In an interview with Lusaka Star today, MacDonald Chipenzi who is also former FODEP Executive Director said there is no need for Zambia to pull out from the ICC because the country has no reputation of promoting misrule and dictatorship.
Mr Chipenzi said Zambians should not offer blind loyalty and solidarity over the withdrawal, and there are no justifiable reasons of getting out of the ICC.
“The ICC was established to promote good governance and protect the rights of all citizens from the abuses from their leaders and not the misconceptions that it was meant to prosecute African leaders,” said Mr Chipenzi.
Mr Chipenzi said those African countries agitating for withdrawing from the ICC will result in their countries becoming a den of mass grave to the majority citizens.
He said many citizens will have no control and say over the abuses from the leaders adding that this will create many leaders to become tyranny and promote their interests.
“As an electoral expert, will sensitize other civil society organizations to ensure that the move does not receive maximum support from the majority Zambians,” Mr Chipenzi said.
Mr Chipenzi said that the ICC was established to offer checks and balances on all the activities of the citizens as well as leaders in the World.
He said this should be a wakeup call to all African leaders to uphold the good leadership and good governance in order to cease to be valuable clients of the ICC.
Mr Chipenzi said Zambia can only pull out from the ICC by carrying out a referendum in order to seek out many voices on whether the country should move out or not.
Meanwhile, a University of Zambia Lecturer and Political Analyst, Evans Daka has called on President Edgar Lungu and his cabinet to subject the pulling out of Zambia from the ICC to the majority citizenry for the move to have a fair decision.
Mr Daka said the ICC is an autonomous and global institution with the mandate of safeguarding the rights of the people from the abuses of their leaders the World over.
He said that the judicial system in Zambia is compromised due to lack of separation of powers as such the move of pulling itself from the ICC won’t yield any results as leaders will not be held accounted once they commit atrocities against the people.
“The intentions of pulling out of ICC is a national issue that borders on all the citizens, so a wide consultations should be sought democratically through a referendum which is not actually very expensive as people need to be fully sensitized over a number of months,” said Mr Daka.
Mr Daka said before serious considerations are taken, President Lungu should examine the benefits of being a member of the ICC as this global body was set with the essence of the safety of majority people in the World.
He said that the ICC does not impose itself on prosecuting and investigating cases committed by member states but that the affected countries voluntarily take their cases to it if all the judicial avenues have been exhausted without reaching a harmonious conclusion to a larger extent.
Recently, President Lungu was quoted by some sections of the media saying that he will consult widely on whether Zambia should pull out from the ICC or not.
I remember in the UNIP days we used to call Paramilitary Police, “imbwa za Kaunda” It’s the same name befitting PF sponsored NGO’s. “PF guard dogs, they bark when the President tells them to do so.
@Lombe, I don’t remember us calling KK people like that. You have to stop insults chhikkala.
Let me call my friend Kapyongo to see if he can use our knowledge about you Lombe.
I DO NOT REMEMBER CALLING THE PARA-MILITARY POLICE, “imbwa za Kaunda”. IF BA LOMBE THAT’S WHAT YOU WERE CALLING THEM- THEN IT WAS JUST YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. REMEMBER THE NAME BA, “PARA”, WHICH WAS JUST AN ABREVIATION OF, “PARA-MILITARY POLICE”. NINSHI IWE, LOMBE, FAMILY YOBE (YOU AND YOUR PARENT, SIBLINGS, GRANDPARENTS, UNCLES, AUNT, COUSINS, ETC), TAMWAKWETE UMUCHINSHI?
Zambia, a basketfull of deplorables indeed…What a country, what a bunch of losers, and what a journalism practice which cannot spell correctly…That county needs to be wiped of the planet with nukes!!!
All African, Asian, middle Eastern and the Americas need to pull out of the ICC. Only dim Africans don’t see that former colonial masters control the ICC.
All bark and no bite!
