The following letter was sent to Lusakatimes by one of the readers.He claims it is the alleged letter that President Banda is said to have referred to as evidence that Mr.Magande was going to cancel all debt for Zambian Airways.
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Drama pa Zed yachilamo mwe…..
Zambian Airways IS a private airline. It did a lot of good notwithstanding but it is still a private family business. Major shareholders are the Nchito brothers, sister and brother-in-law and the Post (a recent addition). If the favour Magande is purpoted to be advocating in this alleged letter, is granted, where do we stop? In Chingola, a white Zambian owned a charter airline for years, but has never gone under. The heart of Magande may be right but government is by rules and sometimes these rules are without common sense. Change the law. But as the law stands, he is wrong FULL STOP.
Mr. Saint, your argument has no merit at all. You are putting up strawmen and demolishing them and then turning around and forcing this situation into those little boxes you destroyed. No sir, your white chingolan charter airline is not at the national level the way ZA was. How many people does it employ? Which international and national routes did it service and who are its target clients? ZA can be compared to the copper mines in its impact and just as there were generous tax incentives for the mines investors (because they were foreign), ZA should have got the same treatment. Mr. Magande understood this.
forgive me saint as iam not aware of any law that states that a company operating in zambia private or not cannot ask for financial expediency……could you possibly enlighten me on this one. howcome foreign owned companise can negotiate tax concessions and the lot??
(Continued) So now that ZA has collapsed, what has the country gained? Mr. Saint, look past your jealousy and analyze things objectively. Even the law is subject to interpretation otherwise we would all know EXACTLY what to do in ALL situations without any deviations by anyone. However, that is wishful thinking. The mines are privately owned but they are fully supported by government. Why can’t ZA get the same treatment? Why do we have to change laws in order to support our home grown businesses. So what if the Nchitos own the airline? Is that a sin? Get a hold of yourself man – think, don’t hate!
A question to you the saint ,given that Hon Magande acted misdemeanously as you put it , does his action warrant expulsion from the party and the kind of thirsty for his blood exhibited by MMD gullible youths ? There is more to it than meets the eye .
Well it is nice to see the unfolding events about ZA. First, let me say that Magande could have looked at the firm as indigenous and wanted to help that time he was in office. The other side of the story is that he is no longer in the office, and had attempted to challenge the man in office now. So, what do we see? African politics at play. Magande will be smeared and campaigned against as long as ZA comes up. He made himself an enemy of RB. And he is beginning to pay now. Advice to Magande will be keep quiet and play the card of a reserved man against the system that is determined to destroy you. Never fight now, be seen loyal and holding allegiance to RB and MMD. Man, they will finish you.
looks fine to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think we are missing the point here. The letter is not asking for a deferment for a company that is a going concern. This is NOT Britsh Airways or American Airlines. These guys have NEVER EVER declared a dividend. They have probably NEVER paid company tax. Surely there are better more profitable candidates that can qualify for the kind of support these guys wanted.
They failed to run their company properly guys, they did not make money for themselves or goverment in terms of tax. WHY HELP THEM?
We are not missing the point, it is you who wants to distort the fact. That Nyama Soya accused Magande of corruption and that is what we should dwell on. Do not start fantasising here and bringing issues that you do not know
Stick to the facts man…. stick with the facts…
DO NOT ADD, ALTER OR SUBTRACT ANyY OF THE CONTENTS.
The truth shall prevail
I would rather help these guys than help Shoprite, Game etc. Atleast this was a Zambian company employing zambians and the profits would have remained in zambia. But am sure you would rather see a Tax break ( actually no tax ) for foreigners. By the way these people were not even asking for debt cancellation, but deferment, while all so-called foreign investor who come in and blow us up in the mines dont pay taxes, and neither are they even made to pay for loss of lives! And secondly i dont see any corrupt acts in the letter, but again we are Zambians who like to see everything wrong when its a Zambian doing something. If a foreign company was asking for the same u would have gladly accepted
My point is this. Support a GOING CONCERN not a FAILURE. If Lawrence Sikutwa of Madison who has built profitable company after profitable company asks for help, you help them. NOT these guys THEY FAILED. Do you guys realise that the employees of ZA were not paid for 4 months before it closed? I live with these people, 4 u this is an abstract arguement.
Magande was a good finance minister. This is not corruption. Zambians will one day regret how the Z.A case has been handled. No company grows overnight,even British Airways and American Airlines have been helped before by their govts in the past.Magande was suggesting deferment not debt cancelation.Govt is just politicising the Z.A issue to punish its political enermies.I wonder how govt expects to get back its debt if it pushes for the collapse of Z.A
Guys it is very difficult to make a competent commenton on issues that you read from a news paper that are owned by parties to the case at hand.Unless some of you guys are cadres of one political party it will be hard to understand the politics happening at MMD.
We can however talk about Freds behaviour,I mean Meembe. Meembe wants to make all of us believe that he is some saint incarnet who is self sufficient and will never need help from anybody and grotesque above all is his purpoted self rightoeusness.Correct me if am wrong, not too long ago,Meembe was telling all of us in his paper that he has not saught help from GRZ .I could say moreI think Fred should change.
LAdies and Gentlemen, if this is the letter RB refered to about Magande’s corruption then RB does not know a damn thing about corruption. The language in the letter is so diplomatic and based on important national concerns. ZA could have its own incambarances but this could have been taken care of beside this request. RB should go back to his farm, he knows nothing about national issues.
Do we know that this was the letter referred to by RB? If we do not have that info, then we cannot, can we, make sweeping statements about RB, president mmembe, magande and the lot.
yeah it looks fine to me too . . . i don’t see any crime in the letter! it appears like a proposal to the minister of communicaion/transport . . . if this is what lupiya is calling acrime then he must be very DAWOOO!
i don see any underhand or corruption here. i actuali see wisdom and the right thing that shud have been done. looks like in zambia we are allergic to doin things rightly. shame on the current government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you, friend. I think this guy is in the right position, he thinks creatively for a Finance Minister. The government should give opportunity for such minds to blossom, it’s not a sin to consult people under you, it wont make you look dumb.
I agree that this letter shows a Minister acting in accordance with conventional wisdom as of June 2008, but I would hope that none of us now think in hindsight that the right thing to have done 5 months before the bulk of the global crisis hit was to prop up a company with a massive debt load, rising overhead costs, declining passenger revenue, relatively few non-leveraged assets, and experiencing current operational losses. The only way that that scenario would have worked out well for the taxpayer would have been for the global bubble to continue for at least several more years. Not saying Magande was more wrong than others, just wrong.
Yes… Indeed, if that document is absolutely genuine, there is no underhand m
maneuvers most especially that minister Siliya was kept in the loop. But, however, why shouldn’t such matters as the ZA be redressed and resolved in the cabinet… We as a nation should not allow strategic decisions concerning billions of kwacha determined by one man… This should have to cabinet, call me naïve but I think what affects people and the economy on large scale should be
Observer you are right their is only wisdom in the matter. To make matters worse he did tell the fellow minister do it,but was suggesting.So it was not for personal gain unless there is a
part of the letter missing!!!!!!!
Correction “he did not tell the fellow minister to do it “
I dont see any corruption here, if anything this is a very good business letter. This guy ,for whatever it is worth ,was a very good finance minister and could foresee problems and was only trying to point the minister in the right direction. RB should take time to read this letter very carefully word by word and tell us where the corruption is. RB addresses problems thru the media, it just is not decent .
okay so is this the copy of gov. documents or there is none? what if magande says he never wrote that letter how are we going to prove? maybe they should serialize all very important gov. documents, to prove cases beyond doubt. somehow i feel this evidence is contestable.
I really don’t see anything wrong with this letter. RB and his team better come up with better evidence other than this. This letter does not speak of a debt write off. It clearly talks about deferment and Zambian Airways was going to pay back the money at some point. If this is all the evidence RB has, then Magande is right in saying that he is clean on the Zambia Airways Saga.
Go Magande dont let these people destroy you. You are the only one who can free yourself.
I see nothing wrong here. in fact, sounds very proffesional.
This is all political mudslinging,in this time of technological advancement anyone can write this up, cut and paste signatures,this looks fishy coz its not even on headed paper let alone the construction of english and spellings,surelly Magande’s secretary should have had spell checker turned off then,,,,mmmm a bit fishy and smelly
boy show me some spell checker turned off issue, i seem not to see it. overall, the letter doesnt seem bad but for records sake we need a govt date stamp and these letters are always copied to other relevant offices of whichc this cut and paste staff is not showing. in zambia, we have to wait for the real thing. unlike the ministerial statement dora made which was on the watchdog, this letter is far from being authentic
Not to comment on the actual source of the letter itself, I must defend (?) the existence of glaring typographical errors in Zambian Government official documents as quite typical. e.g. A Ministerial statement was released just recently in which the name of the Ministry was misspelled in the very title of the document (“by the Minister of Commerce, Tarde and Industry”). Official letterheads or discernible watermarks or stamps are quite rare on scanned government docs, nor does the existing equipment appear up to the task of accurate reproduction if they were.
