Fifa says it cannot confirm whether Zambia great Godfrey “Ucar” Chitalu scored 107 goals in 1972.
Responding to a press query from the BBC, Fifa stated that it does not recognise Chitalu’s record.
“Fifa only tracks statistics for Fifa competitions. Therefore we are afraid we cannot confirm the goal scoring figure mentioned neither have we found track of an achievement recognition for Godfrey Chitalu,” said a statement read on BBC’s Sports Today Programme on Tuesday.
But retired veteran soccer commentator Dennis Liwewe says it is not Zambia’s fault that Fifa does not recognise Chitalu’s goal scoring record.
“Surely if they lost the record we are not responsible. If they don’t have the record it’s not our fault. Chitalu was one of the greatest players the world has ever produced,” Liwewe told BBC.
The Chitalu debate was ignited after Barcelona’s Lionel Messi scored his 86th goal of the year 2012 on Sunday breaking Germany’s Gerd Muller’s 85th goal record set in 1972.
Chitalu is black from southern africa. Only Kalusha is recorgnised. Fifa cannot deny that they dont know Godfrey Chitalu, Alex Chola or our great Zoom Ndhlovu. Bufi Just because he never played professional football. Football is football nothing like Fifa games.
Some animals are more equal than others.
fipuba sana,,,,they are just afraid that it will shadow all the so called record,,,ba FIFA finangwa
Messi has been scoring in the Spanish league, Spain is a member of FIFA and that is why they recognize his exploits…Does it mean that Zambia was not a member of FIFA in 1972? Nei, Zambia joined FIFA in 1964…i don’t see the logic here…
Who said “Some animals are more equal than others”, above? I can’t think better than that. I just cut Messi’s jersey to tartars, its not his fault, but I don’t want to watch any of their FIFA. Am not racist, but they are, and I will leave them alone!!
Maybe Godfrey Chitalu was playing soccer illegally.
it does not change the fact that he scored 107 even if the bunch of lizards in semi polished suits at FIFA agree or not. the man is a legend and he will be remembered. we don’t need FIFA’s approval. In fact once these life members at FIFA leave, records will be corrected. By then these greedy men will be long gone living somewhere nobody will want to hear from them. They won’t be at FIFA forever.
It is up to us Zambians to make sure he is recognized. So Mr Liwewe should not say it’s not Zambia’s fault. Instead he and FAZ and the Zambian government as well as other concerned entities should embark on correcting this mistake if indeed it’s a mistake.Produce the records. Don’t we have archival records?
When I watched Messi’s goals yesterday and him being pitted as the first ever player to score 86 goals I disputed it outrightly since my memory took me to our own great goal poacher Godfrey Chitulu who passed away in the Gabon air disasiter (therefore not in the distant past!) Nevertheless, as some pandits have already commented above I concluded that the African player of the 70’s may unlikely be recognised by some people outside Africa! Then I thought of ZNBC who may have audiovisual records to that effect! Or do they really don’t have? Soccer in Zambia in the 70s was very explosive but I am sure beside the audio commentaries of the legendary Dennis Liwewe only TV footages from our on Zambia Broadcating Services (now ZNBC) can help settle the scores with FIFA.
This is simple, back then there were only 14 teams in the league, basically after 26 games the league finished, so if ucar scored 107 goals that means that he scored on average 5 or so per game, each weekend.2 things springs to mind either Ucar was so good as a striker to score as such, or the defenders were suspect, i think its more likely both
Weak leagues in Europe Scotland, Romania, Czech etc have an index which calculated parity with major leagues Spain, England Germany Italy etc. basically if you 60 times index this is the same as 30 games on equivalent , happened to Henrik Larson for the people that follow football. So Ucar’s goals are probably worth 30 Europe goals at most. Messi is playing in arguably best lg i the world.
So i agree with FIFA.
Ubufi iwe!!!! It’s 107 goals in a year i.e. all football competitions including international, club, domestic cups, continental cups etc. Messi’s goals span the latter part of last season’s league right through to the current. So this index you are talking about fake doctor is not valid.
Rubbish FIFA. Do you still think nothing good can come from Nazareth?
This debate was first initiated by the brilliant minds of the Facebook Group “Talk Football Zambia”. Don’t let anybody cheat you. Ucar is a legend and he needs to be recognised by world football fraternity.Â
Not true it was initiated right here on Lusaka Times. Go and read the blogs below the Mayuka benched story
Ba Dr Zulu I follow ur grammar. However I initiated this debate last week on LTimes  because I watched Ucar. Iam a Mighty supporter and I used to hate Mighty vs Warriors games because Ucar could not be marked. The goal tally was for League matches, four cup competitions(Chibuku, Castle, Challenge Champions) and national team assignments. These are FIFA matches since FAZ is an affiliate of FIFA. The next year onwards Ucar’s shirt no was changed to 107 at Kabwe Warriors. There’s no need to speculate 1972 is not in the dark ages. We can dig up newspaper reports and even NFL reff reportts Mwebantu.
