LIUWA MMD Member of Parliament (MP) Situmbeko Musokotwane and former Finance Minister has said that he opposes the 50 plus one threshold for the winning President, arguing that the system was costly and did not guarantee desired outcomes.
Contributing to a debate during a consultative meeting held at Parliament building organised by the Civil Society Constitution Coalition (CSCC) for MPs, Dr Musokotwane said Zambia should consider
adopting the South African system where MPs voted for the President.
Dr Musokotwane said the political system in South Africa controlled the Presidency and at any time it wished, it could recall him.
“Take for instance the example of former President Thabo Mbeki, through the political system, he was recalled,” Dr Musokotwane said.
The former Finance Minister noted that the South African system could be equated to the 50+1 one in some way as it limited the powers of the President too.
“The very basis of the 50+1 is still met under this system because it breaks the power of Presidency using the political system,” he said.
Pls no 50 bull….
Its It’s nonsense
We all know there is no room for it. Its designed to help hh
Chaps imagine w tonga ot lozi at state house are you joking
Its like zambia qualifying to world cup. Possible but wont happen period
Trouble is zambians respect academic qualifications over experience why?
@ jo
banokoh rogor muchinena,if i knew your wife i can poke her pussssy with a stick till it bleeds.
Musokotwane you are a useful 1diot.
Who old you democracy was cheap?
We want 50 +1 so that will continue electing the President directly
In fact I will add on that we elect the mayors directly as well and voters must have the powers to recall their MPs and mayors if they don’t perform
@ jo,
U a spot on, no need to emphasize we all know some scumbag thinks thru this useless costly 50 +1 he may enter state house forgettin no one ll give him a chance like he was given privitisation and enriched himself.
@chloroquin
No wonder no sane doctors prescribes that drug anymore,your thinking has a slow puncture.
In one breath someone is saying the 50+1 clause will favour the likes of HH and the another says no one would elect the a Tonga or Lozi. If that’s the case why the opposition? Couldn’t also be the fact that @Jo etc feel with the current performance and lack of academic aptitude, Sata has exposed his lack of statesmanship on the world platform hence wouldn’t be electable in the 50+1 system of election?
@ 1.2 Jo — because experience can only take you so far. A log that floats down a river will never turn into a crocodile no matter how much time passes.
I thought your PhD made u wise, why should MPs be the ones to chose who should be my president when *****ss like masumba,name them can easily be bought and corruptly cross over, 50+1 is our own saviour, for over 20years we have been ruled by minority president scoring an average of 29%. E.g Levy RB and Sata 46% this means 70 or 60% of the pipo have rejected u so why go to state house via back door.
@chloroquin, you must be a UPND cadre who thinks what jo has said warrants an insult. ala truth hurts mu friend, no amount of insult will take hh to plot one. just keep insulting because nothing will change. zambia is a christian nation and no free-mason will enter state house. perhaps if cows, cow dung and mabisi would be allowed to vote. kekekekekek!
@Diva
ulebelesha nokoh mutombwah ubufuleme, dont you know cows are a sign of wealth.tell me a tribe who are headers and are poor? come to southern or western and see if you will find mulnuorished people and ask how often we drink milk.now start mpika upto luwingu or mporokoso ask people if they know the taste of milk,kwishiba fye ishina ati umukaka nangu ingombe. eating zeroooooo!!! now where is your pride bukalah bo?
@ George bush
ichindike
I used to think Musokotwane is an !mbecile.
Now I know.
Dr Musokotwane is over simplifying matters by comparing our electoral system with the SA one. Although MPs elect the President in Parliament they themselves(MPs) are not elected by the masses, so they have no constituencies. In the SA system a voter casts two votes, i.e. the provincial vote and the national one. And in each case the voter elects a PARTY rather than an INDIVIDUAL. Each province has its own LEGISLATURE and each party contributes as many MPLs (Members of the Provincial Legislature) as their corresponding % score of the vote. The same goes for the National vote. Prior to the election every party holds a list conference at provincial & National level, ranking its executive members from highest to lowest votes & its this list from which they deploy their MPs.
CONTINUATION… So, in the SA system there are about 400 seats in the National Parliament. Therefore a party that wins 50% of the national vote would deploy 200 members from its parliamentary list (usually in the order of No.1 in votes to No. 200). Remember, the list is determined at a list conference of selected delegates and not the general public. So, even by voting for the party of your choice, you have no say on which specific individuals you wish to present you in parliament.