LMAO!!!! Shows how little you know about cutting and pasting!!!
Paliye case, no corruption involved. Clean Magande.
MMD strategy for 2011 is to fire all potential candidates, then Katele will think it is his chance(just like Sata thought in 2001), then a dribbler will arise Katele will be choped… And it will be too late to strategise. Voice of prophecy
Yaba
FRED AT WORK ……..
And what does ‘going around the internet’ mean? You (LT) posted it here, presumably handed to you by some source within the Rupiah Banda government. Please don’t blame this on ‘the internet’.
Like most bloggers have said, there is nothing wrong in this letter. Infact Magande is just doing what we cry for-helping Zambians! Yes ZA was listed but how many times has our government helped foreign countries? Shopriite, KCM? Any one?
Oops! Foreign companies! As far as I am concerned this case has become personal. Just how many times have we cried out to this MMD government to help Zambians. Magande that was very professional. Infact you made suggestions for the numpty minister. Thumbs up!
FRED THE CRIMINAL HAS WRITTEN THIS LETTER…..TO DUPE SILLY MINDS
Sata please let us not demonise our colleagues when we donot even have evidence. Can u prove to us that Mmembe is a criminal? If he is a criminal as u suggest why is he not behind bars. I know Fred has hurt some people in what he writes at times, but I think he must be shown some justice. I have not entirely agreed with Fred but there is need for open mindedness on this issue. Prove ure a sensible Sata and not SATAN!
Why do these people want to destroy innocent people’s image.
There is absolutely nothing wrong or corrupt about this letter. In fact it demonstrates wisdom on how leaders of the 21st century are supposed to deal with issues. You cannot talk about local empowerment when all you do is assist foreigners. Moreover, there is a big difference between DEFERRMENT and CANCELLATION. If this is the evidence RB was refering to in his now famous show, then am afraid we have a very dull leader. The issue is that Magande is a threat to old ways of politicking and leading the nation. The attacks are actually making Magande popular. Am actually begining to love Magande. VIVA MAGANDE!
Just what evryone is saying. Nothing wrong in this letter. Like I have said, he infact made it easy for Silly ya-put across some suggestions. Even my granny colud have been a minister if this is how easy being a minister is.
The is no problem with this letter. No corruption. Magande was making a suggestion.
Money laundering and the Mafia way of doing business is not for the simple minds to understand.Why ask for favours and claim that ” If the situation was normal ZA could have easily borrowed”. Well, I thought they were borrowing and one of the reasons the inquiry has been set up is to determine where the money ZA borrowed from the Lenders went?From the above comments so far it looks like you Zambians can be easily fooled.Its sad.I thought it was only our forefathers who were being fooled by our former colonial masters but it appears to me that even in this information age with lots of ‘educated’ Zambians one can easily fool us and being fooled by your fellow Zambian for that matter!
One intelligent Zambia at last. You are such a breath of fresh air. I mean the man admitted, albeit in a verbose kind of approach, that he was circumventing the standard operating procedure. He clearly stated it would require changing the law to allow MOFED to float a loan to ZA. So then to go around the law, he had to go through a surrogate. Add salt to injury the surrogate does not have lattitude to issue loans. It receives funding from the government for infrastructural development. It is conduct such as this that holds us backwards. In a self respecting systems, self policing bodies, Magande’s action, assuming the letter is authentic, would constitute grounds for dismissal.
LT, if you can’t publish my comments in full please don’t publish edited versions ’cause they don’t express my opinion the way I intend to.I can’t really understand why some fairly expressed opinion is not being published whenever I post it.Thank you.
people on this blog don’t get carried away. What makes you think this is the letter my Party President was refereing to? Our Party President is not that damn as some of you think. We are talking about a full qualified economist with proven track record. I doubt this is the evidence he was reffering to. Just wait for a full report from investigative wings of govt. I have a feeling the Post and Membe released this letter to boost their image. I wonder why they did not release it in their newspaper. Indeed Fred the criminal is trying to Dupe simple minds. If magande is clean, let him and Fred relase all documents on this..rather than this selective relase of documents that suit them
You might be right Mr. MMD Chief bootlicker but what makes u so sure that your president won’t manufacture a negative letter about Magande to prove his point after all his the president, can do anything. I understand all government paper have the mark stamped somewhere like ON GOVERNMENT SERVICE this one has not. How do u know that they conspired with the post to show this letter, magande he never mentioned the post in anyways, the letter says the chief executive not M’membe. Lastly, in June no one knew that Rupiah Bwezani will be the president of Zambia coz we had hope LPM was gone come back so please try to be sincere before trying to undermine someone. You should know that it was in…
You should know that it was in Zambia where Kaunda was declared stateless, where we are capable of creating you a foreigner, make a passport for you and then find relatives for u in a foreign country. All this can be achieved because the president has so much power and no doubt if bwezani can speak like that when firing people i am sure he can manufacture a letter to prove himself, his so undiplomatic. To me zambia is presidentless we only have a manager.
You are sick in your headlet it be examined, you are pure cadre wasting peiople’s time here.
If you were my father, I would dishourn you. A father who bootlicks can never be an inspiration to his children. My opinion. I know cadres don`t like opinions.
“Qualified economist with proven track record” my foot. In the face of an economic crisis what does he do. Hire image builders, increase salaries, go on several foreign trips, fails to come up with a robust budget to meet today’s challenges, pays students (wonder shich budget line was used for this purpose) to support him and one of the most baffling seems to court the decision by ZESCO to increase tarriffs when the last thing you need right now is increasing the cost of production. He even had the audacity to claim that he reduced fuel prices when it doesnt take a genius to know that the fuel had reduced on the international market.
“proven track record” MY FOOT. Let us be serious now.
You could be right. it clearly doesn’t make sense why somebody could be fired over such a letter. There must be something more…….
Government letters are done on Government letter head ….with a Court of Arms on top!!!
This looks fake and has been manufactured by some sympathisers to Magande most likely its Fred Mmembe’s dirty work…. Do you think RB is that dull.. To have dribbled Magande et al !!!LT you are the ones circulating it…so you have to know the source.how was it sent to you.by hand, post, electronically.
Dont fall for these silly tricks. Free advice Close LT and join the POST.
but even the coat of arms can be scanned and inserted in a document. mind u, this could be the raw letter of which the one to the minister (dora) has to be printed on headed paper. for sure all govt correspondence needs to have the coat of arms and also a genuine ref number of which this letter is lacking as i dont know if min of finance has the accronym of MFAL, I expected it to be MOFNP
On the contrary, In govt. you make 4 copies of any letter that goes, 3 copies remain within the Ministry and and only the one going out is on the Govt letter head. The copies are put on different files.The signature on each of the pages is supposed to indicate its authencity including the file number. So the question on its authencity is whether or not it is Magande’s signature.t
yes we do know that RB is that dull and that is a fact
This is a perfect piece of government work it clearly explains the reasons to the solutions proposed. Magande Ulinshimbi(metal) there are no underhand intentions it is clear for all to see…shame Bwezani.
If this is true cope I see nothing wrong . What I can see is wisdom in magande, this is what is hapening world over. RB check your brains before you are humiliated by you dullness.
OK, I don’t know what to think about this letter but I have a few questions.
1. I thought govt letters have some form of logo on them. This one is plain…why?
2. Why is it that there is no “stamp” on this letter??
Because it could be a copy of the original which is supposed to be at MOFNP, the one with the letter head is supposed to be at the MTC. That is the practice.
OK.
Thanks.
I agree carbon copies do are not on letterhead nor are they stamped
#24.2 Also note ” MFAL ” or ” MOFNP” on the letter.Something is fishy about this letter.
This letter would not be acceptable in a court of law as it is a copy. the only one who can authenticate it is the author Magande. And I do not think he would want to do that right now. Where is the report he refers to and who authored it. Secondly on what legal basis is he suggesting to defer the payment of a tax? Magande has no power to do that even with ZRA. It is a crime to evade paying what belongs to GRZ. It is simply theft!!
Can I please propose two Presidential candidates for 2011 Given Lubinda and Ng’andu Magande. What do the bloggers think……?