Correction I wrote: Ba Dr Zulu I can’t follow ur grammar…
The guys above using the european co-efficient to agree with FIFA above is a quack. Football bck then was even more difficult coz even tackles from behind were allowed and this went on until the 90s when FIFA illegalised it. meaning strikers and forwards during UCAR, pele and mueller ‘s days were less protected than the Messis and ronaldos of nowadays. so that even provides a stronger case for UCAR. Guys learn to be proud and patriotic of our achievements. For your your own knowledge my father who was priveledged t watch the guy says u cud count a goal in advance whenever UCAR wnamed on  team sheet including the national team.
This new claim from Zambia should have been sustained all along, even as Messi was plodding towards that mark, to make sense. There was a record by the Germany guy, and all those crying Ucar now were silent. That is how we Zambians lose!
I cannot support Chitalu because he was Bemba. Bembas are tricky persons and clever for nothing. Batubuulu…..!!! Let us forget about all this nonsense. Full stop!!! What benefits is it going to add to our nation, Zambia. Majority of our Zambia People will still continue wolloping in poverty and cannot afford to send their children to average schools. When i become president, i shall send them in exile to DRC where they immigrated from i.e. Mwata Yamvwa. Ba Kolwestans imwee!!!
Wabe tole
@Dr. Zulu
The record that Gerd Muller set that Messi is purported to have broken is not 85 goals in the premier league alone for the calendar year, but 85 goals in ALL competitions including national team matches. Check your analysis iwe!
I am sorry this doesn’t concern me, but to doubt someone who has a PhD like Doctor Zulu is quiet frankly embarrassing . From what he is saying Zambians are trying to compare Ucar to messi? I don’t know much about football but Messi is all over the Scottish sun everyday, whilst i have never heard of chitalu and rightly so.Â
desperate Zambians. Dr Zulu may must be right
Thanks
Racism… i conquer with Dennis, its not our fault they lost the records, let them go to FAZ and collect what they lost.
Mushota #18, whether someone anyeenga 100 women in three months in Spain or Europe, the record break is the same as one who has done the same in Lusaka’s Chibolya township. The fact is that alinyeenga abanakashi. I don’t know whether women in Europe are more women than those in Africa? Or it is only the nyeenga in Europe which is only worth to be talked about. Afterall, most women in Overseas ba menshi sana..!!! One cannot enven enjoy it properly compared to women of Zambezi of Luangwa-Chipata.
Iwe muntu uviziba!
But walipena iwe! Lol! Anyway, you have made the point.
Who were the cocacola company and those who made dry cells? Ucar’s picture was everywhere in bottle tops, on battery labels etc. Now mwe bantu how come somebody says he does not do what???? Because even my boys who were born in the 2000s know that there was Ucar Chitalu at one time in life and history of Zambia.
He scored 17 goals not 107.
@20 Dady, I hear you loud and clear. Perhaps people need such an analysis to understand what is being debated.
Wow! This is wonderful. I watched the debate on Indian Television!
Who is got that book Soccer in Zambia by Dennis Liwewe or Zambia Soccer Scene by Ridge Liwena.I remember as a young boy with friends in Kitwe used to get newspaper and soccer magazine photos of the footballers in the middle 70 and early 80 that we used to stick in then Zambian Telephone directory book.I recall when Kabwe warriors hammered a team from Chipata in a cup game 26-0 Godfrey Goal King Ucar Chitalu scored about 16 goals in that game I stand to be corrected.This also reminds when one of Friends got his brothers’s ABBOT Physics text book at that to paste or stick some footballers’s photos that we used cut from old newspaper.We ply around Riverside,Parklands,Nkana East and West areas in Kitwe just to look or search for those photos of footballer.It was a good hobby at that time.
It is like comparing the world heavyweights in boxing of today to those of the Muhamad Alis, Kenny Newtons,George formans . Todays can’t be compared to those irons. lione Messi can’t be like Ucar. We watched him and memories are stil vivid.
The thing is even racism and the feeling of being more superior and better has been at play and brainwashed Africans have accepted it that way. Give the fallen hero what he deserves u racists!
In my interaction with Africans from different countries on the continent many of them still regard anything “White ” as acceptable. Today they hardly watch their local games .Y can’t u support yos by doing all that it takes 2 b at the top? UCAR!!
Abena i remember the score of 26-0,,,but cnt remember the team,,but i think it was not during record breaking season,,,
Had it not been 4 this,1 of the devils tools (racism) 4 human distruction, Ucar den would have gone 2 Europe and in terms of soccer conquer dem.De man had stamina ,skill and intelligence .Yo Messi could even be far behind. FIFA stop yo racism!
@Digger town ,u have made dose memories fresh. l was at Gabbiters-Nchanga stadium by then. lndeed Ucar was a big threat wen worriors came. We too stuck dose pictures in our ex/books. l am now refreshing my mind by reading bo R. Liwena’s book.Ucar!