@Jo
Your thinking is misleading you big time. If you think M’membe called it truce with Sata in order to get Sata to state house for nothing ,then better think again. There is a deal that was agreed upon by Sata and the M’membe cartel to make sure that a Lozi is given a chance to rule Zambia. Talk about Tongas may be, but for them one will have to win an election fair and square to get to state house whether you like it or not.
And not in the too distant future a Tonga will be put in plot 1 by all the Zambians including most of the Bembas who don’t buy this tribalism nonsense propagated by the chief minion M’membe. People are actually slowly realising that M’membe is a liar and traitor so they no longer buy the rubbish his past paper publishes.
Mwanawasa was Tonga, another one…
Folks,
One thing that is true and will not changed by any human is the fact that PF will be booted out of power no matter how the constitution is manipulated.
My dad once told me “a revolution flows like a flooded body of water and anything that stands in its way get destroyed.” A revolution got KK , Chiluba and Banda out. If Sata tries to resist the revolution he will fall but with terrible consequences that include possible loss of life.
Remember ” You can fool some people some times ,but you can’t fool all the people all the time” by Bob Marley
Mark my words . Its just a matter of time. Never say never.
@Octopus Bwalya
“…………. for over 20years we have been ruled by minority president scoring an average of 29%. E.g Levy RB and Sata 46% this means 70 or 60% of the pipo have rejected u so why go to state house via back door,” so you say. I say to you that if Sata got 46%, it does not mean that 54% rejected him, it means, with almost 100 political parties in the country and more than 10 or so presidential candidates, they had other candidates to vote for who shared the spoils. The majority 46% said yes and hence he is a majority president
too late a submission. the process started when you were in government why this contribution now.
just shows the quality of MP’s – it is BEYOND HIM TO UNDERSTAND WHEN TO CONTRIBUTE APPROPRIATELY – We are a DEMOCRACY, NOT a BOOTLICK-O-CRACY where daft MP’s can continue exploiting the masses!!
… are you trying to steal my name?
Either way, it is a nice name!
That’s your personal opinion Doc. We the people will not allow that, not with the calibre of MP’s we continue having in Parliament including you.
The 13 million plus Zambians will make a decision and not 150 people, who have no ideal whatsoever what the common man needs.
Well put my friend.We can’t allow a system where a few men will be bribed by a fellow villager.Jacob Zuma is an example of a villager in power- not a good mix.
Well said Enka!!
It is government of the people, by the people and for the people that is enshrined in our democractic constitution not the proposal of election of the president by the MPs only so that they pick only one of their kind, and not a favourite of the people. Former Finance Minister, last time you visited my office in L/stone while in power, you really impressed me, now it seems poverty of the mind has encroached on you!
Yet, we the people voted for these 150 people to represent us.
Vote wisely next time.
Further, you have a right, duty and obligation to talk to your MP and to TELL him what he should/must say in parliament. Another secret government does not want you to know.
#OneZambia
Musokotwane should change nationality @ let him become South African.
Or Indian. Varun (Pepsi) should sponsor his application.
People have already decided! They want 50+1 period. Give the people what they want. No shifting of goal posts
Teddy – It’s not about politicians giving us what we want.
We will get it. We have decided and politicians have no other option but to do what we have decided. Whoever stands in our way of having 50% +1 included gets sidelined.
I actually agree with the learned Dr here. The 50+1 is one of the issues that should go to the refrendum and I support his kick starting this compaign.
Obsession with 50+1 by Zambians stems from perpertual failure to dislodge MMD in the past, now that we have done that , it is time to think clearly. Elections are costly and our country needs the money.
Proponents of 50+1 will obviously be UPND cadres, but I think UPND needs to move away from the myopic vision of getting the presidency at all cost. The SA system is something we can use.
You analysis is correct. Its UPND bitterness that HH will never be President that has caused this.
So if you believe in the MAJORITY, you have to BE SUPER NAIVE TO START COMPLAINING ABOUT COST!!! Actually calling you naive is probably more than respectful – So why are you afraid of Lozi’s or Tonga’s??? They are still Zambianos & have every right to seek the highest office – We have had many masquaraders who have MISLED US rather than LED US!!!
