As a concerned citizen I would like to respond to the article published here on Lusaka Times entitled, “Unlike Southern Province, History has shown that Eastern Province is not tribal”. I am compelled to do so not because I am Tonga or Ngoni ( My father is Ngoni and my mother is Tonga) but because the article was speculative and lacked scientific data to prove it. To make it easier I have highlighted some of Dora’s statements and followed with a response from myself:
Dora:
If you look at the voting patterns of Eastern province in the last 22 years, it’s clear that Easterners have never been shy to endorse candidates from other tribes at local, parliamentary and presidential elections. In 1991, the Presidential vote was given to Muchinga with Kaunda against Chiluba of Luapula.
My Response:
In 1991 presidential election, Eastern province gave Chiluba 24.69% (44,483 votes) while Kaunda received 70.48% (126,961 votes). So Dora please do not lie to the Zambian people. We all know that Kaunda is from Eastern Province and that’s why he received 70% of the votes. Remember that Eastern Province remained the only province with members of parliament under UNIP. Did they support UNIP because they strongly believed in these MPs/UNIP policies or because the UNIP leader was from Eastern Province?
On the other hand, the province you so despise gave Chiluba 82.69% (128,589 votes) over Kaunda with 14.34% (22,299 votes). Those are the numbers. By the way Dora, I hope when you say endorsing you are not saying voting because the two are different and as a journalist you should know that. Having endorsed Lungu yourself, how are you going to campaign in SP with such insults?
Dora:
Even former President RB did not have it easy in Eastern province, and failed to Marshall the extra 200 thousand votes to win the 2011 elections. Out of over 600 thousand registered voters only 334 thousand voted if am not mistaken.
My Response:
What you neglect to say here is that RB, an Easterner, got 72.60% (233,528 votes) over his closest rival Sata, a Bisa, who got 18.46% (59,391 votes). What you are telling us is that there is no pattern of voting for wako ni waka here unless it involves the people of Southern? In fact, if we go a step further you will see that the people of EP gave HH only 3.33% of the votes casted. On the other hand, the people of SP gave RB 19.15% of the votes. Dora, when you look at these numbers and if we go by your twisted reasoning which province would be considered tribal here? By the way, I am not even suggesting Easterners are tribal.
Dora:
The MMD wrangles have pushed Edgar Lungu of the PF ahead. The reason is not because of being an Easterner, but simply because the MMD and PF members, especially in Eastern Province are well known to each other
My Response:
What exactly is your point here madam? Are you saying that it’s only in Eastern Province that MMD and PF members are “known to each other?” Are you saying that you are not endorsing an MMD candidate, a party you belong to, because there are “wrangles”? If you were running away from “wrangles”, don’t you think it would have made more sense for you to endorse HH, Chipimo or Muliokela because there are no “wrangles” in these parties that we are aware of? There are more “wrangles” in PF leadership and membership than any other party that has existed in the history of Zambia. Therefore, what you say above Dora makes no sense at all.
Dora:
Our colleagues in Southern province in 99.9% instances have voted only for the UPND at all levels of elections in the last 22 years, with probably the exception of 1991 when it was a revolution.
My Response:
I think I have already shown you above that you are wrong. UPND started participating in elections only about 13 years ago. Go to the ECZ website and the numbers are there for you to see. There is no constituency in SP that ever gave a Southerner 99.9% of the votes. Bokosi can lie but Numbers don’t lie Dora.
Dora:
The PF as a Party and not President Sata, was given a 5 year mandate by the people of Zambia in 2011….. This would save Zambia a lot of unnecessary by-elections expenses and post-election expenditure in case Government changes.
My Response:
This is probably one of the most useless statements I have ever read from a politician. By your reasoning, we may not as well have an election because the PF was elected to serve for 5 years even when the constitution says otherwise. So, even when someone dies you are suggesting that we don’t have an election at all? Dora, you must honestly be a terrible lawmaker because you made these laws.
What post-election expenditure are you talking about in case of government change? Irrespective of who comes in power after January 20, HH, EL or NM there will be change of government because ministers will change, government heads will change, ambassadors will change and many other changes elsewhere.
Finally Dora, in your flawed argument you fell short to just say you are supporting Lungu because you happen to come from EP as well. It’s unfortunate and actually scary that you can publicly attack an ethnic group that has contributed significantly to the development of this country for thousands of years. My expectations of you as a leader were to be more unifying in your statements. You write as if you have no friends, co-workers, business associates, fellow lawmakers, in-laws, sister-in-laws, uncles or aunties who are Tongas. You write as if all the people who live in the geography area called Southern Province are all Tongas. You write as if there are no Tongas who live in Lusaka. Please exercise restraint in your language.
I actually think your future as a politician beyond 2016 does not look very good. Therefore you are desperate to seek political attention by picking fights with other ethnic groups. There are many fights that you better focus on fighting—one includes the Muliokela fight. Good luck.
This, dear Dora, is how I see it.
Wesley Ngwenya
“We all know that Kaunda is from Eastern Province,” Sorry buddy KK is from Malawi. Having said this, Dora is right and you are dead wrong.
There is no medicine, chemical, counsel or troll’s write up that can sanctify Bantustanism. Its in blood, character and gene.
