President Edgar Lungu says Ministers will remain in their positions after the dissolution of parliament today.
President Lungu said the constitution is very clear when it states that current ministers have to hand over to the new Ministers that will be appointed after the next elections.
He has wondered how Ministers in the current cabinet will hand over responsibilities to the new cabinet if they get dissolved with Parliament.
President Lungu was speaking this afternoon at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport before departure to Uganda for the inauguration ceremony of President Yoweri Museveni.
President Lungu is however of the view that since this matter is going to the courts for interpretation, the courts should determine the interpretation of the law.
He said before that happens, the current composition of cabinet will remain as it is.
President Lungu stated that inspite of the law being clear on the matter at hand, he will be fine with whatever the courts will determine regarding the status of ministers.
“As for whether cabinet will remain or not, the law is very clear, read it for yourself. You are supposed to hand over the law says when Parliament is dissolved, cabinet remains because those people are supposed to hand over. How do they hand over when they are dissolved?”
“Anyway since the matter will become a court issue, the courts will determine but for now cabinet will remain. If they rule against us fine, if they rule in our favour fine but the writing is there, same as the Grade 12 thing, its democracy,” President Lungu said.
MATURITY:
“Anyway since the matter will become a court issue, the courts will determine but for now cabinet will remain. If they rule against us fine, if they rule in our favour fine but the writing is there, same as the Grade 12 thing, its democracy,” President Lungu said.
Its because a number of ministers were going to defect after desolation of parliament and by maintaining them will deter them from defecting
I will not blame him neither will i blame those saying otherwise. Nothing is straight forward in this constitution even the grade 12 certificate clause has some issues…. others are saying there is no problem if you have other professional qualifications even without a grade 12. The problem is that this constitution has a lot of loopholes were one clause will say this and the other will say the exact opposite. The root cause of all these problems is we entrusted grade 7 dropouts to doctor this important document. What do you expect from the so called honorable MP’s who are just primary school leavers. Comedy has just started and by the time the courts will make a ruling will be on 10th August
This constitution is now making kabimba an angel.
We black people don’t like to read and this is the evidence. I admit too i have never read the constitution.
From the time he took over, actually even before he was elected as PF presidential candidate, this man has always challenged the supreme lay of the land, the constitution. If the matter is in court, why then comment and say where you stand? Trying to intimidate the Judges? Sir, you signed this constitution with your “eyes closed” even after Gen Miyanda advised you to carefully consider all contentious clauses before signing.
Had the President listened and allowed time for proper debates in parliament concerning the draft constitution, we wouldn’t have all this drama on Grade 12 certificate issue, what happens when Parliament is dissolved, land laws, dual citizenship, public order act, 50% plus one (even this had to be interpreted by the constitutional court!!), running mates,…
contd….
.. running mates, ballot paper printing tenders, etc. PF rushed the whole thing to try and prove a point to the voters that they (PF) have delivered the constitution. This is a total mess.
Why did you guys sign the constitution if the draft had all these issues and many more to come?
correction.. supreme law of the land….
Lawyers are troublemakers. It was Mwanawasa who called the Constitution a mere “piece of paper” and he failed to enact the new Constitution. Now we are seeing Lungu who has failed to understand how ministerial transitions have happened over 52 years of independence (that’s about 10 general elections). All that history does not matter to Lungu. His only selfish interest is how to steal more money and steal the August elections by having his sidekicks to continue running govt.
#ChagwaMustFall
What maturity, this is the pomposity of incumbency. The people that hand over are PSs. What if the new president doesn’t need ministry of tourism who does the sitting minister hand over to. But PSs being civil servants will be absorbed in the system for redeployment or retirement, so humble drunk don’t mislead us.
Look at these clauses..
138. (1) The term of Parliament shall be five years commencing from the date that the Members of Parliament are sworn into office after a general election and ending on the date that parliament is dissolved.
(3) The term of a provincial assembly is five years commencing from the date Members of Parliament are sworn into office after a general election and ending on the date
Parliament is dissolved.
(6) The term of a council shall be five years commencing from the date the councillors are sworn into office after a general election and ending on the date Parliament is dissolved.
Well, let the courts assist on these.. Of course there are other clauses that must be read together with previous articles, etc..
trying to appear very clever at law. Kakistokrat!
Just an embarrassment how things are done in Zambia.
Questions to answer:
1. Will Lungu also continue to appoint or fire Ministers during this same period?
2. or will He behave like an Acting President (Scott after Sata & RB after Levy) who were constitutionally restrained from appointing & firing erring Ministers appointed by a deceased President during the 90 days transitional window?
3. What happens if 49 or all of the 50 Ministers resigned ,say, in June on their own accord?
4. Will he replace the resigned Ministers from outside parliament in June?
Please Lungu do the right thing to stop embarrassing yourself further!
Awa sure!!!!!!! Whoever gave this man a law degree made a big mistake. This is total nonsense. No president has ever gone against the constitution like this one. It tells you a lot what will happen if he rigs these elections to win. God help Zambia. Does he also understand that these interpretations cost tax payers money?? Zambians please ensure you remove Lungu
Can someone please cite anytime in Zamnia’s history when Ministers remained in post after the dissolution of Parliament. Clearly, this matter will help confirm whether our courts are truly independent or not.
A blog full of people with G12 certificates of complaining and insults. no time to analyze topics all you start with is complaining. If its destined for HH to win, he will surely win and nothing can stop him. The amount of hate you people have is unmeasured. I wonder how your faces look like. from what i read, i think you are a danger to this country. change and accept reality
Clueless,visionless,useless,heartless,hopeless,dullness,brainless,ruthless and a drunkard should just pack and go to the shambles of chawama bars.