Having been MISLED by PF, HH & his gang, might after all be a small speck in the eye, compaired to the LOG THAT IS IN PLOT 1
If you were not a PF Zealot you would have made sense but Im afraid you are yourself so obsessed with keeping PF in power that your reasoning is so clouded. If 50+1 was merely an obsession to remove MMD from Power then I would recommend that we push it further so that we remove this clueless PF from Power. I cant wait to see these kaponya dictators removed from state house and or Government offices. As for Tongas and the related tribes I see no reason why we should keep on electing bembas when they hate us so much. I make no apologies for this because it is true that majority of the Bembas will never vote for a Tonga, Lenje, Soli, Luvale, Lunda, Ila , Lozi and any other related tribes. Why should we then keep on pampering them as though we owl them anything? I rest my case.
It is not Elections which are costly rather it is civilization and democracy which are costly and we just have to foot the bill!
Who do you think can recall sata if you have never even impeached any president in the history of zambia. Doc you are a dreamer! Zambia is not South Africa
Whoever thought a sitting president could lose an election until RB made history…the Zambians are not to be taken for granted.
Iwe Tomas what about Kaunda? He was a sitting President when he lost to Chiluba, are you Zambian I wonder?
If refusing to have 50% + 1 thresh-hold for the winning presidential candidate is meant to maintain PF rule or misrule, then some pipo will be shocked the day the PF goverment will kicked out of power even without the 50% + 1 being part of the constitution. UNIP & MMD were power for some time but time came when they lost.
Therefore, 50% + 1 must be put not to target any person or part but for the good of the pipo, a MAJORITY president is BETTER for the UNITE of this country. 50% + 1 helps the citizens minimise the tribal talks which may lead the country into violence or conflicts in future. It helps the president to govern NOT rule as s/he gets support from other regions than they come from.
You’re just one person with a view Mr. Musokotwane. What the people want is what they should get. We have come so far, you’re not gonna take us back to where we started.
@bobby
and you are not just one person with that primitive view.
You must be joking! controlling Ukwa with his huge appetite for power and vulgar language? this is Zambia the real Africa with 90% illiterates including the current president.
Fr Ukwa you fu.cking I’d.iot. Don’t disrespect the President.
@ bodybuilder. Exactly what i expect from Ukwa`s children, insults. Like father like son. Don`t bring that kind of language to me am not one of your fellow riff ruffs.
The big man is right on 50 plus one because the country can be compelled to go for second general election within three months. Very costly indeed for a poor country like Zambia.
Comprehending on whats more costly between having another bye election in 3 months or keeping someone like Ukwa for 5 years!!!!!
How much more costly if governments like the PF can fund by-elections just like that?
People complaining about cost seem to count this cost in groundnuts!!( imbalala!!)
The cost of a re-run Will BE CHEAPER IN TERMS OF REAL MONEY, REAL DEVELOPMENT AS WELL AS THE ANGST OF THE PEOPLE!!! Rather than a mob of thieves as we have experienced with the past 3 govts!!
Praying for the next cycle of elections is the most IMPOTENT OF THOUGHTS – we have a constitution & an electoral system that can boot out such, problem we have an opposition that is OVERBURDENED BY MALAISE, similiar to that seen in unfortunate kids suffering from KWASHIOKOR!!!
It is better to spend our resources in enhancing democracy than on unnecessary bye elections. 50+1 is the way to go. Please no one is being targeted here, it is for the betterment of this country, we don’t want leaders elected on regional basis and to be despised by other regions which did not elect him. 50+1 will bring a bit of balance and unity in the political atmosphere.
Musakotwane is not zambian, he is from Barotseland!
If this decision came from PF it would have been received with insults.Now it is coming from opposition people are quiet.What a hypocricy!!
they are contributing constructively
But Musokotwane maybe a sponsored voice of the PF in MMD like many compromised MMD MPs in parley. Afterall, he maybe running away from some crimes committed during his tenure of office as Finance Minister.
i would also argue that 50+1% has worked wel in zimbabwe,congo,u.s.a etc. and a popular president as oposed to a tribal president has be voted in.remember that democracy is expensive ba dokota.
USA don’t use the 50 plus 1,but electoral college system.
