SACCORD urges UPND to allow debate on limit to contest for the Presidency

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SACCORD executive director Boniface Cheembe
SACCORD executive director Boniface Cheembe

The Southern Centre for the Constructive Resolutions of Disputes-SACCORD has called on stakeholders to be civil in their discourse on the proposed Bill to limit the number of times an individual can appear on the presidential ballot.

In an apparent reference to the UPND who have taken the issue with the proposed motion SACCORD Executive Director Boniface Cheembe said there is no need for individuals and stakeholders to use violent communication when debating the issue but that people should be given an opportunity to understand the merits and demerits of the proposed Bill.

UPND chief whip Garry Nkombo on Wednesday during a press briefing held at their party secretariat described the motion as discriminatory and rubbish.

Nkombo said that the proposed motion that seeks to limit the number of times someone stands for presidency is discriminatory and aimed at clamping UPND president Hakainde Hichilema from being on the ballot in 2021.

“Frank Ng’ambi has been squeaking about a private member’s motion which seeks to discriminate against certain people. The unfortunate people of Chifubu should be embarrassed to have such a representative.

“When a Member of Parliament brings a stupid motion like a motion that goes against the constitution then he is an embarrassment. In case you do not know Ng’ambi runs a small company called Fatmols where prostitutes meet. Running a small company is not the same as running a party,” he said.

But Cheembe said his organisation has taken note of the demeaning statements towards individuals who are for the motion and that deliberations should be conducted in a civil, constructive and informative manner so as to allow the public understand and choose which side of the debate they should belong to.

“As SACCORD we have taken note of the motion that has been proposed to limit the number of times that an individual can run for the presidency. We believe that the debate that has ensued arising out this has to be deliberated in a constructive manner that allows for input from all concerned stakeholders or relevant stakeholders in their political process.

“What we want to appeal as SACCORD is that in a democracy were debate is concerned it is important that our leaders avoid using violent communication as we engage in debate. It is important our leaders avoid engaging in character assassination as we debate. What is paramount is that the merits and demerits of the motion be discussed in a constructive manner that allows for people to have an understanding of exactly what it is that various people and groupings are calling for and on that basis to allow our people an opportunity to make an informed decision in terms of which side of the motion they want to belong to.

“We hope that some of the negative violent communication that has been reported coming out various stakeholders is a thing that our leaders will take note of and avoid as much as possible but instead focus on the importance of discussing an issue in a constructive manner otherwise we believe that it is important to allow all individuals, all stakeholders to be able to be heard so that out of it our people can build consensus, out of it we can drive the nation in the direction that the general populace would like the nation to go,” he said.

The UPND has become apprehensive with the debate which was first started by a young politician from the MMD, Prince Ndoyi who said there was need for the country to curtail the creation of dictators and anarchists within political parties.

Ndoyi also explained that the proposed law would help the nation stop power hungry individuals who continue to abuse the country’s democracy for their own selfish interest.

A private member’s motion is in the pipeline that seeks to limit the number of times a person can contest elections.

The debate has drown support from various stakeholders including LAZ, NGOCC and YALI among other prominent organisations who have seen the need to curtail power hungry individuals.

The outspoken young politician has gone further to say the situation in Kenya where Raila Odinga inaugurated himself is as a result of the non existence of such laws that prevent power hungry individuals from over contesting elections.

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86 COMMENTS

    • For once I agree with B R Mumba, Sr. Why is that in Zambia we waste time on useless debate? Why can’t we brainstorm on how we could harvest the rain water for irrigation next year? How can we improve on distribution of farming inputs? How can we prevent disease? How do we create more employment? etc

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    • I am a patriot first and UNIPist second but this law if allowed to move forward will put our democratic tenants in jeopardy and everything member of parliament who will vote for it risks losing the next election.

      Bad people create bad and stuup1t laws … the smart people of the Zambian Enterprise deserve better than this nonsense.

      Please shut this debate down right away … Zambia Is Greater Than Any Single One Of Us ~ B R Mumba, Sr

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    • Very bad motion indeed. Can someone please enlighten me if such a law would be applied retrospectively or it should take effective from the time of passing going forward?

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    • Africans must learn to concoct and cultivate their brand of democracy. Our tendency in Zambia has been to copy everything from the West. Botswana has a particular kind of democracy conducive to their own environment. It has worked for them. It works. And so is South Africa – a democracy more or less at the party level. That too seems to be working well for them. In Zambia, the tendency has been to change the rules of the game, depending on who is playing that day.