Most stupid law! How can a winning opposition party start working with a vanquished cabinet because ministers have to hand over and especially when policies of each party are different? Is it one way of forcing parties to mention upfront what their cabinet would look like on assuming leadership? Nshatala monapo!
BA NJOVU @1.1 THE REAL REASON OF THIS BLANDER IS ZAMBIANS’ POOR OR LACK OF READING CULTURE, APPARENTLY, WHICH IS EVEN MASSIVELY WITH OUR MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THE PRESIDENTS AND MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS OF THESE POLITICAL PARTIES. JUST IMAGINE, EVEN SUCH A BIG THING HAD NO NOTICE FROM OUR SO CALLED LAW-MAKERS AND OPPOSITION POLITICAL PARTIES. THE OPPOSITION INVESTED ALL THEIR ENERGIES IN INSULTING AND DEFAMING ECL AND PF LEAVING TASKS OF BEING REAL OPPOSITION APRTIES- CHECKS AND BALANCES. ECL AND PF WHO ARE FAR AHEAD OF THE OPPOSITION INVESTED THEIR ENERGIES NOT ONLY IN INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT, BUT ALSO IN UNDERSTANDING THE CONSTITUTION. CIMO NAMU CLASS- EMPTY TINS JUST MAKE THE LOUDEST NOISE BUT WITH ZERO PERFORMANCE.
Ba PamaFi na boss wabo , despite having GONE to UNIVERSITY & Law School for that matter – lets be truthful, the chap just INHABITED the four walls of Law school – NEVER PICKED UP A THING, as we all KNOW, GRAMMAR IN ENGLISH LAW IS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND/INTERPRET – it is NO WONDER WE have a president THAT STILL DOESN’T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING IN LAW!!!
THE ONLY THING THAT HE PICKED UP FROM UNZA WAS HOW TO SURVIVE NITE IN NITE OUT IN KALINGALINGA’s SHEBEEN’S – We can all appreciate his experience!!!
HE SHOULD BE TRIED FOR NOT UPHOLDING THE CONSTITUTION HE SWORE TO UPHOLD!!! Where is the Constitutional Court?????? This Chap HAS FAILED TO PROTECT CITIZENS, FAILED TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION, PRESIDED OVER GRAND CORRUPTION – no wonder he wasn’t invited to the London Summit!!
Vote…
Vote WISELY 11/8/2016!! VOTE ZAMBIA FORWARD!! VOTE UPND!! Abantu baya!!
#Chagwamustfall!! PamaFikuyabebele!!
I thank you!!
Neutral, HE will not fire nor hire any minister during this period.
VISION LESS LUNGU! WHAT A DRAMA! LUNGU IS A COMPLETELY FAILED PROJECT FOR ZAMBIA. LUNGU IS MEDIOCRE!
Have a lawyer in state house does not help any way, its Africa or selfishness.
This man is trying to push SIs to keep him in power through cabinet. Lets wait and see.
Hand over means explaining where the files are, and what is the budget.
That can be done in writing or video recording.
Edgar will put Zambia on fire if not careful.our tempers are high kaa!
where is that zambia in your home?
Mwebantu mulakumbwa bu refugee atini? Iwe ganja farmer think of your family: siblings, parents, children, if you have any, and a host of other relatives before you say styupid things. They will end up as refugees because of your styupid talk. Worse still, they may end up as manure. Grow up sha!
@ganja farmer
If your temper is high smoke more of that ganja you cultivate and throw yourself in the river to help quench your hot temper. Meanwhile, life will still go on for the rest of us.
@3 IT’S PEOPLE WHO DON’T READ WHO WILL PUT ZAMBIA ON FIRE. INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ECL ON SOMETHING HE IS INTERPRETING CORRECTLY, PEOPLE SHOULD BE QUESTION THEIR MPs WHY THEY ARE THERE IN PARLIAMENT. THIS IS BECAUSE MPs SHOULD HAVE SPOTTED THIS CLAUSE A LONG TIME AGO AND QUESTIONED IT. HOW DO YOU GET CALLED TO HAND-OVER AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN FIRED? I THOUGHT PEOPLE HANDOVER BEFORE THEY HAVE LEFT THEIR JOB. CAN YOU REALLY AGREE TO COME TO HAND OVER LONG AFTER YOU EMPLOYER HAS FIRED YOU?
Shut up and sit down. *****. Too much ganja in you
A great pity. The Presidebt has dribbled himself and PF. Watch this space. The court of moral justice has already passed a verdict and it will show in due course. Sad!
KKKKKKK what hand over? You Mr. President we have those ‘small offices’ called office of the Permanent Secretary (PS) they actually head of civil service they are all knowing well unless you politicize the post. The Minister is but a mere functionary who serves at the Presidents pleasure whilst the true civil servant unless otherwise serve as a career. Indeed we too shall accept the ruling from the courts but what will remain intact will be the Party Central Committee but not Cabinet as this is tied to government funds and structures.
Ellena
The problem is that is what the new constitution saying. They must hand over. so who do you want to come and hand over if they are dissolved with parliament. Do be in the past when the document is for the present. Ubulimi bwakale
Thanks.
Does it mean those opposed to this never saw it ????
I doubt if they read it. They are just using logic. And logic is not always reality. This is the problem of not reading. If Dr Scot did not understand the G12 clause -as he voted for it. This country has been ruled by Kaponyas for a long time. Next time the 12 clause shouild read must have a Grade 12 certificate not Minimum.