I think that would be great. Lets forget about the old and try younger people with revolutionary minds!
iwe given lubinda is not zambian. dont agu wth me boy. keep yo reasons 2 yoself. magande is tonga again dont agu wth me. these 2 will neva be presidents. i said NEVA NEVA NEVA AHAHAHAHAHAH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
given lubinda is lozi,and about the tongas,its like u have a problem with tongas..tribalist.wake up my friend,its time to make money in the 21st century rather than hating somebody..
stop day dreaming in zulu or whatever language….wake up
Grade 7 special paper 1
CAT IS TO KITTEN …….AS DOG IS TO PUPPY
INTELLIGENCE IS TO MAGANDE….AS DULLNESS IS TO RB
DULL MAN DRIBBLED YOUR MAGANDE….NO SPACE FOR HIM IN MMD. THE CHAP IS ON THE WAY OUT. HE IS A CRIMINAL. LIKE IT OR NOT HE WILL BE BACK WHERE HE CAME FROM UPND KRAAL….
Magande was not dribbled by the dull one. point of correction. The Greedy people that LPM trusted dribbled the nation. Now the Dull one will dribble his suppoters and bite them hard. ask lameck chibombamilimo and shakas. Becoz power is sweet and corrupts absolutely.
I see why you are backing RB… empty barrels makes the most noise. you should you educate yourself on the facts
As much as we can not see the authentication of this letter, on the face value it looks innocent. It is just proper that a minister should defend the survival of a Zambian Company.
Nevertheless, how many Zambian Companies did Magande protect. Why did have interest in ZA. He is the same guy who sent ZRA to ransack many business because they failed to remit to ZRA due to economic hardships.
Can Magade tell tell why he favoured the rich Mmembe and Nchito and not the small kantembas in our Compounds?
I can smell a rotten rat or a Denkete Ng’ombe somewhere in this matter. There is more to it than meets the eye.
Bloggers do not be judgemental. Analyse the situation. Do not condemn Magande…
you are saying do not be judgemental on RB while at the same time you are being judgemental concerning Magande’s actions. things are either black or white and not shades of grey… Magande is clearly a great leader and Zambians and RB should be thanking him for his service to the country rather than trying to tarnish his name… RB needs to stop being an AH and start being a president.
Looks poorly word proceesed and scanned and missing an official government stamp. This looks like the product of someone’s vivid imagination to rile up some feathers. I sure hope the person was not dumb because documents made on a computer all have a unique identity and this person may easily be traced. I think it’s against the law to acquire government documents or impersonate a government official in many countries including Zambia
Continuation ……
or RB.
They have something between themselves and they should not use us to fight their battles of Presidency. We shall vote for one of them.
overall, the letter doesnt seem bad but for records sake we need a govt date stamp and these letters are always copied to other relevant offices of whichc this cut and paste staff is not showing. in zambia, we have to wait for the real thing. unlike the ministerial statement dora made which was on the watchdog, this letter is far from being authentic.
we need to be serious LT
wuuuuuuuuu! so where is the corruption? Magande has always said he is clean and surely he is. I cant see any wrong in this letter. Magande is not a saint but I think the accusations againist him now are marely political manouvours. All sane people can see through this. Magande has my vote!
wait a minute pipo. June 2008 had a lot of goings on including the illness of the late and the secrete travels to and from france and the silence over the stae of the late. I can continue ‘speculating’ but then it makes sense for such aletter to suffice if its true that the ‘family tree’ had shares in ZA
On “.He claims it is the alleged letter that President Banda is said to have referred to as evidence that Mr.Magande was going to cancel all debt for Zambian Airways”, it will be a shame is President RB BAnda was referring to this letter.
I am waiting for President RB and his Administration to provide their version so that we can PROVE on seeing their claimed evidence that they are right or wrong.
As regards to the above letter, all I can write is that Mr Ng’andu Magande is a galant man of Zambia. The man did his part and even wrote that the the Minister of Transport and Communication was free to follow the option outlined.
This is given in “We have provided a possible solution to the situation as indicated above and you are free to explore that option. With the suggested way, the negative financial impact that will be created by the deferment will be mitigated and NACL will be able to operate smoothly and be able to expand its resource base as a result of the growth of Zambian Airways operations.”
My next concern is that does the Minister of Finance have an upper position than a Minister of Transport and Communication? Are the two mentioned Ministers equal in terms of level of authority?
The letter indicates on several points about “GOVERNMENT” thiis and that, was Mr N. Magande the head of…
Morning maice Maestro. Done your report already?
oops! Mwaice!
Still doing. I am submitting at 12:00 hrs sharp tomorrow. I just like to relax after studying for about 10 minutes.
Later.
If there were any corrupt intentions, of course he would not be expressing these to Siliya. I thought the problem was that he supposedly used his political status to facilitate fiscal exemptions for the company? There are plenty of private businesses, with better financial management and accountability, that ZA who aren’t exempted from paying tax – how did it manage to accrue such hefty loans before someone put a stop to it?
This man is the only hope for zed. The ‘ DRIBLAS’ are trying to destroy YOU SIR, STAND FIRM MONEY HAS BEEN CIRCULATED ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO CADRES TO HAVE YOU OUT OF MMD. THE SAME WAY THEY DID IT THE LAST ELECTION YOU HAD. GOD HELP ZED. GO MAGANDE GO.
If this is the letter Magande wrote then this explains why this man is hated by the RB government. This man is a genius. However, like many bloggers have noted, the source of this letter can not be trusted as it leaves room for manipulation. Its not a goverment authentic letter as it has no GRZ letter head and a stamp from the MoFNP.
But if its a draft of the original, then all I can say is VIVA MAgande
With doubts in mind as to the authenticity of this letter. The Problem is all Magande’s. This man was a farmer, or was working somewhere very far from Politics before Levy took him the the Ministry of Finance&NP. He was no Politician at all. After tasting Politics and wallowing with them in a can of worms, the wolves have now come back to the den and told him he is unsuitable to their agenda. The wisiest to do is to pack your Katundu, and your supporters quitely and go where your contribution will be appreciated. MMD is not democratic, but is a party full of Cadres and Kaponya’s. If they were a democratic party, how could they victimise people for exercising their birth right? we Chalo…
Zambia should help zambian companies survive not just foreign and ones like chinese investors. Zambia don’t give away your inheritance to outsiders it also belongs to your great great grand children. The letter is fine to me. Only problem is whether the onwers are clean?
Zambians you should know by now that it`s easy to get a government headed paper, and, yes even a stamp. People have “legally” obtained the green passport already. It seems we have been spoiled by the availability of things in places we are now. Do not forget stationary walishupa pa Zed.
Mwaice Maestro good morning. Done your report yet?
Ba-nkothe 3RqU, I am still busy working on it. Thanks for the concern.
I am scheduled to hand it in at 12:00 hrs tomorrow – Friday.
Have a good day.
This is what we need from Ministers, able to provide solutions that will protect Zambian companies. And not all letters are copied to everyone else as some bloggers seem to think. Having been a senior Civil Servant, there are some letters that are circulated on a need to know basis and only between ministers and directors and not circulated to hundreds of other people. Viva Maganda
Magande was doing the right thing by trying to protect zambian airways from collapsing. In fact this is what is happening in America and some european countries, they are trying all possible means to keep the local companies afloat. This is the spirit we should embrace as zambians rather than trying to give tax concessions to foreign companies who end up running away after making enough profits for themselves.
Someone please give Bwezani a dictionary. It says DEFERMENT not WRITE OFF. Deferment means delaying to a later date.
Mangande like the army commanders must go to court and prove his innocence.
Good intentions by Magande
If this letter is authentic,then Magande’s plan was sensible.He did not consider a debt cancellation but asked for the debt to be deferred because it was a ‘win win’ situation for both major creditors & the airline.If the airline sunk as it has now,the creditors have limited assets they can recover especially if the airline is a PLC meaning they were going to lose out & it seems they have lost out no wonder everyone is calling for the prosecution of the Airline’s Directors if necessasry by change of legislation.
Anyway,let’s wait for the tribunal,i think the govt will be shamed.I suspect this letter came from State House sources who seem to be monitoring LT & The Zambian watchdog.
Those loans should have been secured.How did Creditors allow this exposure ? What was the Asset base at that time ?Let’s wait for the investigative wings to finish their work.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this letter unless RB is dwelling on some rumours we are not aware of.Mr Mangande’s advice to Dora is sound and is similar to what Gordon Brown is doing to save major corps from going bust.Similar to the rescue plan being implemented by the US govt.I personally have a lot of respect for thge former minister and in my opinion is one of the best Zambia will ever had.Maybe RB does not understand what corruption entails.It is rigging elections and pretending you won;giving sugar to villagers to win their vote;handing out cash on womens day(teach them to fish,don’t just give fish to them);allowing your sons to import GM food just so they can make quick money etc.
