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I feel so hurt when I see this video and I’m reminded how the so called investors are stealing from us.Even worse are our leaders who are helping them steal by crying for “investors”.They make 10 times more than they put in….why why can someone tell me do we need them?#bringbackZCCM……..if we never sold by now we would own our mines and we would have made progress,even if it would have been hard but at least it would have been ours.
@Lindiwe you are right and I agree with you in the sense that if ZCCM in its former form had at least retained FULL operational capacity of some of the mines such as Roan, Nkana, Chambeshi and Konkola then we would be in a better position as far as jobs, infrastructure, housing, social and community responsibility for our citizens in the towns where those mines are is concerned. Now as it stands ZCCM IH (the successor of ZCCM) retains a 10 to 11 percent stake in all mines operating in the country so we should also be putting ZCCM IH (Govt) to task because these guys are getting hundreds of millions of dollars as shareholders to big mines such as FQM, KCM and Mopani. The argument these big mining firms have is they pay tax, they pay 10percent of all revenue to ZCCM IH why should they be…
Ctn… The argument these big mining firms have is they pay tax, they pay 10percent of all revenue to ZCCM IH so why should they be the ones to show social corporate responsibility? These are very complex issues and people at the top are benefiting which is a very sad state of affairs and a great betrayal to the Zambian people. Just yesterday we were reminded of the high cost of Cobalt at USD80,000/ton imagine the huge revenues that are being undeclared and possibly backdoor dealings taking place between these big Mining firms, ZCCM IH and even ZRA. At the end of the day the one to suffer is that poor girl child that is forced to sleep in a class room despite her parents paying the full amount for her school fees. No justice in this world!
At this point I really don’t care what argument these big rich mining companies have about Tax.The countries they acquire their wealth from are living in extremely bad conditions.They have no moral say in anything.They know they wouldn’t be super rich without our copper. As for ZCCM IH ,the only thing worse than a colonialist is the person who sells his own people to the colonialist. It’s the greed of a few africans that has contributed to our perpetual poverty and this pattern was seen even during slave trade( the one where they shipped africans in boats not the one now where they ship our resources in boats)
Though we refuse to admit it, ignorance is our story. Our poverty is home made. We can’t think.
Truth is ZRA and PF govt have no capacity to effectively tax the mines. If we had leadership in Edgar he would out source the skill. Zambia a is a very rich country where all people can have a decent life, we we don’t have is leadership
For first 28 yrs the KK govt never made any money in the mines or the country and it was broke things today are 100 better in the country thanks to investors, the problem is not all investors but the Chinese and certain politicians and govt workers. kick the Asians and Chinese out and most of the corruption will stop and Zambia can grow.
@2020vision. They don’t even pay taxes or dividends due to the government. Since they came, they have been declaring losses falsely so that they don’t pay taxes or dividends. If you remember last year when ECL met executives from Mopani copper Mines, they told him that they have never made any profit since coming to Zambia. This is how all of them are tricking the government so that they don’t pay taxes. I work for a mining company so I know what I am talking about. The only Copper mining company that pays taxes and dividends to the government is Kansanshi Mining I hear. Each financial year, they apparently make losses. Using transfer pricing, they make millions of dollars and later declare that they made zero profit.
The most annoying thing here is that we today have a government that has no ideas why it was elected.Today it is about chewing.You can imagine a president that can talk about “..ububomba mwibala..” what message is he sending to investors?Will they take ZRA seriously?But zoona ye but we are to blame people walked into ballot boxes with their eyes wide open and brought this on themselves
In the meantime our president continues campaigning like nothing is happeneing.Does he even know about this?Or maybe to him Mopani libala.
@Cosmos you are a b@sta
We forget that zccm is a shareholder in all the mines so we are being abused by our own.
We would not and will not progress until coruption is stamped out.
Poverty breeds corruption and corruption breeds poverty
I agree there are two evils the thief and the corrupt person helping the thief.
why are we good at crying, no one is stealing from Zambia, the biggest problem is the leadership, the people you vote for to be in power. These guns did not come with guns
@masalamuso ..I’ve found one of the people you described here…he must be getting a cut from the colonialist thats why he believes no one is stealing.
