The technical committee on the drafting of the new constitution says concerns raised by international constitutional lawyers require action on them.
Two Zambian constitutional lawyers based outside the country have observed that the current constitution-making process is deeply flawed and unlikely to produce good results.
Law Professor Muna Ndulo and Dr Chaloka Beyan are among the people that were last week included in the Committee of Exerts drafting the constitution but just as consultants.
Committee spokesperson Simon Kabanda has explained to QFM radio that the committee is happy that the constitutional lawyers have raised a number of points in coming up with the new constitutions.
He says that it is a known fact that previously, Zambia failed to get a new constitution because of lack proper consultation.
Mr. Kabanda added that the committee will ensure that it takes the points raised by Prof. Ndulo and Dr. Beyani into consideration.
Prof. Ndulo and Dr. Beyani observed that the current constitution-making process was deeply flawed and may not produce good results.
In a joint statement, Professor Muna Ndulo and his UK-based counterpart Dr Chaloka Beyani stated that the option taken by the government was not ensure transparency.
The duo stated that the process had numerous flaws that made it difficult to come up with a people’s constitution.
“It is our considered view that the current constitution making process is deeply flawed and is unlikely to deliver a constitution that is legitimate and provides a framework for the democratic governance of Zambia. The primary flaws in the process are the following: (1) the process itself is inherently unrepresentative and suffers from a crisis of legitimacy; (2) it is ill designed to build consensus and produce a constitution the country can be proud of,” the two lawyers stated on Thursday.
QFM
The technical experts have been engaged on several technical committees all over the world; surely, they must have some kind of expertise! I believe they have acquired all the expertise to make a good constitution that will stand the test of time! Not PF’s, Not MMD, Not UPND and surely not even UNIP’s!
That is how the constitution is supposed to be , this is listening government, The two Proffessors, what they raised is good and the committee are listening already. thanks for including these two profs. viva PF
Can you then bring them on board instead of just having them as consultants pliz? We don’t want to be seen to be going round the circles as the PF Government as is the case with Street vending. I can imagine how Prof, Nkandu Luo is feeling after all the efforts she had put as a new minister. The president’s advisers are either to blame or HEMCS himself does not take advice, or he blushes everything he’s told.
Surely the 20 of you so called committee of experts could not realize that the process is flawed?
These lawyers want a JOB nothing else, so invite them not as consultants but part of the technical committee
And they thought could have the constitution in 90 days! Yes.
No one cares abut the Constitution, Zambia is a dirty unknown, less inspiring country and most of us the elite have decided to seek refuge elsewhere
There is nothing to talk about a country with only one known independent country and riddled with corruption makes me like throwing up when i read such headlines, Could some ass the puke bucket
I am off for dinner
Thanks
Kabanda obviously missed the point, what the lawyers actually meant is the comittee has to be reconstituted to produce any acceptable results. The composing process itself has to be through consensus.
‘Looking into it’ by the same comittee lacking legitimacy does not address the issue………IQ test for Mr Kabanda please!
No. 4 patambala, this matter is a serious matter; some of us will really be grateful if you could post serious issues on a life and death issue!. To claim Prof. Ndulo and Dr. Beyani’s simply want a job is simply being a simpleton. However, I am pleased that another serious advocate of the constitution, Committee spokesperson Simon Kabanda is on board fully on this matter. Bwana patambala, your deficiency in judgment staggers me, please keep your comments to yourself!
No 6 Mushota, please keep away from this subject in discussion; it is light years from your understanding!
Patambala I can assure you Prof Ndulo and Dr. Beyani do not need or want a job.
What a country! Full of thieves even satas commissions of equiry, committe of experts, his appointments, his 90days promise are stinking corruption. What will prevent others from prosecuting him when he leaves office better die while serving than face the wrath of the pipo
this is the weakness with zambian journalism. this story is not conveying anything. you can’t just say the process is flawed just because a source said. what are the flaws being alluded to by the lawyers? you’re writing something that conveys nothing but it’s own aridity. there are two things, the author is either writing for him/herself or doesn’t understand the topic.
So much was spent on this exercise, So much information is already in place from previous commissions on the constitution. The next cost will be even higher than what Kunda and his team misused. How much more, how much more will you educated corrupt heads need to make the constitution? You want to hide in any thing and every thing just to steal from ordinary Zambians! The so much you put in your stomachs can build bridges, dual carriages from Lusaka to other provintial head quarter, clinics, hospitals, schools colleges, employ more teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc. Why are we so daft to only trust these trick stars. They will spend two years yet just changing sentences without adding anything other than what Zambians have already submitted. Come on everyone you have eyes but you don’t see!
