A political Analyst has said that the people of Western Province need to understand the Implications of the content of the Barotseland Agreement. Dr. Alex Ng’oma has told QFM News that the boundaries of the Barotseland go beyond some of Zambia’s borders and has wondered how possible it will be for the people of western province to claim the land in such countries.
Dr Ng’oma who is also a political scientist at the University of Zambia notes that the issue of the Barotseland Agreement is a very sensitive matter which will need to be handled carefully by the parties involved as failure to do so may result in anarchy.
Dr. Ng’oma adds that while the people of western province have a good cause with regards the issue of the Barotseland, there is nowhere in the Agreement where secession is mentioned. He has also urged government to ensure that there is dialogue on the matter to rectify the mistakes that could have been made at the time the Barotseland Agreement was being signed.
Dr Ng’oma has since advised the government to listen to the people of western province on the matter.
Former MMD National Secretary Katele Kalumba said that emotions should not take centre stage in finding an amicable solution on the Barotseland agreement of 1964. Dr. Kalumba has stated that history has molded the Barotseland and the rest of Zambia into one country and that session should not be an option.
He stated that the challenges faced in western province are visible and that it is important that stakeholders look into that. Dr Kalumba says such challenges can be resolved through a budget formula that accommodates some of the developmental challenges faced in western province.
And the Non Governmental Organisation Coordinating Council urge the concerned parties to the Barotseland agreement, the government, the Barotseland Royal Establishment and the people of Western Province, to guide the nation and provide leadership on the matter by resolving the issue amicably and engaging in dialogue through an independent arbitration team in order to bring in level headness to the deliberation.
NGOCC Board Chairperson Beatrice Grillo in a statement released to QFM News said that as the women’s movement they want to place on record that the Mongu riots and killings should not be repeated in the history of Zambia.
Ms Grillo said this is more so given the negative aspects that arise from any conflict where mostly women and children face the brunt of violence. She said that NGOCC urges for serious and urgent dialogue on the matter and that this will require open mindedness by all parties.
She added that the socio-economic challenges at the centre of the stand-off should be a motivator for well meaning advancement of the right to development. Ms Grillo said this must be seen from a broader perspective of moving the country forward.
She further states that NGOCC stands ready to be a part of the dialogue process and will mobilize its members on the ground to bring to the table the real issues that must preoccupy the deliberations.
He says in all this there is need not to forget to embrace solidarity and the One-Zambia, One-Nation spirit that Zambia has nurtured and guarded for long since independence.
And Get Involved Zambia Executive Director Father Bwalya has said that Zambians are praying that through dialogue the issues surrounding the Barotseland agreement will be resolved amicably.
And Father Bwalya has advised the Zambian government and the Barotseland Royal Establishment not to base their dialogue on media reports. Father Bwalya said that relying on media reports, some of which are misleading, will not help resolve the matter.
He said that it is important that the two parties dialogue and maintain Zambia’s status as a unitary state. In an interview with QFM, Father Bwalya stated that people of western province and the rest of the Zambian people have become one people, saying secession might not be the best option.
QFM
dubula wena…..police stop harassing seccessionists…..the guys live in lusaka and are calling for a workshop in Siavonga!
Well said Doc…. its good that it is come out let it be discussed (BA 1964) thoroughly so next generation of rebels does not erupt…dialogue is the way forward with peace in mind. Africa needs to settle down bondate Silozi
Government has been well advised on the matter by a cross section of society. However, I am reluctant to believe that government is heeding this advice at all. I think what I see are warn and cautions here and there, implying that there is no real headway on the matter. I would be surprised to hear a progressive way forward on Barotseland issue. But yet again, who knows?
would you like government to react & arrest them? coz what they have comitted is treason already & as such, have broken the law of the land! but government is patient enough, its giving the BRE time
take heed u morons,never take peace for granted!your stiupid sinyinda was a minister before & now that he is broke,he is started living in a dream.barotse nonsense!
Is this the Dr Ng’oma who was caught stealling ballot papers in South Africa? His satement is very misleading. I pity the students that the guy teaches. The Barotse Agreement of 1964 was between the BRE and Northen Rhodesia and was the basis for Zambia`s independence, and Zambia`s unitary State. Dr Ng’oma, the BA1964 did not include any other country, it was between BRE and Northen Rhodesia. Unless Dr Ng’oma is saying Northern Rhodesia comprised other countries.The biggest problem in Zambia is that leaders like living in denial. There is nothing wrong in admitting that BA1964 is real and legal. Then find a smart way of resolving the issue. The truth is as long as this issue is not sorted out, it will continue popping up.
