PF Deputy Parliamentary Chief Whip Tutwa Ngulube says US-based Zambian lawyer Professor Muna Ndulo has lost touch with Zambian laws, judging by his “flawed” understanding of the Public Order Bill of 2019.
In an academic paper titled “The Public Order Bill, 2019, and the Right to Assembly in a Democratic State”, Prof Ndulo argued that the Public Order Bill, which was crafted alongside Bill 10, was one which sought to constitutionalise dictatorship.
But Ngulube accused Prof Ndulo of “bluntly telling lies” about the controversial Bill.
“Professor Ndulo is out of touch with Zambian laws and I think his comments and several utterances on various issues surrounding this country’s laws has actually demonstrated that Professor Ndulo has lost touch with reality! Professor Muna Ndulo has lost touch with the reality on the ground here, his interpretation of some of the laws in the country has actually confirmed that he has lost touch with what is actually obtaining here in Zambia,” Ngulube said.
“I think he is basing most of his comments on social media as if he is not an academician. Professor Ndulo has been misleading Zambians on a lot of factors, including Bill Number 10. If you look at his own articles on constitutionalism and what he deems to be a good constitution, Professor Ndulo has contradicted what he is teaching people; he is actually bluntly telling lies!”
He argued that the Public Order Bill of 2019 was actually attempting to reduce the powers of the police in the dispensation of the public order, contrary to Prof Ndulo’s remarks.
“If you look at the Public Order Bill of 2019 right now, the Public Order Bill of 2019 is creating an opportunity for feedback. In the Public Order Bill we have right now, there is no provision for the police to give an alternative day [to hold a meeting]. When you give a notification that you want to hold a meeting and the police decide to refuse in the current Public Order Act, the police have no opportunity to choose a second date and also to give you an opportunity to appeal against the decision. In the 2019 Public Order Bill, we are trying to make sure that the police don’t become the judges in their courts. In the current Public Order Act, the police are the final authority when the say, ‘no’ it’s is no!” Ngulube, who is also Kabwe Central PF member of parliament, argued.
“In the 2019 Bill, we are trying to remove most of those powers from the police and share them with society. For example, if a policeman decides that he will not allow Tutwa Ngulube to hold a procession, yet he will allow another person to hold a similar procession in the same vein, the Public Order Bill gives an opportunity to appeal to the Minister [of Home Affairs], and the minister can overrule the police officer and within 14 days, the matter must be concluded.”
He insisted that the 2019 Bill would not lead Zambia into dictatorship as the President and the Executive would not be involved in the execution of public order.
“In the 2019 Public Order Bill, we are making sure that we make a Bill not only for the PF, not only for UPND, not only for those in politics, but even for those in the future generation. So, if Prof Ndulo is saying the Public Order Bill is seeking to create a dictatorship, what does he mean? The President, the Executive, are not involved in the execution of the Public Order Bill. What we have now is a situation where the police have the absolute power; they can act arbitrarily; they can deny you constitutional rights of freedom of assembly and association. But in the current Bill, we are simply saying, ‘look, the rights for citizens to assemble should not be subject to police supervision’. Police should only come in for public safety and all sorts of things,” Ngulube said.
“So, I urge him to read the Bill again and he must get back to reality because so far, the comments being attributed to him, he is slowly losing touch and very soon, he might end up being irrelevant. That is why when we have a meeting on Bill Number 10, all he was looking at was the negatives; he can’t even look at the positives that the government is doing. So, his ability to critically analyze issues has been hampered by his perceived political inclinations because as an academician of such high calibre, Prof Ndulo should offer what we call a critique; he should be able to show the pros and the cons; he should be able to show what has gone wrong; he should be able to show what the advantages are and he should be able to see positives and negatives. All Prof Ndulo sees in what PF is doing are negatives and negatives!”
He urged Prof Ndulo to stop being politically inclined when dealing with important constitutional matters.
“Please, we want to urge him, please, Professor, come back to reality. It is pointless to be called ‘Professor’ when you are failing what other professors are doing. It is important that when people are dealing with important matters, they run away from political inclinations so that we become objective and you see, as a Professor, he commands a lot of respect among his learners and among us members of society. So, he must make informed and well-researched statements before he misleads the public,” said Ngulube.
“For now, we are simply saying, let him read the Public Order Bill again and he will notice that it is anchored on part three, which actually enforces the Bill of Rights. The current Public Order Act does not have any room for feedback; it does not have any room for people to even challenge the police. But in the 2019 Bill, we are giving an opportunity for people to rise against the police based on the judgments we were referring to.”
Source: Diggers
Under the current bill people do not need to get permission of the police to gather but merely inform them of intent
Please clarify again. The public order as it stands today, talks of notifying the police at least 7 days so that they can provide security. If they don’t have capacity for whatever reason, the convener can go ahead if they can assure the police they have enough marshals. The police, other than for sensitive security matters have no right to say no. Because the constitution guarantees the freedoms of assembly.
Secondly, when you say the current bill 10 the president and executive are not involved but same time you say if the police deny the permit they can appeal to the minister, which branch is minister? A minister who is appointed by ruling party? May be, I would argue, why not appeal to another arm of government? In any case, the appeal to be done in 14 days? Iam sure what ever one was…
Let him advise the people in the country he has run away to. He is scared to do so cause there they will put him in his place. So he wants to pick on Zambia. Come to Zambia and join politics and face us head on rather than just being a key board warrior in diaspora. Kz
It’s sad when people we are suppose to be calling national elders become unpatriotic and lose direction. Instead of being in the forefront guiding these constitutional processes, they become political cadres despite their economic and cultural status. Ndulo is a shame to this country. He should be labelled a traitor to his country.