THE VOTES, YOU STEAL VOTES IN ORDER YO FILL YOUT POCKETS. WHO WOULD ALLOW THIS LOT ON FARE GROUND?
Same video 10 years on and nothing has changed…elect smart savvy leaders!!
Well you have a fraud convict as president who see fit to put his face on school books yet does not put books in libraries. And you hope he can do anything ? If anything Glencoe will just bribe him and his gang of thieves in statehouse if threatened.
You are screwd.
This is the same mopane that bribed lungu and pf with campain funds in 2015 at the heat of election campains to freeze the price of electricity tariffs for 40 years.
Yes laddies and gentlemen , we are screwd as a country for generations to come when clinging to power by thieves at the cost of the country is what we pay
God so blessed Africa with an abundance of ill-functioning brains, an ally in our holy endeavor to remain poor.
An average Zambian has little to no education, less informed and totally ignorant about reality.
That is the problem , an ignorant electorate who would even make a fraud convict as in lungu president.
Without proper and relentless activism such knowledge simply goes to waste.
Levy Mwanawasa’s death was probably orchestrated by these Mining Giants. He was at the brink of reversing the bad mining contracts
kindly ADVISE ME WHAT SHOULD OUR CURRENT LEADERSHIP DO FOR US TO HAVE MORE BENEFITS FROM THE MINES.bE MINDFUL THAT THESE OWNERS OF THE MINES COME WITHMONEY FROM THEIR SHAREHOLDERS WHO WANT TO THE VALUE OF THEIR IVESTIMENT APPRECIATE.SOME ARE RETIRIES AND IN ZAMBIA IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE CAPITAL SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO BULD AND RUN A MINE THE SIZE OF KALUMBILA. WE HAVE THE EDUCATION BUT LACK EXPERIENCES ANSD SOPHISCATION IN FINANCE AND ENGIEERING.WE ARE SIMPLY MORORNS.
@si,
The answer to your good question lies in what I have said @15. below
Africa is too poor and too ill-prepared to over-turn the evils of capitalism. Worse still, our leaders are too blind to see.
First off, no corporation works in a vacuum. It has to follow the laws and regulations of the nations it operates in. Said nation naturally is free to pass laws that make it easier or harder to do business in that nation for corporations no matter where they come from. It also has the responsibilities to check up and enforce their own laws and penalize those that act unlawful.
Any corporation exists first and foremost to do one thing: earn money. That is no more greedy than for a farmer to ask for as much payment for his wares as he can get and still sell them.
I also believe that the behaviour of a corporation in any given nation reflects how the officials act. Are most officials corrupt then it usually leads to corporations being forced to bribe those officials or hire someones…
…or hire someones cousin just to be able to actually do business in that nation. Corruption can be found in even the wealthiest of nations. So, it is not a case of black and white but of lighter or darker gray.
Is Africa poor? Yes and No. Yes, it is poor compared to the rest of the world. No, it isn’t because Europe took thousands of years to get from the conditions one can find in rural africa to where they are today. China or Japan have no less of a history. And both north america and south america as well as australia don’t count since they essentially got all their knowledge and technology from european settlers.
So, it is only a question of time. On the other hand, there are a lot of problems to be solved in africa. South Korea 50 years ago was as poor as the worst african…
Years after this video was first released, the silent but CLEAR MESSAGE it carries is still as valid as ever, if not more so now.
The message is this:- The future economic growth of our Country lies in primarily utilising our mineral and natural resources locally as raw materials to bring up all manner of secondary industries first. The exporting of raw materials should only be applicable to surplus to requirement.
The truth is that even if the Govt of the day had reacted responsibly, which they evidently did not, to the damning report by Grant Thornton about the wrong-doing and Tax-evasion of Glencore Plc, still, Zambia would NOT have had as much economic growth and job creation as it would have through secondary industries. i.e. thru value addition. This is a fact.
No…
…. No Country in the World has ever prospered by solely collecting Tax on its exported raw material, especially when that material is not a renewable asset.
So, in plain English, for those Pupils at Myooye Secondary School in Mumbwa district, who are sleeping on the floor in classrooms, to have a better chance of getting a job in future, manufacturing companies that use local raw materials must be encouraged to be stationed in Zambia.