IN THE FIRST PLACE THE THREE *****3 ABOVE IN THE PICTURE ARE LIERS. I NEVER READ ECL SAYING ZAMBIA IS GOING TO PULL OUT OF ICC. I CLEARLY READ HIM SAYING HE WILL CONSULT THE ZAMBIAN PEOPLE. BUT THESE DUNDERHEADS WANT TO CONFUSE ZAMBIA TO THINK ECL SAID ZAMBIA IS PULLING OUT OF ICC. THE PEOPLE OF ZAMBIA ESPECIALLY THOSE IN OPPOSITION PARTIES MUST LEARN TO SAY THE TRUTH. IN ANY CASE IT IS TRUE THAT ICC WAS FORMED UP TO AIM AT AFRICAN LEADERS AND THIS CAN BE SEEN BY HOW MANY AFRICAN LEADERS HAVE BEEN TRIED AND MAYBE EVEN PROSECUTED BY THE SAME. SERIOUS ALLEGED CRIMINALS WHO KILLED MAYBE IN MILLIONS IN IRAQ ON THE PLAIN LIE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION ARE STILL WALKING FREE. ICC IS A GOOD IDEA, ONLY IT AIMS AND VICTIMISES AFRICANS. SO, IN SHORT IT IS A USELESS THING.
It’s not a misconception, that the ICC has failed to act fairly and prosecute Western gov’ts. It’s correct that we now have a discourse in relation to this matter. We cannot have colonial like organisations above our gov’ts. We have to strengthen our Judiciary and act jointly in protecting our regions as demonstrated in Gambia recently when the Western Africans gathered military troops across borders to dispose of former President Yayaya (or whomever, loon nonetheless). Regional action is worth a look in. We must not allow high handed conduct by people who merely want to decide our Leaders. Our democratic rights cannot be overridden by foreign courts interfering.
Patriot, how long will that take, meanwhile we need the ICC until we have such strong systems which can stand up against the president like the judges hav e done in US, not adminatrations of poverty, fearing for their jobs and all
We’ve only just been invited to this discussion. Of course it’ll take time, but we need to have this on our Agenda.
I lamenent to see that in the year 2017 people still think its the white man that should govern and protect the rights of citizens of sovereign nations. What is the work of our leaders then. Im sure our fore fathers that died fighting for our freedom turn in their graves when they see this lazzy generation wine and dine with the very people that not only take our people as slaves, but also enslaved those that remained. And also continue to plunder africa of its resources. Wake up africa wake up zambia. A white man does not have your intrest at heart.
Instead of waking up and develop, Africans spend time butchering themselves and now wasting time debating on pulling off ICC. Being lazy and not working hard to make a difference. Whining and always complaining against a white man. Those who have the means and have open opportunities, all they focus on is abusing their own positions. Corruption. Greedy.
And if Africans are left to work together without muzungu, then it is all PHDs….majelasi!!!
Why don’t you talk about stopping African Immigrants flocking to Europe? Any initiative from AU to solve that problem? NOO!! you want Europe to solve it for you, then you have the guts to stand against Muzungu, why?
General Kanene, apples and oranges friend. Maybe your great great grandfather was a garden boy to a british citizen.
@ Wako… so you just want them only when you want aid and loans from but when they talk about your poor governace , you remembet that the are colonialst. You are such an hypocrite…what are fearing with your bululu or wako shame
for someone in canada it comes as a surprise that you criticize muzunguz yet you are in their country
Honestly, no need to leave ICC, I have said this before and I say it now and will continue. Those African dictators like Mugabe are the ones pulling the strings, and weaker and blind are following suite. ICC is not a colonial organisation, in fact, it keeps away such dictators like Mugabe not to inflict even more atrocities against their own people. Why do you think he is leaning on to power for life? He fears he will be extradited to the Haque. The argument that Blair or Bush should also be brought to justice, well, your own people first, that is the principle. Let Mugabe go and bomb the UK, then he will not be brought against ICC. But as long as Zimbabweans are being subject to cruelty, then lock those leaders. Period. Unless Zambia want to follow suite to support those dictators,…
The thinking of Chipenzi who survives on donor funding is backward. Membership of ICC is neither compulsory & nor free, so Lungu should take this chance to pull out. It is clear that the ICC persecutes African leaders only by our white brothers/sisters. Who perpetrates the so called crimes against humanity, civil wars, genocides? Is it not the same whites who sell arms to warring African factions to kill each other & after you help them to reap profits they turn round & take you to Hague for Crimes against Humanity. When they are selling you arms don’t they know the consequences. Chipenzi thinks that they will come back to abolish slavery of African leaders way they did for slave trade only, but maintained slavery, never. Please, read THE MAKING OF A SLAVE LETTER by William Lynch & wake…
Please, read THE MAKING OF A SLAVE LETTER by William Lynch & wake up from your sleep.
Please, read THE MAKING OF A SLAVE LETTER by Willie Lynch & wake up from your sleep.