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    • HH is barred, the all thing is about him.
      Edgar too, no third term
      Nawakwi, same as HH.
      Nason, same, too many times.
      KK’s son (what’s name?), too many times.
      Miyanda, too many times.

      So 2021

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    • Such a law is overdue and Parliament should also discuss limiting the term office for MP’s to two terms only.

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    • What happens at a party level should not be an issue, but once someone from the party goes national ie President, then we can have the constitution binding. Take the immunity away! That’s what will help protect Zambia not preventing capable people who scare you from pursuing presidency. Should we also say once your job application has been denied thrice then you quit looking for a job? Nay!!!!

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    • HH needs to retire, period. What is so special about him? If he retires tomorrow this debate will be unnecessary.
      You people who are followers of this man need to examine yourselves carefully. This is now becoming idolatry. HH is just a man like you. You can also be president, so learn to detach yourselves from the notion that only HH can be president of the Up and Down party and the country. God forbid, that this happens but what will you do when HH collapses tomorrow from a bad heart? Will you as the Up and Down party commit mass suicide?

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    • KINDLY LET POLITICAL PARTIES DECIDE UNTIL THE CURRENT CROP OF POLITICIANS WITHER OFF. RIGHT NOW THEY TAKE YOUR WELL-MEANING PIECE OF ADVICE WITH A PINCH OF SALT.
      ===================================
      We can say that only HH is in the limelight with this piece of story. As a political rejectamenta, allow him to graciously fall out of favour of his own party. It doesn’t help matters when a handfull of his followers still regard him as their messiah and you try to champion your cause and debate. In an ideal situation, everything is worth debating on.

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    • I think that Zambia needs its democracy to flourish.

      Now, real democracy in a coubtry is not only at national presidency but cuts all levels.

      Why should parties embrace dictatorship and yet promise that they govern the country democratically?

      Thus laws that aim to promote democracy at national level must be extended to every level of governance.

      Why should you be a king in your party and yet promise to uphold democracy at national level?

      When parties train dictator’s, they will sponsor these dictators to statehouse.

      Therefore, this law is the best piece that supports out national Constitution in limiting terms to the office of presidency.

      Every democratic party is expected to support this motion, but those of dictatorial tendencies will exhibit anger.

      If a law…

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  1. Trully speaking Trump or Obama are not the only people who can rule america, but here only one person out of thousands must rule.

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    • How many times did Abraham Lincoln lose elections?So,so many times and yet he is one of the greatest statesmen the World has ever seen to the point that,Obama asked to be sworn in using the same Bible Lincoln was sworn on.Abdullai Wade of Senegal is another example,made a good president despite losing so many times.George Weah too lost more than once.Sata too lost many times,Lungu stood once and won,now the question is,who would be considered a better president so far between Lungu and Sata….or between Lungu and Abraham Lincoln?In my opinion both Lincoln and Sata were perpetual losers yet the social and economic impact they pushed on their people is far greater than these so called ‘winners’ like Zuma or Mugabe.

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  2. This should not be law but should be on personal morals. The countries that we so admire and want to emulate very much respect personal morals. When a leader loses an election they stand down to allow others to try. But in Zambia an election loss is turned into a fountain of bitterness against the victor. This hatred just makes you to cost your party future victories.

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    • KK contributed to the disappearing of Unip because he couldn’t allow anyone else to lead Unip even when the constitution was amended to bar him. He came out of retirement and hounded Kebby Musokotwane from the presidency. That wa the beginning of the end of Unip.

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    • @Ndanje Khakis … KK was asked to stand by Members of the Central Committee and our own internal polling showed that only KK could beat FTJ in 1996, because everything KK spoke about, the looting of state coffers, loss of jobs, unreasonable demise of QZ, the erosion of our own industrial base, massive unemployment etc. were coming to light.

      Kirby was my favorite at the time but he didn’t have the gravitas needed to overcome the power of encumbency. Only KK had it and our strategy was KK takes over and then amend the constitution to allow the VP to take over without new elections if the sitting President resigns.