ZAMBIANS BELIEVE IN UNITY
i thi
nk thats why africa has many nations compared to other continents. and if at all the brothers and sisters dont get the advice THey are being given then another biafra is in sight. Its better to loose a million men than a metre of land. And if it continues just ban the lstunga and strip him of his powers, he is the centre of all these chaos. What comes of wongo to justify it getting a lions share of the national cake, nothing even northwestern is not developed but they have mines there contributing to the national coffers.
The fact that the marriage certificate doe not have an expiry date or indeed divorce clause does not mean yu cant divorce. I wish to advise the Lozis to carefully consider their options and weigh the implications of each option. I wish they could decide o remain within the unit state BUT also that rules that govern the sharing of power in he country are put in place to please all tribes. Peace without justice is fragile!
This BA agreement of 1964 seems esoteric and shrouded in the political murky waters of presidential candidates using its content as a ruse to garner votes of the Lozis.Dr Ngoma’s argument of Barotse lands in other countries sounds kitsch.Across africa there’s countless tribal lands accros two or more states and it hasn’t been an issue.The BA agreement has its own unique set of circumstances and needs to be seen in that light.Such agreements always breed cause for separation even after many yrs.The Scots are seeking independence from UK after 300 yrs,the Quebecois are seeking independence from Canada and many others.The key is to approach it in an amicable manner and,preferably, maintaining Zambia as a unitary state but with more resources availed to the neglected province.
Very true.
@Blago.You’re crazy indeed.Don’t u know that the Barotse Bondaries covers Angola,Namimbia,Botswana,Congo and Zimbabwe?Do u know what happened to the Lozis in Namimbia when they started succession Nonsense.most of them have died in prison and still roting in prison.This is why some people are talking nonsense coz they don’t understand anything about barotse.In addition to that when did lozi people conquire southern,N/western,CB,parts of central and Luapula(Bangweulu area).Some Zambians are ignorant especially Bantusatan who think they will be given positions in barotse.Anyway it’s non starter.No country will support yo nonsense.If it were only in Zambia maybe Angola rebels would have sponsored u but it also affects angola.Continue dreaming.
@ bashi kay How do you straight up start using such abusive language? You are the same characters that fuelling up the already tensile situations. Such strong words are themselves a recipe for anarchy. How would you feel calling your tribesmen “morons”. Lets be level headed even as we discuss such sensintive issues. God bless!
Both Doctors and father Bwafya are failed individuals. Some people should just learn to keep quiet to shield their idiocy. Dr my foot! I dont actually support these Lozis too but the commentators are soiled. In fact all of them are Bembas. Just leave the Lozi people alone. They will come back on their own when there bellies are full of sand. ONE ZAMBIA.ONE NATION.
Plz its time to stop insults,I believe,if GRZ can peacefully restore or let Barotseland go we shall remain enjoy our peace.but if you resort to sweep the BA64 under the carpet then u are doing more damage to our so called peace even though it seems to be not exsisting.As i see this and the Barotse generation to come will still concider this treaty as valid and demand its effection.Therefore i only see few answers-(a)Restoration(b)Disengage Barotseland(c)sweep undercarpet-*and this one is problem multiplied*
This Ng’oma is really small-minded or wants a PF job. If Northern Rhodesia unified with Barotseland that included parts of other countries, why did Zambia not demand control over those parts of Angola. Namibia, Bots and Zimbabwe??????? Just get your brain working a bit sometimes instead of knee-jerk blabbering.
all the serguestion above are very right, the direction that these poeple are pointing to is the right way to go… Viva Zambia.
@BASHI KAY
You Pathetic Fascist, you are a bitter hater, a tribalist. Get a life, you troll!