AS USUAL (THE POOR OR LACK OF READING HABBIT AMONG ZAMBIANS), THEY NEVER READ IT. THE MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENTS, THE OPPOSITION LEADERS WITH THEIR MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE MEMBERS SIMPLY NEVER READ IT. THEY WERE SIGNING AWAY THE DOCUMENT THEY NEVER KNEW ITS CONTENTS. GROSS NEGLIGENCE OF DUTY ON OUR MPs AND OPPOSITION PARTIES WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO DO CHECKS AND BALANCES.
This is nonsense which Law is he talking about. I think Lawyers are the most dull People ,they are misleading us.
Is this dull drunkard Lungu really a lawyer or just a clueless ignorant arrswhole with a fake qualification?
Does he not even understand the document that he himself signed?
How did Zambia end up with such a clueless clown in State House?
Does he even know how to read? Maybe he is cross-eyed from too many Jamesons!
Useless, no more docility. This is not the first govt, as it has been in the past so shall it be, sorry Mr President, your time is up and today for your ministers
In the past ministers have remained in office read
Ganja farmer,
Why is your temper high? Reduce on smoking your product
PARLIAMENT DISSOLVES TODAY.
The Country yet again has been embroiled in yet another debate following the revelation that Ministers will continue in office .Law scholars and pundits have yet unleashed varying thoughts on this matter as they quote
clauses of the constitution.Well i wish to add my own and arrive at my own conclusion.
May his soul rest in Peace a French philosopher Charles Montesque postulated the concept of separation of powers.He argued every Government should have three arms with different functions been the Executive,Legislature and Judiciary.
According to the Zambian Constitution,
Aricle 62 of the constitution states that:
(1)There is established the Parliament of Zambia which consists of the President and the National Assembly.(4)A member of the National Assembly…
(4)A member of the National Assembly shall be referred to as a Member of Parliament.
Article 91 of the Constitution states that
(2)The executive authority of the State vests in the President
and, subject to this Constitution, shall be exercised directly by the
President or through public officers or other persons appointed by
the President. and
Artcle 118(1) The judicial authority of the Republic derives from
the people of Zambia and shall be exercised in a just manner and
such exercise shall promote accountability.
This is how our Constitution has highlighted this separation of powers.Like in England and Zambia,the president appoints his Minister ,who form party of the executive from among members of parliament.The executive Authority vest in the President such powers derived…
from the people.In England the prime Minister appoints the ministers.When a Member of parliament is appointed ,a member sadly or fortunate or unfortunately becomes a member of both the Legislature and the Executive.When parliament disolves and by the way the President is part of Parliament.So when it is disolved,everyone ceases to be a member of parliament but does that mean the Executive is disolved?.There is nothing in the constitution that suggest that the life of executive is dependent on the life of parliament.
The executive moves with the president.Minister are not appoint by parliament for them to disolve when it does so.The executive Authority for the life of the branch is the President.
This is in tandemn with what happens when parliament in England dissolves.Parliament and…
Thanks.
I thought you will quote some Zambian/African scholars to deal with matters of Pan African-ism…??? What has a French or English or an American scholar got to do with what Chadwa sayth, or of matters purely Zambian??
Be proud of your African-ess, MABALA!
Thank you for that clarification
But since by the Constitution ministers are appointed from members of parliament, elected or nominated, it follows that when parliament is dissolved, such appointment becomes untenable as the appointees cease to be members of Parliament. According to our Constitution, no members of Parliament, no Cabinet, as there is no provision for appointment of ministers outside of Parliament. The issue of handover is another flaw in the Constitution that conflicts with the tenure of ministerial appointments. The Constitutional Court must play their role.
ARE WE BRITONS
two issues,
No. 1, UK has well established parliamentary democracy and, most importantly, INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY in true sense of INDEPENDENT OF ANY LEGISLATIVE OR EXECUTIVE INFLUENCE.
No. 2. Have you ever seen HM Prime Minister in motorcade consisting of at least 60 vehicles? Why not? Have you seen British little Brigadier General having motorcade with siren blazing and Military Police brandishing guns?
Think. Answer is there.
We do not live in REAL Parliamentary Democracy.
One third of our Hon. MP are there because of convenience and prestige (never mind lining theirs “pockets” by “assisting” friends and relatives with few favours);
second one third should have mandatory IQ test instead of been holders G12 certificate and
last one third cannot find spelling mistake…
… on LT, never-mind thinking in English or understanding difference between spoken English and legal English. At the Committee stage they follow party line without understanding what are discussing. What you think, how many of our Hon. MP’s have read just ONE BOOK in past 4 years and 8 months?
Given the Legal system in Zambia as is the case with the rest of the commonwealth, and we are therefor prone to follow the tradition of Britain, let me offer something that may be of some interest and more, which may elucidate on this point.
What happens to the Government when Parliament is dissolved?
Parliament and Government are two separate institutions.
The Government does not resign when Parliament is dissolved. Government ministers remain in charge of their departments until after the result of the election is known and a new administration is formed.
The Prime Minister is appointed by the Sovereign. Ministers are appointed by the Sovereign on the advice of the Prime Minister. These appointments are independent of the role of MP. Ministers retain their ministerial titles…
This is in tandemn with what happens when parliament in England dissolves.Parliament and Government are two separate institutions.
The Government does not resign when Parliament is dissolved. Government ministers remain in charge of their departments until after the result of the election is known and a new administration is formed.
The Prime Minister is appointed by the Sovereign. Ministers are appointed by the Sovereign on the advice of the Prime Minister. These appointments are independent of the role of MP. Ministers retain their ministerial titles after dissolution, but those who were MPs can no longer use the MP suffix.(Source.www.parliament.uk).