The moment I read “Kaunda is from Eastern Province” I stopped reading because I don’t wan’t someone to waste my time
Brother man sister Ngwenya fimo fimo,With due respect I believe you are just defending your misleading press release duped “Zambians in the USA endorses HH”. I doubt the over 600k Zambians in North America are part of your party endorsement. Though its a respected democratic right, i think it was misleading and HH who now think he has every Zambian diaspora vote in NA need you to correct it. Anyways i salute you for trying every script. But kateka ni Lungu.
No offense here, but are you Ndebere from Zim Zim to harbor such an ommission of history/civics that Dr. Kaunda born at Lubwa Mission in Chinsali in the Chief Nkula has no village in EP? please share here his village and chief in EP.
We cannot ignore the valid points that the writer has articulated in this response to allegations by Dora Siliya. What you are missing is that he is not advocating for tribalism, unlike some people and political parties. I find it very sad that it is the leaders who are inciting tribalism when they should be staying away from any rhetoric which has tribalism undertones. People are going to vote based on tribe; herein lies the downfall of our nation.
Kaunda is not from Eastern Province. Tell us his district, village, and Chief.
Wesley has hit the points and well explained with figures. Dora should be ashamed of herself.
I used to support Dora even when they were fighting with Muhabi, until she endorsed EL. It appears she is now very desperate for survival
@Mo taim, so you love the president to such an extent that you can even use his portrait and pretend to others that hate him. What a hypocrity
“Bokosi can lie but Numbers don’t lie Dora…” Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!You cracked me Wesley. This is a very well argued article, with data to prove every point so that this tribal bltch can learn how to debate.
KK’s mother is from Eastern Province. The writer has answered Dora convincingly, with factual evidence. Excellent!
KK’s mother is from the Eastern Province and most of those guys are matrilineal including the Bemba people. In short Kaunda will count himself as being from Eastern Province quite comfortably. Dora is just wrong in her statements.
DORA IS RIGHT MR. WESLEY DONT THINK THAT WE DULL WE KNOW IN SOUTHERN PROVINCE OTHER PARTIES FIND IT DIFFICULT TO CAMPGAIN AND THE TONGA PEOPLE ALWAYS AND OPENLY SAY WE SHALL NOT CONTINUE VOTING FOR OUR OWN SON HH.
I PERSONALLY WENT TO CHOMA TO CAMPGAIN FOR ANOTHER OPPOSITION PARTY WANT WE FACED MADE ME THINK THAT HH IS A WRONG PERSON FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND.
@Chipili
Did you actually meet with HH?
If you did not, I don’t think you are engaging your faculties appropriately.
Interesting point on point debate, despite commentaries only narrowing on Kaunda and his origins! It’s but a small point that only needs correction. I too had it wrong on KK but logically to support your argument, the swing for his votes maybe arose from being married to an Easterner! His children at least Panji has made it home and runs a farm there ask the free borns and most will tell you KK hails from Eastern province.
This ZWD Ngwenya chap is only playing the tune his fellow tribalists want to hear otherwise the rest of us know better..Siliya is someone I detest but will say she spoke figuratively about the 99% of Tongas voting UPND and for a fact no other regional party would get as high a vote as UPND gets in Southern Province and that is a fact which this Ngwenya numbskull has deliberately chosen to omit. Just as 90 percent of the bloggers that are anti PF on this site are infact Tongas or members of tribes that form part of this hastily made tribal alliance to bring down the perceived Bemba dominance when in truth Zambia has never had a Bemba ruler!!!!KK is not Bemba as we all know, Chiluba was Aushi/ Luapula Lunda, Mwanawasa -Lenje-Lamba, Rupiya an Easterner, Sata was Bisa.
Hehehehehe… Wesley tell us more about that fight Dora vs Muliokela of The Poor People’s Party.
If Dora is flawed like you are claiming then you are super flawed my friend too many assumptions in your analysis.
Too many?? Point them out buddy..!
How flawed is he if he has produced figures? Hmmm ndeloleshafye ubupuba bumo
Do you even know the meaning of the word ‘Assumptions’ ba dull PF cadre imwe? Yaba!
And the scary thing is there’s nine id!ots just like you!
Good article.I hope that who le reads your response.The tribal card this time won’t work ba Dora.Obama won even when the race card was played.There is a new generation of voters the youth.They don’t know tribe.My daughter says she is voting HH.She is 20years old.Am from eastern province.
Easterners never demanded that they wanted any political party to headed by an easterner like those in UPND. Remember there are many tribes in Eastern Province. So it is true, tribalism has no place in Eastern province. Do not bring EP into your tribal loop. EP is composed of many tribe all untied for the development of the province. What Dora is saying is true. Just enjoy your tribalism. UPND has spoilt this country by openly being tribal. You cannot and will never run away from this fact. Your efforts to show that Easterners are tribal will not work. You have been doing the same to the Bembas and now the Easterners, one wonders what next. Can you tame your tribal tongues for once.
One argues against tribal card and indirectly uses it to their own good. Whatever Wesley says, people must be scared with Tongas; they are not accommodating to other people when in power other than fellow Tongas. Don’t forget what happened at Ministry of Education in Central Province when we had a Tonga PEO and Bursaries Committee when a Tong was Secretary. In both cases, promotions were a preserve of Tongas and bursaries were tongas first priority. You’ll mark my work if by sheer misfortune you’re duped into voting HH on 20th.