YOU ARE RIGHT. THE SA SYSTEM IS SUPERB EVEN THO YOUR SUBMISSION IS TOO LATE.
THE 50+1 SYSTEM CANNOT WORK IN MOST AFRICAN COUNTRIES WHERE POLITICS ARE TRIBALLY BASED.
Your Honor, that means the final draft constitution is a non- starter!
First of all, Musokotwane, where did you get your Doctoral qualification, one would indeed question your sanity. Your opinion is misplaced, and it ill timed. No wonder, we can not trust the parliamentarians to make decisions on behalf of 13 million people. You are now coming out, no wonder MMD did not pass the constitution because such as foolish ideas. The excise is costly because you the parliament are a liability. In south Africa, ZUMA cut down the cost of running parliament such luxury cars and extra credit facility, but what did you do,??? you did the opposite and are now paying your selves heft sums yet you turn around and say, its costly…GO to Hell.
Musokotwane got his PhD from Konstanz University in Germany. Can you tell us where you got yours from? Is it from your Mushindo University?
The doc is merely expressing his opinion like all of us. Why insult?
Am glad he got his PhD from an unknown university, thank God it’s not from best universities in UK such as oxford , university of Glasgow or Cambridge I would have appealed for them to revoke it
@ Membe Post
You have failed to understand the reasoning behind the doc’s position. He is simply telling you that pf will not pass the final draft in its current form with the 50 + 1. He is suggesting an alternative to the clause….and please cut your linen according to your size.
consultative meeting for what?are we ever going to progress in zambia…where were these people when everyone was making submissions to the technical committee..by now we should be talking of how a referendum should be carried out…with such kind of thinking,no wonder pf is taking its time to even release the draft becoz we are too docile and have misplaced priority..please doc don’t tek us behind
There is a reason why such type of talk is still going on. Any fore sighted person can already see that we shall not have a new constitution before 2016.
Who told Musokotwane that Democracy is cheap.
Wht can these politicks of the belly mps vote,,biased as they are,total nonsense.
A 50+1 and a minimum of 25% votes in at least 5 provinces is best since it forces a president to canvas for votes all over.It may also force a candidate to cohabit with a vice who might garner votes in an unpopular province and thus a vice president can’t be fired at will and may stand up against misrule like Joyce Banda did.
50%+1 is not aimed at controlling the president, but having a president elected by the majority of the willing voters. This would, rather than encourage, reduce the chances of tribally elected presidents, like the one we have. So don’t mix issues here sir Former. MPs electing the president in Zambia is a non-starter; what makes you think there can be another president different from the one leading the campaigns, or the majority party president? Can’t sideline Sata after doing all he could, including lying, and choose Munkombwe! He ‘died’ for it!
The majority have spoken on this matter and your opinion Musokotwane remains just that. 50 plus 1 is the way to go. MP who resign or change political parties should take leave from parliament for at least 5 years, this will reduce by elections.
Then we shall not have a new constitution. In Zambia, like in many other African countries, voting is done along ethnic lines(latest Mansa, before that Mkaika.). Pf cannot command a 50+1 vote in the first round, and in the second round it is history. SO CAN PF PLANT A SEED OF ITS OWN DESTRUCTION? NO AND SO NEW CONSTITUTION BEFORE 2016 IS MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.
NO SIR! You completely miss the point here. 50%+1 vote is designed to ensure that a president is popularly elected and has the real mandate of the people. The RSA model you suggest actually de-franchizes the citizenry and leaves such a great task to a selected few. We, the people, want to vote directly for our president and we want to ensure that he has legitimacy. It has worked in other parts of Africa, why should it fail here? 50%+1 vote is the way to go!
Mama, the 72+ ethnic groups in Zambia brings in a new scenario which gives advantage to the trailing party in the second round. Take for example the just ended elections. If the 50+1 was in play, UPND would have rallied behind MMD and RB would still be in plot 1. This clause is a catch 22 to any ruling party, the reason why MMD did not include it in the failed NCC draft.
@ ganja farmer
Excuse me. 50+1 % has worked in Zimbabwe? Congo? USA? etc?
Are you dreaming?
The USA are using the doctor’s model.
Zimbabwe’s system like ours will always favour the bigger tribe..it will always be a Shona irrespective of the system unless MPs decide otherwise, in the name of proportional representation like in SA.