@ #9 You are wrong. The Barotse agreement does not include boundaries in other countries other than the current boundaries of Zambia. If it were true that the Boundaries of Barotseland included Angola, Zimbabwe, Namibia etc, Zambia would have included those areas as you know Zambia is a creation of Barotseland and Northern Rhodesia. In my opinion this is a futile argument. The issue is honoring the B464 agreement and not the nonsense of Boundaries. This was never addressed in the agreement and it has never been an issue.
litunga should only have ceremonial roles. in uganda the kabaka of the buganda is in that capacity and there is no such nosense. Ok lets restore the barotse borders of 1964 which kaonde lamba lunda luvale etc and other tribes in the barotse map will be subservient to the litunga. PLEASE dont jump in the water if you cant swim. your chances of succeding in having your chiefdom are very slim.you will never win either by the ballot or the bullet.and it will just make the populace to start stereotyping the lozis, where will nyambe mulenga go.Thats just blackmail and thinking you willl attract attention from the BRITS there no nothing of economic political or otherwise for them to get involved,so far no one has come to your side except yourselves sorry think hard and long.
guys take heart and lets hear what they will say
Cage Sinyinda
imwe, can you define the actual boundaries weather its current western province which is synonymous with barosteland or within the current zambia we had a chunk called barosteland controlled by litunga. if the original barosteland encampuses areas like northwestern cb, central, southern and lusaka provinces, where the chiefs of those days made aware that litunga is there king?
we had western rhodesia which comprises most of cb, part of luapula near bangweulu entire north western and western, central and southern provinces more or less divided by the rail line that spans copperbelt to livingstone though part of luapula was included. eastern, northern and luapula provinces where north eastern rhodesia. so the merger was between western rhodesia and north eastern rhodesia to make the then northern rhodesia and from here now we had southern rhodesia and nyasaland making the biggest british protectorate. with the portuguese on the west, the timid lewanika signed treaties with the bsa just for protection purposes and the BA64 was born. honestly speaking no chief from northwestern cb central southern or lusaka province was included in the 1 man signing. we will see!
Anti Kaponya how dare you call another person a fascist?You have been in the forefront of people stirring up trouble by your tunnel mindednessand you have the balls to point at someone trying to make sense?
The British ruled a unitary Northern Rhodesia as one country, which had many paramount chiefs. Chiefdoms were exactly that: traditional empires whicvh in some cases, as Gawa Undi extended beyond the territorial confines of the “country”.
Traditional enclaves can not be equated to political/Government authority.
The Ngonis fought with the British and reached a settlement. They can not now claim political control over their territory. This was ceded to the Government of the day,.
There is nowhere in History, politically, geographically to suggest Barotseland was ever a country on its own.
Let the monarchist learn from the British arrangement of separation of roles. The Litunga is not a Government. He is a traditional leader like all other traditional leaders in Zambia.
Hear, hear! Couldn’t have put it better myself.
Chidakwa, well said brother. Whilst most of us are advocating for peace, this one tribe which does not ncluding, the nkoyas, mbundas, luvales, etc balefwaya ukulila ichalo chonse amasuku pamutwe. Like I have said before, I have been to war ravaged countries such as Angola and war however one’s reasons is not good at all. I hope they can learn from the Hutu/tutsi conflicts in Rwanda and Burundi, except only this time, their dealing with 72 other tribes that are just as prepared to go to war to preserve the peace and unity we have so far enjoyed.
looking at the map of barotseland,it includes many other tribes.the BA was signed among others “for the pipo of barotseland”do you lozis think you are the only pipo of barotseland?that secession declaration has 2 lozi signatures.Where do you leave the other tribes?NGAMBELA AND TEAM,YOU ARE DISGUSTING,MALANGA AMINA!
This so called political analyst has misled himself. The BA64 revolves around the current Western Province of Zambia no more, no less. Suggestions that the borders of Barotseland extend beyond Western Province are a mirage. If the Nkoyas who are within Western Province are not willing to be part of Barotseland how will the ethnic groups that are not part of that Province agree to be under the Litunga? May be the Tongas who are cousins to the Lozis will agree but not the rest.
good show doc.
The government can start by renaming Western Province to it original name Barosteland, the renaming of the area was also a problem. The political bounderies of Barosteland did not stretch to other areas beyond the present beyond Zambia, what stretches over until now is the traditional jurisidiction of the Litunga to other Lozi’s based in Namibia, but they were not part of the Barosteland Agreement, the land was annexed by the Germany during the scrubble for Africa. The current political bounderies recognised by both the AU and United Nations are colonial bounderies. Whe people talk about Barosteland, people are talking about colonial bounderies, that informed the bounderies of all African Countries apart from Ethopia.
‘I like the old geography books,’ said the nostalgic political scientist, ‘with it’s pretty colours and all those border disputes inherited at independence.’