@ 4.1 Yebo Nkhosi
“Easterners never demanded that they wanted any political party to headed by an easterner..” Wish that was so! Yebo, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. The recent maneuvers by Muhabi Lungu and RB were designed to take MMD by force from a Northerner and give it to an Easterner. When Nevers Mumba won the case at the Supreme Court, all the Easterners suddenly jumped to joined PF instead, a party led by an Easterner. You think we don’t see?
What is that lone voice of a single disillusioned Tonga who said : “A Tonga must take over from Mazoka” compared to this well orchestrated move by prominent political leaders from Eastern Province? I am neither an Easterner nor a Southerner. I am just an independent observer. Eastern is playing it dirty right now.
Perhaps you should ask Wesley why he left the US… Wesley those who live in glass houses never throw stones. Enjoy your newly found happiness in Canada before you find yourself back home. Remember how you languished in Zambia when you left the US.
Diasporans let’s enjoy our new found happiness in our adoptive land without assuming that the people at home do not know what they want or who they want to lead them. BTW, Wesley you are Tonga through and through, that’s why the only Zambian language you can speak is Tonga.
My advice is that when you choose to write a well researched piece of work as you attempted to, try not to be emotional and personal. That attracts negative vibes and may cause people to start letting out staff about you.
Remember, those who live in glass…
Article lacks content. Please do more research and don’t assume.
@eAnalyst
If you are really an analyst as part of your pseudonym/pen-name suggests, you have failed to rebut the arguments raised by Ngwenya. It speaks volumes of the caliber of most contributors who refuse to see the gist of the article by Ngwenya. Dora like most PF folks appear to experience mental orgasm when they talk about Tonga tribalism. This is the same Dora who was censured for raising the middle finger (f*%k you) sign in parliament against PF and most short-sighted folks here thought that kind of stupidity from a lawmaker was cool.
To me Dora and all you her supporters here better talk other things rather than Tonga tribalism as you refuse to answer why Sata’s cabinet was by and large all Muchinga, Northern or Luapula! Next topic please!
OOOOhhhhhh!!!!!!I didn’t know that Kaunda is from Eastern Province until today. Pamudzi payani kodi???????
Someone already pointed that out. Anything else??
Response from Yabaa…. Very fuulish analysis
1. Kaunda is not from Eastern Province. His father was Malawian but KK was born in Chinsali
2. Tongas gave more votes to MMD (not Chiluba) than KK bcoz by then MMD had big guys from the south such as Nkumbula and the team.
3. Yes, your figures are trying to jsufy that even Easterners are tribalists. So you are also a tribalist which defeats the purpose of posting this useless letter.
4. Talking about Dora endosing Lungu. She clearly explained that she wanted continuity up to 2016. changing gvts within 3 years is expensive for any country.
5. Yes southern Province have always supported UPND since it was formed by Mazoka.
No need to bring in the Nkumbulas here. Mr. Ngwenya’s data is on the presidential level. How do you compare CEOs with general staff! Think deep before posting
Big ups to Yabaa sr. Wesley Ngwenya has lamentably failed in his quest to counter Dora. Wesley thinks Malawi is part of Eastern province of Zambia. It is a known fact that ever since UPND was formed, no non-Tonga person can win an election in Southern province. No matter how much people may try dispel it.
Poor analysis. Do not forget that there is also something called popularity. If one has sold himself or herself to the people, even die-hard tongas will vote for them. There is also the issue of ‘just get out’, where no matter what you do, the people have decided to get rid of you, even if it means voting for a frog. The there is tribalism as preached by HH, where regionalism is promoted and dull people follow blindly, like what is happening in tongaland. Period!
The good thing with democracy and its tenet of freedom of speech and expression is that everyone has the right to show the world how silly or uninformed they are!
Such as Dora! As Ngwenya has pointed out in his well articulated article, Dora was only interested in opening her mouth and being seen to say something even when it was never research/verified. This is dangerous for a young female politician that Dora is. In other words, Dora was merely confirming that she is supporting Lungu because he is her tribesman (true).
And by the way, Dora could be aligning herself to RB because the two dipped their fingers in the Zamtel (Cayman Islands Company) saga – remember the single sourcing issue and the $12 million they pocketed? Remember also the allegation that RB wants his cases dropped once Lungu wins? That is where Dora comes in!
Well presented article indeed. Its a shame that tribalisim is only noticed wen a mweemba votes 4 HH n wen a kabwe votes 4 sata or tembo 4 lungu its somthn else (obviously not out of reasonin), wako ni wako is engraved in r DNA n we’v all done it b4 bt it tks a sobr mind to give credit were its due……70% of me is votin HH for the potential i’v seen in him n 30% coz m tonga…..
Easterners never demanded that they wanted any political party to headed by an easterner like those in UPND. Remember there are many tribes in Eastern Province. So it is true, tribalism has no place in Eastern province. Do not bring EP into your tribal loop. EP is composed of many tribe all untied for the development of the province. What Dora is saying is true. Just enjoy your tribalism. UPND has spoilt this country by openly being tribal. You cannot and will never run away from this fact. Your efforts to show that Easterners are tribal will not work. You have been doing the same to the Bembas and now the Easterners, one wonders what next. Can you tame your tribal tongues for once.