      KK was ready for that and Kirby was on board. We were immediately going to stop the remaining privatization exercise and people only trusted KK to be the driver for that…

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    • Continued …

      KK was ready for that and Kirby was on board. We were immediately going to stop the remaining privatization exercise and people only trusted KK to be the driver for that policy and MMD’s own polls showed FTJ would lose to KK not the other way round.

      The tragic thing came when KK was bared and UNIP boycotted those elections. And that point, the Members Of Central Committee met again, the idea was to give it a try with Kirby but the MMD were ridding dirty!!!

      They went ahead and printed ballots with KK on them who was already bared and Kirby would have only been a write in Candidate … our young democracy was too confused to handle the complexity of write in candidates. FTJ barely won …

      The next tragedy hit when Kirby died of unexpected ailments and KK’s major…

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    • Continued …

      The next tragedy hit when Kirby died of unexpected ailments and KK’s major blunder was to ask Tilwenji a political novice to take over. That’s when we messed up.

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    • In a democracy, “perpetual losers” (as you say) are banned by the ballot box, not the State! What’s so hard to understand about that?

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    • You can lose 2 or 3 times it is okay but not 5 times and you still want to contest??Come on…let’s be serious bane

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    • i agree with Spuds,we the voters should decide not the state bringing laws with hidden agendas,whay cant we learn from history kanshi mwebantu?
      there are more important things to debate than this rubbish.

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  3. Insults are the hallmark of Dundummwezi culture. Sociallet, and morally, they are differently and wrongly wired. It is said charity begins at home, but when a cultural system does not allow parents to spend quality time inculcating good morals in their children the is the result. Our friends take more time with their animals than children. They end up growing without good behaviour. To them this normal.

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  4. Instead of focussing on looming hunger and the current corruption in PF, you want to start debate on irrelevant issues. Limiting how many times a person contests elections is irrelevant. Debate on removing immunity from prosecution of president to discourage them from stealing from government coffers. Zuma in South Africa has no immunity from prosecution and is currently sweating profusely. Lungu is stealing under your noses knowing you will do nothing. People participate in elections as a democratic right. Should Zambia be banned from participating in Football World Cup because they are perpetual losers?

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    • HH HAS NEVER RULED SO THAT DOES NOT COUNT. OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS 2 TERMS FOR A PRESIDENT NOT FOR A CANDIDATE. LET HH STAND A MILLION TIMES IF HE WISHES STOP MAKING PERSONAL LAWS TO GOVERN THIS OUR COUNTRY. IN FACT SOME OF US STILL WANT THE PETITION TO BE HEARD.

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  5. Atleast maximum of two appearance on the ballot on both party and nation would be ideal.
    What is very wrong in African politics, check out our friends when Mcain lost, John Kerry, they gave way to others.
    In a scenario of Africa why do people not give way for others to lead, are these political parties kingdoms where death do us part with power.

    Lets change our mindsets anyone can rule as leadership comes from God, whether we like it or not. We are all brothers and sisters why such hatred,bitterness, bad words for our brothers.

    I tend not to understand please help me understand surely even a bad leader would one day do something good bad y is it that our leaders just see bad things in others year in year out u mean u never saw any good deeds that others do. We re instead shooting…

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  6. It is a pity how Zambians like issues that do not add value to their lives or let me say which are not a priority. People should be focused in proposing laws to curb corruption and reducing the powers of the executive so we have less interference from the executive. Instead we want to waste time and resource debating laws that are clearly focused interfering with how the opposition want to run their affairs. It is mischievous to propose such a law. Let us instead debate on why the commodities and taxes are skyrocketing under the PF. I wonder if the MPs would also agree to debate a motion that may prevent them from running for more than two terms.

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    • @Ken, its not about what I want people to debate but priorities and real things that are affecting the masses. Even if we had a new law to only allow certain people to stand twice or whatever times you would want, it will not help eradicate the real challenges facing the people which are never addressed or given so much attention!