I couldn’t have put it any better than this!
exactly, RB this is what we call currption, it seems you forget so easly.
The govt of Banda has recently increased duty on importation of mobile phones & related products,this was meant to boost a new mobile telecommunications company that has just been opened,it is alleged the company is wholly owned by Zambians,The Post newspaper claims it’s partly owned by Banda’s son which means Banda is playing double standards.
It’s also high time these Ministers & the President were also checked,Banda has donated K50 Million to the national team,where did he get it,can he prove that he got it from his savings account,this is what leaders in developed nations do,am sure it was not his personal money.
This Cash pres has got a habit of flashing money in any form.Maybe that’s how he managed to acquire a ‘paediatric’ missus.Guys why don’t we just host him here in the UK and queue up for the £££?As long as it is in GBP lol
The Post wrote “son” (inverted comas) Pleeeeeeeaz!
I hope he is not taking Mr Chiluba’s example of being generous with brown envelops that we heard about during Mr Chiluba’s time as Zambian President.
This is the sort of candidate MMD should have picked.They would have ensured continuity after 2011.
There is nothing with this letter at all. Mr. Magande was merely putting suggestions on how to save the airline and jobs. He never proposed that in the event that he became President he was going to let ZA off the hook. RB is a liar. Period!
amen
So let me get this straight. Magande asked Dora to defer the payment of charges to NACL. If Dora thought it unwise, why the hell did she agree?
This is what I like. A blue print. Let me read and will also print it out if necessary.
There is nothing wrong this the letter!! There is a lot of sence attached and such sound reasoning is expected from a government official!! Magande I am begining to like you. You are in my prayers.
this letter was written by an intelligent man.I think in Zambia the illiterates control the system any good idea is shot down, any differing of opinion results in the head of state firing that person or expelling them the party he did not found.MMD cadres are serious bootlickers who follow blindly.What a pity Magande was not elected as MMD president perhaps for once someone with brains would have lead the country.Alas the intellectuals are exiled form their own country – (I can’t go to Zambia because I don’t have the govt sanctioned new passport)
this is very embarrassing, this is the very reason why a presdo needs to confine himself rather than barking with pipo in public like our RB is doing. i wonder whether RB even read the whole letter, just assumptions to save himself. i think Magande was/is right. flights to zed are now hell expensive, you would rather catch a train from SA(if there is one) … hehehehe
Dont poloticise the ZA issue……..what’s wrong with the folks in power?Magande was a good minister and he is a vibrant economist………the problem somehow also has been a fault of the ZA management.Can someone explain how ZA managed to accrue that debt?I think before we understand that,then it’s very difficult to take any position on this matter.I personally cant understand how a company which is almost a monopoly can manage to go bankrupt.Someone has to give some explanations here………but all the same politicising this issue is not and will never help out!!!
Without delving into the authenicity of the letter, I am just amazed that people dont see the overall message in context. The suggestion to save ZA despite the real issues of ZA Mismanagement is a serious oversight. To suggest to support a mismanaged company despite ills is irresponsible.
Can you enlighten us then on the exact “mismanagement issues” which led to the down fall of the airline. We are quite aware that the aviation industry has been experiencing a bad patch forcing even the big established airlines to even merge with others to stay afloat. The letter acknowledges the adverse operating environment that had emerged and was negatively affecting the airline by increasing its operation costs to unsustainable levels and proposed DEFERRMENT. People need to come up with substantiated claims on exactly how ZA was deliberately mismanaged and not only citing loans. Obtaining loans is normal in business.
Hmmmm! interesting
But honestly speaking, in my view this letter is fine! So if this is the document your president was referring to…then there should be something wrong with him
Are you Zambian following your “So if this is the document your president was referring to…”? President RB Banda is the Zambian President of all Zambians whether they voted for him or not in their individual capacities.
Have a great day.
Maestro, with due respect , RB is not my president!
Alright, I will thus not consider you as a Zambian. Sorry, I just thought that you are one of us Zambians. Keep well and have a blessed day.
Maestro Good day to you too. RB aint my president too. Am zedian with a green passport.
Thanks, greetings and take care ShiMaster. You point has been noted.
Baby C have you accepted RB to be you President as well until 2011? They please say Yes!! I will the say that he is also your president.
Maestro maybe when i come back to Zambia, i will reluctantly consider him as my president.
OK.
”
Life is what happens to you while youre busy doing other things”…….. this was said by Lenon i think and its exactly what we find ourselves in today. A thousand jobs are lost and the MMD reacts by sacking two Ministers, another couple of thousands of jobs are lost, and the MMD organises students for a solidarity march. MInes will be closing in april and RB has a perfect answer ……. sort out the Post! Where is the diversification they were preaching about every day? Find solutions and not scapegoats bakwetu!
I dont think this letter is genuine not just because Magande was a hard working minister. The Global crisis began about october last year which is 2008. This letter is talking about a Global cris yet its dated in June. In June there was no talk about Global crisis and if you remebr very well the only thing that was being talked about was about food shortages in other countries and ZAmbia had food in abundance and had a bumper harvest.During that time the Zambian economy was performing very well the Kwacha was appreciating but what this letter is talking about do not correspond to what was happening during that time. Global crisis began in the U.S and they had no foresight about it, but this
Iwe a bad captain only alerts his passengers that the ship is sinking when it hits the bottom of the sea, a good one with foresight will sound the alarm before there are signs of sinking. Did you want Magande to wait for America to announce that there was a crisis before taking measures? Besides wasn’t there talk of a recession way before that, I guess you were busy listening to RB assuring you that Mwanawasa (MHSRIP) was stable. Yes I’m sure the economy was stable wasn’t it. At least you now know what stable means.
Some good observation. However, the aviation industry was the first to be hit by the financial crisis because it was around the same time that fuel was costing $147 per barrel. A number of air lines around the world felt the effect and its was around the same time that some stories where being published about ZA in the executive issue (July,August,September Editions).
Let’s not restrict ourselves to the words ‘global’,’financial’ & ‘crisis’ these words are used on a daily basis.The aviation industry worldwide started having major problems mid last year when the price of fuels kept going up,many big & small airlines folded up & when you read the letter above,it’s not talking specifically at the glocal economic crisis we are having now which has been perpetrated by the credit crunch.Magande was talking about the unstable price of fuel which was causing problems to all airlines so he suggested that govt mitigates the effects on ZA which although a private entity was of national interest as it was the only major airline in Zambia.
letter shows like foresight was seen even by the Zambian please stop the liars guys.
The denial for a survival plan for ZA, was based not on the merit of lack of it , but on sorting out perceived enemies – The Post. And this is on account of the shareholding they have in ZA! If it makes business sense to help a strategic entinty, go ahead m’fwetu! Besides, the same folks gave tax holidays and other concessions to foreign companies and what did we get from that. Those furniture, clothes shops et’ al just filled our living rooms with clatter and took off before we could say OBAMA.
Gazzie, long time! hope you are great!!!
i doubt if this letter is real,look at the signatures people on each page,they are deferent from the one at the bottom,again on the last page,there are some mistakes in grammar.kaya mwandi
The letter is ok, I can’t see any trace of corruption! The problem is that we seem to support govt’s position to give incentives to foreign companies. Bravo Magande!! MR CLEAN!!
I think somebody in goverment wants to push the idea of nationalising ZA so that they can try to buy it off again. Magande’s words were clear. He was not even imposing his ideas, but just suggesting what seemed a viable survival option.
GaZZie says, in case you forgot, today is a day for the youth. And you know what we have to show for it? …… VJ back in Parley, not-so – Jazz Chikwakaw ku northern fimo fimo, William Banda as advisor fimo fimo and a 72 yr old presido, who has no idea what time it is!
This is classic Zambian Youth representation in decision making.
This Minister was a real economic manager. Surely Dora siliya, couldn’t she comprehend such elaborate piece of advice? That is why passing GCSEs and getting a degree at UNZA alone does make one a manager and suitable for ministerial duties. If Dora failed to see sense in this letter then she honestly DOES NOT deserve to be Minister. I do not care about her ability to memorise and obtain a rot learning BA but reasoning is shallow and she should not be there.
Which part of deferment does nyamasoya refer to as cancellation?
Now that i have vented some issues that had me pent up, i can safely say happy YOUTH DAY bloggers ….. and hey GazziE has seen y’all old mates, pliz check the press for more details on when GazziE will officialy be back.