Conclusion:
Hon Dr Chishimba Kambwili will cease to be a Member of Parliament but he will continue serving as a Minister as a member…
This is not UK.
Mr Gondwe,
Most students of Law ,knows the french philospher,he was among those who elucidated the principle of separation of powers.Nothing against PanAfricanism.Am a true PanAfricanist.Take its easy.The President and Government are right on this issue.
Drums of war
It not UK that true but what i was driving you to is to understand the principle of separation of powers.In fact ,Zambia has Common Law system derived from Uk,Most of the statutes are from Uk.But the point is its the law,Nothing illegal about it ,i am in support of the government position.the role of MPs and Minister are different and the disolution of an MP cannot disolve the executive arm of government.Do you know that the preseident is part of Parliament and as it stands the president will be disolved from parliament.
OMG, who is this chikombola misleading people? Anti president is also a parliamentarian? I’we guy? Liar!
Obbbious Chikombola, you are misleading the people by stating that it is in Tandem with happens in the UK. What you have omitted here is that and correct me if I am wrong, the ministers that are appointed in the UK can come from outside parliament. In our case, one can only be a minister if he is a member of parliament. If he is not, he can never be a part of cabinet hence the argument to state, you can only be part of cabinet if you are an MP isn’t it. Now if you are not an MP how have you found yourself as a minister. I honestly think this clause was only put because there was another clause that proposed that cabinet ministers be appointed from parliament. Now because the constitution was hurried, they forgot to remove this problematic clause and people are now confusing themselves
Ala this Lungu is a wise man. It is very true, they remain in office until hand over. So they will need to have access to all the privileges of a minister until after hand over. This is the constitution UPND dander heads adopted in parliament. Y complain
the dunder-head is you who cant spell dunder-head
mwe bantu it’s not a matter of handing over at play here… This shows that even EL has not read the articles surrounding the issue and he has forgotten the DRAFT CONSTITUTION whose article stated, in view of separation of powers that; the EXECUTIVE (members be appointed from outside NA- MPs).. If ministers exist under Art. 116. (1) –The President shall appoint a prescribed number
of Members of Parliament as Ministers…. THEN THE MINISTERS SHOULD BE IN THE FIRST PLACE, BE THE MPs, not the past MPs..
THEN, the cabinet under Art 114 (a- e,i, ii) functions only in view of taking their approval to National Assembly… This entails that if the cabinet were to exist under the current constitution it’s illegal coz its not according to its laid down functions and conditions of its…
Linda stop misleading the nation. How do you address the issue of handover?
Through the permanent secretaries who actually are more equipped with knowledge than your dull ministers and president combined.
The poor reading culture we have in this nation will always put us in trouble. Its not long ago some “high caliber” people cried foul over the grade 12 clause. Now its the cabinet remaining issue. What sort of people do we have in parliament. The cabinet remain ofcourse is a benefit to the party in government but those learned people from the opposition, the lawyers and economic managers, didn’t they see this. If they can’t handle straight forward issues like going through a constitution thoroughly, how will they manage a complex issue as running a country is. The country is full of people with conflicting interests. Where someone wants a shopping complex, others would want a sports complex like the case of looters in libala.
Balefwaya more tobela .The brain of any ministry is the PC and these guys can do better than fi bena Kambwili Ka Chikwanda and the likes . Is he implying that the previous governments got it all wrong and he is the clever one?
None… EL TABELENGA WHAT HE ASSENTED
Since the pf secession disputes after the death of Micheal Sata, I don’t these guyz!
Someone help me – which clause in the Constitution talks about Ministers handing over to new Ministers. Seriously I have not seen it in the version of the Constitution I have. As an alleged Lawyer, Edgar should know the concept of “Substance over form”. Members of Parliament are appointed as Ministers. Does it not then logically follow that when one ceases to be an MP by virtue of Parliament being dissolved they cannot continue to be a Minister. It is said: common sense is not common. Going by what is happening, this is definitely right.
THIS IS THE WAY WE FEEL WHEN WE LOSE JOBS. SOMETIMES WE CLING ON UNTIL TRUTH FINALLY DAWNS. WE SEEK FOR LABOUR MINISTRY INTERVENTION ,BUT ALAS! CONSOLATION GUYS…500,000 JOBS BY DEC 2016. MORE JOBS COMING APPLY TO THE ZAMBIANS…
I have a question
Can the president make an appointment in the event that one or two cabinet ministers resign? If he cannot on the basis that there is no parliament to appoint from, then those who are holding office lack legitimacy.
Ministers that remain shall act in positions that are vacated. No fresh appointments.
A cabinet minister is appointed on the basis of being a serving member of parliament therefore when such a minister ceases to be member of parliament, he is need the appointment as cabinet minister becomes null and void. This is so because the platform of his conditional appointment is taken away. Therefore such a member is disqualified to hold position cabinet minister
When one reads the the comments posted, you clearly get a reflection of the long held notion that we do not read and that if you want to hide something, put it in a book, and in this case the Constitution. The Amendments to the Constitution were circulated for all Zambians to read and debate. And mind you the submissions of what is contained came from mainly the so called experts and technical teams and a large part our own thoughts of what we felt was needed to make our constitution, stand the test of time. And we should not forget, we pushed govt, day in and day out, to give us Our Constitution, and all they did was give us what we had submitted ourselves. Whenever govt would query a submission, we would shout in chorus, it is our Constitution. Now let’s sit and “eat” what we…
Well people do read but the amended constitution was not open to debate. The justice minister took what he called “non-contentious clauses” to parliament. Others were short down and only a few passed. These clauses supplement each other. So once you remove one, the other becomes unclear or vulnerable. Secondly LAZ advised against a piecemeal amendment but the executive decided to go ahead with a view of delivering a new constitution. Things have now backfired! SC John Sangwa also gave sound advice over the same but he was ignored. We have created a monster that will be very difficult to kill.