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  7. how many times should one stand to be disqualified? ECL once stood on UPND ticket as MP in Chawama under Mazoka and lost. He stood 2011 as PF and won. He stood as President twice (2015 & 2016). in total he has stood 4 times. What is good for the ECL is also good for HH. Many times can be more than one. Therefore if ECl stands in 2021 , so must HH,Winter, Nawakwi Nevers, Miyanda..The same law must apply to RB and Kaunda…..
    The whole law must apply to all who stood as either MP or President.
    The irony of such a law is that it favors ECL and his cohorts…..Laws are never meant to serve the rich like ECL. ECL can insult anyone but cant be prosecuted…. Can a medical doctor in Kaoma insult, he will end up in jail….the Law favors ECL.
    Sing a song for ECL even you have a 18 years…

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  8. Sing a song for ECL even you have a 18 years sentence , you can be pardoned after 2 years and thereafter , beat your wife. a defiler is pardoned and a doctor is terribly jail for a law that protect ECL while the defiled girl is not protected at all…..
    The constitution was highly praised and today they are finetuning it whatever that means…………
    let me advise fellow Zambians , that the PF is not a sincere organisation. The IMF does not trust them.
    RATSA is gone, NRDC is gone, Many others …
    They want to bulid a over head dual carriage from kabwe round about to airport turn off and another head dual carriage from kafue round about to Supreme Court…….
    Bane it is sad to have such people in public office.

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  9. Maybe this law will help political parties organise themselves better. It will urge them to rally behind a winning candidate not on an egotistic one who is more likely to lose. It will enhance democratic practices within and curtail dictatorial tendencies.

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    • Zambian Citizen, I beg to differ on your points. First of all the court has never heard the petition for you to term HH a loser. If UPND members do not want to change their party president who are the opposition to push for this?

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  10. Comment:
    It’s quite sad to witness such vulgar language from some politicians. No wonder very few Zambians get enamoured to the politics of UPND. We look forward to 2021 when as ever before UPND will fail to get to state house.

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  11. An indian Company has been given a contract………………..watch the space………….. you will hear more…………….
    Mumbi is building at State lodge so is Father Bwalya……………Amos , Kampyongo, Bowman Lusambo,
    Ba Mukulumpe is worse in buldind…. A truck from TZ was offloading things at Regiment for his building project…….. Dont ask me about the title deed for the House of Prayer to be built , ask ba Bashi T…………

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  12. Never praise ECL… the man has duped Zambians………. he is not humble………… He is being haunted by his deceptive demeanour……….. his conscience is troubled……….. He knows where he belongs……… as much as you praise, his soul is eaten up………… he need to repent just as any hypocrite………………….

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  13. ask ECL if he is more of a moslem than a christain? ask him which church does he go to? Bishop Joshua Banda or Pukuta Mwanza.s church? al least we know Mumbi as Catholic? Chinotela as SDA, Mabumba as SDA

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  14. 13th sense clearly tells us that to be effective in society mechanisms that permeate every sphere need to instituted to lessen dependance on individuals who may disadvantage others due to their standing.
    This a perfect bill which must be enacted into law as it addresses the bigger picture to benefit all. Even those that are pretending to oppose this bill in their hearts of hearts are happy and breathing a sigh of relief. Well done Ndoyi.

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  15. This is stupid. Limits are only needed on served time. There is absolutely no reason for limits on attempts to serve. The person sponsoring this bill is just saying if concourt doent allow me to stand then HH shouldn’t as well. Selfishness and our county’s politicians are difficult to distinguish

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  16. This proposal is counter productive and aimed at one HH. Where is written that one cannot contest several times for office of the President. In the case of UPND, lets us face the facts, HH is the main organize or the flag bearer/ financer and blocking him from standing will entail UPND losing all then gains it has made over the last two decades. As Zambians lets not use our hearts but brains when looking at certain critical things. That is how apherthied started in South Africa. HH is a BIG factor on the Zambian political landscape. How can one individual wake up in the morning and suggest that X should not stand because he has been losing so many times. If one has the energy and resources let him or her join the political arena and prove themselves. ECL is pushing to stand in 2021 and…

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  17. This is just an attempt by Lungu to perpetrate his wanton corruption ,mismanagement and plunder of government money.

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  18. None partisan. As a teacher, when a pupil gives a suggestion/ans in class, you as a teacher don’t shut up the child jst bcoz u don’t see any sense in what s/he is saying. Instead make him/her understand frm his point. Now to our leaders let’s not make laws that will benefit a few and liv the majority hurt. This law at the moment it may luk like you are targeting certain individuals worse still as if you are scared of them. This law I feel it shud be a party law not national. By the way I heard upnd oredy has this law.

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  19. Zambia, my dear Zambia. Why is everything political always about individuals? Why can’t we talk policies that drive development and better lives for our peoples? Enacting laws targeting one private person (not in public office) should not be tolerated in a democracy!