YOURS IN THE BLOG
GAZZIE(umugazebo)
LT. GENERAL SECRETARY
Too bad you are gone.I have been looking for you.Hope next time I will be able to find you on the site.
I am ashamed to be represented by such crop of leaders in government i honsetly feel we can do better. There absolutely nothing wrong with the letter that Magande wrote for all I care he may actually be a better President given the chance from the reasoning power he has displayed in this letter.
Editors of Lusakatimes, Publishing hearsay documents especially zambian government documents can make you liable to be investigated and prosecuted. You are also likely to be liable for slander lawsuits by publishing rumors. This is the second time you have used rumor mongering journalism. Becareful that you do not expose yourself to lawsuits and prosecution.
Hey Zambian are you really concerned about Zambia because if you are you will realise that this is about vindicating Magande versus the attacks he has recieved from high placed people in government instead of you rushing for libel, rather judge for yourself if there is merit in the current investigations instituted by government by the contents in the letter.
Kasman, It is gutter journalism to begin publishing rumor mongering on the internet. Beyond that it is also possible slander in the court of law. If you publish documents from the zambian government it is even worse. The editors of the Lusakatimes.com will get themselves in big trouble if they begin thinking they can publish any document sent to them by ‘readers’. The last time a government cadre sent them MMD propaganda documents. This time it is the opposition sending them propaganda documents. They editors of Lusakatimes.com can be sued for publishing GRZ government documents.They can also be sued for publishing rumors that slander individuals. Think before you publish.
Zambian why are you visiting sites that produce “gutter rumour mongering journalism” Aren’t there descent sites with professional editors that you can visit?Leave this crap LT site to people like us. Just curious who is being slandered in the letter? I think Magande has been vindicated and now MMD cadres have to find another way to tarnish his image.Zambia will never develope with the likes of you always crying for lawsuits. VIVA MAGANDE ABASH MMD cadres, VIVA a free Zambia,VIVA an intelligent president for 2011,ONE ZAMBIA,ONE NATION
bob doe,
I visit Lusakatimes.com because they consistently and professionally aggregate news sources relating to zambia in a credible manner. There are two incidents that demonstrate a descent into gutter rumor mongering journalism. The first is when they published a hearsay propaganda document for an MMD cadre last week. The second is when they have published a GRZ document that clearly break laws in zambia. Further, publishing documents from ‘readers’ of Lusakatimes.com that involve character slander means this site is breaking zambian slander laws.
No bob ,,i think what zambian is implying is correct. because for all we know this may not even be the real mcoy. quite simply it hasnt been authenticated as yet, so its basically a printed piece of paper as it is, that anyone with a good eye and hand cordination can do. it therefor will be good investigative journalism to site proven facts with proper back up “i said you,,,, saide sort of stuff”….just like we should be informed wether the new mobile phone plant is a manufacturing or an assembly plant because quite frankly the two are very different….
LT these are the stories we want.There is so much noise about expelling Magande, Magande aligning himself with the wrong crowd etc If this is the letter he got in trouble for I think there is a village missing its idi-ot . I see nothing wrong. The problem with us africans is we like hiding the truth from people, its good the truth is coming out now.You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
if this letter is valid, then i don’t c any corruption here. its mentioned that the money would b paid back…..anyway maybe there are more secret letters involved….lets wait and see.
but i suggest the investigations should go on…
As professional as ever Magande warned Dora what was coming as she is so damn to see clouds before a thunderstorm. Now that we all know there is nothing sinister about a minister suggesting to another minister how to save jobs in her industry, lets hope this is genuine and authentic, we can show support to good meaning Zambians. I have a feeling RB thought the whole nation will ask for expelling Magande, and the opposite will happen. And if Dora is guilty in her probe, we want her fired and expelled from MMD. The same principle being applied here. Magande put Zed on the map, even IMF asked RB to re-appoint him, but a coward and petty man he is, hes persecuting him.
Ok guys if this is the letter there is no corruption and there is nothing like Magande was going to cancel the loan whoever was saying that does not understand english or doesnt understanding what is happening. ZA was asking for a deferment this means in other word like to carry forward or to tranfer to a later date. And in this case it they were planing that if ZA starts to bring in more money the date is drawn back for instance if they were defered to two years and they start making more money before two years it could be brought to a year. Its a win win thing. If this letter is a genuine one then the it shows this person has a heart for our beloved country.Look at investor confidence,etc
Blogers,who do you want to be Zambian president in 2011?So far we have 1.RB
2.Sata
3.HH
any suggestions?
Hmmmm! for now….none of the above papa! lets see if new parties will spring up in late 2010 or early 2011 and then will decide!
HH certainley not for me,the man simply has to win my confidence. so far ive heard very little from him to suggest he is a capable hand.I mean were is his vision?? mind you we need individuals that can show a real strategic upraisal. he obviously seems a nice man,,,but leading zambia ,iam not convinced ,, “the search continues”
Whats in the letter was a proposal not a direction.If this is the letter then i am wondering what RB was talking about meaning he doenst understnad whats happaening in the country.He is upto something else.Otherwise this letter is very clear not confusing.It has good intentions in it.Take time and read it carefully understand it.There is no corruption or bad intentions.
What nonsense,there is nothing wrong i have seen in that letter.Magande was only being professional and not peddling vindictive politics.
I really hope there is another letter somehwere! Because if this is the letter RB was refering to, am afraid many people will be punished for doing the right thing.
76 please do’t forget Mgande and Prof Chirwa.These are the ones I will be looking out for.
These two candidates are experts in their own fields.The ones who stood last time should not be allowed to again.Let’s have fresh ideas.
This is a scanned document so expect anything.
You can see why Levy wanted Magande for president. We Zambians always have a way of shooting ourselves in the foot. Just like on Chiluba and Wina, we opted for a stinking Iturian bushman. See, Magande has more brains than Rupiah, Dora and all MMD party cadres combined.
Everyone seems to have an opinion or comment, some very valid other too emotional and not looking at the facts.
You may be right that the letter proves Magande was not being corrupt,as funds were not necessarily being solicited. However the question still arises, why favour Zambian Airways over any other big Zambian company that has folded.
It is not a publicly listed entity that is running on public shareholders funds, but rather private individuals, who by all measurement are more comfortable than any of us writing on this site.
Some of you claim that they employed Zambians, yes they did however not at a senior level all the pilots are foreign apart from one or two pilots
Lets be…
Yes the letter vindicates Magande, perhaps ZA was favoured because it was the only Zambian airline. The people who made a mistake were those who named a private airline Zambian Airways. When people abroad hear Zambian Airways collapsed they don’t think of Nchito or Mmembe they think – Zambia. The humiliation falls on Zambia, investors think of Zambia- not Nchito. Perhaps Magande was trying to save our Zambian face. The airline was however badly run. How do you accumulate so much debt and still cry for more. so if there is anyone to blame its not Magande – leave the dude alone, its the Management of ZA to blame.
Read Magandes Advice properly. How many these vima foreign investors have we given Tax concessions and they run away after they loot us?
Get so serious mwana. You are damm Zambian.
And by the way, do you know of any Zambian Pilot today who is not working?
Yes if this letter is authentic indeed, I think it is. We are a land locked country, In my opinion a powerful/reliable local airliner would help us to export and import goods and services easily. This would be beneficial because we want to diversify the economy(Manufacturing, Farming,Tourism,etc.) and therefore accordingly ZA was the most promising Airliner since FJT (MHSRIP) liquidated QZ. And its just wise that the Minister wanted to protect it. As the minister points out its a strategic company. Even if finally it folded and went under, thanks to MMD politicking, his gesture was well intended.
So is this letter evidence enough to incriminate Magande? If so, what is the charge?
I think RB and other people in MMD (with presidential ambitions) fear Magande for the 2011 MMD Presidential elections. Truly, how many people are still in MMD today but have corruption and financial embezlement cases? We all still remember how Katele Kalumba went into hiding and even used black magic to avoid arrest over stealing public resources.The man is still in MMD.
This letter, be it authentic or fake is fine by me. I am unable to find any trace of corruption it. More so I don’t see the Post, Mmembe or Nchito featuring anywhere in this letter
Sata loses application
…then abandons presidential petition
By JOSEPH BANDA
THE Supreme Court has thrown out an application by Patriotic Front (PF) president Micheal Sata for a recount of ballot papers cast in the October 30, 2008 elections won by President Rupiah Banda.
Delivering the ruling in the application for a recount of ballot papers, deputy chief justice, Ireen Mambilima said the court had refused to grant the application because it was premature.