‘Is that your strategy?’ asked the chess player. ‘coz the next move from that is stalemate…you strategists call no progress…still negotiating.’
The BRE issue is now ‘ he said, she said ‘i was misquoted’ and bra bra bra … everyone is an expert..I say this is time wasting. .. Litunga must go to GRZ with ideas on how to turn sand into fibre glass, fibre optics and how to enhance agric in the area.. then GRZ can compliment his efforts… I suppose it me be hard to work from Mongu if u not lozis right now..
No one is explicit on the boundaries. Can someone please show us. Is it just the districts in western province ?? Further more were the chiefs in the claimed areas aware that they were under the Litunga???????
Good morning
I have ingested so much of this subject now that I’m not even quite sure if any debate is worth joining any more. However, I believe it is our patriotic call of duty to rise to the occasion and speak out for peace and unity in our country at every occasion and that is why I shall continue propounding until the enemies are confounded.
Seeing that the implications of secession go beyond our national borders, it equally blows my mind how the secessionists hope to restore their Agreement. They don’t seem to consider any perspective other than their own. It is this stubbornness that will eventually break their neck. Whether they like it or not, Zambia is the name of the republic.
A piece of advice to the Litunga: when you’re in a hole, STOP digging!
Lozis need to change their attitude towards other people, the so called ‘manyuku nyuku’ if that province is ever to see any meaningful development.
Good morning
I have ingested so much of this subject now that I’m not even quite sure if any debate is worth joining any more. However, I believe it is our patriotic call of duty to rise to the occasion and speak out for peace and unity in our country at every occasion and that is why I shall continue propounding until the enemies are confounded.
Seeing that the implications of secession go beyond our national borders, it equally blows my mind how the secessionists hope to restore their Agreement. They don’t seem to consider any perspective other than their own. It is this stubbornness that will eventually break their neck. Whether they like it or not, Zambia is the name of the republic.
A piece of advice to the Litunga: when you’re in a hole, STOP digging!
You have witten so much , what are saying?
So are we saying the Barotse is western Province or it covers part of Luapula,Cb,Luska,Southern,N/w and parts of Central?If the answer is Barotse covers the other five provinces?Can Lozis explain how they conqured other Chiefs apart from Coward tongas who were beaten and their cattle,women,properties etc were stolen by Lozis.Because i’ve never seen any coward in zambia apart from Tongas who just support smthing they will never enjoy.How can a tribe try to be under one tribe?Ha ha ha ha Tonga chiefs are the most cowards on this earth.As far as i know Lamba land was not colonized by Litunga.Let him state the boudaries of barotse otherwise saying CB is part of Barotse under litunga will make Lozis cry in CB.This is not a joke coz it too much.If it’s western P we can talk but———?
I was born in Barotseland, but went to school outside in Northern Rhodesia. I recall when we used to go on holidays to Mongu before independence, when we reached the Kafue River the Bus Driver for Central African Road Service, “CARS” would announce that now we are entering Barotseland. If Barotse boundary started after crossing the Kafue river in the game back at 1963, it is not possible that Barotse boundaries would have been extended at 1964 during time of signing. Those that insinuate so from Lozi communities and outside are just hell bent on creating confusion. In fact during Kaundas days early 1970s’ the Boundary of Barotseland was further shifted when the province was named Western Province, from when taking away the Kafue game park completetly approaching Tobacco Board.
The size of Barotseland does not even matter. Nowhere in the agreement is there a provision for secession, the agreement just dictates a system of land administration and local governance that is mid-evil at best. Its a shame that some people dont feel Zambian.
It has been stated time and time again that the BA64 was not about secesion but coming together of Barotseland and Northern Rhodesia. I am an example of many other Lozis who went to school in Northern Rhodesia before independence and our parents naturally worked in Northern Rhodesia. So BA64 or no BA64 I don’t see why a Lozi should not be allowed to work in Zambia or a Bemba in Barotse if before independence there was already such movement and interaction. It is best to address the BA64 as it is instead of fueling tribal hatred and anarchy, there will be no winners. We Zambians have always been a model and beacon of peace,solidarity and true Love incomperable in Africa. When the people of Barotseland are complaining let us litsen to them, similarly when the people of Northern or Southern
Cool down,peace,peace pipo.our leaders are not insulting.Truth of a matter Barotseland was a Nation for this one no matter how dull someone is must know it by now.Then our part is to wait and see wat our leaders can agree on.But true story is BAROTSELAND IS GETTING ITS FREEDOM,we can talk even for a century but this will not change!!