Ngoma ya whatever, have you forgotten about the cries for the people driven constitution, adopted not in parts like the PF has done? When they were telling you about contentious issues, its not that they meant dua citizenship, or minimum G 12 for elected leaders… Contentious issues where like, APPOINTING MINISTERS FROM OUTSIDE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY… they’ve rejected that Article and put it out, which was IN SUPPORT OF THE SEPARATION OF POWERS AND FACILITATED THE STAY OF CABINET EVEN AFTER DISSOLUTION OF PARLEY…
The ‘OASIS’ Forum, which I believe is now the ‘DROUGHT’ Forum after being embarrassed over the Constitution, wanted it passed as it is without any changes because they thought ECL would change it to suit himself. ECL gave Zambians what they want, so what is all the noise about now. This is what happens when you do things impulsively in order to fix somebody. You end up fixing yourself.
The President never ceases to amaze me. He was aware of the confusion that might arise so why did he get the law amended to clarify the position? He created this confusion so as to take advantage of this situation. In the interest of the Nation when he signed the amended constitution why did nt he clarify the law b4 signing the amendment? This President does not seem to act responsibly and instead looks for loopholes to exploit to eithers his advantage or his party. This President does not understand that Ministries are headed by their Permanent Secretaries who are Accounting Officers or CEOs. The handover/takeover of Ministries is done at this level and not from one politician to another politician. That is why if a Minister is sacked by the President there is no provision for a handover…
READING, READING, READING, READING, LETS READ THE CONSTITUTION ZAMBIA, IT`S VERY CLEAR!!
the problem is not reading it is interpretation.
@ steve
And the big mouth call himself “analyst” (LOL)
Confuse your enemy in order to win, is what is happening here.
The President is taking advantage of this confusion but the law is very clear. Ministers are appointed from serving MPs. Now that Parliament is dissolved MPs cease to be MPs and those MPs who were appointed Ministers cease to be Ministers. The President was elected directly by the electorate and will remain in office until handing over to a new President after being sworn in office. The Vice President was an MP of the dissolved Parliament and should cease to be VP upon the dissolution of Parliament. Ministers are politicians and as such have nothing to handover. New Ministers are briefed by their Permanent Secretaries and officials of their Ministries. Handover/takeover applies to Civil Servants and not Ministers who are politicians and have nothing to handover.
Ecl told you to study the draft before minister presented it in parley but you were busy saying that we want a Tonga president. Nomba sonta apo wabombele.
You i.diot be serious for once as this is not a simple matter. Who do you think you are you shi.t with your tribalism, go back to the caves/holes.
ECL appealed to Zambians to read it. People read and always replace what is written in black and white with their opinions. Reading with ECL in mind.
have you forgotten about the cries for the people driven constitution, adopted not in parts like the PF has done? When they were telling you about contentious issues, its not that they meant dua citizenship, or minimum G 12 for elected leaders… Contentious issues where like, APPOINTING MINISTERS FROM OUTSIDE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY… they’ve rejected that Article and put it out, which was IN SUPPORT OF THE SEPARATION OF POWERS AND FACILITATED THE STAY OF CABINET EVEN AFTER DISSOLUTION OF PARLEY… yet they maintained other articles that were supposed to be read togather with the article that stated that ministers be appointed from outside members of National Assembly… If articles were debated and voted in parliament 1 by 1, they’d have realised this fallacy or if what parliament came up with…
cont….
or if what parliament came up with was then presented to the people for a referendum, and not the orchestrated presidential assent, we would have made them understand the contradictions of the the route they used to adopt the amended constitution… Infact the contentious issues are now on our constitution created by removing some of the articles in the parts of the Draft Constitution, to replace some parts of of the old constitution….
Legislative power is out but executive power remains naimwe. Yaaba. You were warned Fi ngocc. Now there tongues want to come out. Spare us the stress. ECL nafuti
then that follows that MPs also need to stay to handover to the in coming mps!!!!!!, even counselors i believe
The President is not part of Parliament. He is part of the National Assembly. The president appoints ministers from the MPs or those he has appointed as MPs so if parliament is dissolved the ministers cease from being MPs. Therefore they automatically stop from being stop functioning as ministers. Why is the President not appointing people who are not MPs into the executive if there is separation of powers?
May I ask learned lawyers, If the marriage is dissolved by the court of law , can the former wife & husband continual staying together? If your answer is yes then on what grounds???????????
ECL and his Govt have failed the people of Zambia on the constitution issues just like on the economy and political environment. ECL failed to show leadership on constitution making process and left everything to nobody until he signed it out of excitement and laziness. Careful presidents before him pondered on all implications and no wonder they did not rush this. The constitution he signed was doctored by him and his stooges without consideration of the overall effect of some removed proposals on the overall application of the constitution. He is truly a failed president who has created unwarranted constitutional crisis in Zambia. A Zombie for a president indeed
The General warned this lazy bum Edgar but he hastly signed it!
Bushe kanshi, what kind of a President is this Jameson Kachasu? Even in simple football rules, you need to belong to a club to play for the national team, so if you are not a member of parliament, why should you continue to be a minister? How many governments have changed in Zambia and ministers ceased to be such when parliament was dissolved? What makes his tired and useless government so special? Mr Kachasu, please just pack your bags and go kwa mutenguleni, do not put this country on fire waumfwa.
