know. I didn’t know it either until Chomba and Nkoya Pride came out of the woodwork. Boy, where have we been?
    ?

  201. Now we are beginning to see the true colors of the ethnic cleansers. We have slowly pulled them out of the hiding. Now the tribal hatred of the BRE and their ilk is clear for all to see. Their lust for hegemony is crystal clear.

    But we won’t have that Mein Kempf poison contaminating the republican constitution. Away with it!

  202. It would be interesting to know what Charles Milupi, a Lozi Headman, and an aspirant for the Zambian Presidency thinks about the Barotse Agreement. What position would he take as Zambian President?

    One possible peaceful solution to settle this problem definitively is to have a referendum in which all and only Lozis should participate along the lines of the referendum to determine whether Southern Sudan wants autonomy. If the majority opts for an autonomous Barotse kingdom, give it to them as long as this does not result in Lozi hegemony over the Copperbelt, Northwestern, and Nkoya areas.

  203. No Lamba chief/person will ever drink that Lozi ‘cool aid’!! Lambas, Kaondes, Nkoyas, etc, are just as proud as any other tribe in Zambia. You Lozis may have succeeded in lying to yourselves and your cohorts, the British, but keep up with this nonsense and you will have yourselves to blame in the end. You corruptly and fraudulently mortgaged away land that does not belong to you, and you started collecting rent/royalties from it instead of the rightful owners.

    Amazingly, not all Lozis have benefited from this fraud, yet they keep defending selfish motives of the Litunga and his henchmen—-sad!

    Good luck trying to shove this nonsense down the throats of other tribes included in this so called “Barotseland”. Isn’t what you have stolen already not enough?!!

  204. No Lamba chief/person will ever drink this Lozi ‘cool aid’!! Lambas, Kaondes, Nkoyas, etc, are just as proud as any other tribe in Zambia. You Lozis may have succeeded in lying to yourselves and your cohorts, the British, but keep up with this nonsense and you will have yourselves to blame in the end. You corruptly and fraudulently mortgaged away land that does not belong to you and started collecting rent/royalties from it instead of the rightful owners—-the Lamba.

    Amazingly, not all Lozis have benefited from this fraud, yet they keep defending selfish motives of the Litunga and his henchmen—-sad!

    Good luck trying to shove this nonsense down the throats of other tribes included in this so called “Barotseland”. Isn’t what you have stolen already not enough?!!

  205. 217 @ Mu Zambian –
    Your are living in your own little word. We are all One People. Lozi, Bemba, Ngoni, Lamba, Tumbuka, Mambwe, Tonga and so on. We have inter married so much that we share blood from all tribes of Zambia. Let us not push limits of thinking like that. In every tribe or colour there are Bad and Good people….

    Every tribe in Zambia has made some contribution. No one is above all

  206. JUST A THOUGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BEFORE YOU ARE BLACK, WHITE, CHINESE, GREEN OR PUPLE, LOZI, LUVALE, BEMBA AND ALL THAT, YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING AND THAT SHALL REMAIN. ALL THIS TRIBALISM, XENOPHOBIA & RACISM IS FUNNY TO ME AND IT JUST GOT TO SHOW YOU HOW LOW IN SPIRITUAL GROWTH HUMAN BEING ARE. LISTEN TO DIDO’S SONG, LIFE FOR RENT, WE ALL GONNA DIE AND LEAVE EVERYTHING BEHIND AND SO IF ANYONE SAYS YOU ARE IN MY COUNTRY, YOU TAKING MY JOB OR YOU ARE TRIBALIST, THAT STUFF IS USELESS, YOU JUST ON LOAN IN THIS WORLD, IF PEOPLE FIGHT FOR A PIECE OF LAND, WELL, GOOD FOR THEM BUT REMEMBER, WE DIE AND LEAVE IT ALL BEHIND. JUST A THOUGHT….:d

  207. You cannot claim to be non tribalist and at the same time proceed to declare that you cannot vote for a Lozi. Fact is you are a tribalist. Non tribalists vote for individuals who they think are qualified for office without reference to tribe, gender or race. If you cannot bring yourself to vote for a Lozi then you are a tribalist pure and simple! Honestly all those with an anti Lozi agenda please f.u.c off! Lozi this Lozi that. Did they drill your ugly mother in her stinking hole? Are you the bas.ta.rd child of a Lozi bull? Stop the hate you monkeys. If you are a failure in life it has nothing to do with Lozis. Blame the st.u.p.id and subhuman genes from your parents. You act as if at the mention of Lozi or Lozi name you get suffocated. F.U>C.K off!