Whats the president fearing. and he can’t compare developed nations governance to African countries. Europe and other developed democracies are decent, leaders even step down when pressured or when people lose confidence eg Ukraine. African leaders don’t do that, they begin to oppress dissenting views and punish those who disagree with them. So Zambia should remain in ICC no need to leave unless there is something the President is planning which would make him candidate for ICC
What we are saying is western governments never get called for prosecution. So Africa needs to pull out.
True JK, lungu should not even think of pulling our beautiful country out of that court unless he is afraid of something. Right now Lungu owns the courts, police and everything with zero accountability. Our constitution has been turned into a joke so where are we going to run to when Lungu start to abuse us, we need an external organization to keep these leaders in check otherwise we going to have a situation like Gambia
This is what I was expecting to hear from the The President. the why reasons.
Just to point out one of the reason we need to stay in ICC. “Judicial system in Zambia is compromised due to lack of separation of powers” Evan Daka.
I feel like this administration thinks me first, African leaders second and Zambian last when they come-up with statement like these on ICC.
“Move to pull Zambia out of the International Criminal Court (ICC) cannot be supported-Chipenzi”; This what I was expecting to hear from The President. the why reasons.
Just to point out one of the reasons we need to stay in ICC. “Judicial system in Zambia is compromised due to lack of separation of powers” Evan Daka.
I feel like this administration thinks. Me first, African leaders second, third PF and Zambian last when they come up with statement like these on ICC.
Look at the people around Chipenzi-all HH blind followers!!!who in Zambia today doesnt know how ICC have failed to prosecute George Bush and Ton Blair after causing Iraq war?the ICC is 100% pro western Govnts and only prosecute poor black leaders.is this an organazation a normal person should support?only upnd followers can!!!President Edgar Lungu must lead Zambia in pulling out of ICC as soon as possible!!never listen to upnd who oppose everything no matter how good!!upnd is full of finished politicians so simply ignore them!!!
When are we pulling out of the IMF and World Bank? We can’t allow these poor black leaders to be borrowing aimlessly and later starting asking for debt relief.
ngimbu and other pf zygotes if we can pull out of IMF, then pulling out of ICC will be a piece of cake too.
At the rate Zambian opposition leaders are moving,soon they will start opposing whenever a member of PF goes to toilet.if any upnd member hears that a PF member has left office going to the toilet,the following day you will hear their god hh addressing the media -saying PF is not working and only have time to go to toilet-this how bitter upnd members are!!!I REALLY HATE THIS TONGA PARTY CALLED UPND!!!ITS AN EVIL PARTY!!if the way upnd conduct politics is how democracy is,then democracy is a bad thing because our country is divided by the so called democracy!!
Njimbu don’t you have toilets at home for you to go to your office and starting shiiiting aimlessly? Definitely people will question your sanitary manners.
Today the opposition has nothing to do apart from scheming on how to grab power from PF on daily basis.is this all what democracy is all about?why cant you give space to elected people to Govnt and judge them after 5 yrs?there is too much pull him or her down sydrome in our country.if its not me then i must pull that person down-how?
Iwe living uko ku washington DC with corruption Zambian money? You PF cadres are doing nothing there in DC and are busy supporting useless Lungu. Time to chuck you outu.
If Edger Lungu is not planning Tyran of Zambians why does he want to pull out of the ICC? He plans on becoming a dictator as is his mentors Museveni and Mugabe. Wake up people.
President Lungu has not said that he wants Zambia to pull out of the ICC , he said he will consult ZAMBIANS and hear their view.. For me i think pulling out is better.. Lets make out own ICC court here in Africa.. The Headquaters can be in Bostwana a country with very little corruption or we can have it in South Africa. Why should Western countries be the ones to judge us.. Do we have any court in Africa that can Judge any of those Western country leaders yet we want them to judge us..
How come the United States ,China did not join ICC and recently even Russia decided to initiate a pull out process?
Is the ICC is a court for those less equal than others?
….I’m torn between the two opposite sides…..there is strong feeling that ICC is being managed/supervised by the west to deal with Africans…on the other hand if one is ‘clean’, no trace of blood on his hands or has no intention of committing atrocities, why get bothered with ICC…
I am not for or against, but why not continue with our own African Court which successfully prosecuted former Chandian president and is serving life in jail? Taylor is in prison in the UK but is able to organise his party for 2017 elections from jail.