THE ARTICLE DOESN’T CUT. VOTERS ARE LOOKING AT WHAT PF HAS DONE WITHIN 3 YEARS OF BEING IN OFFICE AS COMPARED TO OTHER GOVERNMENTS WITHIN THE SAME PERIOD OF TIME. ONE THING WRONG WITH ZAMBIAN ANALYSTS IS THEY DON’T CONSIDER WHICH SECTOR OF PEOPLE MOSTLY VOTE AND WHERE INFO WILL FILTER THROUGH TO. A COMMON MAN IS NOT INTERESTED IN FIGURES. HE IS INTERESTED IN TANGIBLE THINGS- ROADS, HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS, BRIDGES, ETC. BECAUSE THESE WILL MAKE DOING BUSINESS POSSIBLE FOR THE COMMON MAN IN ORDER TO IMPROVE THEIR LIFE. PF HAS REALLY VISIBLY PERFORMED FOR EVEN A COMMON MAN TO SEE. FOR PF ITS NOT ABOUT ACADEMIC WORDS AND FIGURES BUT BRIDGES, ETC.
GO EL SHOW THEM.
Please let’s leave tribalism out completely. If people are tribalistic telling them won’t change a thing. My position is firmly that no Zambian tribe is tribalistic but every one has his/her own preference from the food they eat to the clothes they wear and much more. The violence today in Mongu was not about East and West it’s about PF and UPND. It’s my firm submission that probably if you consider other countries and cultures Zambians could be among the most mixed in the whole world European countries included. So practically we can safely assume Zambia to be non-tribalistic if we use a global scale. lets keep improving on One Zambia One Nation (Of cource leaving out One Nation One Leader and that leader so and so ……..)
Which article are you commenting on? Your comments are not related to the article above.
@Zedian, an equally lost as to which article @Peter is commenting on! Typical of lazy people. Peter’s comment is what a lecturer would paint red and throw it back at the student
Mr author, how come you have not given any statistics of what percentage HH gets in Southern Province. And also your statement that “… just say you are supporting Lungu because you happen to come from EP as well.”, aren’t you being tribal as well which is something you are trying to refute? Again where do your parent come from?
@Critico
You clearly missed the point.
Go back and reread the article. Instead of being critico, please be a critical thinker.
The person responding to has clearly shown that he is more of a Tonga/UPND than any other party. Apart from Livingstone city constituency, which other constituency has a non Tonga/UPND member of parliament? In Eastern, there are MPs from 3 different political parties i.e FDD, MMD and PF. What does that show Tonga/Ngoni man or UPND sympathizer. Anyway each one of us including you and Ms Siliya has a democratic right to align to his/her candidate of choice.
Do you imply other parties field non-tongas in Southern P hence the losses. In other words the people who vie for MP positions on UPND tickets are all tongas in all provinces going by your reasoning. I thought its all about the power base not tribe!
Tribal is an inborn thing. You article lacks merit.
Very wrong sir tribe is taught not inborn. You were told by your parents or whoever your guardians were. Its even possible the parents you have are not genetically your parents meaning you are fighting for a wrong tribe.
@Chingambo
You just countered one of the blights of our society. People with wrong information seem to be talking the loudest.
Wesley Ngwenya you said Dora’s article was ‘speculative and lacked scientific data’
Your scientific data is and a quote ‘This is probably one of the most useless statements I have ever read from a politician’. End quote.
I must say for this master piece of scientific data you are the Albert Einstein of the Tonga tribe.
The last part of your article sir/madam is meaningless. Dora’s was a subjective statement and simple logic, I repeat simple logic, follows what Wesley has responded.
@10 well said, Zambians do not want development on paper, we want to see with our own eyes and we have seen what PF has done in 3 years and some of us are very happy. It is only hardcore haters who won’t appreciate what PF has done.
@Musankwa
I don’t get your point. Are you implying that you want to compare what PF has done with what UPND has done? Is that it?
You can’t compare what PF has done with any other party, except perhaps UNIP and MMD, but definitely not UPND. But then again, considerable challenge is coming not from UNIP or MMD but UPND. So, again, your point is?
This is a very good response to Bokosi. The rubbish that she said in that useless article can only be supported by some of her relatives from the East and some useless PF cadres. What Dora should remember is that if in her area women stand on anthills to insult other people, she should confine that behaviour to her home district. Insulting a people of another province is not acceptable. Where is her excitement coming from suddenly because when Sata was alive Dora was just a wet rug? Or is it because she thinks the Wako ni wako camp will be ruling Zambia again? Cool down fat mama.
Dora needs alangizi!
Politicians are like Diapers!
They need frequent changing!
The new generation of Zambians don’t talk tribe!
What is wrong with this old generation?
Bi_ _ _ _ _ ain’t loyal!!!! is all I can say.
Mr. Wesley Ngwenya, it is sad that you bring out your ignorance on the internet. Surely you would even go ahead and lie to the people about our founding father, KK. For your information, KK is from Chinsali, now Much in a province. His parents are from Malawi. Get that history sir.
Lastly your article lacks substance and clearly shows that you did no research. Redo it if you want to campaign well for HH.
@Dikky
He qualified that statement with something you apparently did not understand. Most of the tribes in Zambia are matrimonial.
KK’s mother is an Easterner. That makes him an Easterner, place of birth notwithstanding.
Then there is a legion of ignoramus arguing that Chinsali is what is on his NRC. So what? Most of the children born on the CB are they Lamba? You all cling to villages of your ancestors (mother or father) including Edgar himself. He was not born in Eastern province, but check what is written his NRC. I bet you the guy can’t even speak his mother tongue.