  208. zambia is a unitary state and the baroste esablishment is that instrument that unifies it. to restore it is actually to mantain zambia’s legitimacy. lozis should be proud as the only tribal grouping that played a direct role in the formation of zambia. the rest did not have any tribal interests included. as long as they could provide politicians they were happy.
    this agreement is as important as any other parts of the constitution and the BRE is within its jurisdiction and mandate to pursue it. it is at the heart of the well being of its constituency. it is corruption to ignore it. the other issues are being taken care by submissions from ordinary politicians and common citizens like you and I. so dont ask why they are not making submissions about any other issues such as corruption.

  209. The Argument here is the so Called Barotse Agreement,where BRE claims ownership of Copperbelt ,N/western and part of southern Province,People in these areas are not foolish to allow this Nosense,only the whites who did’nt Know can support this rubbish,the litunga and his people should just come to senses because those days people had no access to Newspaers and books to learn what is going own,if they want Dulf here in Zambia let them Continue,for N/western people are more than ready for this because we have been following this.It’s not hatred but real,No one can allow some grab his wife without reacting. So let them claim N/western.

  210. DKMuntu
    You retarded inbreed exactly where in the BRE submissions have they claimed the parts of the Provinces you have listed. If English is a difficult language for you to understand try getting that ugly head of yours from you stinking a.s.s.

  211. Personally,I think that Northern Rhodesia would still have grabbed its independence without the Barotse agreement.Another way could have been found,hence Lozis should stop thinking and behaving as though they gifted all the other tribes a counrty called Zambia.Western Province didnt even fight the colonisers.There’re no riots there…….I guess Lozis were so down with the colonisers,when other provinces were filled with riots (chachacha).
    If Western Province can move on without the rest of Zambia,then why are u crying about development being denied to u?Since u are the smartest in Zambia,surely u can use those brains of yours to develop ur sandland and later on make the Litunga emperor.
    If Lozis wanna leave,let them leave.They’re too smart to be Zambians…so they think!!!

  212. north western,central,lusaka and southern province are part of barotseland.i urge the KUTA to declare independence from republic of zambia so that we determine for our beloved country.

  213. Spinach Mwisho,who does not Know your claims about our Rich land,Copperbelt and N/western.
    Moreover why were the Lozis bitten at Kamusongola Mountain in Kasempa.If you have Know Idea ,Pliz shutup than cheating.

  214. #240
    You should equally claim the land in Zimbabwe,Botswana,Namibia and Angola.Knowing how militant Bob is,somebody’s blood will ooze for real.

  215. Truth is,this Barotse Agreement is not popular in SADC cos it will cause instability in neighbouring countries especially Namibia where there are Lozis.I have a Namibian Ovambo friend and to say the truth has a lot of reservations about Lozis and many of prevented from serving in the National Intelligence(so he told me).

  216. DKMuntu Is that ugly head still stuck in your s.h.ith.o.le? The BRE submissions have nothing to do with your stupid hallucinations. Nobody is claiming your rich lands. #243 Sharpshooter you are another i.d.i.ot who have hallucinatory stories to tell about Lozi. You lot are just bigots full of hate. Why dont you get guns and kill every Lozi you know. It may satisfy your morbid hatred. Lozi this Lozi that. What the fu/ck have they done to you.

  217. Spinach Mwisho

    Well you have gone too far. Does your mother have a STINKING HOLE or has someone recently DRILLED into her? PLEASE, PLEASE & PLEASE … Just debate wisely. You are bringing yourself to lowest point. This is exactly the kind of WIND UP they want to get from you. It appears, you falling into the trap. You have so much anger that is not health to you

    There are a lot of Lozi people that have debated so far on this topic very wisely.
    Be human and not an animal. Why do you have to go that length? Find PEACE IN YOUR HEART.

  218. Spinach Mwisho #

    You are shaming us all with your language. Just put your points across and educate others.
    Calling peoples mothers names is the lowest one can. It’s basically Low Thinking. I am Lozi and have listened to both sides. I may not like other peoples views – but insults just shows that one does not have the capability to reason well.