Did the professors provide a way out of the problem? Every problem needs a solution. And the best people to recommend a solution are those that have pointed out the problem. I stand to be corrected, but my own opinion is that we had Lawyers in the failed NCC; they never came up with a good constitution. Now, we have a new team that will look at the previous documentation so that they can recommend the way forward. Looking at the issue objectively, one needs to balance the available resources amidst the many needs of Zambia. If these lawyers are professionals, let them say the way forward amidst the contraints Zambia has. We had MMD for 20 years; they never came up with anything; now we have PF and in 90Days they have come up with a flawed process; good for them;
#14 continued: Because once we correct the flawed process, we can can get a document we need. Lads in Engineering, we believe in performance, implementation and real results. Our friends are more worried about the “process”. But the goal is the same: we need a workable document we all can rely on. Except most of us are so fadeup with Law!! All they is talk, talk, and talk, nothing tangible comes up. Yes you may also be dissapointed that even Engineers are useless because they oversaw the corruption at RDA, i totally agree. Can we please move the document forward at a least cost possible? Can we? For God’s sake, what a country!! Deads not words bakabwa!!
#13: Floyd Chitalu: Many thanks!! Well said. Thanks, thanks!!
The professors suggested a way forward, yes,their main issue was the whole ‘process’ should start with some level of agreement from variuos stakeholders. So the comittee according to them needed to be made through agreement by civil society NOT what happened where one unschooled monkey picked all the committte members. That was deemed absolutely unacceptable.
True; the unschooled monkey who appointed the committe member was elected by all monkeys that felt monkey strategy was the best way for Zambia. The sooner you accept that the less likelihood that you will die from heart attack. Call him names, we love him absolutely because he has achieved what schooled human beings have failed to do, and that is lead a nation.
Cant agree with you more on the Monkey. Heart attack? I will choose to cut on cholesterol and reduce body weight instead. Thanks for the advice, but no thanks, lets where loving the monkey leads you anyweay.
@Simba Andeke:
Cut the bull sh!t, will you? Wow!!!!!!
Yamabayamba, dont tell me you are equally in love with the monkey in question.
we cannot put all learned lawyers in the making of our constitution,if today were are to include the two lawyers in the technical committee.few weeks from now other/another lawyer/s will raise another geniune issue,so are we going to also put them/h,r,m in the committee of experts,to me the two lawyers have a great role to play because they are already consultants and they should write to the experts before going to the media about their concerns,they are already in the system.not all pipo will be please with the committee but by the end of june majority of us will be more happier than we are today because they draft const will give us hope.
#7 Simba Andeke, you have hit the nail on the head, spot on. What the two legal experts said is that the new process has no legal backing, the members were hand picked by the president, and the constitution is subject to his and only his approval. How many times are we going to be conned by these politicians? In any case there is already a perfect draft from NCC which only failed because of political egos and agendas by PF, UPND, Catholic Church and party cadre Musa Mwenye (also known as LAZ). Now PF want support when they did not render their support to others for a straight forward matter, theirs was to do the opposite of whatever their ruling colleagues were doing, including supporting restoration of Barotse Agreement within 90 days!
The job of consultant is to create artificial delays so they keep on getting consulting fees.. So these clever Consultants (lawyers) want the process to start from zero. Why issue a ‘joint’ statement as if they’re providing ‘consulting’ as an entity.?!!?. Having worked with big consulting companies myself, i’m not suprised to hear this. I guranntee u if these lawyers were part of the team they wouldn’t have said this, they would have provided answers and Not a catalogue of questions.
This is a mature response. Instead of telling off the two professors for washing linen in public you just incorporate them. The two are loudmouths but I guess Democracy is founded on a lot of lip. Ndulo should perhaps have been chairman so responsibility could have zipped his wanton nature. But let’s have a constitution with less sh*t than previously.
@ 7: What this man does not seem to grasp is that he and his group are illegal, so what are they going to correct? Quote from the constitutional lawyers – “The primary flaws in the process are the following: (1) the process itself is inherently unrepresentative and suffers from a crisis of legitimacy; (2) it is ill designed to build consensus and produce a constitution the country can be proud of,” This administration runs the risk of spending colossal amounts on this process only to have it thrown out by parliament on some legal technicality (just as they walked out last House).
The whole process seems disfunctional – Technical committee needs technical advice.