Awe bane just read ka document. It is so clear. Even if drunk with Kachasu nkumfwa.
116. (1) The President shall appoint a prescribed number
of Members of Parliament as Ministers.
Once the parliament is dissolved, will any of them be members of Parliament? if yes then i also think MPs should wait to handover.
Being an MP is just an entry point. The problem will be there when a minister resigns, fired or dies. That’s when those issues of being an MP will rise. The best we can do is just to take the new constitution back to the drawing board. Listen to piloto’s song and insults from NGOs and UPND when PF delayed the constitution. Let’s all say we demanded for a wrong constitution. Be careful you may remove the right govt and bring in a wrong one.
We are removing this failed Govt of yours. Failed to make a lasting constitution, failed us economically, failed us politically or democratically. This is a failed Govt and a danger to Zambia. It will be removed in August 2016. SATA confessed the uselessness of his MPs who unfortunately after his demise have ended being President and VEEP in his absence and the useless results are there for you to see.
Current PF leadership cant give us hope for the future, they are so clueless on everything apart from campaigning for 5 years to retain there power at all costs even when they have destroyed everything including the constitution of Zambia.
@Gloria, there is nothing wrong with the document. You can read both the draft and the amended constitution. Grade 12 certificate as a minimum requirement, and tenure of the executive- president, vice-president and ministers is very clear. Kushupafye.
People forget that they shall bein government at an appointed time as well. No need to creat drama when it is not warranted.
Lucy my sister its not Edgar but you and me have failed this country. If we didn’t push Lungu to sign the constitution this problem wouldn’t be there. Be careful with your desire to change this govt. You may bring more problems like the new constitution.
ECL was not the first president to be pushed for a new constitution. What we told him is People driven constitution and not ECL driven but there h was amending the draft with his stooges and now see the result of that. ECL was just too excited, myopic and childish that he even wrote a wrong date when he was assenting his useless constitution at Heroes Stadium.
@Lucy, the circumstances does not really favour change of government. Anyway we it to you the politicians perhaps you understand things better.
ECL should take full responsibility for the whole messy as leader and President of Zambia like he did on his poor reactions on ritual murders. You cant blame the citizens who gave him mandate to Govern in a responsible manner. He is not up to the task hence should be removed. SIMPLE
It amazes me how the President of a Republic can choose to deliberately misinterpret the constitution. Can he say exactly what article and clause he is referring to when he says cabinet will remain after dissolution of parliament?
U chaps are making unnecessary noise are just *****s!!! Even in developed countries where constitution courts…Infact not far from us South Africa. It’s been almost 21 years their new constitution….and todate, it still is subject to various interpretations by their constitution Court. In short, it’s not perfect as presented and will be refined as we go along. It’s not an overnite perfection ba chimbwi!!!!
If I were a minister, I would rather resign after parliament dissolves other than put myself in trouble for nothing. May the presidential advisors advice our good leader properly otherwise they are putting him through a lot of problems and embarrassment should the governance of Zambia tilt the other way. What the president is suggesting is INDIRECTLY appointing the Ministers from outside parliament, which article was thrown out of the constitution. Honestly one can not insist to maintain the position when the qualification that brought you into that position has become unattainable. The presidents position would have been very correct had the MPS not opted to throw out the provision in the draft which required Ministers to be appointed outside parliament.
Lungu ni Chibwi
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT the constitution does not allow the president to appoint cabinet ministers outside parliament . after dissolution of parliament all members of parliament whether elected or nominated vacate office . In view of this you cannot have a cabinet minister who is not a member of parliament . If a minister by any cause or reason loses his or her seat the president will be forced to drop that minister because he is no longer a member of parliament. If the clause to allow the president to appoint ministers outside parliament was approved and included the president would have re-appointed them using the same clause . AS it is even if dissolution of parliament is not sited as a means of vacating office by virtue of losing a prerequisite of appointment – being a…
The President is a lawyer who does not know the Constitution. Executive powers are vested in him. He only appoints ministers to assist him in the discharge of his executive powers. The President can technically and legally operate without the ministers or some of them (one of the reasons there has always been an out cry about the excessive executive powers) So it is no big deal not having any ministers after Parliament is dissolved. There is no legal provision that I know of, about ministers handing over to new ministers. I don’t know where Lungu gets that from.
This is a non-issue. The so called Cabinet or Ministers must vacate offices. They can always come back to handover when the new Cabinet and Ministers assume office. It is just like working on a contract. When your contract ends, you do not perpetuate your stay or get paid until you handover. No one is forcing you to be kept in active service. Go your way, come back to handover if at all you are needed to!! You can fool some people sometimes, but not all the people all the times. The Permanent Secretaries, who are the Controlling Officers are in the position to conduct the briefings for both the outgoing and incoming politician.
What is the preliqusite of being a cabinet minister? What happens when that preliqusite is no longer valid? Forgive me I don’t read the law I study science and engineering. Can you be a cabinet minister without being s member of parliament? What has been the practice before the amended constitution? Where the outgoing cabinet and deputy minister occupying office on the basis of the amended constitution of the old one? Forgive my ignorance learned lawyers.
NOOO
That is my point concerning even bigger issues of life or death, the bible! Christianity today don’t read the bible & are deceived left & right for lack of knowledge. 2pet 3:15, 16, warns that some people will twist Paul’s writing to there own destruction. Now Paul writes:”..Christ is the end of the law…” ROM 10:24. But James 2:10-12, says who ever shall breaks one law, breaks the whole law & Jesus say he did not come to end the law- matth 5:17,18. Now reading the scriptures quoted it is like the bible is contradicting itself, yet the are all in harmony.how? The law in reference by Paul that ended when Jesus came is clear in Heb.10:5-9, about sacrifices & offering, which symbolically represented the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, notice that this law was written in a book & not…
This is the agony of piecemeal changes!!! God Graciously hear our prayers.