  219. Wa WakuN’guma 245 & 246
    I agree with you. Our brother ( Spinach Mwisho ) # 235 appears to have taken this very extreme.

    Spinach Mwisho #
    Don’t you kill yourself with bitterness? Verbal Abuse language is not needed. Like you respect your mother , try and do the same for others too.

  220. most of the comments made here are from people who got no clue on the whole issue,its beta u shup up than make useless comments that dont add value to the debate,this is not a tribal issue for godsack,its a national issue,so if u bember are scared about anything then ur cowards,call me a tribalist i dont care most of u bembers are just thieves and crooks who dont wana work hard and just want fast money…ignornorant tribe

  221. If you are really this confident about Barotse Land why don’t you start campaigning on it and see where it takes you. My prediction is you will wake up the dead. There are two things I know Zambians to be passionate about. 1 Accepting homosexuality 2 Accepting the Barotse Land Agreement. This means Zambians are Homophobic and Xenophobic. You don’t want to mess with that do you?Try it for yourself and find out and instead of hiding behind the keyboard and blog. Good luck to you…

  222. I am Lamba and am tired of this Lozi BRE claims of copperbelt .The facts are clear.1)Yes their was an agreement entered between The Litunga and The British South Africa Company-representing the British Government 2) Keneth Kaunda made and agreement to honor the agreement in 1964. 3) The contents of the agreement are NOT HISTORICALLY CORRECT. 4) The British South Africa company committed fraud by tricking the Litunga into acknowledging land that was not under his authority. 5) Therefore, the land was claimed under false pretense by both the Litunga and the British. 6) The mineral royalties paid to the Litunga, therefore belong to the native tribes of the Copperbelt- Lamba and Lima people. As a result, we the Lamba will start a petition to challenge the validity of the BRE agreement.

  223. VIVA BRE, VIVA “Barotse Agreemente’ 1964”, You can say any forms of insults targeted towards US the LOZIS (Bana Bapoho yensu) it will not change history. It will not change the fact that there is an agreement that preceeded the formation of zambia. And this has to be acknowledged. Statistics show that western province has the lowest number of schools, colleges et al its stragtegically so by the politicians to suppress this blessed promised land. WE SHALL FIGHT FOR IT BY THE CONSTITUTION, OR THE BULLET OR THE BARREL OF THE GUN. WE SHALL NOT SIT TILL OUR STATUS IS RESTORED. How does everyone not want to acknowledge the fact that Zambia borrowed Sterling Pounds 78 million from the Bank of Barotseland yet they have not returned any favor in form of developing the area?

  224. Mwinsho Sulutani,

    ” 4) The British South Africa company committed fraud by tricking the Litunga into acknowledging land that was not under his authority. ”

    Thanks, this explains a lot. It explains why the BRE would claim to have a claim to Southern Province. :)

  225. I think this matter needs a serious leader to attend to it from a legal position. What I mean is let us not make the mistake of assuming manipulation can settle it. The lozis themselves must ensure it s settled. They are the aggrieved. No one will do it on their behalf. If I become President I ll restore it for the sake of Zambia good future.

  226. Mwisho, thanks for the info.
    I think any part of the country where the Lozi’s waged war before colonisation is claimed to belong to the Barotse territory. This includes: Western, Northwestern, C/B, part of Central and Southern Provinces and possibly Mbunda area. Barotseland in the Litunga’s mind is larger than meets the eye. The people in the named area are meant to be subordinates.

    In the mean time I continue advocating for change of name for Zambia to ‘Zambeziland’
    Have your say.

  227. I have gone through most of the above comments and it hurts that many Zambians do not know their history. It is no wonder we fail even to question govt on our rights. We are even quiet on issues of the ACC article on abuse of office. Guys, we must read. We are dangerously illiterate for the good of this country. When people say Barotseland has no resources, I get amazed but perhaps it shows how ignorant we are again. If you have seen the natural resource mapping for Zambia, then you will understand why this province is deliberately ignored by successive govts except for LPM- MHSRIP. Guys read. KINAKO Bulozi habu pumehe lu yo shwa tala lunosi. Let us see if we have no resources. Why bother if it remains poor anyway? The province has never benefited from NRG so we do not lose anything.

  228. These Lozis are ignorant, was Lozi spoken on the CB during that so called BRE? He (Litunga) was tricked into signing an agreement to sell LAND THAT WAS NOT UNDER HIS CONTROL. USELESS CHAP! NO WONDER EVERY ONE DOES NOT TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY COZ YOU THINK U RE CLEVER, and YET VERY BACKWARD IN THINKING!