Its shameful for the so called wako ni wako team to openly and proudly declare that they are campaigning for EL on tribal grounds. If their candidate wins this election how does he expect the other 9 provinces to treat him or even them to be treated. Where has our ideology of ONE ZAMBIA, ONE NATION gone? I see the beginning of an era of hate in this peaceful country. We all know this is how it begins in all these war torn countries.
@ 20 Ngomani
It is sad that Dora Siliya and her Wako ni Wako team have decided to take THEIR TRIBALISM to another level. It is both shameful and frightening. The rest of the country is trying to walk away from this vice. The Easterners, on the other hand, are all the more determined to cling on to it. They have passionately embraced it as a campaign strategy for PF in Eastern Province. It also accounts for Nevers Mumba’s misfortunes in MMD. Meanwhile, Madam Dora Siliya is trying to convince us all that Easterners are “not tribal.” What kind of hypocrisy is this?
matrilineal
Dora has a point on southern province has been known ( tongas) to be tribal no doubt about it ,if a lozi was going to be flag bearer in UPND I can cast my vote on this party(Tonga party).
Aren’t you being tribal by your very statement?
PF’s policy of developing infrastructure is right but it had its flaws. Infrastructure development, roads and energy are critical for economic and social development. It is not fair that electricity and roads be available only to residents of cities. Villages in all provinces have equal right to these facilities. The flaws were unplanned development, too much corruption. I make a suggestion. Every tender above certain amount shall be cleared by a committee on which invariably a member of parliament from opposition party, recommended and approved by that party shall sit. No allowance shall be paid to any member of the committee. This way integrity of the system will be maintained.
Good idea! Let’s all add on to your suggestion
1. Every tender above certain amount shall be cleared by a committee on which invariably a member of parliament from opposition party, recommended and approved by that party shall sit. No allowance shall be paid to any member of the committee.
I add
2. All projects be published in the newspaper
3. After a tender has been awarded, the name of the bidder, the award amount, the budgeted amount, and the duration of the project must be published in a newspaper.
@Peter, don’t trivialize the knowledge of the ‘common man’ as you put it. These ‘common’ people were around during the past governments, from the 1st one to the disastrous 5th rule. The ‘common’ man can tell that this 5th rule has been beset by run away corruption, no planning, soaring debt, no respect for the rule of law, bad governance, panga weilding frenzied cadres who can fight in front of their leaders and even the police without fear of retribution. Ministers going out of the country to fund raise money from crooks and also meeting foreign heads of state without authority. The ‘common’ man has never seen this before. Yes, roads and other expensive infrastructure are being seen, but with the above and many more anomalies, the ‘common’ man will do what they know best pa…
We shud not describe it as an attack it is a fact. Unless our friends from the south change they will never rule this country. which Tonga has endorsed any other tribe apart from HH? Are you saying PF has done nothing in southern province? look at online ZWD run by Tongas and be wise. All we are saying is we are doing what they do and they shud not cry!
pa 20th and this irreversible. When the ‘common’ man says enough is enough, he means just that.
Why is Dora Siliya afraid of the Tongas? I am Tonga and proud to be Tonga. I don’t care who is at State House because I will survive without bribes from whoever is president.
One person has been reportedly killed after PF cadres attacked opposition leader Hakainde Hichilema’s team at Mongu airport.
HH explains what happened in this video
***
The UPND leader and his team were on their way to Mongu airport when they were advised to wait, as a chopper carrying acting president Guy Scott was about to land.
The UPND team waited many kilometres from the airport. But when they were told to proceed with their journey and about to board the chopper, PF cadres attacked them.
A PF cadre named as Imbwae Imasiku produced a plank and hit the UPND provincial trust Siisi Imasiku.
Its not yet clear if the victim has died.
Which Tonga has commented on those offenceful weapons HH suplied to kasama? Are Bembas animals to be butched with those pangas? Zambia police please do a good job untill the suplier of those pangas is known
my friend those pangas were used during wynter ‘s time in lusaka before they defected to UPND, so investigate and you will find your ba yama to be the supplier
@kanabesa
I am Tonga there were no Tongas involved at Kasama. Charity Katanga the Police Commissioner was at Livingstone when she had UPND supporters arrested for crimes they had not committed. Ask Gary Nkombo what happened at Livingstone, he was one of them arrested. Ask yourself why she has not arrested PF panga wielding cadres who disrupted a lawful UPND meeting at Shiwa N’gandu. Your Charity Katanga is a PF cadre who is masquarading as a police woman. She is not applying the law with impartiality.
MY RESPONSE
You are a UPND cadre.
So?
Lol
SO?????
WE HAVE ALL SPOKEN. SOME OF US ARE CLAIMING TO SPEAK FOR THE POOR, THE ZAMBIANS AND SO ON. BUT WAT. IT IS ONLY TWO WEEKS AWAY, AND THE ZAMBIANS WILL SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER THEY LOVE PF OR DISLIKE HH OR VICE VERSA. LETS NOT WASTE TIME NAME-CALLING.
Shame on Dora, using Bokosi to think instead of head.
Disgusting..
can someone mention the roads, hospitals, schools and tertiaries started and completed by PF. Don’t just talk the talk which is not seen. as an accountant I compare the assets and the liabilities. Those who are singing about roads, do not talk about the two huge euro bonds and other debts to the tune of more $5billion within three years.
@Analyst, I hope you are not trying to convince me that it is in my imagination that I drive on a tarred Road from Kitwe to Ndola, Kalulushi to Sabina and Kitwe to Kalulushi. I can assure you that some of these projects are very big and CANNOT be completed in 3 years. If you are a Kopala, go to Buchi, Riverside, Parklands, Nkana East and Kalulushi and I am sure you’ll see the tarred roads.