Sitting with judges; Dennis Chirwa, Peter Chitengi, Sandson Silomba and Marvin Mwanamwambwa, Ms Justice Mambilima said Mr Sata was at liberty to apply for an order of recount, which the court could only grant if there was…
How much money was to be put in to make it viable? The fact that it was not performing well is enough reason to have let it fold naturally. Why put money in an unviable business which at best was mismanaged? The fact of the matter is that we as a country cant afford to support enterprises that are way too indebted and mismanaged. Think about how much the executives were being paid compared to the average worker and you will understand that this company was bound to fail. To support it mearnt supporting and justifying the imbalances at the expense of the Tax payer. For what? For a mere name?
The average blogger has proved for more that once the inabillity to make correct judgement. The letter to an average blogger is harmless but to a serious mind, it was a recipe for disaster. You cant for goodness sake twist things to suit a few greedy people, for that at tax payers expense. The money already poured in was huge enough to decapitate them further, what guanrantee was there that further loans and time would have proved different?
The fact that it looked like an enterprising business is not reason enough to justify illegal financing. Which collateral was sufficient to support their abillity to acquire such huge loans? To support such a scheme is to justify and legitimise theft of public money. Mangande if he authored this letter will have to justify why he was supporting and coaxing situations to suit a fraud enterprise.
UNDERTAKER
Even if Mangande was to stand against a frog, he would lose. Mangande is a nonentity. The facts on the ground cant be understood by an average blogger as has been proved so many times. The POST weave lies that fit well into vices of vultures and blind followers. How can a whole minister justify wavering tax payment for a scheme that was founded on fraud? What matters is what the courts will say, not what sentimentality and emotionalism will fake out. You cant justify the survival of ZA at te expense of the Tax payer when clearly te base is rotten. You can launder money and claim that it was clean all the time.
Analytical thinking lacks greatly in the average mind, no matter how far they may have gone in school. If the foundation is rotten, how can the structure be said to be firm. To encourage, favour and relax measures for a loss making company without a detail survey of its viabillity is gross incompetence and sheer banditry. The credit crunch is simply a convenient excuse to fall on for now but time will tell that the problems in ZA were far less related to the credit crunch and more of mismanagement. How can anyone prove to me thata full time lawyer with his hands full would be still a performing executive of an Airline company dispite the facts that the airline business is a specialised one?
You sure got an OPINION there man! But the fact is these guys want him out of MMD using this letter in which in my OPINION he justifies his suggestion/request to Dora. In this Dora also had a choice. TIA for real!
Not that he is not qualified, Mutembo specialised in commercial law at LLM level. It is just that his hands were/are full, juggling ZA business and his legal business.
Working on the assumption that this is a genuine letter very unlikely though unless verified by author ,one would say the allies of Hon Magande are a smart lot to have released this document.As the drama unfolds ,the cry for Hon Magande `s blood by the MMD hooligans will be abated awaiting fresh instructions on to mud sling Magande .If this document is genuine it has indeed given MMD cadres emotional diarrhea .
Ok for once let us reason and suppose that ZA was given another 3 years to pay its accrued dues, would they manage to pull off? The answer is emphatically no! They have quit operations out of their own volition without even the litigations against them. Time is ticking and nothing is taking place, and how on earth were they going to manage to pay their debt? Wha Mangande was getting at was further grants nad loans. Nothing else.
I disagree with you. What Magande was trying to advise was that by allowing ZA to operate, NAC would have a grenuine claim for financial assistance for infrastructure development at its airports. There was every hope that as a monopoly for local routes and a few international ones, ZA was going to build capacity of given some relief for a given period, The obvious next step was that once such relief is granted, govt would have had to monitor ZA’s operations. Perfect economic sense to me and I don’t see anything political in it. Do not use politics to interfere with the economy. You will be Zimbabwe soon.
The simple fact is that proper assesors and not gas filled, emotional bloggers will do the needful. This Mangande has over rated himself and thinks he is clever when we can clearly see through him.
He did the right thing ,however i feel the letter could be fake.
The best bet that ZA had was to ultimately involve GRZ as partners, there was no otherway about it. That is the way Mangande was approaching the issue. But the problem was how to justify to go about it without raising eyebrows.
Mngande chose to overlook the sinister arrangements ZA was engaged in and instead saw it as a country flag carrier. Mngande assisted ZA to obtain loans inspite not meeting basic criteria. ZA did not have viable collateral to enable it to get the type of money involved. It was bound to fail and so it has failed. That is enough proof that it was not a viable business and basically mismanaged.
#100 It is a known fact that there are numerous unresolved issues about ZA, and there is an issue at hand that is did Hon Magande as a Minister of Finance then act corruptly ? the obvious answer is NO . Did he then act objectively ? this is debatable . Did he have a bias ? equally open to discussion .What we Zambians want is the truth to come out let the investigating agencies give us their findings and whom ever is found guilty let them bear the consequences ..remember some family man/woman depended on Za for their livelihood which they can no longer do only having economical fasting now.
MAGANDE DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG IN MY VIEW. HE ASKED AND PUT FORWARD HIS SUGGESTION TO DORA. WAS THAT WRONG?
LETTER AGAINST MAGANDE: Bwezani na Dora are circulating malicious information about Magande. Where are we going with our country. We are busy bikering at the expense of development. This is the price you pay for employing retirees. The guy (Bwezani R. Banda) is 73YRS Please, he is so occupied with fighting Magande for challenging him. ARE THERE NO YOUNG ONES. VIVA 2011
i don’t see anything wrong with Magande’s letter. He is not saying he is cancelling the debt, but rather defer it. Chizungu guys, Chizungu.
SHOPRITE etc were not helped. These companies were invited to come into the country on specific terms and those terms included tax freedom for a period. Anyone who pays tax can negotiate with the Taxman (Finance Ministry) how to pay the tax they owe. The situation here is slightly different in that ZA, a PRIVATE company, owes the taxpayer through indebtedness incurred during the course of business with state owned enterprises. Now imagine the debt was to the Judiciary, would the Finance minister be in order to write to the Justice minister to ask for deferred payment of bail, for whatever reason?
This is where we go wrong as Zambians. We abrogate or circumvent the law by favours. Once a favour is given, the person so favoured comes under an obligation to return the same in due course. That is where the issue lies. ZA is not the only company that had a rough ride and will not be the last. The question is simple. Where do you stop if you help privately owned companies financially or otherwise. Would you go on to help Charalambous Transport who employs so many people because diesel prices have gone up? What about Choma Milling because electricity tariffs are high? Where do you stop?
Mr N. Magande then operating as Minister of Finance had nice forecast as he envisioned the Zambian Airways was capable of repaying the money in 2 to 3 years time – a time a new government would have been preparing to come in.
This is the way leaders MUST work. The MMD wants us to focus on 2030 when their MMD comes to an end in 2011. We as Zambians need leaders who will be able to work in 5 year plans to develop our great Nation.
And so, let Zambia look to the only properly operating political party with 22 MPs in Parliament that are working as a Team to revive Zambias’ spirits in economic development.
People, before you get too worked up, re-read the header – LT has made no undertaking as to the probity of this letter. We should not be quick to make pronouncements without absolute facts . There is no basis here for judging Mr Banda or Mr Magande.
LT wrote “The following letter was sent to Lusakatimes by one of the readers.He claims it is the alleged letter that President Banda is said to have referred to as evidence that Mr.Magande was going to cancel all debt for Zambian Airways”
¾ of submissions here are disastrous imaginations by Diasporans we have long ceased to count on. These people fail to recognize that RB talks, walks and rules with grace. In over 20 years, no president has created end user products e.g. the recently opened cell phone assembly plant, no one has ever reduced the price of fuels and no president has spoken forcibly against closure of mines. No president has ruled at a time of a great global recession. What people do not understand is that the president has the right and duty to play politics. These people have not understood this difference. That besides the politics of ZA, the post and the necessary party power base struggle, RB is also doing…
, RB is also doing real work as hinted above. For God’s sake people, RB runs a political party and he is also an executive president! He has the right to design survival measures for both.
My dear friend # 107 , by the way you are also in the diaspora . Anyhow when man/woman`s freedom of speech is curtailed , when the freedom to air an opposing view is suppressed , this signals danger , a very good catalyst for war . RB `s ascension to power so far has been peaceful but what we are seeing now the witch hunting crusade is not good for our country mark my words…
Folks,the bottom line is that ZA managed to go bankrupt,despite it being almost a monopoly.This is so hard to swallow…….where was the money that ZA was borrowing going?It’s becoming clear that Nchito and his friends have been involved in fraud………..huge sums of money were being borowed from public institutions but this still did not help better the position of ZA.Banda and his friends may have political reasons to pursue Nchito and M’membe but that does not remove the fact that Nchito has been defrauding government institutions.Nchito and his friends have to pay for their deeds……..no one should be above the law!!!!!