  229. The issue of barotseland should be weighed and substantiated on both sides. Consequences should be anticipated and results of either progressive or deteriorative should be determined lest our efforts through our talking and defences may be futile. As much as we claim possession of Barotseland, are we really sure of the initial or rather original agreement that was contained therein? Do we really understand the boundaries? whichever case, if the government is not considerate of the problems our people are going through, then separation be the solution. But if this is not the case, then conclusive be determined and reason why we have come this far without such discord amid us.As far as evidence is concerned, Zambia owes barotseland more than just a say..lets not fight a losing battle

  230. Today the Lozi people have an intention of chasing all non-lozis from western province. To the planners of this idea, is this really ideal to do? How many lozi people are living in other parts of the globe? when did we ever hear of their being removed from their respective areas of settlement when engulfed in real issues of inter-marriages, friendships and other issues of vitality? With reference to the universal declaration of Human rights, our rights are universal and they can not be taken away. If we claim separation as our rights, then a proper way of handling this issue should be determined. It is not just western p[province but barotseland at large…copperbelt, lusaka, southern, western and north-western, are these the real part of barotseland?

  231. Is the Republic of Zambia a Polygamous or monogamous marriage???

    A Lozi extremist fighting for secession views the republic of Zambia as a monogamous marriage whose one party feels is denied conjugal rights and seeks for divorce on account of it. I feel the republic of Zambia is a polygamous marriage and all the parties to it are equal regardless of being married under customary marriage or statutory marriage.

    Advocates of for implementation of BA and those for secession argue that articles of the constitution which define Zambia as a unitary state should acknowledge the Barotseland Agreement to be the instrument by which the unitary state is constituted. This was indeed submitted by the Barotseland Royal Establishment (BRE) at Lusaka before the NCC Chairman, Chifumu Banda on2nd…

  232. My submission is that Zambia is a unitary, multi-ethnic and multi-cultural democratic state. This statement should not be changed to reflect the origins of the unitary state. Such origins should be found only in the archive – the annals of our origin and not in the constitution because the constitution is not a book of history but a book of law. Imagine if we also include in the preamble of the constitution that not only did KK agree with the Litungu which was written down, he also agreed with Paramount Chief Mpezeni, Paramount Chief Chiti Mukulu,….and Paramount Chief so and so, to form the Republic of Zambia would that be tantamount to involving the constitution to be a history book?

    Barotseland is not the only region of Zambia that has a clear right to establish a regional…

  233. Barotseland is not the only region of Zambia that has a clear right to establish a regional government. If we as Zambians decide to have a federal state of government, all regions have that right to form local governments if and only if we agree. We are all equal. Agreements or contracts are not only binding when written down but even when mutually agreed upon orally by the parties, such agreements are binding. And I submit that all traditional rulers agreed to form Zambia even when it was not written down. The only reason Barotse Royal Establishment was granted a written agreement was because of the mineral royalties which I submit where dubiously accorded to it as Lambaland was not being governed by the Litunga. The BSA Company just used the litunga to “legitimize” the theft of minerals…

  234. Little wonder, the Lozi are stereotyped to be tribalists because of the Barotseland Agreement. Imagine Charles Milupi was quoted as saying all ministers in the MMD government who haul from Western province should tell the nation how they feel about the police who shot dead their Lozi relatives. That is very careless statement that borders on tribalism. A Minister of Community Development and Social Services Michael Kaingu has admitted his involvement with shadowy groups calling for the secession of Western Province and sponsoring an illegal radio broadcast on Radio Lyambai in which alarming sentiments bordering on treason were aired. He was even distributing K170 Million to people calling for secession of Western Province from the rest of Zambia.

  235. They think they are more special than the other tribes. The Lozi leaders as usual are alienating themselves from the rest of Zambia and little wonder it will take not less than 30 years before a Lozi can be president of Zambia. They should take a leaf from Eastern Province where, the Easterners wanted a Bemba to be their Provincial MMD chairperson. Instead, they have the Royal Establishment advocating for implementation of BA. Is it because of the discovery of oil and gas in Western Province that we have this wrangling going on? What a shame!