Natural resources like copper can be used as levers to accelerate development and industrialization of a nation but it is wrong to focus on just that. Many of the wealthiest nations on earth have little to no resources. They have to import them. Yet they are still much better of than nations that do have those resources. How can that be?
A lot of people see big mining companies shipping of those non-renewable resources like copper and see it as a bad thing. Yet leaving it in the ground doesn’t do anyone any good. There are nations that make foreign investment nearly impossible.
Of course it would be even better to use all that copper at home to make stuff that can then be exported, making more money, jobs and industry beyond just mining. But that can not be developed quickly. That…
…that sort of thing takes decades to grow. And again, the money for that must come from somewhere and if it doesn’t come from outside Zambia… it won’t happen at all.
Sidenote: Anything like a character counter to see how much space one has left available perhaps?
@Martin,
LOL- I have also been bitten without warning before by ba LT’s character limiter, so I am now twice shy.
Now then, regarding the two points you have highlighted: –
1.) “Natural resources like copper can be used as levers to accelerate development and industrialization of a nation but it is wrong to focus on just that.”……..
Of course it would be wrong and self-limiting to focus on just that. I am just wondering what made you think anyone reckons self-limiting is a solution. I seem to remember back in the day it was Dr. Guy Scott, among others, who once rightly likened mineral recourses to grass / small twigs when starting a fire. You normally don’t say you’ve got a steady fire going and sit back and start cooking when it is only grass/small twigs (i.e. Copper) burning…
… (i.e. Copper) burning. Instead, you frantically do what it takes to use that fire to make the bigger logs (i.e. Agribusiness, manufacture, Aqua-business, etc … ) to start burning. Then you have a fire hot enough and steady enough to cook, warm etc.
2.) “….. jobs and industry beyond just mining. But that can not be developed quickly. That……that sort of thing takes decades to grow. And again, the money for that must come from somewhere…” …………
Zambia does not need to re-invent the wheel. e.g. Until recently, thru my work in the energy sector in UK, I have worked in villages, in towns and in cities alike in my region up to a radius of about 40 miles (60km) for about five years. One of the solutions I have seen to what you have raised is the fact that there are industrial sites…
… sites planted by local Govt even in villages, complete with 3 phase power. These buildings are for rent, short term and long term, by the local community and are of different sizes, configurations and layout. The effect of that in terms of value-addition is self-explanatory, to say nothing about urban decongestion. I am sure, many other Zambians can share first-hand experiences, and an ideal method of approach can be found. The angel is in the detail.
…as poor as the worst african nation. It was just split from North Korea, which was the cultural seat of the nation and contained all their resources and the best of their people. Today, South Korea rivals Europe despite the fact that the only resource they ever had was their people. Zambia has a lot more than South Korea ever had.
Another point, why are people so jealous of those big corporations? That video is heavily biased. Zambia does not have the money to invest in running a big mine. That takes hundreds of millions of USD (so billions of zambian kwacha). Zambia also does not have the human capital. It takes very specialized, educated people to work the machines. Argentina learned that the hard way when they scared away international investment and nationalized their biggest…
…nationalized their biggest energy firm. Zimbabwe had a similar lesson when they threw out their ‘white colonist’ farmers, from which Zambia certainly profited big time.
So, attract foreign investment, pass laws that allow corporations to make a profit in Zambia while enforcing fair taxes. Make laws that motivate those international corporations to invest in infrastructure and education so that as much money as possible flows into the country. How does Botswana do it with their diamond mining? They certainly seem to prosper.
BTW: Damn character limit! 🙁
Look no further than the quality of leadership we have compared to Botswana…..as a pointer to the quality of leadership he have in Zambia , the political advisor and close ally to the president , kaizer Zulu , in front of a packed international stadium full of international football guests assaulted a police women before the match began, right in front of every one , he decided to show his kungufu skills , ripping the uniform off the police woman and the so called president saw nothing wrong with that…..and that is the quality of leadership we have.
Mutati, Bantubonse and Francis Kaunda should be lynched
Yet Glencore is still in Zambia making huge profits. The same organization still involved in environmental pollution of fracking and dumping. Only in Africa that leaders are too chicken to go after these organizations. They wine and dine with them and turn a blind eye while fellow Zambians are dying.