I think this is when the president shows leadership and does the right thing. The stay of these ministers is costing tax payers money and chances of them looting to finance elections is very high especially that there are a lot of dishonest people in PF. Lungu you vowed to protect the Zambian people and part of entails that the resources belonging to Zambians should be respected. All past presidents have respected the law please do the right thing. Zambia does not belong to you alone.
They say the law is an ass, a prime one for that matter. What on face value looks simple turns out complicated. Who thought a simple statement that “if you haven’t a grade 12 certificate then furnish us with it’s equivalent” would be so hard to understand? I can’t believe people with doctorates panicked because they didn’t have a grade 12! Now we have the cabinet issue and it has to go to court for an interpretation because the president and his legal team are too lazy and drunk to bother reading!
Continue: Not on stone tables. Who wrote this law? Deut 31:24-26, says moses wrote this book of the law, notice he commanded that the book to be put not in the ark but beside the ark! If this book of the law was not put in the ark, what then was in the ark? 1kings8:9, says there was nothing in the ark only the ten commandments. Why were they not put together? I will answer below. Which law did James refer to if you break one you break all? It is clear in James 2:11, he referred to the 10 commandments. Who wrote them? Exod 31:18, says it was God. So the law that ended at the cross was not the ten commandments but the book of the law written by moses the 10 commands still stands if you break one you break all. They include the seventh day sabbath Hebrews 4:2,3,4 9,,10,11 read in your bible
I never knew we have dull politicians we don’t have a close of ministers being apointed outside parliament in the constitution so why remain ministers when their is no parliament? What a shame!
Why did ECL rush to sign a defective constitution, these are the results
imagine! tax payers money flashed down the drain.
My son ECL, give not thy strength to wine and strange women lest you forget the Law of the land and betray the cause of the poor … Proverbs chapters 30 and 31.
A reminder for you – which may help in this argument: 28th July, 2011.
President Rupiah Banda has dissolved parliament and cabinet, and has set 20th September as the date for this year’s tripartite elections.
But president Banda says he and the vice president will continue running affairs of the nation and representing Zambia in international affairs until another government is ushered into office.But president
A reminder for you – which may help in this argument: 28th July, 2011.
President Rupiah Banda has dissolved parliament and cabinet, and has set 20th September as the date for this year’s tripartite elections.
But president Banda says he and the vice president will continue running affairs of the nation and representing Zambia in international affairs until another government is ushered into office.
In 2011 Rupiah Banda was using the old constitution. In 2016 Edgar Lungu is using the new constitution.
In English this is called a transition period from the old to the new constitution. You do not have to be a lawyer to interpret this straight forward issue.
No one has complained about MPs serving for only 4 years and 7 months instead of 5 years.
Is it because someone has cheated the other one that he is going to win elections?
The President is right the Executive is independent .
Mr Banda is not a lawyers
My my my even blind PF cadres surely can now see that the constitution you rushed through parliament is flawed.
Ministers are appointed from among members of parliament, now if there is no parliament how do you have a minister. They are ministers by virtue of being members of parliament.
Social media can be good as well as dangerous tool. The insults & disrespect are very unZambian. It is also revealing about which group is more sincere. One group is shouting that Lungu Constitution is useless & in same breath saying we shall chuck him out on 11.8.16, a date they know only because same Lungu enacted same constitution. Another group is saying Constitution is fine & has no faults. The truth is that Constitution is not perfect but is a leap above the previous one. Take time to read & understand it & if youre sincere you’ll find it is most important act President Lungu & Parliament took to positively transform our country. God Bless Zambia.
The Chosen 1mbecile has crapped in public again!
We shall physically arrest all ministers who will report for work on Monday or vist any constituency using Government vehicles to show them that Zambians no the law.Citizenship arrest is the only solution.
A Zesco, chi transformer Chanu chaphulika kuno ku Kabangwe. No power now
Can’t believe this entire president is choosing to mislead himself and the nation over a straight forward issue. The prerequisite for being a minister is that one has to be an MP. Thus if the title of an MP is stripped, a person ceases to be a minister period. Arguing ‘hand over’ is lame and he’s breaking the constitution. Handing over doesn’t necessarily mean physical handshake. Who ‘hands over’ when a minister dies in office? Or how were’hand overs’ done previously?
The PSs and the president himself can ‘hand over’. He wants to abuse govt resources and not level the playing field.
As for G. 12 the constitution is silent on what constitutes ‘higher’ but I think the judge is right in his interpretation.
My understanding is that cabinet – as the case is in most countries – is one arm of the executive branch in Zambia. If this so, dissolution of parliament cannot result in ministers ceasing to perform their ministerial functions, unless one is arguing that the executive branch has also been dissolved. This nuisance has resulted from imperfect separation of powers between the executive and the legislative arms of government. One way of curing this is to appoint ministers from outside parliament. Sadly when the proposal to appoint cabinet ministers from outside parliament was debated, our MPs, from both the ruling party and the opposition, shot it down. One only hopes that this will be revisited in the next parliament after the August 2016 elections.
I dont understand why even LAZ fails to comprehend this. Dissolving cabinet now would leave a vacuum in the government. There functions that only a minister can execute. Why then would we allow the president and vice president to remain in office. The VP is appointed from MPs as well.