Pencils and rulers were used to ‘carve the African turkey’. The political strategist oops scientist is unaware BA64 is a stand alone document? Might as well say ‘Rhodesia’ was bigger than the embryo. Funnily enough it could have been but those European fellas fought and negotiated it to the current shape. Remember Rhodes was ‘given’ Zed and Zim, wanted Katanga and so those treaties with chiefs was mere game play. I still chuckle that at one point they wanted to deport Litunga to London for not playing ball. God bless Zed.
There are some Barotseland issues which will need sorting out:
– The Litunga’s sphere of influence (Barotseland borders) is purported to include other neighbouring countries. The BA64 was signed with Northern Rhodesia without stating the bounderies of Barotseland.
– The Barotseland question affects our neighbours and some of whom have taken a more heavy handed approach than us. GRZ would have to tread carefully in order not to be seen as a source of regional instability.
– The BA64 was signed by BRE, NRG and the UK, therefore, BNC which has declared a dispute is not party to the BA64. Legal minds would need to unravel that fine mess.
The other positives people ignore about the earlier agreements before the BA64 is the fact that the area under Lewanika was no go for slave traders, it is there in history books and documented by early settlers. It is interesting to note that in fact other areas without mentioning provinces sold their own people to the Arabs and Portuguese during the same era. We do not seem to explore much the positives of the arrangement including safe-guarding the copperbelt which would have fallen to the Belgians and would have now become part of katanga or Zaire. The British South African company transformed the copperbelt, can you see what it is now etc mines by Chinese no trickle-down effect to the local communities. The Britist created mass employment, infrastructure, recreation clubs etc.
What do understand one thing can someone please educate me. Northern Rhodesia and barotseland come together to make a unitary State called Zambia. So Zambia was made up of the Two and the two governed together with representation from all over the new Zambia. “Zambian government” abrogated the agreement! Who was Zambia? not both Northen Rhodesia and Barotseland?? Was it Zambia or an Individual? Please someone Educate me
Mic… I see your point of view. You are trying to say because Barotseland was part of this new unitary thing called Zambia, therefore Barotseland is part of the abrogation – i.e. abrogation can’t be blamed on Northern Rhodesia alone. Fair enough.
However, if you read the Agreement, you would understand that the responsibility was placed on ‘Zambia’ to allow Barotseland have some autonomy the Litunga administer land rights over his people.
Abrogation was really executed by KK and his govt. who was an accessory to the Agreement and he represented Northern Rhodesia at the time. The Zambian govt did abrogate the agreement to answer your question.
@CHIDAKWA
Please show us a copy of the agreement that the Ngonis entered into with the British. Please post a link to the website or reference.
@PIPPA
Because people like you insulting Lozis are behaving like fascists who started by labelling Jews and then proceeded to annihilate them throughout Europe. How can somebody call a whole ethnic group “morons” or “selfish” or “greedy”? What sense is in that? This is a precursor to genocide. Or do you want to be called a Hutu? Would that make you happy?
@Mic – for simplicity’s sake my take is within that one unitary state the BA64 is clear about the role of the former Barotseland within the state and that end of the deal was kinda tossed out the window a few years in to independence hence the start of this ‘complexity’. Hope that helps.
@Zozi – good points. I like to think along the line when this issue becomes a past settlement we will begin to look at ALL our histories together and start to applaud the positives from the many tribes within our borders. Wars are tedious. There were creative, scientific, cultural, social, medical, artistic and purely beautiful things amongst the peoples that are yet to be documented, recorded and saved for prosperity. This is my area of interest and how I intend to give back for the national good.
Rubbish! This is yet another PF steward masquerading as an independent thinking Doctor. If the government’s game plan is to try and mislead the unsuspecting people through lies and arguments of borders as a bargaining solution to this issue, they are in for a rude shock. That argument is really weak. The Agreement never discusses any borders of either Northern Rhodesia or Barotseland.
Ask yourself which two areas joined to form Zambia and where are the boundaries of those two areas? This is ridiculous, it’s almost saying like Zambia extends to other countries. If the present Barotseland extends to other countries, why hasn’t Zambia claimed those areas yet? So if Zambia hasn’t claimed those other areas, how can a portion that makes up Zambia claim them?