He is a ganja farmer. dont bother about him
USA has a model which cannot be applied to Zambia
The USA doesn’t use what Dr Musokotwane is proposing. It’s a collegiate form and won’t go into explaining it. Google it. Furthermore, the eventual president is chosen through party conventions and the eventual party that wins the elections determines the parties leader as president
It is not really the winning party as such but the number of states that a candidate wins that determines the winner. Each state has electoral votes depending on its population.
Democracy is not cheap!!
The Doc is right in principle. in most countries even in USA the electorate is too polarized mainly due to misinformation and tribal/regional inclination. It means there is always going to be a re-run election because a true majority is near impossible in the first round. In short, a budget for any presidential election should be double when planing.
The problem with us Zambians is that we look at particular individuals in formulating laws. What happens to that piece of law once that individual is no longer in the equation? This time we are looking at how to reduce the powers of president SATA. What will happen after he leaves office. I think it is more dangerous to have a weak government or president than a strong one especially in Zambia where we think being in opposition means opposing everything the government does whether good or bad.
This idi.ot is at no good again! Can this OLD Pig please leave Zambians alone? The current MPs are not even fit to be to be in parliamnet so how can we give them such powers?
At present, MPs are selling their seats for money and junior minister jobs which is why we have so many bye-election so how can we them powers to choose our president?
Also this DULL old fella got it wrong about recalling of a president South Africa! That is done by political parties not MPs? Mbeki was recalled by ANC members not by other party MPs!
How an educated MP can confuse Political Party rules to the National Constitution provisions is beyond me! He is so ignorant and it is shocking really!
You’re very dull. A President elected by parliament can be recalled either by the party that sponsored him or by a majority of members of parliament. It is based on the workings of a parliamentary system. Zambians you are dull to the point of nauseating!
@Ushaa – what a waste of spe.rm you are! How can South African Democrats recall a sitting ANC president unless they were a majority BUT then they would have had the Presidency as well!
Either, your grey matter is full of sh.it or you think with your di.ck not your head! But still you are a dund.erhead!
Now ba Chilyata – you know, a di.ck also has a head, can you expound which head you mean???
Correct,I was just wondering his political understanding of current political system world over.am worried that such a learnt person lack understanding b/n party system and constitutional system.no hope for Zambia.
50 plus one threshold is not very bad Bo Musokotwane.It is indeed a drain on our limited resources but one thing we have to understand is that democracy is not cheap.We just have to go in this direction as a country.
ba nzeelu! whatever the cost, 50% + 1 is the way! it would be even more costly without it!
I totally agree with Dr Musokotwane one blogger did actually say the same thing that 50+1 is an expensive way to elect a president. Just look at the way by-elections have been costly we should avoid it…Well done sir i hope many Zambians should see logic, nothing wrong with the idea just like nothing wrong having a national airline its the consequences of an controllable costs that the poor tax payer will suffer in the end.
This is truly daft. Musokotwane should just forget it. The draft has already been written.
Remember it is still a draft, So don’t be so daft as well.
Hon S. Musokotwane needs to be taught that because of the crookedness of politicians RSA has maintained the issue of voting for the President by MPs. That system was supposed to be used once in the first election which ushered in ANC and thereafter introduce the Zambian format were people vote for the President directly. This matter was highlighted wen President Mbeki was removed. Further with so many person to holder parties including PF in Zambia, which party can recall the President. To get to RSA system, you need to redo the entire which includes MPS. Don’t just borrow the cream but get the entire can. Your ignorance is very dangerous Sir.
Shut up! It is as per the South African constitution.
Doc, the 50 + 1 system may seem costly but have you ever considered the cost of conflict associated with having a minority president in state house? Look at what is happening at the moment, Sata is spending a huge amount of money engineering bye elections and trying to manipulate the constitution just to keep him in power. If he was elected via a 50+1 % system he would have negotiated a deal with one of the opposition leaders that would have avoided all this.