I want to applaud all the bloggers so far not commenting on #6.
They meant that, the team is not capable of not delivery………..they should change the team
By the way, Happy Holiday to my fellow bloggers. I enjoy both negative and positive contributions …I call it unit in diversity…stay blessed…
The best costitution is the one that puts food on the table of the many poor people of Zambia, not a piece of paper that empowers a few rich guys.
I posted on this matter. As an engineer with very limited legal knowledge the learned Prof’s have vindicated me. Under the current laws of Zambia, no provision of a Technical Committee to produce a constitution is available. In short this so called TC is illegal. Mr Kabamba seems to have very limited understanding of what the Prof’s have said. How is he going to correct an illegal committee?
I quote from the Prof’s, ” the process itself is inherently unrepresentative and suffers from a crisis of legitimacy”
This constitution will never be adopted and is another waste of money. Sata knows it and it is a sure way of wasting time as he knows the new constitution aims to limit the presidential powers
The Prof has said it all;”the process itself is inherently unrepresentative and suffers from a crisis of legitimacy”.
Bishop Chihana said the same when he referred to him as ‘a G7 Night School pupil from Mpika Primary School’. This is just another waste of tax payer dollars.
Thinking outside the box, maybe this is one of the reasons some countries like here in Britain, do not have a written down constitution per se. It seems the sea of details to be considered and the extent of consultations required (in local languages too) to reach consensus is daunting. And what are the measurables i.e. how is consensus defined in this case? However, on balance if we are to keep our theiving and lying politicians in check its better to have a flawed constitution than none. Lets call it work in progress since as a matter of fact there is no such thing as a one off constitution that will stand the test of time in the real world. The only constant is change
There is no constitution that stands the test of time without undergoing amendments. Having said this, our goal this time is to consolidate work done by other commissions and come up with a workable constitution which will serve as a framework for any foreseable amendments. We should all understand that not everybody will be satified with the whole content of the constitution. Going forward, closes that require amending must be voted on by the electorate at determined time such as when elections are being conducted. For now, we should not waste a lot of time bickering. It is time for us to move foward.
The President appointed all the members of the Committee without consulting Parliament or other stakeholders, and set the terms of reference for the team, again without consultation. The government is the one to receive the final document and presumably propose the final changes to the constitution. All these are decisions that need the full participation of all stakeholders and yet were taken without the participation of the other stakeholders. (WD 25/12/2012)
The issues raised by the eminent lawyers is cardinal to the constitutional making process. PF govt should own it up and request Modus Operandi from the two lawyers with immense experience in this process. The success of this will accrue to PF govt and its up to PF govt to own up and agree to work on the terms proposed by them. As said before, its not PF govt to come up with a constitution that will stand the test of times. Its the Zambians to come up with one based on consensus aparently also stated by the lawyers that all data was already collected in previous commissions. They also believe that a time limit need to be made to this processs and number of committee members be redused for effectiveness but that all stake holders be involved including gender dimension. Hope PF will consent
Just put up whatever you can with your catholic priest, it will be done later propery In 2016.constitution is not like naming airports it’s a daunting task.
What are the flaws in the process? What is the solution? The answer to those questions should be the story, not what you have above.
To be taken to the peak of a very high mountain and be shown all kingdoms of the earth seems to spring from the notion that the earth is small and flat. Climbing high enough makes it possible for one to see the entire midget earth. Why did Jesus make such a claim? It diminishes my faith. Bigotry is believing in what you first loved even when new facts are presented to you. The PF lied to the people of Zambia during the election-winning campaigns and its time for us to accept corrections.
Iam proud of these two garrant Tonga bull intellectuals, They have told These Bemba thugs who want to route our coffers the trueth , fun enough these fools can’t read in between lines that actually they are being told that u thugs u have no right to be there why have 3 bishops and not get a pastor like imakando etc. these are not hungry professors u can fool they have been consultants To AU, Kenya, etc they are not hungry Kolwestans
Prof. Ndulo and Dr. Beyani are writing as Zambians. They have never agreed to be consultants . They are only showing the flaws in the set up of this expert committee. Why should the president appoint members to the committee? This shows that the members will tilt the constitution in favor of the person who appointed them. Common sense.These two professors are established and are in demand all over the world. They are not looking for jobs.
Its good the exp0erts are making contributions and the Committee of Experts is also eager to listen and take the suggestions into account.