And why is Zambia concerned that Barotseland will claim part of other countries? Why don’t you let those countries deal with such claims by the nation of Barotseland? When did Zambia start caring about the consequences of Barotseland claiming other countries’ land? The Ngambela said publicly that they would never claim anything outside Western Province, so why twist things.
This stuff is isn’t for people with small brains who can’t see simple issues. This is no kids’ stuff. For your info the borders being used as a bargain tool to stop this idea are those archaic borders preceding colonial times. Those borders were drawn by the extend of one’s tribe’s influence – how far they could conquer and how far their fighting influences extends.
The earlier a tribe settled in an area and the stronger their army, the wider the area they would claim. Think Shaka and the Zulu Nation. But after the scramble for Africa, the boundaries were redrawn to the present countries making Africa. Today the Zulus wouldn’t claim anything outside their Kwa Zulu Natal
As for seceding, you can’t have it both ways – either you honour the bloody Agreement in its entirety or the two countries don’t have anything that binds them together. I don’t understand why honouring this agreement is so difficult. After all the Litunga already enjoys semi-autonomy anyway. It’s my understanding Kwa Zulu Natal enjoys some kind of autonomy in S/A, while remaining a province of that country.
#43,44, dont forget that the same Zambia sent you here weather you have a mombusho scholarship or not. atleast think properly. have u studied law? no wonder it was difficult to reverse chilubas immunity becoz no one thought of a reversal clause. tell the lusaka times audience what actually comprises barosteland? i have my relatives scattered over all zambia and today some chap who has enjoyed comes and says am fed up. where was sinyinda all these years? has his eyes just opened up? mind you the signatories in the BA64 are the BRE and NRG and not the BNC and so what ever the BNC passes has no effect since they are/were not party to the signing.sha
Bashi Kay,
Munungu wa maho ni ndataho Barotseland is ours
Musike mwa lwaha Bo Nyambe.. matapa atusi.
Insults and emotions defeats the purpose of your arguments; and it clouds your judgement. Let’s adopt a civility approach so we can differentiate ‘ourselves’ from ‘them’.
Trust me this idea will never die – some of us haven’t even started participating in the idea fully and we are many of us. When the right time comes, we will join.
The political analyst here is is behaving like a rat.Even Kalumba himself is behaving like a rat.He is biting the Lozis directly but advising dialogue among the parties involved.Sexual behaviour psychology does not in anyway match with intellectualism
@25, Cawards:
If I understand you correctly, you seem to have more faith in the architects of the Colonial masters and exploiters than in the agreement fashioned by our own African forefathers which brought about a unitary country we all now enjoy as our own. Why is that? To you, the political/economic machinations of the Germans, British, and Portuguese are to be believed and worshiped more than an agreement fashioned by our own freedom loving pan-Africanists in the names of Kenneth Kaunda, Mwanawina, and whoever the Litunga of the day was.
These people had foresight and vision for what Zambia could become as unified country. They saw that it made more sense to unite as a single country and chart our own destiny as there is always power and strength in numbers and unity!
conti…from #53
By the way, I am not sure how well Lozis as a whole fared under the Lochner agreement. Other than a few Royals who got a free ticket to a Western education, who else benefited from the declaration of Barotseland? Lozis infact have done quite well under the BA64 considering the fact that most Lozis who are now unhappy with this arrangement probably got their free education under KK and the BA64. Mind you, colonials didn’t like educated “Karfers” (sp)!
Zero Option!
Nice try, no I wasn’t sent by Zambia to go and study “there”… not at all! So we have put that one to bed.
Nope, never studied law and I don’t the clauses, or the lack of it, that stripped late FTJ’s immunity (we rest that one).
If you have time, listen to the Ngambela’s interview on the UK-bsed the internet radio and he explictly defined Barotseland as comprising the 7 Districts that today make up Western Province – no more no less (we move on).
No BA64 and cries for restoration studied the day it was abrogated. The fact you just heard about it doesn’t mean it started today. It was being negotiated by the BRE ‘quietly’ and today the fight has been picked up by main stream and given enough coverage, thanks to WWW. BNC is the People of Barotseland… read on!
Zero Option!
Nice try, no I wasn’t sent by Zambia to go and study “there”… not at all! So we have put that one to bed.
Nope, never studied law and I don’t the clauses, or the lack of it, that stripped late FTJ’s immunity (we rest that one).