The Zambian demographical/tribal mix is different from S. Africa and athe 50+1% system will work perfectly him. The cost of a run off vote shouldn’t deter us. It is the cost of having a stable govt
Correction:
The last paragraph should read:
The Zambian demographical/tribal mix is different from S. Africa and the 50+1% system will work perfectly well. The cost of a run off vote shouldn’t deter us. It is the cost of having a stable govt
The best can be to allow only two (2) political parties in the country finish. That is why KK refused multipatism initially because he read the kind of confusion that would exist in the country. Just allow for two parties in the constitution because other parties are just for fun and just spoilers
Look up the meaning of DEMOCRACY!!! We don’t want “Humanism II”
Good idea worth debating.
Very interesting how Zambia can waste finances. If you compare the NCC draft consititution with this TC one, you find no major difference except that the NCC one was legally backed and that most burning clauses like the 50+1, dual citizen, running mate etc were recommended to go through a referendum. Hence Docs opinion. What a waste of time and money! Anyway MCS had to find away to put money in his friends pockets in the name of TC
We are past that stage of deabate. Besides he is very much intitled to his own views. 50+1is death warrant for PF. They know it very well.
Most foolish proposal I have heard in a long time. Parliament in Zambia is a clown. Boeing, jeering and chatting is all they do during the sessions. They can’t get anything done. Would be folly to give them what is our right and responsibility. The would mess it up/
this is the best model zambia has chosen,let others copy from us not this 50+1 to suit a perpetual loser HH. GRZ should stand firm and not ve brainless pipo push this tuvi of 50+1
Mazyu aako! What stupi.dity is this! Others copying from SataN’s laws – you must e dreaming cos that will never happen!
You lazy poverty stricken lumpens entirely dependent on the PF Government handouts should keep on living in fantasy!
The one million dollar question is how do you get pf to sign its own DEATH WARRANT as ZP puts it? So Chilyata just breath and swallow your infantile emotional outburst.
If some people are saying HH can not be elected to state house and that no Tonga or Lozi can be elected for presidency, well fine; then lets divide the country so that each group of people rule themselves as opposed to where only one tribal rule over others. If Bembas were ordined by God to rule Zambians then today in this 21st century have refused this belief even if it was going to be among the 10 commandments. We reject it because it is babarick and has no place in this society.
Precious things do not come cheap! Election by MPs will breed corruption; only those with big money will pay MPs and win their way through to state house.
Mr Musokotane! After being a politician for so long? It is very easy to bribe 150 MPs and do whatever you want there after as presidemnt. Dont just copy the RSA system without considering the context of that system. RSA has a very strong opposition of men and women who cant be bribed.
Popular mandates are the best. College is more suitable for religious organizations. The great RSA is a country merging from deep divisions and conflict. It is still healing. In terms of democratic development, Zambia is the regional leader followed by Malawi. The RSA is better at in economic infrastructure development.
In Zambia we can’t talk about serving money for meaningful projects as people are suggesting here. The Constitution we are talking about is one that has cost this nation and it is time to put this matter to a permanent conclusion. Is Musokotwane and others bloggers aware that we have had over at least 5 avoidable bye elections. This is a matter that is gobbling finances than 50+1. if we can hold these bye elections then we can afford the 50+1
Some people are so dull! Chiluba, Kaunda or Banda were not recalled as compared to Mbeki who was a sitting president and then recalled! S.t.u.p.i.d.y zambians! – (refer kaunda)
Iwe Musokotwane 150 people in parliament cannot decide who rules the over 13million people!! 150 / 13000000 x 100 = 0.0011538461538462%!!This number is very small and cannot be allowed to elect the president on behalf of 13 million Zambians. Be serious man we want 50% + 1 nothing else exepensive or not as long as the people chose who they want!!
Is this sick Doctor speaking for himself or this is the MMD official position! Sick, sick, and sad.
@Fr Ukwa the current President has no appetite for power like the way u see it, actually he does not even want to go upto 2016 becoz he wants to pave way for the young ones to take over PF thats why you see so many fightings currently in PF because they know the President does not want to cling to power and who is next, so please stop dreaming and stop insulting Mr Sata moreover he is older than your father, you are just cursing yourself!
Very interesting Dr Musokotwane. However, with the calibre of MPs we have; with the MPs manipulated by the President; I am very sure that this would not work in Zambia. Even listening to you right now, one cannot help but think you have been brainwashed by the cobra.