Never wrestle a pig in the mad because it will end up victorious. My advice to Prof Muna Ndulo is not to waste his knowledge in trying to educate pigs on constitutional law in the mad.
PF Deputy Parliamentary Chief Whip Tutwa Ngulube : I can read between the lines that you support Dictatorship. Because that is what all this is about, Its about to get more Power to Lungu so he can be in power for the next 20-30 years and the people cant do anything we loose our voice and freedom
Who should one listern to between Muna and Tutwa?
Neither, I would rather read the Bill myself and make up my own mind!
There was a time I used to take this professor seriously until I realised there is no substance in his arguments. We should not pay attention to such people who are just bent on derailing our progress. Lets move on and get Bill 10 APPROVED!!!
Tutwa was debating with Macdonald Chipenzi not too long ago and Tutwa showed ignorance of the law like a grade seven pupil. What type of lawyer and MP would think independent MPs are not provided for in our current constitution? It took Macdonald Chipenzi to educate Tutwa about the provision for Independent MPs. That’s the calibre of certain boastful lawyers/MPs in Zambia today.
Oh haven’t we heard of enough rhetorical interpretation of our laws from loser ndulo.
Ndulo is a fake.
Anyways laws are sometimes open to public scrutiny.
Let bill 10 roll through though.
Did Prof Ndulo pass ZIALE exams.
The only thing missing in the correct administration of law by ZP is the decentralization of the Police Service. As long as ZP looks up to Eagle 1, you can for get about fair enforcement of the Law.
Tutwa fimo fimo was sued by Mwitwa .Guess who never contested the case and lost ? This is the guy who is lecturing Zambians and thinks he knows what he is talking about . Here is another point .This is the guy that was fighting the PF a number of moons ago .What has changed now ?
There is nothing wrong with the current content of bill No. 10. All the concerns have been corrected. Did anyone listen to Sunday Interview with the UPND MP Prof. Geoffrey Lungwangwa in December? He explained the content very well.
“……will not allow Tutwa Ngulube to hold a procession, yet he will allow another person to hold a similar procession in the same vein, the Public Order Bill gives an opportunity to appeal to the Minister [of Home Affairs], ……”
What if the home affairs minister is a blatant PF cader thug like kapoyongo ????
NGOs , opposition and consumer groups have no chance…..
Yambayamba is the Man! The winning response to all blogs on this article. May someone buy you a T Bone steak lunch.
Chester – Listen to the truth not names.
At least at the rate at which we are going, every one can be out of touch with Zambian, I repeat Zambian Law because what comes out of most of our courts are very new precedents which are unprescedented and this is happening under PF.
If you know he has lost touch with Zambian laws why are you responding to his allegations. If you know someone is not telling the truth you simply ignore that person and that is that.
The ruling from the supreme court have explained it all. There is nothing to review in the public order act. It does not give then police powers anyway to do what they have been doing. Anyway what do you expect from this dunderhead Tutwa.
It is tutwa who needs to read the Bill’s again. Currently there is no provision to get permission from the police but just to notify them but now they want to change that so that police have absolute power to give permission. Secondly there is currently redress through the court of law if you are not satisfied with police response and now instead they want you to appeal to the minister who probably gave the instruction to the police for you not to get permission in the first place.
Muna Ndulo is one of the dullest lawyers I know! I know this man from way back! Personally, I can’t hire this man as my lawyer, EVEN IF I KILLED A FLY. He could lose the case. Professor? My foot! And this man should be ashamed – he cant even put up a credible/ balanced opinion. He just has to be biased in favour of his party (UPND). WHAT A SHAME!
@David Chilambwe, Professor Muna Ndulo we know, but who is Tutwaya Ngulube?
It’s Mr Piggy trying to mislead again.
Muna Ndulo is a professor of law at Connel University law school in New York, USA.
Piggy would have done himself a favor by being quite.
He always trods the blood line. He is like Prof. Hansengu No INSONI. Such cahracters cannot be objective if they are in government or leadership in Zambia. That is why the man they support will NEVER win.
Are you talkin’ about those in UPND as p?
Prof Ndulo is indeed a learned Proffers or. Problem with him just like Prof Hansungule is that they have become UPND Carders. All they do is talk negative about their country. Bill 10 has a lot of good provisions, especially after the last review. Why can’t this Prof talk about them.
You can take a pig from Zambia to USA it will still remain a pig. So being a lecturer in the USA does not make him different from any other Zambian. He is still one of us and plays politics like any other Bantu in Zambia.
“The President, and the Executive, are INDIRECTLY involved in the execution of the Public Order Bill”: REMEMBER HOW PF LEADERS INDIRECTLY INCITED POLICE TO DENY UPND A RALLY ON THE C/BELT IN 2016; THEY APPEARED ON ZNBC SAYING IT IS NOT SAFE FOR UPND TO HOLD A RALLY ON THE C/B BEFORE THE POLICE COULD EVEN DECIDE! “What we have now is a situation where the police have the absolute power”: currently POLICE HAS NO POWER; REMEMBER HOW KENNEDY KAMBA, A MERE PF CADRE, ORDERED POLICE TO CANCEL THE TWASHUKA GROUNDS (KANYAMA) UPND RALLY? “All Prof Ndulo sees in what PF is doing are negatives and negatives!”: PEOPLE SEE THE PF AS BAD BECAUSE OF VIOLENCE, CORRUPTION, INCREASING PRICES OF ESSENTIAL GOODS AND OTHER PERCEIVED NEGATIVES. so utekanye Tutwa!!!
Hmmm so interesting to read the variables of our political THINK TANKS …as astute readers we know what the POA contains and equally what Bill 10 provides too. Former Post owner Fred Membe used to say; THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS . Let us be readers and not just armchair critics….