Dr. Zulu #9 you are offside! 1972 is not like a century ago! In fact, to tell you the truth, the standards of soccer in 1972 compared to now (1972) in my view can go at par if not better! Only if you compare 1972 to the 1980 or early 90s (up to 1996 RSA Afcon) can you say with certainity that the latter years surpassed 1972. I lived near Scrivener Stadium when Warriors, Buffaloes, Rokana United, Roan Utd, Rangers, Muf. Wanderers were all a force. In fact, if Europe had an open policy then Zambia could have had over 50 pros then! Remember 2 years later (1974) Zambia reached the Africa cup final. Ucar was great and so were our defenders, young man!
Also remember that in the 1970s and early 1980s Zambia had 3 teams (Zambia A, B, and C). It was very difficult “to ukulya akafulo” of your friend (displace a seasoned player). Often, you could name the line up and the substitutes at the time with easy. Listen to the you tube commentaries of Liwewe on Zambia/Uganda match in 1978 when Ucar scored 2 goals in the 4-2 thriller at Dag stadium. The records are there. As a Nkana fun from childhood Bernard Chanda was also a goal poacher and our hero at Nkana but Ucar it has been known for years of his 107 goals, so please don’t underrate his prowess.
Please check out this debate on Godfrey Ucar Chitalu as well: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1440990-godfrey-chitalu-did-zambian-striker-score-more-goals-than-lionel-messi
#25 my dad used to buy newspapers and I started reading headings in 1973. I had those collections too of my Nkana players Bernard Chanda, Moses Simwala, Brighton Sinyangwe etc with Muhammad Ali too. Records are there!
Lets debate proffesionaly, not emotionally. Car scored goals in amateur games. They are not recognised. Indeed, of messii would play in the Zambian league how many goaks would he have scored just this season? 1000 goals maybe.
Stool-pid #18 always never misses pansaka ichiwelewele, banoko babwelelelepofye.
fifa is a rotten organisation full of brainless racists who only think about european football. Those goals messi scores from offsides cannot be compared to the more difficult skillfull football ucar played.
A fool above belittles ucar achievement coz he has an inferiority complex. Fifa is a rotten house full of crooks and dictators.
#29 You ask for a professional debate but don’t display professional thinking. The debate is not about how many goals anyone WOULD have scored..and MAY BE(as you put it), but how many they scored. It can equally be argued that had Chitalu played in the Spanish League he COULD have scored even more goals since he would have benefitted from better facilities and coaching.
If Messi and Chitalu were serial killers, Chitalu would have been easily crowned to have killed 107 people. A goal is a goal in and outside Africa. Forget FIFA and the lot they have racist minds and corrupt minds.
The man deserves it, lets stop debating about about this and check through our records and achieves and provide concrete evidence to FAZ, so they can present to FIFA. Ba KK please you were president of Zambia then, and the national team was nicknamed after you, your memory may have waned a bit, but am pretty sure you can still be our number one witness and testify the our great Ucar scored more goals in a calender year in the world, in the most difficult football conditions without proper medical and training facilities on meager salaries and hard sometimes dusty pitches. I REPEAT THE MAN IS A LEGEND AND HE DESERVES THIS RECOGNITION – just like Mob-Marley, Mohammad Ali and all the great legends alive and past. Lets stand together and support this cause.Â
I used to hate Ucar everytime Kabwe warriors played against my favourite team, Mufulira Wanderers. He was a manace. But it used to be great to watch the two teams everytime they played because they used to bring Zambia to a stand still with people glued to their radios. The only time I loved Ucar was when he played for the national team. The truth is the man was a great footballer and he indeed scored 107 goals in 1972. This feat was reported in Zambian newspapers in that year. Can one explain to me what FIFA games are?
I wonder if the debate is still on. FIFA games exclude club games because these fall under national leagues. The World Cup, Confederations Cup, World Club Championships, World Under 20 17 etc fall under FIFA. In short FIFA dont keep a World Record for goals scored in leagues. They have records of Golden boot winners i.e. the highest scorers at the above mentioned FIFA tournaments
Playing football in africa is never easy.look at how the etoo’s and droba’s fail to shine when they come home.Messi is fed the ball by the best players from all over the world.pitches are smooth.coached by the best,marked by the timid,earning millions. Chitalu was fed by the average on rough pitches,marked by the rough and coached by himself.messi may only score penalties in our league of 1972.RIP Ucar, u had more dynamite than messi.
Kalusha can canvince FIFA if he wanted since he has a wife and friends there but since Kalu thinks Zambia’s bola ‘started and ended on him’ I am not belittling his record, but no one will beat Chitalu’s record ,power, speed and will. He scored from every angle. He was not just a poacher, he would at times dribble the entire defence then anleash a bullet. And win the ball outside centre circle and outrace weaker chaps and dribble the goalie. Our soccer legends read as follows Chitalu, Alex Chola,Abeleya and then Kalusha