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  20. ONLY A TONGA MUST LEAD UPND says Sejani. This motion must be signed into law without wasting time. When someone loses so many times he becomes bitter and vengeful towards the nation as a whole, look at how Raila Odinga is behaving in Kenya after losing so many times- so dangerously that we cant be shocked if Kenya slides into a civil war because of this man. This is what we don’t want to see here in Zambia. When HH loses in 2021 (which is most likely) what can stop him from behaving like ODinga? already he is a bitter man after losing twice to a new comer (ECL) in a space of one year. HH is going to behave destructively like bembas say TUFILILE MUMUNSENGA ( LETS ALL LOSE) The man has invested heavily in losing so he can just sit and watch, he will plunge this country into political chaos.

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    • @ saimbwende saimbwende
      You are a true patriot, please lets continue on these progressive ideas. One man, and a big loser for that matter through popular rejection on many attempts cannot just impose himself on people. How told HH that he will one day be president of Zambia kanshi? Doesnt he know that after losing so many times they are other 14 million people in Zambia who also want to have ago at it? Please!!!!!!!

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  21. @Pompi i have had the same MP 30yrs here you will know how i have been here. I think MPs is perfomance not performing out period

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  22. ONLY A TONGA MUST LEAD UPND says Sejani. This law will be a safeguard also against anti- democratic tendencies practiced by selfish politicians who feel they are the only better people to lead than anybody else. Politicians like Edith Nawakwi, HH, Miyanda. TIlyenji Kaunda, etc must give chance to others to lead their parties. We have so many young and upcoming politicians who can make better leaders but they are being blocked by these selfish politicians who have turned their political parties into personal to holder properties. We are tired of these guys let them go and new ones with fresh blood and ideas must take over. Therefore, this law is very welcome and is long overdue

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    • @ !mbecile above

      Who is stooping you to put your 5tupid name against Edith Nawakwi, HH, Miyanda. TIlyenji Kaunda, etc?
      Elections are about WILL OF THE PEOPLE, not about rotation of non-coms

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    • from the language it’s easy to tell that @just asking comes from dundumwezi. the proposed law will first and for most stop hh from contesting future elections hence the end of regional politics/tribalism

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  23. The maniacal tantrums that come from UPND politicians is quite baffling. How will they defeat this Bill when it’s tabled? By talking about Fatmols? My Lord, this is why they composed the song “Mu Bemba nguu satana” thinking it will win them the Bemba vote. Garry has overstayed in Parliament, wisdom has left him

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  24. What happens in societies, churches etc and how they chose or retain their leaders is non of my business but on the president , its my business because am affected through the taxes i pay and how am governed. Should we even debate this! Next! Pass the popcorn pliz.

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  25. see how useless some politicians can be,Garry is talking about fatmols what has it got to do with this proposed motion

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  26. Parties have their own Constitutions and should be left alone to deal with their own internal matters – as long as they are not breaking the law. What business is it of anyone if a party chooses the same Presidential candidate election after election? Law change proposals should be made in good faith – you do not pass a law that is clearly aimed at an individual or party. Many a strife and unnecessary loss of life has been caused by such selfish unthinking madness. Why don’t we force our useless impotent parliament to debate real issues; corruption, economy, jobs, auction of the countries assets etc.

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  27. Every Law is aimed at stopping an individual from doing something that adversely affect others…e.g. stealing, overspending and now over losing elections….

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    • losing elections has now become crime? !MBECILE, do you know that political partecipation is a HUMAN RIGHT?

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  28. Strom Thurmond was US Senator for South Carolina for 46 years from November 7, 1956 to January 3, 2003. Why? Because the people liked the way he was representing them. If an MP is effective, why get rid of him?

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    • Do you know that “the people liked the way he was representing them”, he was busy hiding a child he fathered with a black woman?

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  29. PF has some good political strategists. Why do I say so! when ever there is and/or a looming crisis they will start a debate-storm on a non-issue. Look at this non-issue (Limiting of presidential candidates) everyone,especially the UPND have been sucked in and spending their energies on it. Ignore and spend on your energies on issues such as the failed e-voucher system and the looming poor harvest which will culminate to high mealie meal prices and many other failures of the PF.