If you have time, listen to the Ngambela’s interview on the UK-bsed the internet radio and he explictly defined Barotseland as comprising the 7 Districts that today make up Western Province – no more no less (we move on).
No BA64 and cries for restoration studied the day it was abrogated. The fact you just heard about it doesn’t mean it started today. It was being negotiated by the BRE ‘quietly’ and today the fight has been picked up by main stream and given enough coverage, thanks to the Internet… read on!
The BNC is the People of Barotseland… it is a supreme representative. The BRE is part of the BNC and so my extension, the BNC or the people are a party to the Agreement – think of Parent Company and a Subsidiary company (not a very good illustration but you get the point, right?). The BRE are a political organ of Barotseland. The Agreement was signed by the Litunga on behalf of the people of Barotseland – read it again and come back. Fun you think the BRE would easily be compromised (not this time), because it really makes no difference who you recognise as a signatory. As long you recognise the Agreement as a real document, BNC or BRE, they both want it honoured or they are out of this political marriage.
Then that’s fine.If u want only western province then we can give u da province but Nkoyas and Mbundas won’t accept to be under Litunga.This is why it’s not easy.The only area u can be given is Mongu.Anyway thanks alot Lozis coz In CB i would have started beating u up.Lamba land is no go area for u.If u continue like that we’ll be beating u up Malozi
J@igga,Where are u?Go back to Barotse before we beat u up?U’re selfish people who have failed to invest where u come from.U’ve all invested in LSK and CB.Bembas,Ngonis,lambas,Lenges solis and some tongas always invest in their areas.What about u who claim to have yo Barotse.U claim 2 be educated but not even a minister has built a house in Barotse Country.Ha ha ha u’re jokers full of ignorance and fake dresses of the queen.Queen in Africa?U’re bunch of loosers and Jokers with yo litunga.Just appriciate to be among Zambians.soon Ngambela will be arrested
Sounds like someone who has failed to reason with your brains… no comment here, except I will urge you to read your comment again and just try to ‘listen’ to yourself.
Soon after meeting the billigerent factions in the Biafran conflict, Lt-Col Ojukwu and the new Head-of-State enthroned by the countercoup, Lt-Col Gowon, Julius Kambarage Mwalimu Nyerere declared, & quote: “… the Biafrans have now suffered the same kind of rejection within their state that the Jews of Germany experienced…. We therefore recognize the State of Biafra as an independent sovereign entity, & as a member of the community of nations.”
Julius Nyerere, President-Tanzania. The intellectual capabilities of Ojukwu & Gowon were like day & night. If Zambia fields Sakeni against Sinyinda in the deliberations, watch SADC reconise them overnight.
Who will listen to disgruntled thiefs, crooks and the lot sponsored by the foolish govt of tribalists from muchinga. Just cncentrate on mourning your chiti mukulu while we move on. By the way all it free meet, nondo no bwalwa, katata kumwalule for all kolwestans. kuya fye no muchele fyoonse fyamahala. Alut continua with Barosteland,
Iwe Mwine Lubemba Malisawa “the Fake”, Kasama is not in Muchinga but in Northern Province.
@ Chidakwa – a couple of years ago a leading British newspaper ran an article talking of how early Brits found a great number of queens in southern Africa. Those queens were strategically deposed and replaced by puppet kings whom they then diminished into chiefs told to serve the empire :) Many do not even know their tribes were originally run by queens and it was encouraged amnesia :)
My point is historically ‘some’ Brits were not angels bringing development and education for our benefit. Empire building was dirty business. Slavery was dirty business. Divide and conquer was dirty business. Economic slavery is dirty business. There are some genuine Europeans who fought with us but we were ‘designed to fail’. We won’t.
ok ,lets be honesty here bloggers,if govt decide to let western province secede from zed,iam 1000% that these lozis will start bringing in the boundary claims of the land they claim to have controlled,the are like babies u give a baby water which s/he is demanding and without drinking it s/he starts demanding something else.the reason is that, s/he reallydidnt want water but love from you ,in the same manner ,the pipo championing w/p to secede from zambia are just looking for power or gud life,they are not crying for the poor people but their stomach and looking forward to send their grandkids overseas for education,they will litelly do nothing to eradicate poverty,unemploment and they will continue blaming zambia govt for their failures.so my humble appeal to the poor demand devpt.wake.