  236. @Shikulupipo, in the first place the official Barotseland does not include CB. Secondly, How did the Makololo manage to conquer vast lands occupied by great populations of people in the savanna and established their rule within a short period of 30 years? Historian, Ellenberger, attempts to explain this phenomenon, observing that “other tribes contributed their quota, for he (Sibituane) defeated all the tribes he came across, without, however, seeking to take their country, but capturing their cattle, partly for food and partly to encourage their followers.” You see that what is pointed out is the Makololo never took land. Their land was the flat floodplain of the Upper Zambezi River. The conquered tribes such as the Tonga and Koya only paid taxes to the Lozi establishment for protection…

  237. @Shikulupipo, in the first place the official Barotseland does not include CB. Secondly, how did the Makololo manage to conquer vast lands occupied by great populations of people in the savanna and established their rule within a short period of 30 years? Historian, Ellenberger, attempts to explain this phenomenon, observing that “other tribes contributed their quota, for he (Sibituane) defeated all the tribes he came across, without, however, seeking to take their country, but capturing their cattle, partly for food and partly to encourage their followers.” You see that what is pointed out is the Makololo never took land. Their land was the flat floodplain of the Upper Zambezi River. The conquered tribes such as the Tonga and Koya only paid taxes to the Lozi establishment for protection

  238. The Royal Lozi Establishment is wat it is because of the mineral royalties paid to it by the British South African Company (BSAC). This was done despite of the fact that Copperbelt where the mining activities were undergoing was not being ruled by the Lozi. BSAC only needed a native consent to mining as a requirement by the Queen of England. The then inhabitants (Lambas) of the Copperbelt never had a central figure to sign an agreement with the BSAC. This forced the BSAC to use the Lozi. Unfortunately even the Colonial government which replaced the BSAC in running the affires of the country continued to treat the Lozi with special favour due to the old mining agreements. The British changed borders of Lozi land again and again.

  239. The Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland also known as Central African Federation (CAF) [1953 – 1963] pre-existed the Republic of Zambia, Zimbabwe and Malawi incorporated Barotseland and little wonder there was no such thing as Federation of Rhodesia, Nyasaland and Barotseland because Barotseland was rightfully part of Northern Rhodesia.

  240. Before 1900, Lewanika at one time protested to London and to Queen Victoria that the BSAC agents had misrepresented the terms of the concession, but his protests fell on deaf ears. Why??? It’s because he was in the first place chosen for convenience and was demanding what the British knew was not rightly his. They were the masters of deception. They had just used the Litunga. I’m told he came back from London crowned as a British Night and he still wears that spectacular British Uniform on the Kubombaka ceremony while the British just laugh at our naivety. We must be fools indeed.

  241. In 1900 Britain formally annexed the Barotse territory as a protectorate and governed it as part of North-Western Rhodesia. Britain created territories and marked boundaries thereof at will with little or no consent so whatever of the natives and reversed or modified such decisions whenever they wanted to expedite they interests.

  242. After 1897 the BSA Company administered the two Rhodesias, encouraging the immigration of white settlers with exaggerated tales of gold deposits. When these claims were proved to be overstated, settlers were encouraged as farmers. The British government manipulated everyone include its white citizens for the extension and proliferation of the British Rule.

  243. I understand the frustrations of my lozi brothers.theirs is a region by far the most backward of all regions in Zambia.But to correct that problem they have resorted to an agreement that was void ab initio.
    The Litunga bargained off land that was not his.and that alone voids the entire agreement in my opinion.If I stole my neighbours cars,do my grandchildren have the right to come claim any proceeds that may accrue from such a transaction.
    If anyting the litunga shud watch out for valid claims of restitution from chiefs of CB!

  244. Heeeey 274, why do you want every one to know your igorance in law? How do you compare land agreement to a stolen vihecle? dont you know that different agreements have got different forms.please try to read or revise more before we blem both your school and your lecturers.

    gudday

  245. May God pay you a price you deserve.May you receive what you want.As mature Zambians,the comments and decision you make now will determine the future of Zambia as a unitary state.May your country separate if it is a christian nation formed after the signing of the barotse agreement of 1964.But if formed it by your own undestanding,may it stand forever.Insulting the Litunga and the people of barotseland shows that you do not know God bocoz the same God you worship was in the Litunga and the lozis when he signed the agreement in 1964.The same God was in Moses and Aron when they led the children of Israel out of Egypt.

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