Ba Musokotwane, ala iyi eh democracy twa eba! Take it or leave it. I don’t think in todays age Zambians are willing to be ruled in the manner of having leaders elected by MP’s ninshi why are we voting and why elections? When you start to think like this its time to consider the voice of predeccesors/fresh minds before being quoted like this.
Point of correction Mr. Situmbeko.The system used in South Africa is that people elect members of parliament. The party with the majority MPs then come up with the prsident who was elected at party convention. The party central committee can recall the president not the members of parliament. This is exactly what happened to President Thabo Mheki. ANC recalled him not the members of parliament.
This system is not good in the sense that the president is afraid of making independent dicissions rather than that of the party. He is a rubber stamp.
the Doc is speaking as an economist. He must be forgiven. What he has not pondered is that with advancements in technology we may adopt more cost effective ways of voting like electronic voting which are already working well with payment of utility bills and money transfers using mobile phones.The 50+1 is a must. It consolidates a fragmented country like what Zambia is slowly but surely drifting into.
Republican President being voted by MPs is no brainer. Which MPs the majority or the minority or both. All considerations are note viable. We want a national president elected by majority nationals. As for 50+1, it is good. It will even limit and/or force small parties to merge.
Lets not hasten to enact the 50 + 1 method without looking at the bigger picture. It would be pointless to enact the 50 +1 method and leave the ECZ to operate under its current form. The essence of the 50 + 1 method is to ensure that a popular president is elected into office but if the ECZ or our current electral systems is left unchanged (i.e easily subject to manipulation by the incumbant president) then the whole 50 + 1 exercise will be futile. Lets review our current electral systems and how the ECZ operates, only then will we benefit from the 50 + 1 method….
What Musokotwane forgets is that under the South African political system, electorates vote for a political party and not individual MPs. Depending on the percentage a party gets for the 400 seats parliament, MPs from that party will be nominated to parliament by the party including their preferred presidential candidate hence Parliament has to elect the president as procedure. Under the Zambian system, electorates directly pick their MP and president in the constituency they are based so this proposal would only create more chaos than adopting the 50 + 1 clause.
Once Zambia becomes politically mature and economically strong very soon a popular candidate can win 50+1 on first attempt like the case was in 1991 when the Workers and the people voted for a popular Labour Leader without tribal considerations, remember there a third party in contention NADA which was ignored. Please be reminded that Zambia has never been ruled by a Bemba President before. Drop this tribalism argument. Bembas voted for Mwanawasa and RB without tribal considerations when Sata lost. Sata is Bisa by tribe from little Mpika District without huge bearing on the Bembas of Kasama, Chinsali, Luwingu and Mporokoso the actual/original Bembas. What matters is the popularity not even the education or richness of a person can win one an election.
Ba Innocent you are implying aba Bisa are a small tribe. They aren’t. They stretch from Luapula into Central Northern/Mchinga Eastern Provinces into Malawi. Remnants of them are found in Rwanda and Burundi.
Buntungwa-Mujambojambo, before spearing me to death read my blog between the lines. I am not in any way belittleing Bisa tribe, rather I am tired of tribal connotations of feeble-minded people blogging against voting for a Bemba president like they have ever had one before. My blog aims at protecting our present President by those implying that he was voted for by Bembas so they should never ever again vote for a Bemba president. It is a fact we have never had a Bemba president. Bembas by tribe and the other 24 Zambian Bemba speaking tribes vote without tribal considerations, rather they vote for whoever is very popular at a given time whether Bemba speaking or not, and history has recorded this fact. Otherwise Mwanawasa(MHSRIP) would not had won two terms, and RB won in 2008 against Sata.
What all proponents of Democracy need to know is that Democracy is damn expensive. Musokotwane is discovering this a little too late. When you free the people you must be prepared to pump money into their security and in elections. Elections are a basic requirement in a democracy because people have to speak through a ballot.
In a dictatorship the Police work through something very effective called intimidation so crime is usually never comitted and as such they do little work. In a democracy the police need to work harder and that means they need more funds for training and buying tools to put them ahead of criminals. Criminals have to be investigated (which is not needed in a dictatorship because you can just torture a confession out of them) and that costs money cos they have rights
Musokotwane is reading the South African situation to suit his argument. The political system in South Africa doesn’t control the Presidency as he states. Its the party that recalled Mbeki not Parliament. Mbeki was only recalled because he lost the infighting within the ANC. If the ruling party has a dictator who is very much in control (and his party has the kind of majority that the ANC has) no political system can recall him. As expensive as 50+ is the people who need it must pay for it.