I think this guy is just embittered by Muliokela’s move.
My friend,your argument which is based on statistical data might be too advanced for cadres who just know how to open their mouths.In the first place madam Dora doesn’t seem to know what is she is talking about. Just recently she insulted PF and today because Edgar Lungu, an easterner is contesting she shamelessly switched camps to the party she recently insulted.
Ok tribalism aside, of all the two front runners EL & HH who is who is the best candidate? I mean who cant embrance you at international fora? Who has no proven crimanal record?
Even in public or private service, there offences which qualify for warning, and others for summary dismissal. Tribalism enshrined in the Tonga is a case of summary dismissal. In this case, HH is summarily dismissed and does not qualify for judgment without consideration of tribalism
Boss your article sounds good somehow, but it is like going to a war with a sharp knife when you know there are big machines there you will be slaughtered very quickly, everyone knows how Tongas behave i had a Tonga step father i promise you it was hell living under his roof and i was young by then and i am Bemba the man hated me with passion and when i grew up and i heard in society that Tongas are like that i forgave him,so boss you can’t justify a Tonga not now sorry try next time.
Tongas are the mostelfish people , tribalism comes with selfishnes. These even started poisoning bembas who were living among them in southern province , no province belongs one tribe zambia belongs to all zambians , most backward thinking minds are mostly found among the tongas . Tribalism is synonimus with backwardness
I am married to a tonga woman. My farther is the most generous person i have come across. I live in a bemba infested area of Zambia and one thing i have come to notice all People are selfish and its lack of Education that makes one backwards. so you sir are the Backwards one.
No amount of writing will mitigate the fact that Tongas are tribal and selfish, full stop.
Go to companies, Universities. its the same. Do you know that there are departments at UNZA with only one tribe and that tribe is Tonga?. Do you think its true/possible that only one tribe can understand a course/subject?.
Chocking with jealousy eh?
Zonda uzalema!
Education doesn’t remove tribalism from any one niether does it take away corruption. The most corrupt characters are those who are educated , you say say HH is educated but he holds the largest tag of tribalism . See what he has started saying in northen western province. His tribalism will kill him and hatred for some tribal will avenge
Yes education doesn’t remove tribalism but it enables one in knowing how to deal with in the most civil way and not in the barbaric way these people are dealing with it. The most corrupt are the greedy people ones. if you want to have a tribal tag then anwser this. So far who has been responsible for the Debt crisis we are in that will see our children paying for? Which tribe.
Of ALL the registered parties in Zambia, ONLY the UPND has the tribal qualification. HH is a product of “ONLY A TONGA CAN BE PRESIDENT OF UPND” This is undisputed because facts and victims of this tribalistic barrier are there.
So Mr Author, you will NEVER cover this tag until you go back to where you destroyed Mazoka’s national appeal. Rant as much as you may. Dora is right and EL goes to state house.
I think this tribalism is just too much we need to define what tribalism,it’s like people do not understand this,TRIBALISM IS VOTING FOR SOMEONE BECAUSE OF HIM/HER BELONGS TO YOUR TRIBE EVEN IF THAT PERSON DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR THE JOB,IF WE BRING IN A BIT OF SINCERITY WE WILL DISCOVER THAT TONGA HAVE NOT BEEN TRIBA,IF THEY HAVE BEEN THEN THEY STRONG POINTS TO HIDE FOR EXAMPLE WHEN
1.TONGAS FLOATED NKUMBULA BEMBAS FLOATED KAUNDA,
2.TONGAS FLOATED HH/MAZOKA OUR FRIENDS FLOATED SATA/LUNGU,IF WE ASK PIPO FROM eg USA OR UK TO VOTE ON OUR BEHALF SURELY KAUNDA,SATA,LUNGU CAN’T MAKE IT
DESPITE ALL THESE BEMBA STIIL WENT AHEAD AND VOTED FOR THEIER TRIBESMEN,EVEN IF YOU HAD OBAMA VS SATA BEMBAS WOULD STILL HAVE VOTED FOR SATA,ALWAYS LOW CALIBERE
This is the BEST article ever to have been authored on this tribal divisive subject. Mr. Ngwenya, thank you so much for a well focused articulate expose of the rubbish from Rubbish corrupt Siliya. Your only problem is that you addressed Siliya whose foolishness deserves no response from fine minds like yours. She confused all the figures which are so clearly available on ECZ website. In my village in Mapanza, I found two easterners happily living there when I was born one running a shop, another living village life. Unlike Dora, they are so integrated in local culture we never refer to them as ‘Easterners’.
When Mr. Ngwenya says Kaunda is from Eastern Province, he means in terms of his origins and marriage. As a Malawian Tonga like Edgar Lungu a Yao from Malawi treat them as there…
I have seen someone talking about North America supporting a particular candidate bufi who told you. I’m Zambian and would loved vote for a candidate that is humble, hard worker, heart to lift the standard of living of the poor people and a down to Earth person. Let us not talk about tribes that will not take us anywhere. Vote wisely and God bless Zambia.
I wanted to see a comment that would sufficiently critique Wesley Ngwenya’s review of Dora Siliya’s cockeyed, skewwhiff and barmy article but all PF cadres as usual are just rambling.