The President created this confusion to gain advantage. The President wants these Ministers to remain in their posts so that they can help him rig and win these upcoming elections. The President forgets that he took an oath to respect and uphold the constitution of Zambia. For selfish reasons the President is now breaching the constitution and in a normal democracy he would be impeached for breaching the constitution. Ministers who choose to remain in their posts illegally will be prosecuted soon. The President must respect and uphold rule of law and allow these Ministers to resign and avoid litigation and liability after elections.
If they are using a new constitution then it means that even lungu is there illegally because he was not voted using 50+1 clause which is in a new constitution.
This is unconstitutional and unprecedented. LPM did, however, keep his VP in post prior to elections. The new Constitution has been canibalised, starting with LPM then RB and now the current government. I would argue that the Mung’omba version was best left unaltered. Zambia’s democracy should be rooted in strong Republican tenets, not a mishmash of things mostly drawn from misconceived ideas. We are not a constitutional monarch either. Let the courts decide.
The matter is simple so is the argument. RB disolved cabinet in 2011 setting a precedence. Lungu is a crooked president who hopes to take advantage of incumbency. He wants to take advantage of government resources in the campaign period. We only have ourselves to blame for electing a lawyer who swindeled a client. A man who won the presidency by pangas. It’s high time Zambians became serious about who they vote for lest we end up in a civil war.
The lazy bum wants to continue going all over the country with 30 GRZ vehicles full of PF officals under the pretense of a working visit!!
Leave them alone. They add no value and won’t even get more kaloba.since there is no parliament to increase the foreign debt ceiling.
Remember what the wise Brigadier General Godfrey Miyanda said to these empty tins? He pleaded with them to not hastily sign but thorough read it first but Lazy Lungu was more interested in what he was going to wear at the signing ceremony at the Independence stadium.
So if they wanted to continue why didn’t they say ‘upon dissolution of NA and Parly, the Ministers will remain in office to hand over to the incoming ministers’ PF and FDD have different policies so what will one hand over to the other the office keys? Pakuti even Ambassadors don’t hand over the two don’t even meet….
Given the Legal system in Zambia as is the case with the rest of the commonwealth, is a colonial legacy and we are therefor prone to follow the tradition of Britain or our respective colonizers ( South Africa adopting Dutch/Romanesque Legal Systems) especially where certain elements of our frameworks are concerned, also since we are as yet not as mature a democracy as so many ‘established democracies’ claim, would it not, also then follow that we, as even those in ‘established democracies’, not also be prone to debate constitutional points? President Lungu, seems to only have offered a democratic decision regards a constitutional matter to be put before those with some understanding on legal documents, namely the judiciary. let me then, offer something, that may be of some interest…
Lungu is the most incompetent president that Zambia has ever had. How Zambians voted for this drunkard is beyond my comprehension. This is not the first time parliament is being dissolved. GBM is right, we need a citizen arrest of an MP who will remain in office after parliament is dissolved. We urge all MPs to obey the Zambian Constitution and not Lungu. Let them refuse to Lungu’s orders.
The up and down are in a confused state. ECL is too advanced for them.
Their major campaign issue was going to be the constitution. It was delivered to the Zambian people.
Find time to read the constitution and you will stop politicizing everything
HOW WOULD UPND RUN GOVERNMENT IF THEY CAN FAIL TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION THEY FORCED LUNGU SIGN? WOULD HH THROW IT AWAY AND RULE USING COMMON SENSE. IT WORRIES SOME IF US AND MAKE US CAMPAIGN MIRE FID PF. WE ALSO ASK GOD TO HELP US AND STOP THE DEVIL FROM ACCESSING POWER IN THIS NATION THROUGH A KNOWN BITTER PERSON.
Did Vice-President, Minister or Deputy Minister have taken and subscribed to the oath of allegiance to the amended Constitution before Parliament was dissolved?
Article 116. (1) The President shall appoint a prescribed number of Members of Parliament as Ministers. (2) A Minister shall be responsible, under the direction of the President, for the policy and strategic direction of a Ministry, department or other State institution, as assigned by the President. (3) The office of Minister becomes vacant if— (a) the Minister is removed from office by the President; (b) the Minister resigns, by notice in writing to the President; (c) in the case of a nominated Member of Parliament, the nomination is revoked; (d) the Minister dies; (e) another person assumes the office of President; or (f) the Minister has a mental or physical disability that makes the Minister incapable of performing the functions of that office.Now if one ceases to be an MP, how can…
The up and down should read and understand the constitution
President does not make Law in Zambia. So this issue if its a lacuna falls squarely on MPs. When MPs removed the cabinet outside parliament article, they should have looked at all articles that go with it and change them accordingly. Not a single MP even from opposition brought this up. So leave the President out of this mess. All he does is wait for the legislature to do its job and hand over to him for signing. He has No powers to amend it.
Its an interesting development and lets wait maturely for the Court to guide us. This hatred and name calling is only a sign of simpletons, imbeciles and dunces who fail to live in a society of divergent views.
My word! what manner of lawyer is this who cannot understand what the constitution dictates? Lungu is not sharp.
Surely how low can the president get on this issue of Ministers cease to serve as such when Parliament is dissolved. We have all the history to refer to. Being independent for now 52 years one would think we have all the material to fall on. Each time we have the elections, the Parliament dissolves and minister cease to be ministers. The PS’s task is to hand over to the incoming Ministers. The president looks like he does not understand simple Civics. What he is about to do has never happened in Zambia
Clever ECL has done it again. The opposition supporters should not cry foul here. They had time to review the constitution and even cried that ECL was delaying the signing. No wonder ECL even laughed after signing the document at Heroes stadium. Pls live with it.