I feel so hurt when I see this video and I’m reminded how the so called investors are stealing from us.Even worse are our leaders who are helping them steal by crying for “investors”.They make 10 times more than they put in….why why can someone tell me do we need them?#bringbackZCCM……..if we never sold by now we would own our mines and we would have made progress,even if it would have been hard but at least it would have been ours.
@Lindiwe you are right and I agree with you in the sense that if ZCCM in its former form had at least retained FULL operational capacity of some of the mines such as Roan, Nkana, Chambeshi and Konkola then we would be in a better position as far as jobs, infrastructure, housing, social and community responsibility for our citizens in the towns where those mines are is concerned. Now as it stands ZCCM IH (the successor of ZCCM) retains a 10 to 11 percent stake in all mines operating in the country so we should also be putting ZCCM IH (Govt) to task because these guys are getting hundreds of millions of dollars as shareholders to big mines such as FQM, KCM and Mopani. The argument these big mining firms have is they pay tax, they pay 10percent of all revenue to ZCCM IH why should they be…
Ctn… The argument these big mining firms have is they pay tax, they pay 10percent of all revenue to ZCCM IH so why should they be the ones to show social corporate responsibility? These are very complex issues and people at the top are benefiting which is a very sad state of affairs and a great betrayal to the Zambian people. Just yesterday we were reminded of the high cost of Cobalt at USD80,000/ton imagine the huge revenues that are being undeclared and possibly backdoor dealings taking place between these big Mining firms, ZCCM IH and even ZRA. At the end of the day the one to suffer is that poor girl child that is forced to sleep in a class room despite her parents paying the full amount for her school fees. No justice in this world!
At this point I really don’t care what argument these big rich mining companies have about Tax.The countries they acquire their wealth from are living in extremely bad conditions.They have no moral say in anything.They know they wouldn’t be super rich without our copper. As for ZCCM IH ,the only thing worse than a colonialist is the person who sells his own people to the colonialist. It’s the greed of a few africans that has contributed to our perpetual poverty and this pattern was seen even during slave trade( the one where they shipped africans in boats not the one now where they ship our resources in boats)
Though we refuse to admit it, ignorance is our story. Our poverty is home made. We can’t think.
Truth is ZRA and PF govt have no capacity to effectively tax the mines. If we had leadership in Edgar he would out source the skill. Zambia a is a very rich country where all people can have a decent life, we we don’t have is leadership
For first 28 yrs the KK govt never made any money in the mines or the country and it was broke things today are 100 better in the country thanks to investors, the problem is not all investors but the Chinese and certain politicians and govt workers. kick the Asians and Chinese out and most of the corruption will stop and Zambia can grow.
@2020vision. They don’t even pay taxes or dividends due to the government. Since they came, they have been declaring losses falsely so that they don’t pay taxes or dividends. If you remember last year when ECL met executives from Mopani copper Mines, they told him that they have never made any profit since coming to Zambia. This is how all of them are tricking the government so that they don’t pay taxes. I work for a mining company so I know what I am talking about. The only Copper mining company that pays taxes and dividends to the government is Kansanshi Mining I hear. Each financial year, they apparently make losses. Using transfer pricing, they make millions of dollars and later declare that they made zero profit.
The most annoying thing here is that we today have a government that has no ideas why it was elected.Today it is about chewing.You can imagine a president that can talk about “..ububomba mwibala..” what message is he sending to investors?Will they take ZRA seriously?But zoona ye but we are to blame people walked into ballot boxes with their eyes wide open and brought this on themselves
In the meantime our president continues campaigning like nothing is happeneing.Does he even know about this?Or maybe to him Mopani libala.
@Cosmos you are a b@sta
We forget that zccm is a shareholder in all the mines so we are being abused by our own.
We would not and will not progress until coruption is stamped out.
Poverty breeds corruption and corruption breeds poverty
I agree there are two evils the thief and the corrupt person helping the thief.
why are we good at crying, no one is stealing from Zambia, the biggest problem is the leadership, the people you vote for to be in power. These guns did not come with guns
@masalamuso ..I’ve found one of the people you described here…he must be getting a cut from the colonialist thats why he believes no one is stealing.