When you compare Dora and Wesley’s article you are able to tell that Wesley is academically grounded than Dora.
Wesley has demonstrated beyond doubt his quality or state of being reasonable based on social and political facts on the ground in Zambia.
Dora is academically dreamy and hollow no wonder she appealed more to her emotions as a result she was subjective and her arguments were characterized primarily by unbalanced scholastic and psychological mental state?
Dora should be informed that some discourses such as tribalism are sensitive and should be a dish for those with authority in…
anthropology or sociology and other related disciplines. Otherwise you end revealing your high levels of illiteracy. She is not even skilled and knowledgeable on how to conduct simple scientific literature on the voting tessellations in the political amphitheatre in Zambia.
Wesley, thank you for exhibiting the capacity to consciously make sense of the discourse by applying logic, establishing and verifying facts on political voting practices or behaviour based on existing evidence in Zambia.
I just wonder why people like Dora find the thrust to write things they do not understand and feed people with warped and distorted analyses that reveal nothing but their high levels of lack of in-depth academic knowledge and skills.
Article from a desperate Bantustan. KK is not from Kumawastan. Your problem is that you are so obsessed with tribe even suspicious of your own name. Chiluba wasn’t bemba but Lunda and Sata was Bisa. Kaunda though born in Chinsali is not Bemba. There are no Bembas from Livingstonia mission. In 1991 the major financiers for MMD were Bantustans and those who opposed were Kumawastans supporting KK.The Kumawastans even embraced Lumpa Church from Chinsali ie in Chama and Lundazi. Kumawastans aren’ttribal.
Brothers and sisters if you can read between the lines the author is not trying to label you the easterners as tribal.
The fact we should face ‘of course it being human nature’ is that human beings have a sense of belonging and nearly always inclined to their own.
Having stated the above country men and women, the solution is let us except this fact as a beginning to a solution. we respect each others ethnic origin and ways of life and stop pointing an accusing finger to the other when you have a log in you eyes.
In short we are all “tribalist” in our own capacities regardless ethnic origin hence respect, tolerate each other for prosperous mother zambia.
one zambia one nationl
STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AMONG ZAMBIANS
To ever think of VOTING FOR PF IS LIKE SUFFERING FROM A PHYCHOLOGICAL disorder called “Stockholm syndrome” where a person in bondage see hope in a captor than a liberator who comes on his rescue. Many PF supporters may be diagnosed with this disorder.
If they are a majority, then mother Zambia will never see development for generations to come.
we really need serious prayers to cast out the demon that has possessed Zambian people.
Wesley they are people with natural power ng’anga who can know that you are telling lies of your name and that KK is from EP.Please do not provoke pure easterners if you have failed Bembas, Do not provoke non voters from east. Your story started with lies hence a lot of readers were put off.
@TUTU
Stop complaining come out of streets where you specialize in stealing and go to school,it is not only at UNZA many other institution eg supreme court full of tongas,don’t hate us just learn how we have succeeded economically and educationally that is why we want free education so that you can catch up otherwise you die feeding on VINKUBALA
@ 4.1 Yebo Nkhosi
“Easterners never demanded that they wanted any political party to headed by an easterner..” How I wish that was the case! ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. The recent maneuvers by Muhabi Lungu and RB were designed to take MMD by force from a Northerner and give it to an Easterner. When Nevers Mumba won the case at the Supreme Court, all the Easterners suddenly jumped to joined PF instead, a party led by an Easterner. You think we don’t see?
What is that lone voice of a single disillusioned Tonga who said : “A Tonga must take over from Mazoka” compared to this well orchestrated move by prominent political leaders from Eastern Province? I am neither an Easterner nor a Southerner. I am just an independent observer. Eastern is playing it dirty right now.
“Only a Bemba or their cousin can lead Zambia”. I like this slogan. How is that? We are about to have a cousin in state house. Awe cikalila mwandini.
It was not an attack on tongas Dora spoke the truth.
@ Mei Matungu,
You surely know where you are coming from…
I am not an easterner, but these guys are not tribal, how many votes did sata get from southern as compared to eastern. Southern has always been UPND, from the time of of mazoka with the exception of Livingstone.
ONLY A TONGA CAN BE A PRESIDENT OF UPND
@ 53 GRAND
Grand, I think you know my position on this issue. I believe firmly and have stated it time and again in my previous postings on this blog – Southerners are tribal. I cannot exonerate them. But neither can I exonerate the Easterners. Tribalism is not the subject matter I would like us to dwell on. I have lived in Southern, Eastern, Northern and Luapula Provinces. I happen to know a bit of what I am talking about.
I can assure you that if MMD was led by an Easterner, we wouldn’t be seeing all these endorsements for Edgar Lungu from senior MMD members. Where is party loyalty? Eastern Province has been an MMD stronghold all this time. All of a sudden, it is now a PF stronghold. So far, who has endorsed Nevers Mumba from Eastern Province? Is it not wako ni wako?