Interesting viewpoint. It makes me think of how two groups can agree to play together and have a witness then one of the group leaders decides playing together under those terms was not the real plan and pushes the other kids out of the playground because like a baby once you give water the baby wants something else. Those kids went on to run the whole playground but also forgot to take care of the poorer kids and sent their own overseas for education doing literally nothing to eradicate poverty. unemployment and continue blaming other parties for their failures so my humble appeal to the poor is demand development :) Nice on, Kinda works both ways except yours is perceived imaginary result and the other is probably my jaded view…
please we needed change of development but the change that we have seen worsting resources for the country on changes of ministers and permanent secretaries DO YOU LOOK ON THE MONEY FOR THESE TRANSFER OF THESE PEOPLE when we voted for MMD IN 1991 we saw the change within 1 month. God help our zambia by pumping more wisdom in the heads of these creeks. HOW CAN YOU SAY K .K SHOULD COMMENT ON BALOTSE DID YOU SEE THIS MAN TO HAVE HEART FOR THE PEOPLE OF WESTERN.
Why do you think he had Nalumino Mundia, Humphrey Mulemba, Arthur and Sikota Winas, Malimba Masheke to just name but a few in his government if he had no heart for western province? Get real.
#31 kachingwe has clearly asked what the boundaries are that Sinyinda is claiming. Seems no one has an idea.
Bane, IT’S NICE TO SEE THE BROKE GENERAL MALIMBA MASHEKE TAKE PART IN THIS CONFUSION WHEN HE COULD NOT DO SO WHEN HE WAS PRIME MINISTER IN UNIP…… SHAME, SHAME, SHAME……..THE MAN WANTS CHEAP MEDIA COVERAGE …. LOL!!!!!
what integrity do you have to warn us ..?go tell your fellow cadres..
All you need to do is go to the Barotse land website to see the map of Barotse according to them. The argument the professor has raised is valid. Are they going to claim the land in the neighbouring countries too. :-?[-(
#56,57, bwana Jigga, sometimes to talk too much is no good at all. You say people have information about barosteland thanks to internet, fine but the very internet has a rather opposite view of the so called boundaries of barosteland far from the current western province. Do yourself a good favor and just apply yourself to do good as talking from without will just expose your ignorance about the whole BA64 document. If the Ngambela told you the BA64 is just about western province in its current state, then i pitty you, how gullible you are, thats up to you to accept the levels of being cheated. Do you know that Kabompo has chief sikufele? he is mainly mbunda but was installed there not because litunga controlled that land but becoz the ma mbunda defeated the luvales who were attacking ..
.. the Aluyi peoples. Have you ever asked a simple question why nkoyas up to now still dont recognize the litunga as their chief? or should you be reminded that the royalties from copper sales from 1964 up to 1986 were gotten by the litunga and for the litunga and his family alone? Its from 1986, that the lochner concession and BSA treaties concerning royalties came to an end, for 86 years that is begining of the 20th century litunga has been getting pocket money for nothing yet when this is stopped, you start saying you have been negotiating quietly? at the expense of copperbelt and nortwestern province copper? mwana study had and do yourself justice. no wonder people who hail from western province never invest their fortunes there. the litunga will grab all. thats your litunga!!!
Learn from south suda. No jobs,food,home. The new nation despite having Oil has nothing to offer. Sudan is not offering resident or work permit and the South Sudanise people face deportation. Barotse will be worse there no industry to support the deportees from zambia.
Zero Option… You seem to know much bout the inside knowledge of the Litunga royalties. I dodn’t dwel in Propaganga and Conspiracy theories.
Glad judging from your latest postig, it sounds like you have been convinced over your questions you raised about the BA’64 Signatory and the relationship between the BRE and BNC. That was the scope of my argument.
As for Sikufele, Litunga , Nkoyas and royalties, I’m afraid the topic seems to discuss ‘everything’ in two postings… very incoherent and I’m not sure what you want me to say to that… studying, yes I have studied much in my field. Sorry I don’t have time to study about the Mbunda’s defeat of the Luvales; post a summary here and I will read about it. Not sure how that’s got to do with the current impasse over BA’64
I SUPORT WESTAERN PROVINCE. SATA HAS GIVENJOBS TOBEMBASONLY AND NOT EVEN A LOZIBEEN APPOINTED IN FOREIGN MISSION OR ANY ACTIVE POSSITIONS. ATASE CHI PF CANCER