THE VOTES, YOU STEAL VOTES IN ORDER YO FILL YOUT POCKETS. WHO WOULD ALLOW THIS LOT ON FARE GROUND?
Same video 10 years on and nothing has changed…elect smart savvy leaders!!
Well you have a fraud convict as president who see fit to put his face on school books yet does not put books in libraries. And you hope he can do anything ? If anything Glencoe will just bribe him and his gang of thieves in statehouse if threatened.
You are screwd.
This is the same mopane that bribed lungu and pf with campain funds in 2015 at the heat of election campains to freeze the price of electricity tariffs for 40 years.
Yes laddies and gentlemen , we are screwd as a country for generations to come when clinging to power by thieves at the cost of the country is what we pay
God so blessed Africa with an abundance of ill-functioning brains, an ally in our holy endeavor to remain poor.
An average Zambian has little to no education, less informed and totally ignorant about reality.
That is the problem , an ignorant electorate who would even make a fraud convict as in lungu president.
Without proper and relentless activism such knowledge simply goes to waste.
Levy Mwanawasa’s death was probably orchestrated by these Mining Giants. He was at the brink of reversing the bad mining contracts
kindly ADVISE ME WHAT SHOULD OUR CURRENT LEADERSHIP DO FOR US TO HAVE MORE BENEFITS FROM THE MINES.bE MINDFUL THAT THESE OWNERS OF THE MINES COME WITHMONEY FROM THEIR SHAREHOLDERS WHO WANT TO THE VALUE OF THEIR IVESTIMENT APPRECIATE.SOME ARE RETIRIES AND IN ZAMBIA IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO RISE CAPITAL SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO BULD AND RUN A MINE THE SIZE OF KALUMBILA. WE HAVE THE EDUCATION BUT LACK EXPERIENCES ANSD SOPHISCATION IN FINANCE AND ENGIEERING.WE ARE SIMPLY MORORNS.
@si,
The answer to your good question lies in what I have said @15. below
Africa is too poor and too ill-prepared to over-turn the evils of capitalism. Worse still, our leaders are too blind to see.
First off, no corporation works in a vacuum. It has to follow the laws and regulations of the nations it operates in. Said nation naturally is free to pass laws that make it easier or harder to do business in that nation for corporations no matter where they come from. It also has the responsibilities to check up and enforce their own laws and penalize those that act unlawful.
Any corporation exists first and foremost to do one thing: earn money. That is no more greedy than for a farmer to ask for as much payment for his wares as he can get and still sell them.
I also believe that the behaviour of a corporation in any given nation reflects how the officials act. Are most officials corrupt then it usually leads to corporations being forced to bribe those officials or hire someones…
…or hire someones cousin just to be able to actually do business in that nation. Corruption can be found in even the wealthiest of nations. So, it is not a case of black and white but of lighter or darker gray.
Is Africa poor? Yes and No. Yes, it is poor compared to the rest of the world. No, it isn’t because Europe took thousands of years to get from the conditions one can find in rural africa to where they are today. China or Japan have no less of a history. And both north america and south america as well as australia don’t count since they essentially got all their knowledge and technology from european settlers.
So, it is only a question of time. On the other hand, there are a lot of problems to be solved in africa. South Korea 50 years ago was as poor as the worst african…
Years after this video was first released, the silent but CLEAR MESSAGE it carries is still as valid as ever, if not more so now.
The message is this:- The future economic growth of our Country lies in primarily utilising our mineral and natural resources locally as raw materials to bring up all manner of secondary industries first. The exporting of raw materials should only be applicable to surplus to requirement.
The truth is that even if the Govt of the day had reacted responsibly, which they evidently did not, to the damning report by Grant Thornton about the wrong-doing and Tax-evasion of Glencore Plc, still, Zambia would NOT have had as much economic growth and job creation as it would have through secondary industries. i.e. thru value addition. This is a fact.
No…
…. No Country in the World has ever prospered by solely collecting Tax on its exported raw material, especially when that material is not a renewable asset.
So, in plain English, for those Pupils at Myooye Secondary School in Mumbwa district, who are sleeping on the floor in classrooms, to have a better chance of getting a job in future, manufacturing companies that use local raw materials must be encouraged to be stationed in Zambia.