Rightly said no one is above the law , then allow the investigation wings of the govt do their jobs , and the Zambians will know the truth . NO cadre interference please this is where RB gets the blame for allowing the hooligans to talk on the subject they little understand .
look at supreme furnitures, anglo american company, luanshya mines, albidon and the list is long, how come these companies which have had a record of having had borrowed some money to keep them afloat even before the global crisis went under, save alone albidon which as at now has just said they are suspending operations. what of meridian biao bank, mind you, that bank was mainly owned by zambians in the lines of sadanis and chiluba knows more about the demise of this once powerful bank. have u endeavored to ask why the ceo’s of such companies have not been prodded
If this letter is genuine at face value it seems very innocent and written with good intent. No one in there right mind can claim there is corruption involved. On the other hand, knowing what we now purportedly know about ZA financial position and it’s insolvency was Magange being prudent in allowing more public funds to be put at risk than already were thru all the loans ZA had. As finance minister he must have been privy to all the loans ZA owed public and private institutions. He would be expected to act prudently to safe guard the positions of these organs as at the time of writing the letter any financial analyist can tell you that ZA was beyong salvaging.
It is on this score that Magande may be found calpable as a Financial professional in his standing he should have known better than to vouch for ZA as he did. It will be difficult to prove any corruption going by this letter on Magande’s part. But he may be definitly be found liable on account of professional negligence
Though I may not agree with the approach he took in assisting the airline, I do not find anything incriminating about it. If i were in his position I would support the firm but ask for a change of management and the board members, so that the nation does not lose out. Zambia has gained little from the closure of ZA and lost tourists and revenue to other countries.
if i may ask, what happened in the past when companies made profit and suddenly went under? look at supreme furnitures, anglo american company, luanshya mines, albidon and the list is long, how come these companies which have had a record of having had borrowed some money to keep them afloat even before the global crisis went under, save alone albidon which as at now has just said they are suspending operations. what of meridian biao bank, mind you, that bank was mainly owned by zambians in the lines of sadanis and chiluba knows more about the demise of this once powerful bank. have u endeavored to ask why the ceo’s of such companies have not been prodded.
if i may ask, what happened in the past when companies made profit and suddenly went under? look at supreme furnitures, anglo american company, luanshya mines, albidon and the list is long, how come these companies which have had a record of having had borrowed some money to keep them afloat even before the global crisis went under, save alone albidon which as at now has just said they are suspending operations. what of meridian biao bank, mind you, that bank was mainly owned by zambians in the lines of sadanis and chiluba knows more about the demise of this once powerful bank. have u endeavored to ask why the ceo’s of such companies have not been prodded. lets allow the investigative wings
to carry out their work without prejudice. also we need to know that any individual can get a loan from the bank and the minister of finance does not necessarily need to know how the money was used. but when it comes to give reports, let the lenders have a say coz agreements were entered into by DBZ and ZA not ministry of finance or the minister in charge at that particular time
deleted
This country of ours never ceases to amuse me.
I have only read part of the letter as most of it has failed to show. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with what Magande did. He only made suggestions of possible ways to help ZA, he did not suggest cancellation of the debt to NAC. Deferement is not cancellation. Is it on these basis that the cadres-SHREK included in this category- are asking for his sacking? Unbelievable. Shows you where this political party is taking you-NOWHERE!
Zambian Airways is a private company and as such, must run within its own means. If it needs capital injection, it should find this from the several financial institutions and not directly from tax payers. Tax payer’s money is supposed to be used to reduce poverty and not prop up failing private businesses. Chiluba was convicted in the UK because of playing with tax payer’s money! When a minister starts giving favours to private companies, one needs to ask why the interest? Furthermore, it is very suspicious to defer a debt when the debtor has evaded tax for 3 years! It has now come to light that Zambian Airways has been incapable of supporting its own business operations and the…
directors were taking loans in the name of the business, which have not been substantiated. How can one minister push another to defer a debt owed by a clandestine tax defrauding private company? It appears Magande was supporting Zambian Airways for personal reasons! This is abuse of power and corruption at the highest level. Furthermore, Zambian Airways was given loans without presenting accurate & profitable business plans. These loans were directed by Magande who was the Post’s (ZA 30% shareholder) primary candidate for MMD. There is too much sexual activity between Magande, Zambian Airways and the Post Newspaper, for anyone to see that this trio tried to swindle the state out of…
There r so many private companies that defer payments of tax to ZRA, NAPSA & pension contributions in zambia today. GRZ is the main culprit. GRZ also owes huge amounts of money to Zesco, Zamtel, Water utility companies & a lot more to the food suppliers. Should we liquidate the Govt? Fact is ZA did not borrow any money from GRZ but asked for time to pay their obligations. GRZ investigative wings r doing their work, so lets not speculate until we have all the details. I can assure you, RB & his minions will b made to eat humble pie over this matter
billions of kwacha!
country men and women, i have consistently said that we must not loose sight of the cause of the problem, all this about Dora, Magande, Mmembe, RB, Mutembo etc, (their positions) in regard to the problem currently will not help. we must look at the problem at hand and what caused it. the problem is that ZA was running at a lose for a long time. the current position is that the post is demonising everybody they percieve to have led to the demise of the airline, likewise the MMD is also doing the same. the problem is that ZA as a company is not telling us what went wrong, we need to tackle the causes not the effects of the problem.
“As minister of Finance and National Planning, your duties did not include activities that promote tax evasion, fraud and theft. As a matter of fact, there is a probe by investigative wings regarding Zambian Airways and the alleged role you played,” he said.
Mr Chewe said it remained a fact that through his actions, he had caused the loss of huge amounts of money that were due to the Government which was now engaged in an expensive process to recover the money.
He said Mr Magande was aware that Zambian Airways owed public bodies, which were under his ministry, a total of US$12 million through NAC, Zambia Revenue Authority and the Development Bank of Zambia.
as of june 08, ZA was already owing NAPSA member contributions, it was already owing NAC in ground handling fees, it was already owing ZRA in unremitted fees, yet it was still able to get more loands from other government depts eg DBZ, NAPSA. magande as mininster definately knew about all this. how then can he even offer a deferement, it would have been another issue had ZA not been in so much debt at that time, there was also no firm commitment or plan of repayment of the defered amount apart from if the global crunch was resolved. this is exactly why BOZ in taking DBZ to task, that is also why he should explain his reasons, they just may be good after all.
Is this letter genuine and not an MMD ploy to get at Magande. With to days Technology a simple letter like that can be “manufatured” Also had Magande not quarreled with RB would such dirt been brought to surface? I think people should not just get excited
I dont see anything wrong with the letter Magande to wrote to Siliya, infact its a proffessional advice from a man who understands world ecomonics.
i mentioned here last week that Dora can be forgiven fo being incompetent as she did not understand fully the lines of communication between her and her surbodinates as well as other government wings, i was shouted down by another blogger, but that is axactly what is coming out of the trinbunal. a letter was published in the post from Dora, what we should have been told was that she was out of order, the post has not explained this to the masses. likewise they must also explain the current status with Magande and state their position bearing in mind that they are an interested party.
I don’t really like RB but it clearly doesn’t make sense why somebody should be fired over such a letter. The definitely must be something more to this issues than just this letter surely. I don’t think RB (or anybody for that matter) could be that ignorant…..
Read between the lines. Asking for deferement and giving advice on an issue to a fellow minister should not be contaiined in the same letter. Maybe if deferment was sort and rejected, then the finance minister could have given his advice and reasons as to why ZA should be assisted by govt. The basis of the letter are not justifiable in the sense that ZA at the ime had not come out publicly with their troubles to warrant any sympathisers to come forth and assist. To me it seems as a ploy to seek empathy before the favour is given.Why advice and seek a favour at the asame time???
But if it was signed by RB how excited would you be right now? There are no sacred cows. Magande was either ignorant of Zambian Airways financial situation or he was desperate to get into plot one that he sold his sould to the Post/Mmembe/Nchito triangle for publicity as Levy’s chosen successor…
Bottom line is why bring this thing out now after they have differed/? Its like a woman divorced revealing that her husband does this and that after many years of marriage see?
Why involve cadres? This if its true is a crimnal case which must be dealt with by the comptent wings not Chewe and his friends. If corruption is cause to expel one from MMD, then Katele and others must be expelled also.