Wouldn’t we not be amazed if I want to steal I call for the amendment/strike out of the piece of law in the penal code on theft being a felony. Why bother about ICC if you have not and/or do not intend to commit a crime. The argument being put on the table is that ICC only targets Africans, that’s not true! Remember Milosevic of Serbia is he also an African? There are many more butchers & criminals of leaders in the world that have been indicted by the ICC. However, even if it were only Africans, the question that will need to be asked, have those accused not committed crimes against humanity? Could it be that the majority are Africans due to bad and/or nonexistence of rule of law & strong judicial systems. Aren’t we Africans ashamed of ourselves to have in our midst uncouth leaders…
Lungu has already made a unilateral decision to pull Zambia out of ICC for his own personal and self saving interests. Like all Dictators and undemocratically elected leaders and in solidarity with his mentors ,Mu7 and Mugabe , Lungu is committed to quiting ICC urgently. Lungu has stolen Elections,committed crimes against Zambians and he is corrupt and fears to be prosecuted at the Hague. Lungu has committed crimes to Zambia similar to what Lorrent Gbagbo did in Ivory Coast. Lungu would not like to rot in ICC jails which is what Gbagbo is doing. Lungu has to be stopped b4 he plunges Zambia in further chaos.
Pulling out will jeopardize investigations into Hichilema’s instigated violence in Namwala after losing the last election. We are anxiously waiting for the arrest warrant from ICC
Why has the issue of pulling out of ICC by Zambia become thorny just after August general elections? It is because of the rigging of election results that caused panic to Edgar lungu and ECZ. Shame! Zambians are not ready to succumb to Edgar lungu ‘s wishes just because he wants to remain the president. Remember we had powerful and influential politicians like FTJ who had brought the issue of third term but Zambians did not succumb to his demands and he was defeated, now who are you and you don’t even have political influence that you want Zambia to pull out of ICC? You are wasting time! Useless president. Machende yako!
The ICC can never try leaders from Egypt, Saudi Arabia because these are strategic partners with the US. Yet they are among the worst abusers of human rights in the world.
The question is who is afraid of the ICC…..IS IT ONE MAN/WOMAN or 18 million zambians??????…if one man is scared of the ICC why should we debate…..
Good move Lungu, on this one I fully support you. Get out of ICC !
It has nothing to do with being afraid, Africa should learn to solve their own problems without depending on their colonial masters to make decisions for them. It just shows we are not competent to govern ourselves. So its a good move. GET OUT!
I totally agree with the first part of your thinking. However, Africa is faced with many economic problems, that should be our focus and not supporting the agendas of dictators.
Just think of it, how does pulling out of ICC benefit you and your children? Zero !! Don’t you think African countries would benefit if they focused on such programs that will create good environment for those bright heads that are scattered over the globe to come back to Africa?
The same intelligent people on this forum who are writing from foreign countries, imagine we all came back, don’t you think it will benefit Zambia more than debating ICC? WAKE UP
The suspension of ICC membership is intended to pave the way for improvement. The image of the African continent suffered at the hands of zealous agents of hegemony and piousness. Besides that, alternative institutions that penalize impunity are welcome. With or without ICC membership, African leaders are working relentlessly to promote and peace and prosperity. This is a chance in a life time. It is a fantasy to surrender jurisdiction in the hands of agents of questionable credentials.
Paul Kagame Of Rwanda Has immunised Himself from His Criminal Activities &Genocide In Rwanda By Pulling Rwanda Out Of ICC. So Now Paul Kagame Enjoys Killing Rwandan Citizens Limitlessly & WithOut Fear. Paul Kagame Has Made Killing Rwandans His Hobby.
Killing Centers: How Rwanda’s Paul Kagame Uses Diplomatic Embassies For Assassinations
Gen. Paul Kagame. His former ambassador to U.S. says he’s turned embassies into dens of criminal activity
President Paul Kagame’s 20 year reign of terror is characterized by a distorted and deceptive narrative that: he saved Tutsi from genocide perpetrated by Hutu; over- reliance on violence and war-making nationally and regionally; “Tutsi-fication” of the leadership of the military while eliminating real and potential competitors; transformation of the ruling RPF into a rubber stamp to enforce his will while eliminating real or perceived contenders to power; usurping legislative, executive and judiciary powers; closure of political space for political parties, civil society, independent media…
Why is Chipenzi surrounded by Upnd officials?
Leave this segregative s.tu.p.I.d group. When are we going to open our eye’s to see. I can see shaka time’s here
ARE THESE UPND THUGS BEING CALLED GOVERNANCE EXPERTS? MMMMH BA LT. BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR WANTON USAGE OF WORDS.