Natural resources like copper can be used as levers to accelerate development and industrialization of a nation but it is wrong to focus on just that. Many of the wealthiest nations on earth have little to no resources. They have to import them. Yet they are still much better of than nations that do have those resources. How can that be?
A lot of people see big mining companies shipping of those non-renewable resources like copper and see it as a bad thing. Yet leaving it in the ground doesn’t do anyone any good. There are nations that make foreign investment nearly impossible.
Of course it would be even better to use all that copper at home to make stuff that can then be exported, making more money, jobs and industry beyond just mining. But that can not be developed quickly. That…
…that sort of thing takes decades to grow. And again, the money for that must come from somewhere and if it doesn’t come from outside Zambia… it won’t happen at all.
Sidenote: Anything like a character counter to see how much space one has left available perhaps?
@Martin,
LOL- I have also been bitten without warning before by ba LT’s character limiter, so I am now twice shy.
Now then, regarding the two points you have highlighted: –
1.) “Natural resources like copper can be used as levers to accelerate development and industrialization of a nation but it is wrong to focus on just that.”……..
Of course it would be wrong and self-limiting to focus on just that. I am just wondering what made you think anyone reckons self-limiting is a solution. I seem to remember back in the day it was Dr. Guy Scott, among others, who once rightly likened mineral recourses to grass / small twigs when starting a fire. You normally don’t say you’ve got a steady fire going and sit back and start cooking when it is only grass/small twigs (i.e. Copper) burning…
… (i.e. Copper) burning. Instead, you frantically do what it takes to use that fire to make the bigger logs (i.e. Agribusiness, manufacture, Aqua-business, etc … ) to start burning. Then you have a fire hot enough and steady enough to cook, warm etc.
2.) “….. jobs and industry beyond just mining. But that can not be developed quickly. That……that sort of thing takes decades to grow. And again, the money for that must come from somewhere…” …………
Zambia does not need to re-invent the wheel. e.g. Until recently, thru my work in the energy sector in UK, I have worked in villages, in towns and in cities alike in my region up to a radius of about 40 miles (60km) for about five years. One of the solutions I have seen to what you have raised is the fact that there are industrial sites…
… sites planted by local Govt even in villages, complete with 3 phase power. These buildings are for rent, short term and long term, by the local community and are of different sizes, configurations and layout. The effect of that in terms of value-addition is self-explanatory, to say nothing about urban decongestion. I am sure, many other Zambians can share first-hand experiences, and an ideal method of approach can be found. The angel is in the detail.
…as poor as the worst african nation. It was just split from North Korea, which was the cultural seat of the nation and contained all their resources and the best of their people. Today, South Korea rivals Europe despite the fact that the only resource they ever had was their people. Zambia has a lot more than South Korea ever had.
Another point, why are people so jealous of those big corporations? That video is heavily biased. Zambia does not have the money to invest in running a big mine. That takes hundreds of millions of USD (so billions of zambian kwacha). Zambia also does not have the human capital. It takes very specialized, educated people to work the machines. Argentina learned that the hard way when they scared away international investment and nationalized their biggest…
…nationalized their biggest energy firm. Zimbabwe had a similar lesson when they threw out their ‘white colonist’ farmers, from which Zambia certainly profited big time.
So, attract foreign investment, pass laws that allow corporations to make a profit in Zambia while enforcing fair taxes. Make laws that motivate those international corporations to invest in infrastructure and education so that as much money as possible flows into the country. How does Botswana do it with their diamond mining? They certainly seem to prosper.
BTW: Damn character limit! 🙁
Look no further than the quality of leadership we have compared to Botswana…..as a pointer to the quality of leadership he have in Zambia , the political advisor and close ally to the president , kaizer Zulu , in front of a packed international stadium full of international football guests assaulted a police women before the match began, right in front of every one , he decided to show his kungufu skills , ripping the uniform off the police woman and the so called president saw nothing wrong with that…..and that is the quality of leadership we have.
Mutati, Bantubonse and Francis Kaunda should be lynched
Yet Glencore is still in Zambia making huge profits. The same organization still involved in environmental pollution of fracking and dumping. Only in Africa that leaders are too chicken to go after these organizations. They wine and dine with them and turn a blind eye while fellow Zambians are dying.