Dr. Musokotwane is spot on. We have to maintain the status quo. It is cheap and democratic. I would that the winner gets 50% plus 1 like we had in 1991 and 1996 when FTJ scored more than 75%. However, achieving 50% plus 1 through a re-run is waste of public resources. This was one of my submissions to the committee drafting the constitution, and am happy the Doc shares my views.
However, remember to split Zambia into a federal state, having an elected president and one army.
The legitimacy of a presidential candidate who scores 40% and is happily smiling that he or she has won the majority is not only absurd but promotes mathematical illiteracy in a country that has been independent for 50 years. Most of the systems in our country don’t work because they are urged against serving incumbents. We need a 50+1 so that we correctly say that we have a majority Govt. in power not piece meal parties. We need to think for the good of the country and not UPND, MMD or indeed PF. It is surprising that the learned Musokotwane has started airing these things when we should wait and see what the draft constitution says and then we open up debate which should culminate in a national referendum.
IT IS TRUE ONLY TO SAY EXPERIENCE AND EDUCATION MAKES A GOOD COMBINATION , WE NEED 50+ , SO WE CAN START ELECTING CAPABLE OFFICE BEARERS. THE NATION SHOULD COME FIRST BEFORE OUR POLITICAL PARTY
now i know he has no head!
Musokotwane mulibe nzeelu a sekuulu!
every zambian wants 50% + 1 vote
Musokotwane has been bought by the wynter clique
so that they can buy MPs to vote for them
we can’t trust this noble task onto corrupt MPs. we will vote for our own president through 50% + 1 vote period! even if it is costly, it is our tax money that is used, not yours Musokotwane!
it is cheaper to have a people’s president through the people’s 50% + 1 vote than, a president corruptly voted in by corrupt paliamentarians!
if one party is in majority, then that party will always be in power. that’s why ANC hasn’t been replaced in SA.
This debate needs to be cleaned up and made for educational and enlightening by deleting ideas that introduce and are motioned by consideration of negative ethnicity, that disrespect for different view and that introduce consideration of partisan interests and fears and that focus on personality of the presenter than critiquing the merits and demerits of the argument regardless of the ethnicity, personality and party affiliation of the presenter. It is very likely that more open and broader focused minds may better and more fully identify the advantages and disadvantages of competing presidential systems and how to enhance advantages and counter disadvantages of whatever system is finally determined – hopeful on ethnic, partisan and personality basis. This where Zambia has already lost it
You are right. What have the Bembas done? The Bembas have not sent any Bemba to Plot 1. So those who say Bembas practice tribalism have no facts, but are liars, or have inferiority complex or are not proud of their tribe. I am proud to be a Bemba and I am proud to have married a proud non Bemba. Be proud of your tribe. Lets concentrate on creative criticisms and how we are going to build Zambia for our future kids. Leaving politicians alone is not going to help us develop this nation. Politicians from opposition and ruling party have let down this country. It is time for us to make politicians do their work.
SOME COMMENTS, MMMMMMMMMMM THATS WHY UKWA FOUND IT EASY TO WORM HIS WAY TO STATE HOUSE COZ OF USEFUL *****S LIKE JO THE GERGE BUSH. LIKE OR NOT, HH WILL ONE DAY BE HEAD OF STATE. UKWA AT 75, BAYASHI.
A Zambian is either Lunda or Luba, apart from our colleagues from Europe, Asia, North and West Africa. Bisa, Aushi, Tumbuka,Sengas, Chewas, Luvale, Lungus, Kaondes, Solis, Tongas,Luyanas, Kwangwas, Nyengos, Nkoyas, Bemba, etc…are they not just dialets of either Lunda or Luba ethnic groups?
So stop talking about Bemba or Tonga in our political discourse.Let’s discus whether or not it makes economic sense spending on an election re-run to secure a 50% plus 1. Let those who want the thresh-hold score it in the first round like what FTJ achieved in 1991 and 1996.
What we should be crying for is limiting number of political parties to three; there are only three distictive political ideologies, capitalism, socialism, and a mix of the two.
Just join me in calling for federation.