These people are MAD don’t they know that L’stone is in Southern Province. Is that Coloured MP Tonga? These tribalist stinky. They accuse Tongas of being tribal when they are the worst tribalist. Have they even gone beyond grade 4 in the education? If they had they would have known that Southern comprise of many tribes such as Toka, Toka leya, We from the valley Ilas and the Tongas. Candidates from there provinces have gotten more votes than HH has gotten from theirs. For example the figures stated above by the writer for HH in Eastern Province and worse still in Northern were he only managed to get 2,900 plus against available total votes of 659,534. Nonsense.
if easterners were tribal as implied by wesley, fdd would not be led by nawakwi today after the demise of gen christon tembo but upnd openly declared that upnd presidency is for tongas only
You are just bitter. Leave Dora alone
@ Grand
Your basis of argument is shallow. If Sata got more votes in EP than SP it does not make the people of SP tribal. How about more people in SP voted for Sata compared to the people of LP and NP who voted for HH combined? Going by your reasoning then people of LP and NP are tribal. Truth is people will always vote their own. SP has independent MPs, MMD and PF counselors/MPs. Go to LP and NP and see how diverse the political spectrum is. Wesley has clearly shown by the ECZ numbers that Dora’s statement is dangerous and divisive. Give us statistics to show your argument.
Mama Siliya please dont waste your time with failures. You have spoken. The president is Honourable Lungu
Even chief Mukuni haws emphasized that Tongas must vote for a Tonga HH
I have read all your articles and conclude that you are all tribalists. “You don’t throw stones when you yourself live in a glass house”. EL and HH are both not bad candidates because none of them has ever campaigned on tribal lines but its actually these job seekers such as Bokosi and RB ( still facing corrupt cases) that are issuing tribal statements. These people can be said to be backward thinking.
Peace loving Zambians refrain from provocation especially that involves tribalism. Am PF + Tonga and no one will ever push me out of PF because its my choice. What i mean is that PF is not only for Bembas neigther is UPND for Tongas only. Check your facts correctly. One day is one day!
Last warning!!! Tribalism can lead to bloodshed and destruction of our hard earned democracy.
@ 60 Putruuue
I salute you. Good attitude.
@deja vu
I know chief mukuni personally and he is not the kind of person who can say such nonsense. He has the right to vote and campaign for any leader of his choice. He endorses HH because he now believes in him not because he is Tonga. Remember that in 2008 and 2011 chief mukuni supported RB and so did many other tonga chiefs. People in SP did not throw stones because of this.
Look Mr Ngwenya though you’re from Zim.what madam Dora Siliya said about tongas is very true!they’re very tribal!Sata in 2011 got 24 000 plus votes from Southern and these were votes from non tongas working or living in southern.a real tonga wouldnt have voted for Sata.even Edgar Lungu may get those votes from non tonga who’re throughout southern.SO NGWENYA DONT DEFEND AN ISSUE WHICH CANT BE DEFENDED BCOZ TRIBALISM IS IN THE BLOOD OF SO MANY TONGAS!PLEASE ZAMBIANS NEVER VOTE FOR TRIBAL PARTIES LIKE UPND!VIVA PF AND GO EL GO!
Dora has been proven wrong. That’s what happens when you think you are edit aged. Stats are their. Never open your mouth when you are not sure. You got a job at ZNBC because of your father(wall no wall) trabilism and nepotism.
Well written by an Ngoni-Tonga bull ….only error was as regards KK’s background but that’s a trivial issue in the bigger picture which is tribalism has no place in this age.
The author Wesley has hit the nail on its head, using real numbers or statistics. Tribalisation of votes should be a thing of the past. Same goes for employment or any other vice where tribalism shows its ugly head. Instead of employing someone who is qualified you employ someone simply because he is from your tribe. I simply consinder my self as a Zambian. Zambia should learn something from Kenya. In Kenya politicians are punished for using or saying anything tribal. Mr Yaluma would have been expelled from his party for telling voters not to vote for “Umwisa”. Let the qualification just be Zambian, with a plan to improve the lives of Zambians.
Kaunda is an adopted Easterner due to his wife! The Northerners did not want Kaunda after falling out with that Bemba hegemonist – Kapwepwe! If there is tribalism in Zambia – arguable – then the Easterners are front runners, no question about it!
kanshi bali tu bepa ukuti ba tata Kaunda ba ku chinsali? i was taught in school that his father was a missionary from malawi who came to zambia and KK was born in chinsali? i guess ba teacher bali tubepa???LOL
ha! zambia as a country surely has people living in two different worlds. those that are dull, their dullness is in extreme, & those that are inteligent are very intelligent. we know them by the way they discus issues.
At least you have acknowledged that she has a nice bokosi, but she is rite
By all accounts Edith Nawakwi is the best candidate in this election. If majority of Zambians were objective and less prejudiced by gender and tribe she could win this election. All this Siliya/Ngwenya discussion is very bad. Any Zambian who genuinely loves this country should not participate in this discussion by taking sides except to condemn it.
All this Siliya/Ngwenya discussion is very bad. No true Zambian who genuinely loves this country should participate in it except to condemn it. If Zambians were not so prejudiced by gender and tribe, Edith Nawakwi would win this election. She is by all accounts the best qualified candidate. I am not even sure of her tribe.
Its clear Hon Siliya did not articulate her point as a leader. Tribal voting in Zambia has been a concern from the time of independence.
Before the declaration of a one party state, Southern Province overwhelmingly voted in favour of ANC which was led by Nkumbula. In 1991 they voted in favour of MMD clearly and I would agree with Ms Siliya’s assessment.
Sometime in 1992/1993, Southern Province strongly backed National Party that was led by the late Baldwin Nkumbula in the interim before being taken over by the late Humphrey Mulemba. And finally, UPND was introduced around the period of 1998 and who have dominated Southern Province since. I cannot explain why we have had this trend, but that is how it has been.