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  30. Can’t agree more. Let’s limit the number of times. It will remove mediocrity in party ranks. Out with bu muzungu wanga

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  31. Even if passed as law let it be recurrent so 2021 won’t count .second how did Gary know about fatmols and it’s occupants is this where he took his “mates” chick now a servant of the lord?

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  32. It is a miracle!
    SACCORD led by Mr. Chembe was conspicuous with its silence when the innocent man was brutally arrested on trump-up charges. And yet, to-day this fat unprincipled beggar has found voice to support his corrupt master. All this in a Christian (LOL) nation ruled by convicted embezzler supported by corrupt judiciary and an army of Godless “advisers”.
    Mr. Chembe, can we hear your voice on the matters of application of POA? Corruption? Independence of Judiciary? Police brutality? Colonization of the Country by Chinese? Sale of national wealth for private gain? Hunger? Destitution…………..???
    Mr. Chembe. are you a man who supports democratic principles or just another little mongrel who is selling his soul for few pieces of silver?

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  33. A leader is a dealer in hope. Creating that hope in the others that one day they shall also have the chance lo lead.

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  34. It is called ‘check-mate’ in political strategy. PF have a card in case the concourt says no 2021 for ECL. Simple and straight forward. Reminds of the 1978 Ken Rogers hit-The Gambler (if gonna play the game boy you gonna play it right).

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    • Read PART III of the Constitution before blabbing. Parliament cannot make any law contrary to the provisions contained in PART III.

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  35. If this bill goes to parliament then HH,Edith Nawakwi,Godfrey Miyanda will be as good as dead BECAUSE THE BILL SHALL 100% GO THROUGH looking at the high numbers PF has in parliament.PF Govnt works with a lot of independent MPs so UPND should already start looking at HH’s replacement!!
    LAZ,NGOCC and other prominet organization are in support of this bill.look at what Mr Cheembe from SACCORD is saying,its clear that even SACCORD is in support of this bill.
    THIS IS A SPLENDID BILL BECAUSE ONCE MANY ZAMBIAN VOTERS HAVE REJECTED SOMEONE TWICE-ITS ENOUGH INDICATOR THAT VOTERS DO NOT WANT SUCH A PERSON TO RULE THEM!!

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  36. Believe you me,if HH loses in 2021 for a record 6th time,he will surely do what Raila Odinga did in Kenya recently,a thing which may lead to severe politucal violence especially in urban areas and in tongaland against none tonga Zambians living there!!PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE!!No more lives should be allowed to be lost because of one selfish person who wants to impose himself on Zambians by all means!!!CREATING SEMI gods IN POLITICAL ARENA IS A SUICIDE!!so all well meaning MPs should support this bill in parliament!!
    WELL DONE LAZ,NGOCC,SACCORD,ETC!!Zambia is bigger than HH,Nawakwi,Miyanda and Tilyenji Kaunda.we all want to rule Zambia at one point!!
    BRAVO HON.NG’AMBI AND MAKE SURE YOU PUSH IT IN PARLIAMENT SOON!!

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  37. I believe that in a democracy, tolerance should start within the party; and people should see elections (primaries, or convention) within a party like it happens in some South African and Botswana parties, or in the West in the UK and USA. If a party has its president for life, what will the country gain by voting for such “president” to rule it? Let the limit be two consecutive attempts. This will be unique to Zambia. Kenya, Malawi, DRC and Zimbabwe are a disgrace to Africa

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  38. PF is being hypocritical, they have not allowed any one to stand against ECL at their convention stating that he is their sole candidate at their convention. Intra party democracy is lacking in all the parties as at now. What we need is a law that is agreement with the constitution, that is a law that promotes intra party democracy. Right now the major parties have their highest decision making bodies full of appointed officials by the party presidents. Such type of appointments are a systematic way of rigging the intra part processes to ensure that all meaningful competitors are eliminated by a group of appointed officials. The we Propose is one which will not allow such appointments and sole candidate declarations.

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  39. The law to propose is the one that will not allow a person who was merely declared sole candidate by his own appointed officials to be on the ballot. But only the one selected in accordance with the constitution of their party in a free and fair process. The law must demand that all party positions must only be held by elected officials not appointees. And if the position becomes vacant it must be filled the the next elected official in line.

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  40. This is an extremely progressive bill. Lessons from Kenya are enough to allow this bill to go through. Zambia, for sure, is bigger than any individual. @Saimbwende Saimbwende has hammered the nail on the head.

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