I noted the two recommended a team of not more than nine people. They went further to emphasise the need for representativeness “reflecting gender and our national diversity”, then they advised inclusion of two foreign experts and two political scientists, already five positions taken. How would the appoitning authority ensure he meets the representativess within remaining for, taking into account regional balance. I hopw they will understand why the current team stands at 20, it is not too big, in my view!!
The whole process was hijacked by the appointing athority hence risks going through the same fate as NCC if anything PF will make this one and the next govt will have another
Manje aka ka Mushota is she normal the way she writes she doesnt realise that its God who greated Zambia and the same God created her
The problem is that the so called technical committee was chosen on the basis of tribe. If you are not bemba forget, these two guys are professionals who deserved to be in the committee but its like tribe mattered most. God help Zambia.
For once I agree with #7 Mushota’s saying that “Zambia is a dirty unknown, less inspiring country”. Me too feel like vomiting when I visit most parts of Lusaka. with Sata’s directive for more street trading, the county is is even less inspiring. that’s why most people with brains are in diaspora.
Metals spoke! The are real legal birds playing main stream law in da first world!
I agree with Developer at #31, we dont need a constitution that is static but dynamic to meet the needs of this age. The const needs to be amended for betterment not to reduce it. if what has been collected since chona, mvunga, mwanakatwe and mungomba is the peoples view, let it be. we dont want some sichopeti man to say we need a const that acknowledges gayism and you want to call this equitable human rights?
This constitution rhetoric is so expensive and time wasting.I have an offer to get a Q7 AUDI or BMW X6,am stuck on choice,i love the X6 but i need to surrender my 2005 Rover sport which ?my kids loves fondly.Anybody with data on the Q7 perfomance?
well done 2 barotse`s tonga bright men than the so called kabanda.those guys thot it was gud constitution to turndown the BRE submissions.in fact,the 2 proffs should lead the whole procss not the tribally chosen dull bemba kabanda.haaaa haaa,those are two bright men mwanaa.there are many more like them outside the contri becoz thay can not take the shit taking place in zed.zed is pathetic.we no longa want to be associated with it.its now shameful to called zambian.
These Tonga professors are making my Bemba tribes mate appear as though they have never been to school worse off this is a big slap on the face of Of Sata for sure the committee lucks representation as it is full of people from one region am so embarrassed that these two tonga intellectuals seem to be more wiser than the 20 experts if I was Sata I will close canisius, hilcrest,st Raphaels,naboye,mukasa, njase andst demands these are schools which produce the best Brian’s in southern province so we can be at par with our Bemba schools
as kabanda said,prof muna Ndulo & Dr Beyani are just some of the people to be consulted,the rest are,Prof Chuma Himonga,Prof Michelo Hansungule,Gladys Mutukwa,John Sangwa,Hon Chief Justice Chalskerson of South Africa(TRD) and Hon Chief Justice Matthew Ngulube.Its a good team of consultants to be honest non of these really needs a job.
just how is the technical committee taking the two professors comment on board?
pipo shud be very objective in discussing this matter.the two have identified the problems which need to be addressed.
Mushota if you look down under yourself there, that is dirt. Zambia is a good country and an envy of most people and countries. Your lack of understanding of the country is what is playing in your mind, coupled with your lack of basic intelligence.
By the way Mushota what is on the menu for you dinner? Is it Angus pie or something more complicated than that?
the two are the real experts. the appointed committee has failed to see what the two have seen.
I guess Sata does not even appreciate the advice from Ndulo and Beyani. This is what happens when a country is led by an ignorant president. Zambia is headed for a ditch!
I am not sure what all the excitment is about. The two professors’ views on the constitutionsl roadmap is consistent with what is being proposed in this case. As intelligent bloggers, what is different?
don’t pay attention to utterances of shallow minded people like mushota
Muna Ndulo and Chaloka Beyan I want the Zambians not to listen to these 2 stoogies if they really cared about Zambia we should have seen them come live in Zambia, contribute sacrifice to see the development of a Country, These two guys are cry babies because no one recognized them in the making of the National Constitution.The President and His team had consulted before they appointed the technical constitution team.Forget about Ndulo and Chaloka
Head line should read;
Technical committee fails to understand Prof. Ndulo and Dr. Beyani’s concerns.
Watchdog is foolish. These esteemed experts are internationally known and work in other countries but they are still Zambian. I bet Watchdog would jump at the chance to get a British or American passport and leave Zambia. We cannot all live in Zambia, but these two are deeply involved in what is happening in our country. Who would want to live under Sata?