Someone enlighten me, I am a little behind. I have read the letter and kind of get the picture. Are you saying Magande is no longer Finance Minister. Hey, no bashful comments, just a little history and I will catch up. I don’t get much news here in Oz
Iwe…where are you. Listen to me. RB removed Magande immediately after rigging elections. Magande for the past 7 or so months has been roaming parliament at the back seat. I will tell you more next time.
Iwe…. Which elections did RB rig? Stop misleading people. We will vote for MMD again in 2011
RB did not rig any elections.
If you think he did, provide proof of this.
The letter and its contents therein looks good and well intended assuming it is authentic. However I have some queries.
What really caused the down fall of ZA? How do ZA books of accounts look like? Was the air line operating on professional lines or not? When should the gvt come in to assist a company foreing owned or indegenous owned? Should a gvt support mediocrity (not saying ZA was) coz its citizens are involved or support high perfoming citizens? So what we need is to have answeres to some of thse queries by way of the accountants producing an audit report then we shall say yes it was right or wrong to assist ZA.
blogers,Lets look at 2011 candidates.1.RB 2.Sata .3HH 4.Magende 5.Chirwa.What do you think?
Can these people deliver?I think there should be something like a debate to see and hear there potential.Help
Chirwa must be counted out of this search. The man is not serious. Whom does he think should be working for him?? He has to go back to Zambia and start campaigning like what HH and Sata do. Do you mean he will go back to Zambia when HH , Sata or RB give presidency to him? No man, let us show seriousness. Thats why LPM told him to start as a ward chairman. Mr Chirwa if you are listening please go back to Zambia and make yourslf known to Zambians. Thats what you can do if you want to be a president of Zambia. Remote control cant work.
Ba LT, if your idea for publishing this letter was to humiliate Magande, Im afraid u have miserably failed. Instead u have embarrassed your sponsor-GRZ! There is nothing wrong in what Magande suggested to Dora in this letter. Mind you, he merely suggested. And SHREK was almost dancing to his cadres when he shouted that he is ‘President & I have all the documents’? If this is ‘the’ document then he should go back to his farm to sleep some more, he is out of touch with reality.
Magande was requesting Dora to explore this request to keep ZA afloat. He did not direct DORA. This was an advice and an economical suggestion. No abuse and corruption here.
ALL the rubish we read in the press cannot stand in a courts of law. In the court of public opinion, and in this case, un informed public opinion, Magande has been judged as being corrupt.The truth is that RB has no vision and there is nothing he can claim to have achieved since his election. They have failed and what they are doing is to fight potential challengers within the party for 2011 elections. Just watch them.
This letter has convinced me that Mangande can be good for Zambia as president. Keep your head down Mangande, and plot 1 is yours. You have got my vote!!!!!
Is this letter allegedly from Magande the smoking gun? The smoking gun I was expecting was a letter where Magande had promised to bailout Zambian Airways in return for a favourable coverage from the Post on his presidential ambitions. Bailout of private companies in the capitalist world that Zambia has embraced is quite normal. On 10th November 2008 in a record bailout of a private company, the American government provided a new $150 billion financial-rescue package to troubled insurance giant AIG (American International Group or Arsenal is Good as Arsenal fans call it) including $40 billion for partial ownership. There are other bailouts of private companies by American and European…
My message was truncated. Here is the rest of it. ….I am not here to discuss the morality of these bailouts but effectively it amounts to the poor tax payers maintaining the lifestyle of the fat cats. One company proceeded to buy an executive jet after being bailed out. Our Magande was only asking for a deferment of payment and not a bailout. The Saint should know that governments run countries through laws and policies. The letter has articulated government policy on privatization unless shrek thinks that he is running a UNIP government in which the spirit of private initiative was killed..
I see no case in this letter written to Dora, RB is dull and need serious attention in this letter.Magande was infact right to give his opinion about the Q3 **==
Ba Magande made reference to the conversation they had with Dora and the documentations that were sent to him…..now why not publishing those documents?
this letter has been produced by membe and his criminal cohorts. It will not save them. LT bloggers are full of ignorance and have no power to change the situation for magande/membe. It will be interesting to hear magande’s explanation on why he was suggesting deferement of payment of tax for one airline but did not do the same for other equally deserving zambian companies. Is ZA the only company or airline owned by Zambians? come on people do not be so shallow in your thinking.
In Zambia we have a big problem. We fail to separate personal differences from issues that shud see us develop. When someone is in power every minion and carder will speak good, but let the person move out of lime light, it is another issue. All this witch hunting in the MMD for example, where divergent views are suppressed is not healthy. Magande was not acting in his personal capacity. Even what is in the letter only states a concern for a national property.. Magande had a heart for Zambians in ZA. But as usual, everyone can now condemn Magande as long as it suits them..ABASH BUSH POLITICS….YES TO POLITICS OF DEVELOPMENT…AND CHANGE….YES WE CAN
First Magande is and was the best economic manager this country will ever have, #1 you cannot compare Zambian airways to some company on some corner on the copperbelt which was employing 5 people with Zambian airways, just there your analysis is heavily flowed. Like Fundanga once said, sometimes political reasoning precedes economic reasoning and the price we pay for this order is or precedence.
What Magande is espousing is exactly what Obama and his team are doing, and our case would have been cited as a good example. You think the American Government is not aware how much the chief executives of AIG were getting, but again I forget we are so petty and always look at the small picture of Mmembe driving a hammer and not my cousin, sister, brother, uncle who has lost employment as a result of this lack of foresight. Even just injecting money and take over the running of the company would have been more honourable.
The AIG and Zambian airways cases are very different.However the Enron and Zambian airways cases are very much the same.That is why Magande seems to have found himself wanting.
The Zambian airways directors continued to obtain debt financing even when the audited accounts revealed the poor financial position of the airline.Local Finance and banking regulations don’t condone that.However Magande still went on to try and help out Zambian Airways with the full knowledge of the airlines heavy debts.That should raise questions about his role in this issue.
Ugly Rupiah knows nothing about national issues.That sugar dad should just go back to the village.We miss Magande,he is one of the best brains Zambia has ever produced.Cant see any corruption in that letter.
Beloved fellow Zambians and Compatriots. Why are we becoming so naive and shallow minded on the alleged content of Magande’s letter to transport minister Dora Siliya? What else would we expect a normal minister of finance to in the given circumstances (global economic recession)? US president Barack Obama has had to bail out the 1) Banking sectors, 2) Motor vehicle companies like Ford and others, a sign of a government concerned about the growth of its local industry, 3) Billions of dollars have further been spent to bail AIG! what is this political madness advanced against Magande? the man tried to ensure local companies are protected. You are an EMBARRASSMENT! WAKE UP!
Magande will be the next president!
Better late than never!!!!
The man is Innocent with a capital I. I sniff good brains and forsight. May the man’s innocence prevail against any low lives..Amen!
this will remain a topic until 2011
Iliche!
Shame on RB Toadface,,……
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW IF THE DIRECTORS AT ZAMBIAN AIRWAYS PERSONALLY GUARANTEED THE LOANS.IF NOT THE COMPANY IS LIABLE AND THE DIRECTORS ONLY TO THE EXTENT OF THEIR SHARES.UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING SINISTER HERE,ITS NOT A BAD IDEA TO BAIL OUT A LOCAL COMPANY:EVEN THE VERY DEVELOPED WORLD DOES IT.THE QUESTION IS:DID ZAMBIAN AIRWAYS COME INTO CONFLICT WITH THE LAW OR ANY ISSUES OF CORPORATE GOVERNANCE?IF THEY DID LEVY’S LEGACY APPLIES-THE RULE OF LAW
in the first world it is illegal to trade while in insolvent. bail out was ok but there there was need to verify the financial status of the company at the time. the airline was not making any profits and so there was no need to run it. there is need to investigate the affairs of the company at the time it operated and also what was magande relation with the airline, did he benefit personally, or did he have shares in it……….etc.
the directors should pay the debt for they knew well that the company was in a loss but continued to operate it……………..
Palibe Vuto pali Ba Ng’andu
rb is a jackass
Summary? Too long.
The man speaks the truth and thant is seldomly seen in Africa
Magande for 2011!!!
So what is the problem here. i don’t know how Bandas position is on this DEFERMENT is the word that Magande is speaking and emphasing in matigating the ills that Zambia Airways is going thru’ and as such required the solutions that he Magande poited out. Further to the suggestion he pointed out, it is some how the reposibility of govt to help illing institutions.
Banda as a typical Kaponya obviously has issues understanding simple economics and what is of interest to the pipo. Viva magande mukwesu
banda is stealing
Banda and his goons should be tarred and feathered for what they are doing to poor people…
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